what i mean is, it's not up to the teacher to deliver the material. it's up to the teacher whether the student learns the material. ---
Err... what?
It is absolutely up to the teacher to deliver the material. And how to deliver the material. And to decide whether the student learns the material. And to determine to what degree the student learns the materials. And to change their delivery system if it's determined that the students aren't learning it at an acceptable level.
I think Dan’s saying that the teacher’s responsibility doesn’t end at simply delivering information. They have, as you described, responsibility to make sure the students learn, which includes more than just delivering the material.
That said, depending on school district and State, the ability to vary delivery of information is frequently more restricted than people might think. Add to that the fact that there simply isn’t enough time or resources to teach every individual student with an individual plan. There has to be some standardization to curriculum and delivery methods. Slowguy
You go on a tangent about provocateurs on the right stoking hate while completely ignoring the divisions created by the Left which IMO gave rise to the provocateurs on the Right even having a voice.
The fundamental principles are to denigrate and diminish your opponent while isolating them as the enemy, basically creating the tribes you reference. Over time the denigrating and polarization morphs into hate on both sides, as both the action and reaction and here we are.
And no I don't think we can pull back unless there is a fundamental change to the strategies of both parties.
You’re blaming the left for the conduct of the right. You cannot claim excuse or justification for the conduct of the right.
To be excused, you would have to show that the current GOP lacks intent for their bullshit or is otherwise unable to be responsible for the bullshit. That is clearly not the case.
To be justified, you would have to show that the current GOP’s conduct is thought to be right or promotes a socially desirable value. Ignoring the authority of the decisions of our judicial branch and attacking the legislative branch is not right. You cannot say the GOP promotes our democracy.
My kids attempt to blame each other for their own mistakes, too. George was snotty to Henry three weeks ago. So Henry was snotty and physically intimidated George today. Does Henry get a pass? No.
It is not my responsibility to answer for George when I hold Henry to account. George is not on trial. Did George err three weeks ago? It’s possible. Did the Clintons err many years ago? It’s possible. But it is Trump and the insane GOP that is on trial today.
I also think there’s a substantive difference between hating someone for their politics, and hating someone for their ethnicity.
and...
slowguy wrote:
Her point was that the Holocaust and WWII didn’t start out at full on war and genocide. It started as one group convincing individual people to hate their neighbors based on religion/ethnicity. And that she sees the current hatred being directed at Trump supporters as analogous, and a dangerous first step down a bad road.
i see your points (quotes above taken from 2 of your posts). but i'm not so sure i agree any longer, in the context of america's divisions, that there is a firm line between politics and religion (and perhaps ethnicity). while i understand carano's point, i think she's got it backwards. starting in 1994, with newt gingrich, along with the rise in AM hate radio (limbaugh notably), the people who were the cause of all your personal failures were women, and democrats.
i think you can see that among a lot of republicans there has been a morphing (blending) of religion and republicanism, and now trumpism, sort of like when a new religion imposed on an old, and you get a durable blend of orthodoxy and paganism.
this new trumpo-christianity has replaced the apostle's creed, and you may as well print it on the back of the week's program handed to you as you enter church. there is no more evangelical christianity in america. it's gone. to be fair to believers - and i mean believers, not those who check a "christian" radio button - this religion was always supposed to be a small persecuted insurgency, separate from govt, rendering unto god what is god's. evangelicalism renders unto trump what is god's. today's true christian insurgency is not arrayed against democrats, but against evangelicals.
what are religions and ethnicities other than tribes? can you tell the difference between a serb and a croat? an armenian and a turk? what we have, today, is a quarter century of hate spewed by right winger loudmouths. not disagreement. hate. there is no real difference between evangelicalism and trumpism. you can't parse between them. this is a tribe.
but the hate has been there for a long time, stoked by right wing provocateurs. trump gave it a megaphone, and brought haters out of the closet. he made right wing hate respectable. the reason so many christians and republicans were willing to abandon everything we thought they believed in to side with trump is because we didn't understand what they really believed in all along.
so, i'm not so sure anymore that in our present environment that meaningful difference between politics and religion exists. trumpo-christians have formed something that smells and tastes like a religion, and they have decided that coastal elites, educated women, and so on form the "tribe" of infidels that stand in their way. (which explains why no republican senators will vote for wildly popular legislation, if it's proposed by the infidel party.)
hate is hate.
Yes Dan it's just the Right being divisive...the snow driven Left is a kumbaya circle of peace & love man.
The Rules
"Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have."
"Never go outside the expertise of your people."
"Whenever possible go outside the expertise of the enemy."
"Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules."
"Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. There is no defense. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage."
"A good tactic is one your people enjoy."
"A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag."
"Keep the pressure on."
"The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself. "
"The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition."
"If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside; this is based on the principle that every positive has its negative."
"The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative."
"Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. "
Saul Alinksy my man ... minus 3 points
Should I bother or will you just call me a Trump supporter despite all the evidence to the contrary? (Rules 5,6,8,11 and 13 combined)
You go on a tangent about provocateurs on the right stoking hate while completely ignoring the divisions created by the Left which IMO gave rise to the provocateurs on the Right even having a voice.
The Rules are the foundation for the modern Democratic Party's playbook (Dukakis was the last candidate to not be tainted by it IMO). Bill Clinton started to use some of it due to Hillary (wrote her thesis on Alinsky) Gore less so but he uses Clinton operatives, Obama grew up politically in literally where the Rules originated, Hillary see above, Biden tainted by Obama (and they are relatively moderate in their utilization compared to down ticket usage).
But windy those meanies on the Right. Well around 2009 the Tea Party aka the original provocateurs (they at least had a pretense of Conservative values) started using the Rules (I mean they literally handed out the fucking book at meetings) and began deploying the tactics. Well damn if it didn't work for them too both internecine and in attacking the Left. The the fringes of both parties were like damn girlfriend and here we are.
The fundamental principles are to denigrate and diminish your opponent while isolating them as the enemy, basically creating the tribes you reference. Over time the denigrating and polarization morphs into hate on both sides, as both the action and reaction and here we are.
And no I don't think we can pull back unless there is a fundamental change to the strategies of both parties.
first, i'm not a student of saul alinksy as you obviously are. second, if obama is tainted by alinksy because of where he lived, then you are too. third, newt gingrich wants his talking point back. you are flailingly struggling to find a way to defend your tribe down at CPAC, and everyone here - even many of our traditional righties - are shaking their heads at you. Dan Empfield aka Slowman
what i mean is, it's not up to the teacher to deliver the material. it's up to the teacher whether the student learns the material. ---
Err... what?
It is absolutely up to the teacher to deliver the material. And how to deliver the material. And to decide whether the student learns the material. And to determine to what degree the student learns the materials. And to change their delivery system if it's determined that the students aren't learning it at an acceptable level.
i suspect the better teachers try their best to deliver material in a way that's absorbable by the students. i guess we'll just disagree on this. Dan Empfield aka Slowman
That said, depending on school district and State, the ability to vary delivery of information is frequently more restricted than people might think.
This piece is true.
I was in a school district where they had a committee write the lesson plans for the math teachers in the district. So not only were you told that the kids needed to know the Pythagorean theorem by the end of the semester, but on what day they were going to learn it, and exactly what methods and explanations you were going to use to get them to learn it.
It was a shitty idea by an authoritarian who thought she was going to revolutionize the way math was taught in our little farm town........but I digress. -----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants -----------------------------RunTraining articles here: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
what i mean is, it's not up to the teacher to deliver the material. it's up to the teacher whether the student learns the material. ---
Err... what?
It is absolutely up to the teacher to deliver the material. And how to deliver the material. And to decide whether the student learns the material. And to determine to what degree the student learns the materials. And to change their delivery system if it's determined that the students aren't learning it at an acceptable level.
i suspect the better teachers try their best to deliver material in a way that's absorbable by the students. i guess we'll just disagree on this.
Having more that a little experience in this area (teaching varied folks pretty challenging motor skills in high pressure environments), absolutely, decent teachers tailor and adjust the method of teaching to the student's needs. And there is any easy feedback loop to utilize: is the student mastering the skill? No, then the teacher needs to try a different teaching method. Is the student mastering the skill with the new teaching method? No, then the teacher needs to try yet another teaching method. And so on, Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA. DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook --
what i mean is, it's not up to the teacher to deliver the material. it's up to the teacher whether the student learns the material. ---
Err... what?
It is absolutely up to the teacher to deliver the material. And how to deliver the material. And to decide whether the student learns the material. And to determine to what degree the student learns the materials. And to change their delivery system if it's determined that the students aren't learning it at an acceptable level.
i suspect the better teachers try their best to deliver material in a way that's absorbable by the students. i guess we'll just disagree on this.
Having more that a little experience in this area (teaching varied folks pretty challenging motor skills in high pressure environments), absolutely, decent teachers tailor and adjust the method of teaching to the student's needs. And there is any easy feedback loop to utilize: is the student mastering the skill? No, then the teacher needs to try a different teaching method. Is the student mastering the skill with the new teaching method? No, then the teacher needs to try yet another teaching method. And so on,
That may be ideal, but the basic truth is that this frequently isn’t how schools (public schools in particular) work. Teachers frequently are told what to teach, when, and how. And they are required to move students through the curriculum at a certain pace, in order to get through all the material by the end of a semester or year. It’s nice when a teacher can identify that a student needs a different teaching method and can find the time to deliver that, but many teachers don’t have that skill set or the extra time to offer.
As with any program, if you work it at small scale, you tend to have flexibility to provide a customized product whether that be custom clothing, custom business solutions, or custom learning experiences. If you work on a large scale, and especially when you get government involved, you are going to get a more standardized product. It’s difficult if not impossible to get around that. Slowguy
I also think there’s a substantive difference between hating someone for their politics, and hating someone for their ethnicity.
and...
slowguy wrote:
Her point was that the Holocaust and WWII didn’t start out at full on war and genocide. It started as one group convincing individual people to hate their neighbors based on religion/ethnicity. And that she sees the current hatred being directed at Trump supporters as analogous, and a dangerous first step down a bad road.
i see your points (quotes above taken from 2 of your posts). but i'm not so sure i agree any longer, in the context of america's divisions, that there is a firm line between politics and religion (and perhaps ethnicity). while i understand carano's point, i think she's got it backwards. starting in 1994, with newt gingrich, along with the rise in AM hate radio (limbaugh notably), the people who were the cause of all your personal failures were women, and democrats.
i think you can see that among a lot of republicans there has been a morphing (blending) of religion and republicanism, and now trumpism, sort of like when a new religion imposed on an old, and you get a durable blend of orthodoxy and paganism.
this new trumpo-christianity has replaced the apostle's creed, and you may as well print it on the back of the week's program handed to you as you enter church. there is no more evangelical christianity in america. it's gone. to be fair to believers - and i mean believers, not those who check a "christian" radio button - this religion was always supposed to be a small persecuted insurgency, separate from govt, rendering unto god what is god's. evangelicalism renders unto trump what is god's. today's true christian insurgency is not arrayed against democrats, but against evangelicals.
what are religions and ethnicities other than tribes? can you tell the difference between a serb and a croat? an armenian and a turk? what we have, today, is a quarter century of hate spewed by right winger loudmouths. not disagreement. hate. there is no real difference between evangelicalism and trumpism. you can't parse between them. this is a tribe.
but the hate has been there for a long time, stoked by right wing provocateurs. trump gave it a megaphone, and brought haters out of the closet. he made right wing hate respectable. the reason so many christians and republicans were willing to abandon everything we thought they believed in to side with trump is because we didn't understand what they really believed in all along.
so, i'm not so sure anymore that in our present environment that meaningful difference between politics and religion exists. trumpo-christians have formed something that smells and tastes like a religion, and they have decided that coastal elites, educated women, and so on form the "tribe" of infidels that stand in their way. (which explains why no republican senators will vote for wildly popular legislation, if it's proposed by the infidel party.)
hate is hate.
Yes Dan it's just the Right being divisive...the snow driven Left is a kumbaya circle of peace & love man.
The Rules
"Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have."
"Never go outside the expertise of your people."
"Whenever possible go outside the expertise of the enemy."
"Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules."
"Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. There is no defense. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage."
"A good tactic is one your people enjoy."
"A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag."
"Keep the pressure on."
"The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself. "
"The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition."
"If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside; this is based on the principle that every positive has its negative."
"The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative."
"Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. "
Saul Alinksy my man ... minus 3 points
Should I bother or will you just call me a Trump supporter despite all the evidence to the contrary? (Rules 5,6,8,11 and 13 combined)
You go on a tangent about provocateurs on the right stoking hate while completely ignoring the divisions created by the Left which IMO gave rise to the provocateurs on the Right even having a voice.
The Rules are the foundation for the modern Democratic Party's playbook (Dukakis was the last candidate to not be tainted by it IMO). Bill Clinton started to use some of it due to Hillary (wrote her thesis on Alinsky) Gore less so but he uses Clinton operatives, Obama grew up politically in literally where the Rules originated, Hillary see above, Biden tainted by Obama (and they are relatively moderate in their utilization compared to down ticket usage).
But windy those meanies on the Right. Well around 2009 the Tea Party aka the original provocateurs (they at least had a pretense of Conservative values) started using the Rules (I mean they literally handed out the fucking book at meetings) and began deploying the tactics. Well damn if it didn't work for them too both internecine and in attacking the Left. The the fringes of both parties were like damn girlfriend and here we are.
The fundamental principles are to denigrate and diminish your opponent while isolating them as the enemy, basically creating the tribes you reference. Over time the denigrating and polarization morphs into hate on both sides, as both the action and reaction and here we are.
And no I don't think we can pull back unless there is a fundamental change to the strategies of both parties.
first, i'm not a student of saul alinksy as you obviously are. second, if obama is tainted by alinksy because of where he lived, then you are too. third, newt gingrich wants his talking point back. you are flailingly struggling to find a way to defend your tribe down at CPAC, and everyone here - even many of our traditional righties - are shaking their heads at you.
So the answer is no I shouldn't have bothered
You may not be a student but you're a practioner as evidenced by your post.
Instead of becoming reflexively indignant at Hawley's posts I invite you to evaluate the veracity of his position objectively
“Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners.” - George Carlin
I don’t think we’re talking about political correctness here. We’re talking about words that people of different backgrounds use to describe things, and having an openness to different meanings in order to get past the differences in vocabulary.
If political correctness is saying only one particular term is correct, then I’m suggesting that there are multiple correct terms. Don’t insist on your own word— build goodwill by being flexible with words.
This was just an idea— a little like word empathy. Instead of putting yourself in someone else’s shoes to imagine what their experience is like, put yourself in someone else’s vocabulary to discuss an idea.
I think I understand your point, but let me quote Brownie28's question from page 1 and I'll elaborate on my point.
Brownie28 wrote:
CallMeMaybe wrote:
Do certain words and phrases jar you? Does reading about “white supremacy math” bug you? Does the phrase “math teaching styles that are disrespectful to human dignity” bug you? They are the same thing.
Can you explain what these phrases mean to you, and what white supremacy has to do with math? Genuine question.
I'll echo Brownie28's request to explain what you mean by these two phrases. I don't know how you define "white supremacy math" or how that would look in a classroom. Absent that definition, I would have to withhold judgement on your assertion that "teaching styles that are disrespectful to human dignity" is equivalent to some nebulous concept of "white supremacy." It's hard to be empathetic to something one doesn't understand. Perhaps I could put myself in your shoes if I knew what you meant.
What does seem more important to you is manners, which is what brought the Carlin quote back to mind. Like others, I can't recall any math class where I felt any student was disrespected through teaching styles [There was that one teacher who hit a kid over the head with a stapler, but that's another story].
I think how something is taught is less important than what is being taught. I'd rather have a strict teacher from whom I would learn more than an easy-going teacher from whom I would learn less. Putting a priority on how a student is treated rather than what they learn falls squarely into the category of political correctness, in my book.
Yesterday's Real Time with Bill Maher focused on what's being taught in the NY city area schools. Here's a five minute clip.
Lord have mercy. I won’t watch 5 minutes of Megyn Kelly. But I’ll try to answer your question.
There was a discussion about the LA unified school district and a plan they had to address racial equity issues. Someone who read the whole thing (not me) said the term “white supremacy math” was in it. The phrase floated around in my brain for a few days, and the OP was the result. Voila!
Manners are included in my interests, but my interests include the legal right of all students to have the opportunity to reach their potential. Being polite but unhelpful isn’t good enough. If particular words, phrases, interactions, and teaching styles are effective for only one particular group of students, then I think teachers should be encouraged and trained and supported to use other words, phrases, interactions and teaching styles that will reach the other groups of students.
As the teachers on this forum can attest, teachers receive training days to learn about various plans to better educate kids. I’m pretty sure the definition of “white supremacy math” would be discussed and explained in that LAUSD training. For our purposes, I thought my definition was probably good enough.
I should add that I’m glad that you and others (Alex Korr & his family) have not felt marginalized or negatively impacted by teaching styles.
Please don’t assume your experience is the same for everyone else.
If we think of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, we know that feeling safe, welcomed, respected is necessary before optimal learning can happen.
I got all of those things first from my parents, not my teachers. We may have grown up poor, but I had great parents. Not everyone does. Expecting teachers to make up for poor parenting is unrealistic.
Consider another idea.
T talent O opportunity E effort
A person's potential is a combination of at least these three things. While I agree that everyone should have the same opportunities, there are far too many variables to guarantee equitable outcomes. Not everyone is capable of the same achievement.
I should add that I’m glad that you and others (Alex Korr & his family) have not felt marginalized or negatively impacted by teaching styles.
Please don’t assume your experience is the same for everyone else.
If we think of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, we know that feeling safe, welcomed, respected is necessary before optimal learning can happen.
I got all of those things first from my parents, not my teachers. We may have grown up poor, but I had great parents. Not everyone does. Expecting teachers to make up for poor parenting is unrealistic.
Consider another idea.
T talent O opportunity E effort
A person's potential is a combination of at least these three things. While I agree that everyone should have the same opportunities, there are far too many variables to guarantee equitable outcomes. Not everyone is capable of the same achievement.
I don’t think we’re talking about the same thing. I’m talking about safety, welcome, and respect. Parents don’t make that at school. I suppose that fits into the “opportunity” that schools provide.
However, I agree that not everyone is capable of the same achievement. I would like to see everyone achieve their potential (through effort). To do so, they need to be safe, welcomed, and respected.
Lord have mercy. I won’t watch 5 minutes of Megyn Kelly.
Wise move.
Kelly talked about how she pulled her kids out of a New York City private school, because the “leftist” school was teaching her children “social justice stuff”. She claims the school was trying to convince her kid to be Transgender.
Kelly pushes nonsense like this because she knows her income is dependent on the outrage machine being fed fake grievance.
what i mean is, it's not up to the teacher to deliver the material. it's up to the teacher whether the student learns the material. ---
Err... what?
It is absolutely up to the teacher to deliver the material. And how to deliver the material. And to decide whether the student learns the material. And to determine to what degree the student learns the materials. And to change their delivery system if it's determined that the students aren't learning it at an acceptable level.
i suspect the better teachers try their best to deliver material in a way that's absorbable by the students. i guess we'll just disagree on this.
Having more that a little experience in this area (teaching varied folks pretty challenging motor skills in high pressure environments), absolutely, decent teachers tailor and adjust the method of teaching to the student's needs. And there is any easy feedback loop to utilize: is the student mastering the skill? No, then the teacher needs to try a different teaching method. Is the student mastering the skill with the new teaching method? No, then the teacher needs to try yet another teaching method. And so on,
That may be ideal, but the basic truth is that this frequently isn’t how schools (public schools in particular) work. Teachers frequently are told what to teach, when, and how. And they are required to move students through the curriculum at a certain pace, in order to get through all the material by the end of a semester or year. It’s nice when a teacher can identify that a student needs a different teaching method and can find the time to deliver that, but many teachers don’t have that skill set or the extra time to offer.
As with any program, if you work it at small scale, you tend to have flexibility to provide a customized product whether that be custom clothing, custom business solutions, or custom learning experiences. If you work on a large scale, and especially when you get government involved, you are going to get a more standardized product. It’s difficult if not impossible to get around that.
Sure. This is commonly said, but really it is just excuses.
I worked within a rigid curriculum provided by the US govt (the FAA), but l was still able to considerably tailor my teaching approach within that framework to attain success with each student.
Even within a rigid framework, if one wants to get results, one can get results. The teacher just needs to be able to adapt their approach. But the teacher has to want to. Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA. DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook --
what i mean is, it's not up to the teacher to deliver the material. it's up to the teacher whether the student learns the material. ---
Err... what?
It is absolutely up to the teacher to deliver the material. And how to deliver the material. And to decide whether the student learns the material. And to determine to what degree the student learns the materials. And to change their delivery system if it's determined that the students aren't learning it at an acceptable level.
i suspect the better teachers try their best to deliver material in a way that's absorbable by the students. i guess we'll just disagree on this.
Having more that a little experience in this area (teaching varied folks pretty challenging motor skills in high pressure environments), absolutely, decent teachers tailor and adjust the method of teaching to the student's needs. And there is any easy feedback loop to utilize: is the student mastering the skill? No, then the teacher needs to try a different teaching method. Is the student mastering the skill with the new teaching method? No, then the teacher needs to try yet another teaching method. And so on,
That may be ideal, but the basic truth is that this frequently isn’t how schools (public schools in particular) work. Teachers frequently are told what to teach, when, and how. And they are required to move students through the curriculum at a certain pace, in order to get through all the material by the end of a semester or year. It’s nice when a teacher can identify that a student needs a different teaching method and can find the time to deliver that, but many teachers don’t have that skill set or the extra time to offer.
As with any program, if you work it at small scale, you tend to have flexibility to provide a customized product whether that be custom clothing, custom business solutions, or custom learning experiences. If you work on a large scale, and especially when you get government involved, you are going to get a more standardized product. It’s difficult if not impossible to get around that.
Sure. This is commonly said, but really it is just excuses.
I worked within a rigid curriculum provided by the US govt (the FAA), but l was still able to considerably tailor my teaching approach within that framework to attain success with each student.
Even within a rigid framework, if one wants to get results, one can get results. The teacher just needs to be able to adapt their approach. But the teacher has to want to.
If you think your training experience with the FAA is comparable in scope or breadth with public school education for our kids, I think you might need to reconsider.
Whether you like it or not, my post wasn’t “excuses.” It described the conditions many teachers are working with. Slowguy
what i mean is, it's not up to the teacher to deliver the material. it's up to the teacher whether the student learns the material. ---
Err... what?
It is absolutely up to the teacher to deliver the material. And how to deliver the material. And to decide whether the student learns the material. And to determine to what degree the student learns the materials. And to change their delivery system if it's determined that the students aren't learning it at an acceptable level.
i suspect the better teachers try their best to deliver material in a way that's absorbable by the students. i guess we'll just disagree on this.
Having more that a little experience in this area (teaching varied folks pretty challenging motor skills in high pressure environments), absolutely, decent teachers tailor and adjust the method of teaching to the student's needs. And there is any easy feedback loop to utilize: is the student mastering the skill? No, then the teacher needs to try a different teaching method. Is the student mastering the skill with the new teaching method? No, then the teacher needs to try yet another teaching method. And so on,
That may be ideal, but the basic truth is that this frequently isn’t how schools (public schools in particular) work. Teachers frequently are told what to teach, when, and how. And they are required to move students through the curriculum at a certain pace, in order to get through all the material by the end of a semester or year. It’s nice when a teacher can identify that a student needs a different teaching method and can find the time to deliver that, but many teachers don’t have that skill set or the extra time to offer.
As with any program, if you work it at small scale, you tend to have flexibility to provide a customized product whether that be custom clothing, custom business solutions, or custom learning experiences. If you work on a large scale, and especially when you get government involved, you are going to get a more standardized product. It’s difficult if not impossible to get around that.
Sure. This is commonly said, but really it is just excuses.
I worked within a rigid curriculum provided by the US govt (the FAA), but l was still able to considerably tailor my teaching approach within that framework to attain success with each student.
Even within a rigid framework, if one wants to get results, one can get results. The teacher just needs to be able to adapt their approach. But the teacher has to want to.
If you think your training experience with the FAA is comparable in scope or breadth with public school education for our kids, I think you might need to reconsider.
Whether you like it or not, my post wasn’t “excuses.” It described the conditions many teachers are working with.
No worries, but I am quite familiar with those conditions, as I have worked in a number of calif public schools (including in middle school math classes, including those with many ESL students). So I speak from personal experience.
Yes, as Dan said, it is absolutely up to the teacher to deliver the material. But, as he also said, there is still plenty of flexibility to change their delivery system if it's determined that the students aren't learning it at an acceptable level. And good instructors and teachers do this automatically even if they have to do it within a govt mandated framework.
This is ain't rocket science. It is just decent teaching. Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA. DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook --
what i mean is, it's not up to the teacher to deliver the material. it's up to the teacher whether the student learns the material. ---
Err... what?
It is absolutely up to the teacher to deliver the material. And how to deliver the material. And to decide whether the student learns the material. And to determine to what degree the student learns the materials. And to change their delivery system if it's determined that the students aren't learning it at an acceptable level.
i suspect the better teachers try their best to deliver material in a way that's absorbable by the students. i guess we'll just disagree on this.
Having more that a little experience in this area (teaching varied folks pretty challenging motor skills in high pressure environments), absolutely, decent teachers tailor and adjust the method of teaching to the student's needs. And there is any easy feedback loop to utilize: is the student mastering the skill? No, then the teacher needs to try a different teaching method. Is the student mastering the skill with the new teaching method? No, then the teacher needs to try yet another teaching method. And so on,
That may be ideal, but the basic truth is that this frequently isn’t how schools (public schools in particular) work. Teachers frequently are told what to teach, when, and how. And they are required to move students through the curriculum at a certain pace, in order to get through all the material by the end of a semester or year. It’s nice when a teacher can identify that a student needs a different teaching method and can find the time to deliver that, but many teachers don’t have that skill set or the extra time to offer.
As with any program, if you work it at small scale, you tend to have flexibility to provide a customized product whether that be custom clothing, custom business solutions, or custom learning experiences. If you work on a large scale, and especially when you get government involved, you are going to get a more standardized product. It’s difficult if not impossible to get around that.
Sure. This is commonly said, but really it is just excuses.
I worked within a rigid curriculum provided by the US govt (the FAA), but l was still able to considerably tailor my teaching approach within that framework to attain success with each student.
Even within a rigid framework, if one wants to get results, one can get results. The teacher just needs to be able to adapt their approach. But the teacher has to want to.
If you think your training experience with the FAA is comparable in scope or breadth with public school education for our kids, I think you might need to reconsider.
Whether you like it or not, my post wasn’t “excuses.” It described the conditions many teachers are working with.
No worries, but I am quite familiar with those conditions, as I have worked in a number of calif public schools (including in middle school math classes, including those with many ESL students). So I speak from personal experience.
Yes, as Dan said, it is absolutely up to the teacher to deliver the material. But, as he also said, there is still plenty of flexibility to change their delivery system if it's determined that the students aren't learning it at an acceptable level. And good instructors and teachers do this automatically even if they have to do it within a govt mandated framework.
This is ain't rocket science. It is just decent teaching.
It’s nice that you had that experience in CA. Unfortunately, that’s not the case for many teachers in other places. Slowguy
Actually, calif has one of the most extensive and burdensome curriculum requirements in the nation.
Do you have experience teaching in public schools? Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA. DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook --
Actually, calif has one of the most extensive and burdensome curriculum requirements in the nation.
Do you have experience teaching in public schools?
As usual, you’re unwilling or unable to even consider that anything might be different from your personal experience.
Not sure why you would even spend time in a discussion forum when you openly disdain the very concept of understanding viewpoints that disagree with your own. Slowguy
Not at all. Not sure if you noticed above, but that is why I was asking about your experience.
What is your experience in the public schools? When you were teaching, were you highly constrained by external rules or curricula? Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA. DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook --
Repubs and many conservatives are such snowflakes, they are triggered by basically any bloody word or phraseology that wasn't fully accepted in the usa in the 1950s. .
This is an interesting perspective to me. To be honest I can think of a very few occasions where any of the Reps/Conservatives I know where offended by someone using a word or phrase. I do know MANY reps and conservatives that have gone off the rails because someone decided that they shouldn't use a word or phrase which is entirely different than being triggered by a phrase.
To the contrary the left has been notoriously touchy about the usage of words and being triggered. LGBTQ, LantinX, Xer,Xe are all examples applying only to gender and the list goes far bigger than gender and I've seen many examples of people loosing there grip on life because they were not called by whatever pronoun they desire to be called by. Atheists are generally on the left and many of them shat themselves every time someone wishes them Merry Christmas.
Me? In order for what you say to effect me in anyway I have to respect you. Respect is earned, not given. People who I respect generally respect me and thus tend to not do and say things they know I dislike. People that do not respect me and I do not respect....can say whatever the fuck they want.
That is weird, because the real christians that I know don't even celebrate american christmas anymore, they actively campaign against it, since it is of course originally a pagan holiday.
That is trend that I have been noticing, but I don't live in all of america, just in the midwest. (I gotta say that caveat because other snowflakes here have complained that I do not have work and life experience in every single US state, so therefore my perspectives are inherently geographically limited.) Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA. DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook --
what i mean is, it's not up to the teacher to deliver the material. it's up to the teacher whether the student learns the material. ---
Err... what?
It is absolutely up to the teacher to deliver the material. And how to deliver the material. And to decide whether the student learns the material. And to determine to what degree the student learns the materials. And to change their delivery system if it's determined that the students aren't learning it at an acceptable level.
i suspect the better teachers try their best to deliver material in a way that's absorbable by the students. i guess we'll just disagree on this.
Having more that a little experience in this area (teaching varied folks pretty challenging motor skills in high pressure environments), absolutely, decent teachers tailor and adjust the method of teaching to the student's needs. And there is any easy feedback loop to utilize: is the student mastering the skill? No, then the teacher needs to try a different teaching method. Is the student mastering the skill with the new teaching method? No, then the teacher needs to try yet another teaching method. And so on,
That may be ideal, but the basic truth is that this frequently isn’t how schools (public schools in particular) work. Teachers frequently are told what to teach, when, and how. And they are required to move students through the curriculum at a certain pace, in order to get through all the material by the end of a semester or year. It’s nice when a teacher can identify that a student needs a different teaching method and can find the time to deliver that, but many teachers don’t have that skill set or the extra time to offer.
As with any program, if you work it at small scale, you tend to have flexibility to provide a customized product whether that be custom clothing, custom business solutions, or custom learning experiences. If you work on a large scale, and especially when you get government involved, you are going to get a more standardized product. It’s difficult if not impossible to get around that.
Sure. This is commonly said, but really it is just excuses.
I worked within a rigid curriculum provided by the US govt (the FAA), but l was still able to considerably tailor my teaching approach within that framework to attain success with each student.
Even within a rigid framework, if one wants to get results, one can get results. The teacher just needs to be able to adapt their approach. But the teacher has to want to.
I was literally driven out of my school for not following the "approved teaching methods." The "methods" I was using were called "outdated."
Despite my kids having the highest test scores in the district in only my 3rd year of teaching, I was placed on a performance improvement plan and had it extended twice, and was denied tenure.
No I wasn't showing up late, or hitting on the students, and yes, I could have been a little more diplomatic. The bottom line is the district had a "cutting edge" approach to teaching math, but instead of allowing that plane to crash into the mountain, I did exactly what you suggest. I did what needed to be done to get my kids to learn, and learn they did. And I got driven out for it.
Not every school is the same, but slowguy is right on this. In a lot of schools in a lot of subjects these days, there's not a lot of flexibility. -----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants -----------------------------RunTraining articles here: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485