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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [apmoss] [ In reply to ]
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apmoss wrote:
RandMart wrote:

We are all honest people here [except those with double letters in their user names, who are considered suspect]


bu rr ito
o ff al

Cheapeau. I lol'ed.
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [Durhamskier] [ In reply to ]
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Durhamskier wrote:
apmoss wrote:
RandMart wrote:

We are all honest people here [except those with double letters in their user names, who are considered suspect]


bu rr ito
o ff al


Cheapeau. I lol'ed.

Of course, we know apmoss has no credibility

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [mbeaugard] [ In reply to ]
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I hadn't thought about the blood transfusion thing. I thought that they could detect that now?

Anyhow, I had to ask myself, how stupid would you have to be to get caught? We know she took a pill. We know that pill is only detectable for like 24 hours in a test. So why answer the door at 6-8am when the testers knock if you took the pill the day before? Why NOT just take a whereabouts failure (unless this would take her to 3 missed tests and trigger a suspension)?

Unless she:

1. took the pill well outside the 24 hour buffer, and assumed if would not be detected
2. passed previous tests while "glowing"
3. previous positives were protected by USADA / Nike (conspiracy theory ala Lance and the UCI)
4. could not take another whereabouts failure / roommate opened door to testers and she couldn't escape (meaning she had gone rogue and was doping behind BTCs back)
5. she had no idea she consumed any Nand

I have so many questions LOL!
Last edited by: hbog12: Jun 16, 21 8:46
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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All I know is that I live in Beaverton and I'm getting BURRITOS this weekend!
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [flowersofmoss] [ In reply to ]
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flowersofmoss wrote:
All I know is that I live in Beaverton and I'm getting BURRITOS this weekend!

Need to do a 1500m before and after.
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [kiwi.] [ In reply to ]
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kiwi. wrote:

Who gets a receipt from a food truck? Almost makes it less credible....

I'd guess it's simply a credit card statement showing the charge.
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [mbeaugard] [ In reply to ]
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mbeaugard wrote:
flowersofmoss wrote:
All I know is that I live in Beaverton and I'm getting BURRITOS this weekend!


Need to do a 1500m before and after.

Not too soon after though, things could get messy.

--------------------------
The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [kiwi.] [ In reply to ]
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I saw the "receipt from a food truck" excuse as well. I don't have the receipt from a nice restaurant my wife and I went to the other day (they are finally open where I live for patio dining!) so the fact that she goes and keeps one from a food truck certainly indicates to me that she was planning for this type of defense just in case she got caught .....
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [Allan] [ In reply to ]
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Never realized olympic level athletes were eating burritos from food trucks. New high performance diet??
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [Allan] [ In reply to ]
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Allan wrote:
I saw the "receipt from a food truck" excuse as well. I don't have the receipt from a nice restaurant my wife and I went to the other day (they are finally open where I live for patio dining!) so the fact that she goes and keeps one from a food truck certainly indicates to me that she was planning for this type of defense just in case she got caught .....

honestly, i think this is a dead end you guys are pursuing. there's plenty of room for skepticism here, but a lunch receipt ain't it.

say she paid with her credit or debit card, and now she's got a line item on her statement. or she paid with her phone and has an electronic receipt. or not - she paid cash and kept the receipt because she's a methodical person or wants to claim it on her taxes or whatever.

really, i just don't think this is the right line of attack.

____________________________________
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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iron_mike wrote:
Allan wrote:
I saw the "receipt from a food truck" excuse as well. I don't have the receipt from a nice restaurant my wife and I went to the other day (they are finally open where I live for patio dining!) so the fact that she goes and keeps one from a food truck certainly indicates to me that she was planning for this type of defense just in case she got caught .....


honestly, i think this is a dead end you guys are pursuing. there's plenty of room for skepticism here, but a lunch receipt ain't it.

say she paid with her credit or debit card, and now she's got a line item on her statement. or she paid with her phone and has an electronic receipt. or not - she paid cash and kept the receipt because she's a methodical person or wants to claim it on her taxes or whatever.

really, i just don't think this is the right line of attack.

Food truck server asks "You want a receipt?"
Not paying much attention, SH instinctively says "Yeah, sure"


< throws it in the handbag/car/wherever >

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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RandMart wrote:
iron_mike wrote:
Allan wrote:
I saw the "receipt from a food truck" excuse as well. I don't have the receipt from a nice restaurant my wife and I went to the other day (they are finally open where I live for patio dining!) so the fact that she goes and keeps one from a food truck certainly indicates to me that she was planning for this type of defense just in case she got caught .....


honestly, i think this is a dead end you guys are pursuing. there's plenty of room for skepticism here, but a lunch receipt ain't it.

say she paid with her credit or debit card, and now she's got a line item on her statement. or she paid with her phone and has an electronic receipt. or not - she paid cash and kept the receipt because she's a methodical person or wants to claim it on her taxes or whatever.

really, i just don't think this is the right line of attack.


Food truck server asks "You want a receipt?"
Not paying much attention, SH instinctively says "Yeah, sure"


< throws it in the handbag/car/wherever >

If athletes can expense food, you bet your arse she is asking for a receipt.
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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sure it is. it is all part of the ruse she is trying to pull. whether you do or don't think it matters, it all will come out in the wash when the decision is released. my guess is that her facts are going to be embarrassingly bad, and ones of someone who has no good defense, but there's no point speculating because we all will learn in due time what evidence she presented. if you take a step back, this all is sounding more and more ridiculous -- she claims to have decided to order a carne asada burrito from a mobile food truck, which usually is dry, but it came out greasy and smelling different and she decided to eat it anyway and pocket the $8 receipt as well (and, no, burrito dinners are not deductible).
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [hbog12] [ In reply to ]
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hbog12 wrote:
I hadn't thought about the blood transfusion thing. I thought that they could detect that now?

Anyhow, I had to ask myself, how stupid would you have to be to get caught? We know she took a pill. We know that pill is only detectable for like 24 hours in a test. So why answer the door at 6-8am when the testers knock if you took the pill the day before? Why NOT just take a whereabouts failure (unless this would take her to 3 missed tests and trigger a suspension)?

Unless she:

1. took the pill well outside the 24 hour buffer, and assumed if would not be detected
2. passed previous tests while "glowing"
3. previous positives were protected by USADA / Nike (conspiracy theory ala Lance and the UCI)
4. could not take another whereabouts failure / roommate opened door to testers and she couldn't escape (meaning she had gone rogue and was doping behind BTCs back)
5. she had no idea she consumed any Nand

I have so many questions LOL!

I still don't understand why/motivation from my limited research yesterday. Apparently the only useful form of Nand is injectable. Oral consumption won't get you any benefits because the half-life is way way too short.


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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [hbog12] [ In reply to ]
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hbog12 wrote:
I hadn't thought about the blood transfusion thing. I thought that they could detect that now?

I don't think so. I've heard about autologous transfusion detection being imminent for about a decade now. But I'm not aware that it's directly detectable yet. Though it can be indirectly suggested by plasticizer detection or bio passport anomalies. I'm guessing it's not that hard to get around the plasticizer detection.
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Just trying to wrap my head around the entire MO and give some benefit of the doubt. Because it seems so obvious from way out here.

I wonder how many elite athletes just self rationalize and minimize. They don't necessarily think I am going to use THIS substance to give me the last little edge. Instead, thinking diet/nutrition and "supplements" are an integral part of training, which then clouds their judegement into believing they are simply building an optimal regimen. And when they get popped and realize the consequence (which they should have been fully aware of all along), then it is graps at straws time.

Doesn't make it acceptable, just less nefarious.
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [WannaB] [ In reply to ]
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WannaB wrote:
Just trying to wrap my head around the entire MO and give some benefit of the doubt. Because it seems so obvious from way out here.

I wonder how many elite athletes just self rationalize and minimize. They don't necessarily think I am going to use THIS substance to give me the last little edge. Instead, thinking diet/nutrition and "supplements" are an integral part of training, which then clouds their judegement into believing they are simply building an optimal regimen. And when they get popped and realize the consequence (which they should have been fully aware of all along), then it is graps at straws time.

Doesn't make it acceptable, just less nefarious.

I don't necessarily disagree with your point but most athletic federations and athletes at the highest level and almost for certain Olympic candidates get some sort of backgrounder if not out and out training from their federation with respect to supplements what to use what not etc. It is inconceivable that someone who is her age and experience at her level could play the I didn't know card. Also all athletic federations and anti doping associations make it abundantly clear that the athlete is responsible for what they put into their body, ignorance is not a defence. That is the price of admission.
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [trail] [ In reply to ]
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I was aware they could detect tranfusions due to anomalies in the bio passport. Which then begs the question why get a blood transfusion IN THE MIDDLE OF DECEMBER when you have no races in the coming weeks?

Look man, I read Tyler's book so I'm sort of an expert on this doping thing (pink font), and it seems like the blood bag thing only benefits right before or during a very hard competition. Not in the middle of the an off season and 10 days before Christmas.

I dunno. None of it makes any sense.
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [hbog12] [ In reply to ]
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hbog12 wrote:

I dunno. None of it makes any sense.


Yeah, I don't know. But it's not really our job to make a story that makes sense. It was her job to provide an explanation. And she didn't provide a very satisfying one. On several fronts.

I'd be a lot more sympathetic if she'd just said, "I have no clue how this got into my body." And didn't claim to not know what nandrolone is (she doth protest too much...)
Last edited by: trail: Jun 16, 21 13:32
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [trail] [ In reply to ]
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My two red flags are:

Why would a world class athlete, who would most likely be following a pretty strict diet, eat at a local food truck? I understand "girls just wanna have fun" and you do need a break from the regimen, but ... really?

Not knowing what nandrolone is and what happens if you get detected for it

These fall in the category of "Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining"

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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+1, but who keeps a receipt from a food truck?
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [tlc13] [ In reply to ]
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tlc13 wrote:
+1, but who keeps a receipt from a food truck?

I have been thinking about this and I never keep receipts, but I pay everything by CC including food trucks, so I'm not sure how she doesn't have this charge on her CC account as it would be relatively easy to look up unless she paid by cash.

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [tlc13] [ In reply to ]
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tlc13 wrote:
+1, but who keeps a receipt from a food truck?

Someone who can expense their food. When I travel for work I have to submit receipts for everything food trunk or nice dinner doesn’t matter.
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Re: 4yr ban for Shelby Houlihan [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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RandMart wrote:

Why would a world class athlete, who would most likely be following a pretty strict diet, eat at a local food truck? I understand "girls just wanna have fun" and you do need a break from the regimen, but ... really?

I don’t know how about this. I think a lot of people put these professionals up on the pedestal. They are not perfect nor should they. They don’t always do everything right, the way they “should”, or what is ideal/optimal for top performance. They are humans after all, not machines. I’m sure they like to have a cheat day or 2 just like the rest of us.

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Last edited by: stevej: Jun 16, 21 17:40
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