Fixed it for you. We'll see, there have always between a far left and moderate wing of the Democrat party. The last time that the far left candidate won the nomination was 1988. We'll see if Bernie (or Warren) wins this time.... I don't expect any shift in your narrative, regardless.

Traditional Values means a "Not a Kenyan in the White House."

Or a woman in the WH. Unless she's hot.

So generalized as to be meaningless. I struggle to understand how your ATV differ substantially from mine, or most of the people that I know (spanning a wide range of political viewpoints). From what we have seen, many of Trump's policies (to the extent that he has them) aren't consistently "far right" as much as they are incoherent and shortl-sighted. Anyway, I would love to hear about those ATV's, and how your's are so different from the vast number of folks who swung to Dems the last midterm.

Oh really? Which ones are those?

The lying? Shameless self-promotion? Scapegoating minorities? Passing tax cuts that primarily benefit yourself and your rich buddies? Using public office for personal enrichment? Schmoozing w/ dictators? Alienating our allies?

Wait, you're honestly dinging Obama for expanding the nat'l debt? That's fucking priceless ~ I'm sure you must really be up in arms now then since your guy just kicked that train into an even higher gear...

Hiring the best people.

Feel free to educate yourself.....in case you missed it. Try not to get too unhinged.......he's going to be around for a while.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...less-promise-keeping

Still not clear how your "values" are substantially different or better than mine, besides your insistence that they are. "bring back our values that made this country great" is completely meaningless. Name them, and please be specific.

This is the face of the values that makes America great. Get with the program.

https://www.foxnews.com/...nd-tax-fraud-charges

Ever take any US History or Civics classes? Tell us what you learned. Ever hear of "google"? Look up "traditional american values" and get back to us with your report. Not up to me to educate you.

I truly do not care at all about Manafort. You are just as bad about picking straw men. My question to Gregtryin or Gophin is specifically what they mean by "traditional American values" and how their specific viewpoints on that are better, or even different from other folks, including me. Where I live, the Dems and Reps are mostly indistinguishable, and quite "traditional" in their basic approach to policy. What makes their "TAV" so different from so many other folks that I know?

Sorry, cop out, and everyone can see it. I said that way in which you used "TAV" rendered it meaningless, and you proved my point. For the most part, you seem to pick and choose aspects of "TAV" to suit your particular bias. Almost everyone does, but you are too lazy to even attempt to rationalize it. You often select a wildly ideological approach, and quote it with no attachment to any specific issue or any reality. Pick something, anything, and attach it to a real policy debate. I have a couple thousand posts here, pretty much outlining my view on the real world balance of different aspects of my "values". You have nothing but endless generalities.

Relevant. A fundamental of American value is the assumption that people are good and will do their best to lift themselves, their family, their friends, their community, their country.

Okay, I'll humor you. There was a time when you had a chance to get into your preferred college based on your grades and accomplishments. You work hard and you have a chance to reach your goal.....a traditional value.......work hard.....be rewarded. Now, your skin color is a major determination with many universities. Here's another one.....real simple.....we honor the value of life. Now we have a political party that is ok with "having a discussion" to determine if a newborn baby makes it to another day. There you go......take it and run.

Wait, you don't think in the past your skin color was major determination for many universities?

I think you may need a us history class.

Typical response from someone who has nothing to add. You didn't disappoint.

You people have the mentality of kids on a playground. "I don't like what you have to say, so you are a racist!"

Fuck off.

---

If you are a Canuck that engages in gratuitous bashing of the US, you are probably on my Iggy List. So, save your self a bunch of typing a response unless you also feel the need to gratuitously bash me. If so, have fun.
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f___ things up" - Barack Obama, 2020

You people have the mentality of kids on a playground. "I don't like what you have to say, so you are a misogynist!"

Fuck off.

---

If you are a Canuck that engages in gratuitous bashing of the US, you are probably on my Iggy List. So, save your self a bunch of typing a response unless you also feel the need to gratuitously bash me. If so, have fun.
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f___ things up" - Barack Obama, 2020

Here's one even you might understand. Free speech on college campuses.......where is it?

He also is saying that the left wants to kill new born babies. Meaning after birth.

Thanks, I have a meeting, so this will have to be truncated until later. Regarding affirmative action, you are ignoring massive inequality of opportunity, which it is meant to address. There is something about "pursuit of happiness" which calls for efforts to in some ways acknowledge great inequality, especially when it is exacerbated by government policy. I would much prefer affirmative action based on socio-economic factors, until it was shown that opportunity was largely equal (to the extent practical). Of course, if you endlessly ignore obvious patterns regarding inequality of opportunity, affirmative action based on any non-merit criteria is wrong (whether by race or any other factor).

Regarding abortion, we also honor freedom and choice. There is the crux of the issue. I think that abortion should be largely legal AND very rare. I have little problem with limiting late-term abortions. However, the core of the pro-life movement opposes birth control (including RU486), and that is where I split ways with you, I favor freedom in that case. In both instances you listed, you only look at one side of the coin. I am fine examining both, and trying to balance them

Sorry, I just wanted to teach you something about history. Because you apparently have no idea what America was like.

Either you can't comprehend or you purposely avoided the issue. Where did I ever mention abortion? Your wordy answer about abortion completely avoids my example.. Avoid the issue.....typical. No need to answer.....pointless.
And by the way..... we've had "affirmative action".......also known as reverse discrimination for almost 50 years now. When is it time to get back to traditional values and end this discriminatory practice. how long?