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Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:


Harvard-Westlake is a 7th-12th grade school. If you don't think the climate at a school can change significantly in that time, I'd say you're mistaken.

If it takes 6 years to change, there is plenty of time to move them somewhere else.
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Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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Thom wrote:
slowguy wrote:



Harvard-Westlake is a 7th-12th grade school. If you don't think the climate at a school can change significantly in that time, I'd say you're mistaken.


If it takes 6 years to change, there is plenty of time to move them somewhere else.

Funny stuff.

I wonder what the reception would be if poor urban students were afraid to speak up in class and their parents were afraid to register complaints about their schools.

My guess is that the response would be much different.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
Thom wrote:
slowguy wrote:



Harvard-Westlake is a 7th-12th grade school. If you don't think the climate at a school can change significantly in that time, I'd say you're mistaken.


If it takes 6 years to change, there is plenty of time to move them somewhere else.


Funny stuff.

I wonder what the reception would be if poor urban students were afraid to speak up in class and their parents were afraid to register complaints about their schools.

My guess is that the response would be much different.


Presuming these poor, urban students aren’t enrolled in pricey private schools the response should be much different.
Last edited by: chriskal: Mar 13, 21 11:20
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Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [chriskal] [ In reply to ]
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chriskal wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Thom wrote:
slowguy wrote:



Harvard-Westlake is a 7th-12th grade school. If you don't think the climate at a school can change significantly in that time, I'd say you're mistaken.


If it takes 6 years to change, there is plenty of time to move them somewhere else.


Funny stuff.

I wonder what the reception would be if poor urban students were afraid to speak up in class and their parents were afraid to register complaints about their schools.

My guess is that the response would be much different.


Presuming these poor, urban students aren’t enrolled in pricey private schools the response should be much different.


Yep, because we all know having money means your kids don't have actual feelings, and aren't entitled to the same level of comfort in their educational environment. And if you have money, it couldn't possibly be that the options available to you to achieve your specific goal might be limited.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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You know who went to Harvard Westlake? Nixon's Chief of staff. He also went to prison. The editor in Chief of Breibart went to Harvard Westlake as did Trump's White Nationalist Deputy communication director.

So much for the "kriegsphilosophie of wokeness "
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Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
TimeIsUp wrote:
Which begs the question, why do you want to be part of those circles? Why do they care if they are blacklisted from other private schools when it’s clear they don’t share the values the school is teaching? Do they not trust their friends to use common sense and judge for themselves? If not, again, why are they friends to begin with. This reeks of migrant caravan and MS-13 scare tactics.


I don't think it's always a matter of "wanting" to be part of certain circles. Parents want their kids to have the best shot at elite private universities, and one of the best paths for that is through these private elementary schools, high schools, and prep schools. If you want that path for your kids, you're in those circles, like it or not.

Are these the same elite private universities that we’ve been told have been indoctrinating young adults into ultra-liberalism for the past 20-30 years? Isn’t there a saying about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? Wealthy people trying to drum up sympathy for their plights. Oh, the humanity.
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Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
chriskal wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Thom wrote:
slowguy wrote:



Harvard-Westlake is a 7th-12th grade school. If you don't think the climate at a school can change significantly in that time, I'd say you're mistaken.


If it takes 6 years to change, there is plenty of time to move them somewhere else.


Funny stuff.

I wonder what the reception would be if poor urban students were afraid to speak up in class and their parents were afraid to register complaints about their schools.

My guess is that the response would be much different.


Presuming these poor, urban students aren’t enrolled in pricey private schools the response should be much different.



Yep, because we all know having money means your kids don't have actual feelings, and aren't entitled to the same level of comfort in their educational environment. And if you have money, it couldn't possibly be that the options available to you to achieve your specific goal might be limited.


We’re not talking apples to apples. Broadly speaking, the poor kids have little choice in where they go to school. Because they have little choice I think their voices should be heard.

The wealthy parents have chosen to send their kids to an expensive private institution. If they don’t like it, pick a different one or, egads, send them to public school. And if that doesn’t line up with their specific goal of taking advantage of a well worn pipeline to unearned power and prestige then, well, that’s tiny violin time.

I don’t have a lot of sympathy for people with the means to change their situation whining about their situation.
Last edited by: chriskal: Mar 13, 21 14:04
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Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [chriskal] [ In reply to ]
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chriskal wrote:
slowguy wrote:
chriskal wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Thom wrote:
slowguy wrote:



Harvard-Westlake is a 7th-12th grade school. If you don't think the climate at a school can change significantly in that time, I'd say you're mistaken.


If it takes 6 years to change, there is plenty of time to move them somewhere else.


Funny stuff.

I wonder what the reception would be if poor urban students were afraid to speak up in class and their parents were afraid to register complaints about their schools.

My guess is that the response would be much different.


Presuming these poor, urban students aren’t enrolled in pricey private schools the response should be much different.



Yep, because we all know having money means your kids don't have actual feelings, and aren't entitled to the same level of comfort in their educational environment. And if you have money, it couldn't possibly be that the options available to you to achieve your specific goal might be limited.


We’re not talking apples to apples. Broadly speaking, the poor kids have little choice in where they go to school. Because they have little choice I think their voices should be heard.

The wealthy parents have chosen to send their kids to an expensive private institution. If they don’t like it, pick a different one or, egads, send them to public school. And if that doesn’t line up with their specific goal of taking advantage of a well worn pipeline to unearned power and prestige then, well, that’s tiny violin time.

I don’t have a lot of sympathy for people with the means to change their situation whining about their situation.

Whether they have money or choices or not, kids shouldn't be afraid to express themselves in the classroom based on an ideology being pushed on them by school administration and teachers. That goes for a liberal or conservative agenda. And regardless of money or options, parents shouldn't have to be afraid of being shunned or blacklisted for expressing their concerns about their kids educational environment.

Quote:
If they don’t like it, pick a different one or, egads, send them to public school.

Well, except their concern is that complaining will get them blacklisted from the other options they have at that level, and they've specifically chosen that level because they believe it gives their kids the best opportunity going forward. So you're telling them they should just shut up, or send their kids somewhere that gives them less of an opportunity. Again, I think the double standard is kind of funny.

There's a crowd here in the LR that talks a big game about compassion for others, except when those others have a different political view or a different economic status.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
slowguy wrote:
chaparral wrote:
slowguy wrote:
chaparral wrote:
TimeIsUp wrote:
So I guess I shouldn’t send my kids to $50k/year schools and allow my life to be dictated by Ivy League graduates. Got it.

Do you know if City Journal is a hard right media source funded by big conservative think tanks? I couldn’t tell by that one article.


Just wild to have people complain like they are being forced to send their kids to a school with a tuition of $50k. Do they not see the obvious solution here? Who is putting a gun to their head and forcing them to send their kids there? That would be a much better story.


Well the opposite is true as well. They're paying $50k to send their kids somewhere, they should get a say in how those schools are run. They're the customer. They have every right to complain about the product they're paying for, and to try to get it the way they want it.


Sure, they could complain to the school. But that is not what we are talking about.

If you don't like the coffee at your Rolls Royce dealership, complain to the dealership, but I am going to laugh at you if you whine to some opinion writer. If the dealership doesn't listen to you, take your business elsewhere. They must living in some crazy bubble if they think anyone outside that school give a flying fuck about what these people are spending their money on.


If you don’t like the coffee at the Rolls dealership, and you complain, you’re not going to be blacklisted from all the other car dealerships, and potentially all your social circles, and your kids’ social circles.

Haha, yes changing your kids school is going to get you blacklisted. That is something that will happen.


I find if really hilarious that an author actually writes this:

"So it strikes them as something more than ironic that a school that costs more than $40,000 a year—a school with Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett’s right hand, and Sarah Murdoch, wife of Lachlan and Rupert’s daughter-in-law, on its board—is teaching students that capitalism is evil."

How do you write that and not think, "Surely these people are telling me the truth and not just what fits my ideology." It is not Barri Weiss was just caught repeating some ridiculous claims that she published, because they fit her ideology less than a week ago! Barri Weiss just takes these claims as true without any thought or research. I will admit, maybe this librarian is an amazing rapper, but I think the librarian's colleague was correct that a rap was not the best way to present the library to incoming freshmen and that someone telling her that should not be traumatic. They probably saved her from a more traumatic experience of the reaction to a middle age librarian rapping for college freshmen. Also Barri Weiss should have contacted the school to see what was true before she repeated this librarians claims.

I don't know if you know this, but parents lots of parents are fucking nutjobs with regards to their children's schooling, parents sending their kids to 50k a year schools doubly so. I can't emphasize enough how crazy parents are in this environment. What they say should be taken with a heavy heavy dose of salt.

Also, you really should talk to high school teachers about how effective they are at getting their students to retain basic information, let alone indoctrinate them. I went to a fancy private school and was in the track with some very good teachers, and even they had a hard time getting everyone to understand some basic concepts.

I think the probability these parents are nutjobs is much higher than this school is indoctrinating these kids that capitalism is evil. I would not be shocked that these not very diverse fancy private school are going to be very clumsy when trying to tell kids they live in a very isolated bubble (because of course they can't leave the bubble, that would be crazy), but I think it is probably worse to not try at all.
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Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [Nutella] [ In reply to ]
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Nutella wrote:
You know who went to Harvard Westlake? Nixon's Chief of staff. He also went to prison. The editor in Chief of Breibart went to Harvard Westlake as did Trump's White Nationalist Deputy communication director.

So much for the "kriegsphilosophie of wokeness "

It's a fairly recent phenomenon there. My daughter applied in 2018, and so we toured 5 or 6 local prep school. Most of them with the exception of one were either transitioning to wokeness or were just a few years into it. HV was not the wokest of them to be honest - the worst one was Oakwood but they are smaller and have less of a cache I suppose. The weird thing was that HV is crazy opulent, but also has one of highest rates of suicidal ideation.

Don't forget that such blatant indoctrination is bound to produce some blowback in at least some of the pupils.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
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Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [TimeIsUp] [ In reply to ]
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TimeIsUp wrote:
Are these the same elite private universities that we’ve been told have been indoctrinating young adults into ultra-liberalism for the past 20-30 years? Isn’t there a saying about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? Wealthy people trying to drum up sympathy for their plights. Oh, the humanity.


Goes back even farther than that, basically goes back 1910s at least. There is a famous New York Times story from something like 1916 that could be from today, where conservatives are complaining that campuses are silencing them and indoctrinating the students with liberal ideas. I can't seem to find it, but it is really hilarious how far back this nonsense goes. This study showed that students gain an appreciation for views all over the spectrum in college.

But may favorite part is, do people really think high school teachers are very effective at indoctrinating their students? I think many high school teachers would love if most of their students had more than a fleeting understanding of what they taught. Do people remember high school?

And is anyone shocked that parents, especially at these sorts of schools, are not always level headed about their children's schooling? Maybe the most likely thing going on here is that the parents are just bonkers and told Barri Weiss exactly what she wanted to hear and she spewed it back out.
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Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
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chaparral wrote:
slowguy wrote:
chaparral wrote:
slowguy wrote:
chaparral wrote:
TimeIsUp wrote:
So I guess I shouldn’t send my kids to $50k/year schools and allow my life to be dictated by Ivy League graduates. Got it.

Do you know if City Journal is a hard right media source funded by big conservative think tanks? I couldn’t tell by that one article.


Just wild to have people complain like they are being forced to send their kids to a school with a tuition of $50k. Do they not see the obvious solution here? Who is putting a gun to their head and forcing them to send their kids there? That would be a much better story.


Well the opposite is true as well. They're paying $50k to send their kids somewhere, they should get a say in how those schools are run. They're the customer. They have every right to complain about the product they're paying for, and to try to get it the way they want it.


Sure, they could complain to the school. But that is not what we are talking about.

If you don't like the coffee at your Rolls Royce dealership, complain to the dealership, but I am going to laugh at you if you whine to some opinion writer. If the dealership doesn't listen to you, take your business elsewhere. They must living in some crazy bubble if they think anyone outside that school give a flying fuck about what these people are spending their money on.


If you don’t like the coffee at the Rolls dealership, and you complain, you’re not going to be blacklisted from all the other car dealerships, and potentially all your social circles, and your kids’ social circles.


Haha, yes changing your kids school is going to get you blacklisted. That is something that will happen.


I find if really hilarious that an author actually writes this:

"So it strikes them as something more than ironic that a school that costs more than $40,000 a year—a school with Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett’s right hand, and Sarah Murdoch, wife of Lachlan and Rupert’s daughter-in-law, on its board—is teaching students that capitalism is evil."

How do you write that and not think, "Surely these people are telling me the truth and not just what fits my ideology." It is not Barri Weiss was just caught repeating some ridiculous claims that she published, because they fit her ideology less than a week ago! Barri Weiss just takes these claims as true without any thought or research. I will admit, maybe this librarian is an amazing rapper, but I think the librarian's colleague was correct that a rap was not the best way to present the library to incoming freshmen and that someone telling her that should not be traumatic. They probably saved her from a more traumatic experience of the reaction to a middle age librarian rapping for college freshmen. Also Barri Weiss should have contacted the school to see what was true before she repeated this librarians claims.

I don't know if you know this, but parents lots of parents are fucking nutjobs with regards to their children's schooling, parents sending their kids to 50k a year schools doubly so. I can't emphasize enough how crazy parents are in this environment. What they say should be taken with a heavy heavy dose of salt.

Also, you really should talk to high school teachers about how effective they are at getting their students to retain basic information, let alone indoctrinate them. I went to a fancy private school and was in the track with some very good teachers, and even they had a hard time getting everyone to understand some basic concepts.

I think the probability these parents are nutjobs is much higher than this school is indoctrinating these kids that capitalism is evil. I would not be shocked that these not very diverse fancy private school are going to be very clumsy when trying to tell kids they live in a very isolated bubble (because of course they can't leave the bubble, that would be crazy), but I think it is probably worse to not try at all.

My mother is a high school teacher, so you’ll have to forgive me if I choose not to take tips from you on what I do or don’t know from teachers and their interactions with students.

It may be that these parents are overblowing the actual situation. It may be that there’s nothing actually objectionable going on. My issue is with the people who talk a big game about compassion for others, but then when it’s the kid of an upper middle class family, they’re “princelings” who should shut up or their parents should shut up and just go somewhere else if they have a concern.

And if you don’t think families can get blacklisted within the private school community, then you simply don’t know what you’re talking about.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
Quote Reply
Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
alex_korr wrote:
Nutella wrote:
You know who went to Harvard Westlake? Nixon's Chief of staff. He also went to prison. The editor in Chief of Breibart went to Harvard Westlake as did Trump's White Nationalist Deputy communication director.

So much for the "kriegsphilosophie of wokeness "


It's a fairly recent phenomenon there. My daughter applied in 2018, and so we toured 5 or 6 local prep school. Most of them with the exception of one were either transitioning to wokeness or were just a few years into it. HV was not the wokest of them to be honest - the worst one was Oakwood but they are smaller and have less of a cache I suppose. The weird thing was that HV is crazy opulent, but also has one of highest rates of suicidal ideation.

Don't forget that such blatant indoctrination is bound to produce some blowback in at least some of the pupils.

Wokeness drives kids to suicide?
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Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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I think there is some gray area between having compassion for others and shedding tears for the 1% because their world is so confined. Having the means to send kids to $50k/year schools is most certainly not upper middle class.
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Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [TimeIsUp] [ In reply to ]
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TimeIsUp wrote:
I think there is some gray area between having compassion for others and shedding tears for the 1% because their world is so confined. Having the means to send kids to $50k/year schools is most certainly not upper middle class.

There’s definitely room in there. Where would you say calling the kids dismissive nicknames and telling their parents to shut up and go somewhere else if they have complaints lies in that spectrum? I’m pretty sure it’s actually nowhere between the two options you provided.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
slowguy wrote:
chaparral wrote:
slowguy wrote:
chaparral wrote:
slowguy wrote:
chaparral wrote:
TimeIsUp wrote:
So I guess I shouldn’t send my kids to $50k/year schools and allow my life to be dictated by Ivy League graduates. Got it.

Do you know if City Journal is a hard right media source funded by big conservative think tanks? I couldn’t tell by that one article.


Just wild to have people complain like they are being forced to send their kids to a school with a tuition of $50k. Do they not see the obvious solution here? Who is putting a gun to their head and forcing them to send their kids there? That would be a much better story.


Well the opposite is true as well. They're paying $50k to send their kids somewhere, they should get a say in how those schools are run. They're the customer. They have every right to complain about the product they're paying for, and to try to get it the way they want it.


Sure, they could complain to the school. But that is not what we are talking about.

If you don't like the coffee at your Rolls Royce dealership, complain to the dealership, but I am going to laugh at you if you whine to some opinion writer. If the dealership doesn't listen to you, take your business elsewhere. They must living in some crazy bubble if they think anyone outside that school give a flying fuck about what these people are spending their money on.


If you don’t like the coffee at the Rolls dealership, and you complain, you’re not going to be blacklisted from all the other car dealerships, and potentially all your social circles, and your kids’ social circles.


Haha, yes changing your kids school is going to get you blacklisted. That is something that will happen.


I find if really hilarious that an author actually writes this:

"So it strikes them as something more than ironic that a school that costs more than $40,000 a year—a school with Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett’s right hand, and Sarah Murdoch, wife of Lachlan and Rupert’s daughter-in-law, on its board—is teaching students that capitalism is evil."

How do you write that and not think, "Surely these people are telling me the truth and not just what fits my ideology." It is not Barri Weiss was just caught repeating some ridiculous claims that she published, because they fit her ideology less than a week ago! Barri Weiss just takes these claims as true without any thought or research. I will admit, maybe this librarian is an amazing rapper, but I think the librarian's colleague was correct that a rap was not the best way to present the library to incoming freshmen and that someone telling her that should not be traumatic. They probably saved her from a more traumatic experience of the reaction to a middle age librarian rapping for college freshmen. Also Barri Weiss should have contacted the school to see what was true before she repeated this librarians claims.

I don't know if you know this, but parents lots of parents are fucking nutjobs with regards to their children's schooling, parents sending their kids to 50k a year schools doubly so. I can't emphasize enough how crazy parents are in this environment. What they say should be taken with a heavy heavy dose of salt.

Also, you really should talk to high school teachers about how effective they are at getting their students to retain basic information, let alone indoctrinate them. I went to a fancy private school and was in the track with some very good teachers, and even they had a hard time getting everyone to understand some basic concepts.

I think the probability these parents are nutjobs is much higher than this school is indoctrinating these kids that capitalism is evil. I would not be shocked that these not very diverse fancy private school are going to be very clumsy when trying to tell kids they live in a very isolated bubble (because of course they can't leave the bubble, that would be crazy), but I think it is probably worse to not try at all.


My mother is a high school teacher, so you’ll have to forgive me if I choose not to take tips from you on what I do or don’t know from teachers and their interactions with students.

It may be that these parents are overblowing the actual situation. It may be that there’s nothing actually objectionable going on. My issue is with the people who talk a big game about compassion for others, but then when it’s the kid of an upper middle class family, they’re “princelings” who should shut up or their parents should shut up and just go somewhere else if they have a concern.

And if you don’t think families can get blacklisted within the private school community, then you simply don’t know what you’re talking about.

Well my sister is a high school teacher and my mother was a middle school teacher, so does that trump your silly claim? How exactly does this silly math work? Do you take my tips now? Did your mother ever have stories about crazy parents in schools in high school areas?

Honestly do you remember high school? I had a very good AP English Literature teacher (he had a phd and was a priest, in my experience the priests I have had in my education were consistently very good, something about devoting your life to something you love). But I really doubt more than 20% of the class could have talked eloquently about the themes and literary techniques in Madame Bovary a year after the class. Probably a similar percentage that could do a very thorough literally analysis of a text a year after. In my experience teachers were desperate to actually get the kids to have even a shallow understanding of the material and for them to retain it. Let alone something like math, how much of that retained. I think many teachers would love if they had this power people assume they do. They generally are happy if a couple students in a class really understand what they are teaching.

How much blacklisting at the country club is going to happen if you pull your kids out of school because they don't believe capitalism is evil? Do you think those people hate capitalism? Would they be blacklisted if they were overreacting, well that is possible, but that supports my position.

Nobody is saying the parents can't complain to the school, but if that doesn't work they should leave. Not whine anonymously to some silly ideologue.
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Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
chaparral wrote:
slowguy wrote:
chaparral wrote:
slowguy wrote:
chaparral wrote:
slowguy wrote:
chaparral wrote:
TimeIsUp wrote:
So I guess I shouldn’t send my kids to $50k/year schools and allow my life to be dictated by Ivy League graduates. Got it.

Do you know if City Journal is a hard right media source funded by big conservative think tanks? I couldn’t tell by that one article.


Just wild to have people complain like they are being forced to send their kids to a school with a tuition of $50k. Do they not see the obvious solution here? Who is putting a gun to their head and forcing them to send their kids there? That would be a much better story.


Well the opposite is true as well. They're paying $50k to send their kids somewhere, they should get a say in how those schools are run. They're the customer. They have every right to complain about the product they're paying for, and to try to get it the way they want it.


Sure, they could complain to the school. But that is not what we are talking about.

If you don't like the coffee at your Rolls Royce dealership, complain to the dealership, but I am going to laugh at you if you whine to some opinion writer. If the dealership doesn't listen to you, take your business elsewhere. They must living in some crazy bubble if they think anyone outside that school give a flying fuck about what these people are spending their money on.


If you don’t like the coffee at the Rolls dealership, and you complain, you’re not going to be blacklisted from all the other car dealerships, and potentially all your social circles, and your kids’ social circles.


Haha, yes changing your kids school is going to get you blacklisted. That is something that will happen.


I find if really hilarious that an author actually writes this:

"So it strikes them as something more than ironic that a school that costs more than $40,000 a year—a school with Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett’s right hand, and Sarah Murdoch, wife of Lachlan and Rupert’s daughter-in-law, on its board—is teaching students that capitalism is evil."

How do you write that and not think, "Surely these people are telling me the truth and not just what fits my ideology." It is not Barri Weiss was just caught repeating some ridiculous claims that she published, because they fit her ideology less than a week ago! Barri Weiss just takes these claims as true without any thought or research. I will admit, maybe this librarian is an amazing rapper, but I think the librarian's colleague was correct that a rap was not the best way to present the library to incoming freshmen and that someone telling her that should not be traumatic. They probably saved her from a more traumatic experience of the reaction to a middle age librarian rapping for college freshmen. Also Barri Weiss should have contacted the school to see what was true before she repeated this librarians claims.

I don't know if you know this, but parents lots of parents are fucking nutjobs with regards to their children's schooling, parents sending their kids to 50k a year schools doubly so. I can't emphasize enough how crazy parents are in this environment. What they say should be taken with a heavy heavy dose of salt.

Also, you really should talk to high school teachers about how effective they are at getting their students to retain basic information, let alone indoctrinate them. I went to a fancy private school and was in the track with some very good teachers, and even they had a hard time getting everyone to understand some basic concepts.

I think the probability these parents are nutjobs is much higher than this school is indoctrinating these kids that capitalism is evil. I would not be shocked that these not very diverse fancy private school are going to be very clumsy when trying to tell kids they live in a very isolated bubble (because of course they can't leave the bubble, that would be crazy), but I think it is probably worse to not try at all.


My mother is a high school teacher, so you’ll have to forgive me if I choose not to take tips from you on what I do or don’t know from teachers and their interactions with students.

It may be that these parents are overblowing the actual situation. It may be that there’s nothing actually objectionable going on. My issue is with the people who talk a big game about compassion for others, but then when it’s the kid of an upper middle class family, they’re “princelings” who should shut up or their parents should shut up and just go somewhere else if they have a concern.

And if you don’t think families can get blacklisted within the private school community, then you simply don’t know what you’re talking about.


Well my sister is a high school teacher and my mother was a middle school teacher, so does that trump your silly claim? How exactly does this silly math work? Do you take my tips now? Did your mother ever have stories about crazy parents in schools in high school areas?

Honestly do you remember high school? I had a very good AP English Literature teacher (he had a phd and was a priest, in my experience the priests I have had in my education were consistently very good, something about devoting your life to something you love). But I really doubt more than 20% of the class could have talked eloquently about the themes and literary techniques in Madame Bovary a year after the class. Probably a similar percentage that could do a very thorough literally analysis of a text a year after. In my experience teachers were desperate to actually get the kids to have even a shallow understanding of the material and for them to retain it. Let alone something like math, how much of that retained. I think many teachers would love if they had this power people assume they do. They generally are happy if a couple students in a class really understand what they are teaching.

How much blacklisting at the country club is going to happen if you pull your kids out of school because they don't believe capitalism is evil? Do you think those people hate capitalism? Would they be blacklisted if they were overreacting, well that is possible, but that supports my position.

Nobody is saying the parents can't complain to the school, but if that doesn't work they should leave. Not whine anonymously to some silly ideologue.

I'm not trying to "trump" anything. I'm simply countering your condescending suggestion that I talk to some teachers.

Despite your long history of dismissing anything you disagree with, just because you don't like what I said, that doesn't actually mean it's silly. These parents are concerned with the possibility that if they or their kids speak up, they could be dismissed from the school. If you don't think that can or does happen, you don't know what you're talking about. They're also concerned about that action being followed up by essentially being blacklisted from other private school options (not the country club). If you don't think that can or does happen, again, you don't know what you're talking about.

I get it, kids don't pay attention to dates in history class or examples of symbolism in English Lit. You know what they do pay attention to and absorb? The attitudes and ideologies of the faculty and administration. Those things permeate the entire school experience, while learning the dates of major events in US history last for as long as you need to know them for a test. If the faculty and administration are friendly, open to feedback, receptive to discussion of varying ideas, etc, then that sticks with kids. If the faculty and administration are close-minded, shut down open dialogue, and demand adherence to a specific ideology, then that sticks as well. Themes stick. Discreet facts frequently don't. "America is evil and you as a white princeling of privilege bear guilt for the evils of past generations" sticks.

Maybe that's the message being presented to the students at these schools, or maybe not. But if the students and the parents are worried about being able to speak openly to the school administration, then that's a problem.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [TimeIsUp] [ In reply to ]
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TimeIsUp wrote:
I think there is some gray area between having compassion for others and shedding tears for the 1% because their world is so confined. Having the means to send kids to $50k/year schools is most certainly not upper middle class.

Here says upper middle class cut off is $373,894, so it is possible some of the families there are upper middle class, but I think the majority of families make more than that (or have that income but a huge amount of inherited money that actually funds their life). But I don't think those few upper middle class families are the ones worried about be blacklisted, they were probably never really on the list to begin with.
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Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [Nutella] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Nutella wrote:
alex_korr wrote:
Nutella wrote:
You know who went to Harvard Westlake? Nixon's Chief of staff. He also went to prison. The editor in Chief of Breibart went to Harvard Westlake as did Trump's White Nationalist Deputy communication director.

So much for the "kriegsphilosophie of wokeness "


It's a fairly recent phenomenon there. My daughter applied in 2018, and so we toured 5 or 6 local prep school. Most of them with the exception of one were either transitioning to wokeness or were just a few years into it. HV was not the wokest of them to be honest - the worst one was Oakwood but they are smaller and have less of a cache I suppose. The weird thing was that HV is crazy opulent, but also has one of highest rates of suicidal ideation.

Don't forget that such blatant indoctrination is bound to produce some blowback in at least some of the pupils.

Wokeness drives kids to suicide?

No. But your mom's substandard blowjobs do.

HV is known to be incredibly high pressure academically.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
Quote Reply
Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
slowguy wrote:
TimeIsUp wrote:
I think there is some gray area between having compassion for others and shedding tears for the 1% because their world is so confined. Having the means to send kids to $50k/year schools is most certainly not upper middle class.


There’s definitely room in there. Where would you say calling the kids dismissive nicknames and telling their parents to shut up and go somewhere else if they have complaints lies in that spectrum? I’m pretty sure it’s actually nowhere between the two options you provided.

I had to go back and look what you meant regarding the dismissive nicknames and it appears I missed quite a few posts in this thread. I assume you mean “princelings”? I’d refrain from calling a child that unless I had first hand experience. From my time in upper middle class public education, I found 1%’er kids (pro sports mostly) more often than not to be humble and respectful.

As far as the go somewhere else complaint I’d say that lies well within my comment about their supposed confined worlds. Most of these people have FU money or close to it. They have the world at their fingertips. It is the literal antonym to confined.
Quote Reply
Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
slowguy wrote:
TimeIsUp wrote:
I think there is some gray area between having compassion for others and shedding tears for the 1% because their world is so confined. Having the means to send kids to $50k/year schools is most certainly not upper middle class.

There’s definitely room in there. Where would you say calling the kids dismissive nicknames and telling their parents to shut up and go somewhere else if they have complaints lies in that spectrum? I’m pretty sure it’s actually nowhere between the two options you provided.

I’m guessing Slowguy didn’t read the article very carefully because it looks like he doesn’t know that the author called the kids “princelings.”

These parents are pretty fortunate in that they (of all parents of school-aged kids) probably have the social and economic capital to withstand dealing with offensive curriculum.

I’m glad Slowguy has compassion for these unfortunate people who are suffering the slings and arrows of discrimination. He’s a champion of the rich!
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Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [CallMeMaybe] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hell, I read the entire article, reread several parts, and didn't even catch that, but slowguy’s memory puts mine to shame.
Quote Reply
Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [TimeIsUp] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It’s from the best paragraph in the article. It reads,

“That is not the only reason this story matters. These schools are called prep schools because they prepare America’s princelings to take their place in what we’re told is our meritocracy. Nothing happens at a top prep school that is not a mirror of what happens at an elite college.”

This paragraph is a delight to read. Everyone should care about these princelings who are being prepared to “take their place” in “what we’re told is our meritocracy.” That’s a hilarious and uber-entitled view of America. The icing on the cake is the idea that woke-ness is invading elite colleges as well. Ooo! 👀

This is a little bit like the bbq-gun picture. It’s so ridiculous that I wonder if it’s a joke?
Quote Reply
Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [CallMeMaybe] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
CallMeMaybe wrote:

“That is not the only reason this story matters. These schools are called prep schools because they prepare America’s princelings to take their place in what we’re told is our meritocracy. Nothing happens at a top prep school that is not a mirror of what happens at an elite college.”

Damn, could that be any more entitled?

I get tired of trudging through the wokeness crisis threads but are any of the LR philosophers proposing a solution to the problem?
Quote Reply
Re: “Wokeness & cancel culture” vs “Excuse me, I’m speaking” [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
alex_korr wrote:
Nutella wrote:
alex_korr wrote:
Nutella wrote:
You know who went to Harvard Westlake? Nixon's Chief of staff. He also went to prison. The editor in Chief of Breibart went to Harvard Westlake as did Trump's White Nationalist Deputy communication director.

So much for the "kriegsphilosophie of wokeness "


It's a fairly recent phenomenon there. My daughter applied in 2018, and so we toured 5 or 6 local prep school. Most of them with the exception of one were either transitioning to wokeness or were just a few years into it. HV was not the wokest of them to be honest - the worst one was Oakwood but they are smaller and have less of a cache I suppose. The weird thing was that HV is crazy opulent, but also has one of highest rates of suicidal ideation.

Don't forget that such blatant indoctrination is bound to produce some blowback in at least some of the pupils.


Wokeness drives kids to suicide?


No. But your mom's substandard blowjobs do.

HV is known to be incredibly high pressure academically.

Thanks for confirming yet again you are a pathetic, childish, troll.
Quote Reply

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