I fully understand the pro-capital punishment sentiment. I used to be all in favor of it.

I’ve changed my mind on this issue. I just don’t think it’s something the State should be responsible for.

My opposition to it isn’t coming from a mindset of protecting the criminals, btw. It’s comes wanting to protect the people that would be involved in carrying out the executions.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

This is a thread about murder and the death penalty. I'm not sure "lighten up" is an applicable phrase to use.

I think the question is valid. I agree with others who think Windy tends to be deliberately confrontational in his approach.

When discussing death penalty, unless your position is "Never, under any circumstances," then asking where you draw the line and why, is a reasonable line of discussion. Especially when you highlight one particular incident as being past your personal line.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

It is perfectly valid. I just thought people were being too hard on the OP. I just thought he was airing out his revulsion to the description of the crime, not making grand claims about the jurisprudence of capital punishment.

I don't see it as confrontational just being blunt. People generally don't like to be told they're wrong and even moreso don't like to admit it when evidence is presented eviscerating their position.

Then shouldn't have mentioned the exception. Should have said too bad it took so long and so much money was wasted before the fucker died.

And potential innocent people. Though there are many layers of protections, the rate of falsely convicted people is almost certainly non-zero. Maybe very small, but non-zero. And executing an innocent person is horrific.

Tough crowd here.

But life in prison is better? Wouldn't putting them out of their misery be the humane thing to do?

Being alive preserves the chance that exculpatory evidence can re-open the case. E.g. DNA evidence or death-bed confession by the real killer, etc. The Innocence Project has examples.

And second, though prison sucks, I'd *think* I'd prefer to be there than dead. You can read a lot of books, which I'm fine doing. Draw things. You can have a social life to some degree, make friends. Brew up a batch of prison hooch. Watch some TV.

Why would they need protection? Aren't they volunteers? Or have they been ordered to execute with some legal consequences if they refuse?

Even more, people don't like being crapped on by blowhards who always think they're right and others are wrong, and that they have a responsibility to tell everyone how they're wrong.

If you don't see why your posts are taken as confrontational, you might want reread your words above and engage in some self reflection.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

"If we get caught, we're not going to white-collar resort prison. No, no, no. We're going to federal POUND ME IN THE ASS prison."

-Michael Bolton

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I don’t think he should be executed.


Or anyone else.


Me either. Not a power the government should be entrusted with.


I agree with you and Duffy. Capital punishment is not a deterrent to crime. Other factors such as economics, race, mental capacity, parental upbringing often play a big role. That's not even considering the time and money involved in the legal process, the risk that you execute an innocent person, the fact that most people who are killed are poor.


Killing criminals doesn't undo what has been done. I've always found it a little strange that there is an inconsistency in people's views, often from people of religion. They will strongly oppose things like abortion or mercy killing but then support capital punishment. It seems if your view is that you value life, it means all life.


As a person of faith, life/death decisions are not up to us and certainly not up to government.

yup. I dont think the state should have the power to kill its citizens. Life in prison with no possibility of getting out is fine. Too many cases of wrongly convicted people in going to jail. Its not a deterrent, and killing the convicted doesn't bring back the dead. There is no religious basis for my personal opinion.

A few observations...

1.) This is the LR. Confrontation happens. Sometimes it's a key to examining ourselves and learning.
2.) I agree that Windy can be pretty high on the confrontation scale.
3.) Even given #2, I reread Windy's first comment. It's just questioning why this crime is special vis-a-vis many other crimes for which the death penalty can be given. It's the natural, logical question to such an OP IMHO.

Oddly enough I don't have a strong opinion on the death penalty. I can imagine an admirable society implementing it in an appropriate way, and I can imagine an admirable society never implementing it. I could be proud of my fellow citizens under either scenario.

1. Yep.
2. Yep.
3. Yep. I didn't really have an issue with his first comment.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I beleive I acknowledge why they are perceived to be confrontational above.

I realize you said you could imagine, and not there are, admirable societies implementing the DP. But I think you have one hell of an imagination as in practice and application these are your primary practitioners.

Countries with the Most Confirmed Executions in 2018
1. China (1,000s *see above) 5. Iraq (52+)
2. Iran (253+) 6. Egypt (43+)
3. Saudi Arabia (148) 7. United States (25)
4. Vietnam (85+) 8. Japan (15)
Countries with the Most Confirmed Death Sentences in 2018**
1. China (1,000s *see above) 4. Pakistan (250+)
2. Egypt (717+) 5. Bangladesh (229+)
3. Iraq (271+) 6. Malaysia (190)
** Death-sentencing totals unknown for Iran, Saudi Arabia, and North Korea

The bar for the death penalty should be high. Both in evidence of who committed the crime and the nature of the crime but cases like a Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacey, BKT..... murders that were purposefully committed to torture and maximize the victims pain, suffering and terror I would have no problem seeing the death penalty implemented. Dragging someone to death behind a vehicle would qualify for me.

Yeah, I think you are confused. It's not a competition to see who can get the most executions.

No, not a competition. Not sure why you thought it was? But these are the countries currently implementing the DP. So while your admirable society might be theoretically possible, this is the reality and the company that we keep.

Does anyone know the cost difference between life in prison and carrying out death sentence.

It differs from state to state but typically 1.2-1.7 million more cost to tax payer for death sentence. (US figures only) over a fully served life sentence.

I can imagine countries where there is a less stringent legal system this would change (aka found guilty, take em out back and shoot em).

There are four main goals of corrections; retribution, incapacitation, rehabilitation and deterrence. Causing more burden on tax payers isn’t one of them. Is it worth killing them at a cost of 1.2-1.7 million? No.

Watching a doc the other night. Guy is on death row in Texas for a quadruple homicide. He was stopped while high on meth, given a police prepared statement to sign........signed it. Zero actual evidence linking the person to the crime.

Come to find out later that facts the killer should have known were wrong in the confession the police prepared versus the evidence. Didn't matter, just the meth head signed confession.

Then come to find out, police didn't even talk to or put on the stand an employee who had a very violent interaction with a future robber/murderer who did commit lots of local murders. Same location.

So, this guy might wind up dying because he was high on meth and signed a confession.

Oh, and the prosecutor's excuse when asked about the lack of evidence........"God told me that this guy did it and to have faith we were going to execute the right guy someday."

Let that one sink in for a bit. We're not getting it right. Have proven time and again that we can't be trusted as humans to dole out this punishment.

However much sometimes even I think we should dole it out, knowing some of the things we know.........we can't be trusted with it.

You realize that documentary films aren’t sources of news and that they are, at best, fiction by omission?

Do you have any actual news sources that corroborated the claims in the documentary?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb