I'm not so sure that is saying the school district admits to discriminatory hiring practices or that they are just referring to past discrimination in society general? They very well may have been but it's been illegal to discriminate based on race in hiring since 1964, so getting close to 60 years ago.

Which would be a reason to put a policy like this in place. Make this concession or be sued.

Yes, I am making assumptions. As is everyone because the articles are meant to enrage. This contract was collectively bargained, presumably with white people in the union as well. There had to be a reason for them to ratify it. Unless the union was suddenly made up with minority teachers being in the majority there had to be a reason the white teachers went along with it too.

We aren't getting that explanation because the people putting this out there want Windy to be mad.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I don't know how the hired teachers would know if discrimination took place? At least when I was on the school board, it was us and the Superintendent who did the hiring. They would need access to the applicant records over the years to know, correct?

That is pretty much always the case with discriminatory hiring practices. And that is why they are hard to prove. It is really really hard, short of a lawsuit with discovery, to know who was in the applicant pool. I just went out to my old high school. They have one hispanic teacher (ETA - I just noticed she teaches Spanish, which made me laugh but I am not sure why) out of around 25 or 30 staff. I'm not sure they have ever had an African American teacher. But given the location and the demographics of the area I wouldn't be surprised if there has never been an African American applicant. So no minority teachers isn't proof of discrimination by itself. But at some point you need to look at how they are recruiting too. Only posting jobs in Blonde Scandinavians Weekly would be an issue for instance.

But in a large school district looking around the staff room would be a good start.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

“Yes, I am making assumptions. As is everyone because the articles are meant to enrage. This contract was collectively bargained, presumably with white people in the union as well. There had to be a reason for them to ratify it.”

Two quick points.

One, the article appeared to be produced by a mainstream local network news site, though I’ll admit I didn’t scrutinize very closely. It did not appear to sensationalize, though it was thin on context (reference the article I posted in my first response).

Two, I don’t know the legal implications of a collective bargaining agreement that implements race based policies like this. I can see the district getting sued to high heaven if it were not a collectively agreed upon policy, but I don’t know if that in and of itself obviates the possibility of disgruntled union members taking it to court. My assumption in general is that state or federal law supersedes these agreements if a dispute is brought to the court, but again, not my wheelhouse.

I do understand the rationale behind it and I assume good intentions. I hate that it sorts out by race and not merit, but then I also hate our long established history of the same calculus being used to keep African Americans out of the education workforce.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

"I hate that it sorts out by race and not merit, but then I also hate our long established history of the same calculus being used to keep African Americans out of the education workforce."

This is pretty much exactly where I am.

As well as bieng right there with you wanting more context and information.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

If I remember the text correctly, they've collectively agreed that in the event of a layoff, working from least to most experienced, they would retain the minority teacher and lay off the next non-minority teacher instead. I don't know how that plays out if the next five in line are minorities as well.

I assume all teachers are considered to be competent with satisfactory performance evaluations, so merit doesn't really play a factor.

If meeting the needs of students is the primary goal, then how is time in the system assumed to be the primary consideration? The collective agreement certainly changes the status quo in that regard. I think we need to temper that reflex somewhat and think about what's best for the students, not what's best for the teachers, or white educators.

I'm not saying that is the correct answer, I'm saying I'm willing to examine the problem through a different lens, one that prioritizes students over employees. And in that paradigm, I understand the decision.

Is it unfair to white educators with equally good performance reviews and history of service? Yes. Should that be the determinant? I don't know. Possibly not.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

I will find it incredibly funny if the organization teachers have created to protect them no matter what turns on them.

I hope every teachers union in the country implements this.

Employers have some room to use affirmative action to remedy prior discrimination. And, that’s what they’re saying here: the most senior people were hired at a time of racial discrimination. But, this agreement looks way too blunt to survive a lawsuit. There might be nuanced ways to consider whether an employee was once the beneficiary of discrimination, but this agreement does not even try to be nuanced about it.

Might say more about your school district and students, than UCLA or UC Irvine selection process. Was her ACT score 30 or higher? How many extra circulars did she do? and on and on and on

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

so here is the line in the contract

However, in the case that a teacher is “a member of a population underrepresented among licensed teachers in the District,” the district may “excess,” meaning lay off or relocate, “outside of seniority order.”

What I want to know is does the contract describe population description. I mean you could argue that white males between 5'2" and 5'3" with red hair is an underrepresented population.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Wouldn't they have to demonstrate that prior discrimination in court with some sort of data if an employee sued them? Even the oldest employees were almost certainly hired after the Civil Rights Act.

Not able to lift the hood, but comfortable enough to blame your daughter’s denials on blonde hair, blue eyes, and a Scandinavian last name? That’s a bold strategy, Cotton.

We should not temper the reflex so much that we violate the Constitutional rights of white educators. It's great to seek the best outcome for the students, but we do so within the left and right boundaries of our guiding legal documents.

You don't fix racial discrimination by applying more racial discrimination.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Not blaming, observing and commenting, yes.
I'm certain that their are reason(s) why, but find it odd that she had classmates with weaker CV and did get accepted.
I haven't the wherewithal to examine what really goes on in the admissions department, do you?
All said and done, it will work out great.
Nothing too bold, really. But thanks.

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I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

Asians are "white" for college admissions purposes

I always knew teachers' unions were out to get me

UC schools aren't doing standardized tests these days (and a 30? Puh-lease)

Good questions, ACT and SAT are no longer used. Class rank is a big driver, grades, etc. To be fair, Covid has created a significant backlog of students now wanting to enter into various colleges; so, the pool (at least for some schools) is quite large. They have to limit the numbers of freshman more than a "normal" year. She's not the only kid with a strong CV that's frustrated, that's for sure.

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I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

Did any blonde hair, blue eyes, Scandinavian women get accepted?

But good for her to take the CC route with a positive attitude. I had quite a few students who went that route and with an aggressive attitude they seemed to do better than some of the students who simply fell into a 4-year college.

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"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

It actually doesn’t take that much effort. If you do a little bit bit of research you’ll find that race does not factor into California state school admissions. You will also find that income does.

Yes. They would not need to prove that a specific white teacher was hired due to racial discrimination back in the day, but they would need to prove that there was fairly pervasive discrimination back then.

They collude with Binny's to make you drink more.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Does she row by any chance? There may be an opening on the team.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.