I had it Dec last year. Backed off a little, used a couple of Nike knee straps. Hit the leg press machine and the hip abductor & hip adductor machines and it was gone with in a month.

Yeah I'm pretty good about working my hips; I've had some IT band issues in the past. No leg presses right now because I'm trying not to do anything that involves bending my knee. I've been doing straight leg raises for my VMO.

That doctor doesnt know what he is talking about. Runners knee is definitely cureable. Quad strengthing drills, an anti-inflamatory, and rest will be your best bet, if you want it to go away permanently.

Runners knee is basically tendonitis of the patella tendon, and although the doctor was incorrect about the remedy, he was correct about that it will not cause you any structural damage, but it will continue to progress till its too painful to run.

Taking time off is difficult, but in your situation its a must, that is, if you want to run pain free.

I went to the doc with the same complaint. However, I went to a D.O., not an M.D. . In my experience, a D.O. looks beyond the primary affliction and finds a connection that may be causing the issue, i.e. a very tight Illiotibial Band and super tight hips. I picked up a foam roller (which was beyond painful on my IT band at first) and rolled it out 2-4 minutes daily. I also statically and actively stretched my hips- Knee feels 10X better, not perfect, yet certainly not the pain I was feeling previously. Best wishes!

Yeah I've pretty much been doing everything you mentioned and no luck. That's what is so frustrating. No real running for almost 4 months. Quad strengthening drills. Stretching. I did 10 days of aleve 400 mg (i think) in the morning, 400 mg in the evening. That was a few months ago though and now I take it only when my knee is particularly achey. I actually just bought some aleve today so I can try another 10 days of it.

Patella Tendonitis is termed 'Jumpers Knee', which is different to runners knee. It requires eccentric knee exercises to remodel the tendon

Runner’s knee – Patellofemoral pain - inflammation and softening of the cartilage under the kneecap, resulting in pain. This requires rest to reduce the inflammation and allow the damaged tissue to heal. Very common and much easier to heal than Jumpers Knee

Rest from anything that irritates it (ie running), ice and anti-inflam. And it really should be healed in less than 3 months. At least that was my experience

Have you had X-rays or MRI done?

My runner's knee turned out to be:
-- Chronic partial tear of MCL
-- ITBS
-- Patellalfemoral Syndrome
-- Early onset of Osteo-Arthritis

Long and short, almost most of my cartilege is worn, and lots of strengthening, stretching, icing and other maintenance needed on a regular basis.

I had an x-ray that was clean. No MRI.

as a doc i can tell you that most docs are useless to you unless you have a serious injury.
and most people don't.
runner's knee is a garbage can diagnosis that has no evidence to back it up.

on big question is how long have you been running and at what volume. most pain in the ass injuries like yours occur in the first few years. it is rare, in my experience, that the body cannot adapt to what you are asking of it. you just need to learn what is serious pain from what is the pain/joy of running.

if you can run and the pain is not getting worse, keep running. the day after is always your test. and if the pain is not getting worse then you are not hurting anything.
strengthening exercises rarely work.
use ice.
try glucosamine supplements.
use traumeel.
use kt tape.
get away from support shoes and orthotics is you can.
try the most cushioned and neutral shoe you can for a while.
use two or three different shoes and rotate.

try some accupuncture.

my two cents

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jjk
http://enduranceanimal.blogspot.com/

Thanks for the thoughts. I've been running for about 7-8 years. Picked it up after rowing for two years in college. I ran a marathon last fall; 2:48 on a very hilly course. Mileage was 60-70 mpw. The knee problems began after a couple months layoff back in the fall after the marathon after I sprained my ankle. Ankle was finally good to run on in the last week of December when I ran 13 out of 14 days trying to run myself back in to shape so I could train for Boston. Was running hilly trails with uneven footing and I just did too much too soon I think. But now I can't get my knee right. And right now it's not pain. It's discomfort that I know is not right. I tend to run through lots of nagging injuries. Every now and then I get something that I think I shouldn't run through. This seems to be one of those things.

As for doctors being useless unless it's a serious injury, I tend to agree. As one who has had PF, ITBS, and now my knee, I find myself going to the doc hoping I've torn something.

Sorry to hear about your frustrating experience with this.
Lets assume that the diagnosis is correct (not a hard diagnosis to make).
Unless I've missed something your focus had been on the knee and since you are not improving I would broaden your view.
There is very good evidence in the sports medicine literature that lower extremity injuries are related to core/gluteal weakness. One thing I do in my practice is video people running and the core weakness is usually apparent as a subtle dropping of the hip on the opposite side of the weight bearing foot. When this is happening it affects everything below the hip and starts to affect the knee.
By incorporating core and gluteal strengthening exercises into your program you can improve PFS.
One other suggestion. Go to the American Medical Society for Sports Medicine, amssm.org and find a local primary care sports doctor to take a look at you.
Best of luck.

I will have to think back... I am almost 100% positive my x-ray was fine as well. I think it showed some of the early onset of osteo-arthritis, but the "you should find low-impact exercise" conversation did not come until after the MRI

9 years later. doubt you are still on the forum. but what ended up happening with your knee problem? I ask bc I am currently dealing with and very frustrated.

Yikes, I'm not sure why the doctor went with such a bleak diagnosis. I've had runner's knee before and it's really just a rest and strengthen situation. I will tell you, that guy that said get a run analysis done was right though. Chances your probably not landing perfectly right, that was certainly my case. I was way overstriding and putting way too much force into my knees, a few adjustments and I'm fine. I only required a few weeks of rest. Definitely don't feel as though this is a death sentence, it's really more of a chance to evaluate your running and then getting back better than ever.

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Team Zoot 2023

Get some rest, evaluate your form, fix what's wrong, and you'll come back better. Runner's knee is pretty common, definitely not a death sentence.

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Team Zoot 2023

wow. didn't expect a reply. Thanks! I have been in PT for 5 weeks (going on 6). No running except short intervals on an antigravity treadmill at 70% (walk/run intervals) this past week. PT plans on putting me on regular treadmill next week to analyze gait/running form. Just a little frustrated bc while there is no acute pain, I still get the occasional (and quite random) bouts of achiness. But I'm hopeful that I will get better soon. Question: how did you get back to running ... a walk/run build up ... or just running with a slow build up? Did you ever experience pain when you returned to running? Thanks.

Well first time I got it 3 weeks prior to the LA marathon and then went a ran the LA marathon, so that was measurably stupid. The second time was in prep for IM texas this year. I find when I try to slow down for really slow runs is when I start to heel strike and that definitely triggers it. I know some people say that at speeds slower than 7:00/mile that heel striking is more efficient, but it definitely triggers runner's knee for me. The first time after the LA marathon I had to take 3 months off. After each 3 weeks I would attempt to run and when I felt the pain, I would stop and walk home. 3 months was brutal, I hadn't had that long off running ever. This year I took 2 weeks off with absolutely no running, still swam and biked. I filmed myself running to look at my gait and I was heel striking and over striding despite aiming for 8:00/miles. Just the slightest focus on posture and foot placement can be the world of difference. I'm back to running after that incident just 1.5 months ago, just did 9 miles the other day and felt great. I think the big thing for me is to do some self checks while out running. If my calves are not engaging and firing, I know I'm not striking correctly. It's such a small change I've made, but it's been the difference between unbearable knee pain and being able to run pain free.

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Team Zoot 2023

Been there. I know your pain. I started by taking time off in lengthening increments (a few weeks, then a few months) and it didn't go away -- came back before long as soon as I started running again. I tried doing PT, but sort of half-assed it, because it was "easy" and "boring" and the PTs didn't really inspire me. Had two surgeries (plica removal, and petellar tendon debridement) and PRP injections. Didn't help. Maybe even made things worse. Still never got up to running more than ~10-15 mpw and the pain would come back. So I threw in the towel, found some new hobbies (racing cars and sailboats), and took nearly a decade away from endurance sports.

Woke up one day and decided I was going to do another Ironman. I found an incredible PT. Worked my ASS OFF (literally) strengthening glutes and hammys, doing core work, and just strengthening muscle imbalances that came with starting long distance running too young (started marathon running at 13).

Finished that Ironman last year and a great season back in the sport. Haven't had any pain since. But I stay on top of the "prehab" doing it at least 2x/week, usually 3x. On track for 70.3 PRs this summer and getting my marathon time down to <3hrs.

So don't despair. Find the PT, not just any PT. Find one who is a genius, who has worked with pro athletes. Get strong like a bull. And don't let some non-sympathetic doctor tell you that you can't do what you love. It's OK to take some time off and REALLY get strong. So strong you jeans don't fit your big strong ass anymore. So strong your wife is like, "wow honey, you used to have no ass and chicken legs, and your ass looks amazing". Like, that strong. Swim a lot, and even if you don't, the fitness will come back much faster than you think. I took 10 years off any meaningful exercise and am hoping to clock in a <3hr marathon after just 18 months of running.

ortho doc here (and triathlete)...and at one point I did have a bit of "runner's knee" which was really a catch all term for a sore knee in a runner without another obvious structural cause, like a ligament injury, meniscus tear, etc.

it will likely take a few weeks if not 4-6 of being consistent with the strength/PT program to settle things down. myofascial release treatments or ASTYM with your PT might be of some help. taking a myofascial release tool to my ITB and really focusing on stretching it out before and after running helped mine to go away....along with making sure I was doing some strengthening a couple times per week. it doesn't have to be anything major, can easily crank through it in 20-30 mins. pay particular attention to the hip abductors and glutes, as well as your quads and hamstrings. strengthening the VMO preferentially is basically physiologically impossible, as it has the same attachment at both ends as all the other quad muscles! check out myrtl hip strengthening....there are reasonable videos on youtube

as for running through it, it's certainly possible if you can tolerate it, but generally if you need to premed with an NSAID (ibuprofen, aleve, etc) it can cause more problems than it fixes, so I would avoid that. focus more on softer surfaces when you do run....a dirt road is better than a concrete sidewalk.....a good treadmill is pretty good as well. hope that helps!

Thanks for your reply. Going on week 7 of PT. Have been building up my run time gradually on an anti gravity treadmill w walk/run intervals. Up to 4 minutes running (3 intervals) without pain while running. What is nagging me is the achy knee I feel afterwards. Sometimes 12 hrs, sometimes 24 or 48 hrs afterwards. No one specific spot, just an achiness on the inner side, sometimes top, sometimes just general achiness Is this normal? Should I continue to progress w my walk/run intervals despite this achiness that I can’t seem to kick? My PT seems to think it’s ok but would like opinions of people who have been through this injury. Thanks!!

Thanks for your response. The thing is, I feel like I have been giving my all you PT. 3 office visits a week. 4 days of dedicated exercises at home. Getting Graston, art and deep tissue massage done on the quads, calf and hamstring and hip and glutes. I can run painless when I’m doing walk/run intervals. PT has progressed me up to 3 minute walk/4 minute run (x3). What concerns me is the achiness I fee after those sessions. Sometimes 12-48 hrs after. No pain, just a general feel
Of achiness. Both doc (had MRI done) and PT say to progress as long as it doesn’t hurt to run. Just wanted opinion of someone who has been through this as to how their recovery went. Thanks!

I think it would be more concerning if it was always aching in the same spot, rather than seemingly all over the knee in the aftermath of running. I think it's probably ok to continue to progress your intervals as long as your pain isn't becoming more frequent or more consistent in one spot. has your PT (or yourself) been doing any myofascial release along with your treatments?

Thanks for your reply. That’s what my PT thinks as well. And he has not done any myofascial but I am seeing a separate PT who works the leg muscles and hip with Graston and myofascial release.

Yep, I’m still around. This post from the past is timely for me, unfortunately, because I just started having some knee issues again this week.

I did eventually get back to consistent running. I did PT for awhile if I remember correctly, but for me the main thing was just a lot of time off from running. And in 2013 I bought my first pair of Hokas and my knees have been more or less okay since then. I was able to train to run a sub 60 10 miler a couple years ago. And last year I ran my first 50K. I’m hoping to run a 40 mile trail race in Colorado in August.

So there definitely is hope. It might just take longer than you’d like.

Hey thanks for the response. Did you wait till there was no achiness at all to start up running again or did you slowly build and find the achiness went away?

Sorry to hear your knee issues may be back. Good luck!