+1 on this.

I’ve spent 3 months concentrating on this and dropped 16 secs from my 400scm time. Still a work in progress but it’s definitely helped me break through a plateau.

So count the strokes and aim for N-1+1? Basically aim for the same number of strokes each lap? Got it. Thanks!



/s

Learn to swim different paces, and get a feel for that sweet spot just below the point where trying to go faster becomes more "thrashy" and less smooth. I also think it's incentive to go harder, and my general impression is that a lot of triathletes don't swim hard enough to get faster.

Over time I think it helps develop more discipline swimming easier as well. I.e., if you're paying attention to what faster swimming feels like, it's easier to carry that over into easier swimming. I learned that "easy" doesn't have to be "slow," if I avoid getting floppy in the water, keep my body taut, hand/wrist firm, etc.

When I dedicated myself to improving my swim last year, I felt like it was the biggest bang for my buck (besides volume). Obviously impossible to know.

The quality of swimming is a critical component, and it seems to be more important in the water as compared to the other disciplines.

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http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

Nice.

Considering the how easy it is to implement and it can be applied to every situation, counting strokes is a huge one for me. I think it's as important knowing how fast you're swimming.

Even if you don't actively try to change the number, simply being aware of it promotes positive change.

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http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

As you note, many issues are often caused by something else somewhere in the stroke. What happens before the hand hits the water can mess up what happens in the water.

As you also note, it's tough to change more than one thing at a time. That's why it's critical to know what's causing what or you end up not getting anywhere.

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http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

Agreed. Knowing how fast you are swimming will let you know the impact of what you're doing. You learn a lot by happenstance when you're getting constant feedback about how fast you're going.

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http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

Thanks. That's been my experience as well.

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http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

Swim like a swimmer - go slow for warmup, feel the water through play, etc.


And swim more.

https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html

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I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html

Volume, quality sets, OWS, frequency... everything comes after GOOD FORM. If you don't have a good form, you are wasting your time. If you think you got the form down, then you can swim more and practice more, but if not, you must get outside assistance and improve your form.

“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”

It's good to check your form with coaches, experts and real swimmers.

For several months last year, I had a weekly set that alternated between 25x100 and 50x50 with 10 seconds rest.

I dreaded it and got so bored of it. It was also the best I ever swam.

I don't know the person you have hired but I agree with you that see yourself swimming allows you to correct many things. If you also hire a coach that can help you out in the process

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https://www.lupoacademy.it

https://www.instagram.com/lupo_academy/

My tip is specific to my triathlon experience: rather than trying to become a faster swimmer, I switched to trying to become more relaxed and economical at the same speeds, especially in open water at Ironman distances. Adding extended intervals, focusing on calmness and low heart rate while maintaining forward progress, lots of open-water swimming (if you're training for IM) in similar conditions and at the sort of pace and cadence you expect for race day.

It is the OP

https://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/about

I will have a look at his website - thanks for that. Always good to know what other people do. I haven't been here for ages to be honest. I moved to Italy at the moment and no longer in London.

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https://www.lupoacademy.it

https://www.instagram.com/lupo_academy/

Every late (adult) swimmer has one problem.
Lack of swim specific muscle.
Get some.

I think we adult onsite swimmers have another problem, just like novice people at yoga. We can't actually morph our bodies with enough suppleness coupled with power at the same time to shape ourselves like a speed boat hull with high propulsion at the same time. The only way to go there, is swim a lot of miles, and most adult onset swimmers cannot.

When people talk about "feel of water", most of it is actually not feel to get enough propulsion. the feel is to get the body in the right shape and orientation while applying force. If you watch a deer in water this is like most adult onset swimmers. They don't have the suppleness of a fish. Interstingly the Penguin which is pathetic on land is a torpedo in the water and can out do any deer in the water. Most NFL wide receivers would likely have a hard time in the water, even though the typical height and weight would be favourable to being a good swimmers being between 6 feet and 6'6" and 200 lbs. But some of these guys if they had enough pool time would be good swimmers. They likely don't have the same suppleness as Lochte or Phelps.

I agree with you, with a caveat.

Adult learners almost never relax in the water. They place their hands and arms carefully in the most correct way, and they breath without relaxing while attempting to maintain the stroke. If there is one thing you can see it's their lack of relaxation.

Suppleness is a big part of that, however I'm as supple a brick these days, but I can still swim. My last race wasn't appreciably slower than I was fifteen years ago, because I am still relaxed in the water and can apply what strength I have. efficiently.

Children learn to relax once they have confidence and they never lose that no matter how badly (in my case) they train. That relaxation overcomes a ton of non standard strokes. When you watch a 100m or 200m race there's eight swimmers in the water and often eight styles, but they are all comfortable and relaxed in that style and can apply the strength they have, completely.

As others have said....SWIM OFTEN. (I think 6 weekly sessions of 2km totals is much better than 3 weekly sessions of 4km totals, even for you Ironperson Triathlonetes.)

(Also: Set a specific/meaningful swimming goal.)

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I only swim.
I used to run. (31:09 10k)
I never did Triathlon.
Sue me.

Watching hundreds of "efforless swimming" youtube videos by Coach Brenton
Videorecording myself swimming
Implementing advices given by coach Brenton.

Is there anything you'd suggest in particular beyond swimming?

One of the challenges is that there is nothing else in life like swimming, so if you're not swimming, you're not really using your body in a way that's going to condition the body to do so. While certain activities can help the process, you have to be in the water.

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http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

Most people think feel for the water is about propulsion. Feel for the water is about learning to shape your body in a way that reduces resistance in the water.

I've seen some VERY fast swimmers that were experts in the latter, much more so than the former.

Both are better, but positioning is more important.

Some of this is structural (bones), some it can be improved with appropriate strength and mobility work, and some of it is a skill in learning how to manipulate what you got.

Great insight.

I would only say that these skills can be improved, and it doesn't necessarily take a ton of mileage.

Andrew

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http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

Great stuff.

If you can't establish comfort and relaxation in the water first, you will be using your arms and legs to create added stability. If you are using your limbs for stability, you CAN'T use them to create propulsion.

Many adults try to learn the mechanics of freestyle without getting comfort first. It never really works unless some swims a lot and eventually figures it out.

Kids intuitively learn to relax FIRST, and then they figure out the strokes later.

That dynamic is a huge part of 'adult-onset swimming'.

Relaxation/comfort is the key skill that underlies all effective swimming.

Andrew

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http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

Is there any competitive swimmer who swims less than 15hours/week...?
Most adult who want to improve their swimming abilities forget that they try to compare themselves with other adults who've got way more swimming mileage under their belt than them....funny enough, they wouldn't dare compare themselves with basketball or football varsity players (let alone pros), so why make the comparison with former competitive swimmers...??

Get 10 000 hours in the pool, and then we talk about if you're made for swimming or not...

  




I actually think the bigger limiter is that people forget or ignore the fact that ex-competitive swimmers who swam from youth are literally the most talented of the kids for swimming. You don't stick with swimming going every morning for years, dragging your parents, when you're not naturally good, if not exceptionally good, at it.

Adult triathletes are typically the rest of that less-talented pack. There are definitely some who would have been in that fast kid group, and guess what - they improve very quickly as an adult. But most of us are not in that group.

You also don't need 10000 hours or close to that to realize you're not that talented. You can tell pretty quickly by how much you improve compared ot the typical AG triathlete doing similar volume training, even if it's low. If you're swimming like 4 hrs a week for 2 years and still dead MOP for a triathlete swim split, you're unlikely going to be beating the ex-competitive (fast) swimmers even at 8 hrs a week or even 10 hrs a week of training, unless that ex-comp swimmer literally stops swimming completely for years.

This is the real dirty secret behind swimming 'fast', like as fast as true competitive swimmers, even youth swimmers. And all triathlon coaches, even the elite ones know this - it's well known to them that swim improvement is the hardest thing for their pro-elites to get unless they came with it already.

Luckily for us non pro-elites though, FOP swimming (let's just say top 15%) at the AG level isn't a particularly high bar, and probably within the reach of a very hardworking typical AG talent triathlete who just does a ton of training. But that 'FOP' AGer will get beaten by a huge margin by the 'real' swimmers, even of those guys/gals are swimming a mere 7k per week. My n=1 analogy for running, as that you can bust your tail and get down to an 19:00 5k but the naturally fast guy will be running 15:00 with similar training, or 17:00 with low-level training. And yes, I know swimming requires technique and running doesn't blah blah blah - I'm assuming you can swim decently well for the analogy, not a raw beginner with giant stroke errors who will improve quickly once those are fixed.