Ah, there it is.

Entitlement 101

Do you similarly break rules during races that you deem nonsensical?

lol. It's a shame you weren't able to piece it together on your own.

Lol talk about a thread backfire!!

Many outdoor pools also have 5 and 10 meter towers for the use of diving teams. Would you feel similarly entitled to use them at you whim? Damn rules. So inconvenient.

My 2 cents

1. If someone stalks you on instagram, ignore it....just go and keep diving. They can talk to you on the pool deck but they can't stalk you on your personal channel. Stalking on the personal channel is not an official communication. I say you have carte blanche to keep diving as no one from the pool talked to you on the pool deck. They have no idea if instagram you is swimmer you.
2. Having said that, probably best to dive when the blue cap crew does not want to get wet. The blue cap crew ALSO have the option to not be right up against the rope of the lane that you are swimming in. I have no clue why they keep moving back and back away from their instructor until I almost smack my arm on their heads as I do a 100 fly and someone is coming down the lane the other way....but I digresss...generally I am trying to avoid doing fly when the blue cap crew is in the next lane.
3. Once you get officially asked on the pool deck ask why. It is unclear if there are or are not "no diving signs". Is it no diving in the shallow end only or everywhere? Or does a purchase of a masters membership allow those swimmers to dive outside of masters in the deep end? You said other people dive too?

Thank you for lending a voice of understanding. Management should be conveying the message and not via social media. This is a big reason I was so put off. It wasn’t so much the message but the delivery was all wrong. How do I know who she spoke to and what was said? Such communication really needs to be conveyed on the pool deck by someone that’s in charge at the time of incident. I think she knew it wasn’t her place so she didn’t go there.

As well, I’m totally with you on the grey hairs creeping toward the lane ropes. They actually were repeatedly crossing my line and staring me down the day before, looking at me as if to say “Try me”. I’m always aware and try to be polite. Not these folks. They don’t share. It’s their pool for those that don’t know. These are the folks with entitlement issues.

Finally I agree with asking why? I’m assuming the response would be because it’s posted. Lol. That’s code for nobody really knows and it’s not enforced. The other obvious would be liability. They allow 24 hour unguarded lap swimming so I’d say they’re assuming a lot of liability all over the place in many areas.

The masters coach doesn’t know this woman and thinks she’s nuts.

Thanks again for seeing this from a non-judgemental perspective and from someone that’s just there to swim.

quote devashish_paul]My 2 cents

1. If someone stalks you on instagram, ignore it....just go and keep diving. They can talk to you on the pool deck butt they can't stalk you on your personal channel. Stalking on the personal channel is not an official communication. I say you have carte blanche to keep diving as no one from the pool talked to you on the pool deck. They have no idea if instagram you is swimmer you.
2. Having said that, probably best to dive when the blue cap crew does not want to get wet. The blue cap crew ALSO have the option to not be right up against the rope of the lane that you are swimming in. I have no clue why they keep moving back and back away from their instructor until I almost smack my arm on their heads as I do a 100 fly and someone is coming down the lane the other way....but I digresss...generally I am trying to avoid doing fly when the blue cap crew is in the next lane.
3. Once you get officially asked on the pool deck ask why. It is unclear if there are or are not "no diving signs". Is it no diving in the shallow end only or everywhere? Or does a purchase of a masters membership allow those swimmers to dive outside of masters in the deep end? You said other people dive too?

[/quote]

The blue hairs at my club steal an extra lane so they have more room. I do swim butterfly and do some pulling right next to them. My goal is to be out of there by 9am when their class starts so I have not been in a recent conflict. You should see the stink eye the guy moving the lane line gives me haha and he is typically wearing a hat he is trying to keep dry.

I am definitely thinking to do more sprints from the blocks for training in 2019 and also some underwater sets to improve my turns. My club does not prohibit diving but I’m not sure about using the blocks but no lifeguard on duty. This is a very under practiced area neglected by older swimmers. When the college swimmers come home and train on their own they all seem to do underwater sets of some kind.

As far as the club rules on diving. I would go straight to management for clarification though I don’t think you need to throw the aqua aerobic lady under the bus. Tell them you are a competitive masters swimmer and offer to avoid diving in front of the aqua classes and only in the deep water lane etc. educate them that starts and turns are actually an important part of practice. Suspect you won’t get anywhere but you might gain an understanding that it will tolerated if no further complaints are received

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Hey, I THINK the issue is privileges granted vs rules. At some point, if everyone is diving and no rules enforced that privilege becomes the norm for everyone. That's like everyone on our highway speeding at 110-120 kph. Either enforce it for everyone or the rule may as well no exist. Now, if you are one of many divers, then they can say, "It's the rules" at which point you can say, "fine, I won't dive, but no one does...the moment I see no enforcement of diving on others, then it's open season on diving...". They can turn around and say, "No we can enforce it on any one we want" (and they will be correct, but at least you ask them to enforce it on everyone)

I have a ridiculous body was 6'3" wingspan on my 5'6" body. I have neck and shoulder limitations on one side so my right arm swings wide on freestyle. Because of this, I swim a bit in from the lane so as not to smack people in the next lane. But this old dude complained about me and they made a "rule" that I can't swim with paddles. Its a rule for one person. I fought it but this old dude basically hates me and he'll come up with another and another and another thing that he does not like about me and keep complaining (I think he hates it when I swim fly, but what what about the guys who do wide breast stroke under water in the fast lane....same thing less visible). We're both regulars at the pool so I figure itis easier to co exist than fight it. So I don't use the paddles at this pool.....well guess what, I went to another city pool when a swim meet was happening at ours and since we live in a similar part of town, this guy was there at the VERY SAME TIME. Well I was at the other pool using my paddles, and he comes over and says, "I am going to complain about you"....WTF....I was in a solo lane minding my business and did not even come near him and he wants to transpose his 'victory rule' from Pool A to Pool B. I asked him to go ahead and complain to the guards. I ended up doing a nice long 6000m swim with 3000m with paddles (because I COULD at this pool), and then I go to the lifeguard afterwards and ask if the old dude complain and she responds, "Swimmers are allowed to use paddles....you're good...we sent him away".

In any case, all that to say, its about co existence and working with the management. It's a shared space, so work around all these people. And I disagree wtih people saying you should not diving in 6 foot deep water. Should be totally safe given that you know what you are doing.

Also the instagram stalking is uncallled for. It does not count as any notification.

So you can keep diving but do it in a very accommodating manner when it does not create problems for others. Do your diving when others are diving and cannonballing too. Do your diving in a safe manner that accommodates others (aside form the generation of waves, but breast stroke, and fly and even flip turns at the wall when people are resting create waves). Just do your diving when you are not causing trouble and while others are doing the same or worse.

Wait for the moment that you are singled out and summoned by management and then have a reasonable calm discussion with them. Point out what is going on. A reasonable discussion should follow. If everyone gets banned from diving because of it (including you), well at least this was done in a methodical, well thought out reasonable way that is also legal (vs the backchannel instagram stalking) and now the rule is being appied to all.

Thanks again. I agree it’s about peaceful coexistence. The I’m right and you’re wrong attitude is counterproductive. I was just doing my thing. I did not interfere with anyone or cause any problems. I was quietly going about my business. There will always be people that try to impose their will to prove they are right, like the paddle guy. He should just mind his own business. This woman is not a life guard, so she shouldn’t be trying to assume that role. She is there to teach an exercise class. Nothing more and nothing less. She has no more power to enforce pool rules than any of the members. Again, she’s not a guard or manager. She can complain and that’s about it. It says more about her than me the way she acted. When I walked right past her on the pool deck to do my second round of dives, I noticed she wouldn’t make eye contact. She looked down purposely. I thought it was odd at the time, but I suppose she was pissed.


Hey, I THINK the issue is privileges granted vs rules. At some point, if everyone is diving and no rules enforced that privilege becomes the norm for everyone. That's like everyone on our highway speeding at 110-120 kph. Either enforce it for everyone or the rule may as well no exist. Now, if you are one of many divers, then they can say, "It's the rules" at which point you can say, "fine, I won't dive, but no one does...the moment I see no enforcement of diving on others, then it's open season on diving...". They can turn around and say, "No we can enforce it on any one we want" (and they will be correct, but at least you ask them to enforce it on everyone)

I have a ridiculous body was 6'3" wingspan on my 5'6" body. I have neck and shoulder limitations on one side so my right arm swings wide on freestyle. Because of this, I swim a bit in from the lane so as not to smack people in the next lane. But this old dude complained about me and they made a "rule" that I can't swim with paddles. Its a rule for one person. I fought it but this old dude basically hates me and he'll come up with another and another and another thing that he does not like about me and keep complaining (I think he hates it when I swim fly, but what what about the guys who do wide breast stroke under water in the fast lane....same thing less visible). We're both regulars at the pool so I figure itis easier to co exist than fight it. So I don't use the paddles at this pool.....well guess what, I went to another city pool when a swim meet was happening at ours and since we live in a similar part of town, this guy was there at the VERY SAME TIME. Well I was at the other pool using my paddles, and he comes over and says, "I am going to complain about you"....WTF....I was in a solo lane minding my business and did not even come near him and he wants to transpose his 'victory rule' from Pool A to Pool B. I asked him to go ahead and complain to the guards. I ended up doing a nice long 6000m swim with 3000m with paddles (because I COULD at this pool), and then I go to the lifeguard afterwards and ask if the old dude complain and she responds, "Swimmers are allowed to use paddles....you're good...we sent him away".

In any case, all that to say, its about co existence and working with the management. It's a shared space, so work around all these people. And I disagree wtih people saying you should not diving in 6 foot deep water. Should be totally safe given that you know what you are doing.[/quote]

Good grief. The OP is being insanely obtuse about this whole ordeal. There are signs plastered all over the building.. it's pretty cut and dry.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I learned basic etiquette in masters, since it teaches you how to share the pool/lanes. I plan to avoid this woman and will try to be sensible and respectful around her and her class. She obviously took exception to me. OTOH, if I’m there early among other “swimmers” then game on, provided there’s communication with lane/pool mates and nobody takes issue.

I hate to say this, but I love these threads. I bet when you hit the send button, you figured all these like minded sports people would jump on your side, and everyone could skewer this gal. Instead you get ripped a new one!!! The one just before you was a guy buying a bike grey market from another country/continent, and then complaining about customer service!!!

Sorry, not meaning to pile on, I actually sympathize with you, I hate it when I get in and the pool, and it is full of lily pads floating all around, not wanting to get wet.. But big lesson here is, just ask folks that are directly impacted by something that is out of the ordinary, then there should be no issues, unless someone is a backstabber, in which case you would have had a slam dunk!!!

ripple wrote:

Good grief. The OP is being insanely obtuse about this whole ordeal. There are signs plastered all over the building.. it's pretty cut and dry.

Here are the pieces that I saw but may have missed some things.

1. Lots of people are diving and doing cannonballs by the account of the OP. The rule may as well not exist, or minimally its not cut and dry anymore if the people running the pool allow for it to happen.
2. The OP seems to be doing this respectfully (I think) away form other swimmers). He is not hurting anyone other than himself if he does a 6 foot 1 inch deep dive, which he seems to be competent enough to not do.
3. Even if this is a rule, this woman has no place enforcing it. She is more than welcome to complain to management about the user in question who can then talk to the user, or she can approach the user directly on the pool deck (ideally with other people around who are witnesses) and suggest that he does not dive. At this point the OP can agree and not dive or say that he would like to continue but will do it respectfully and not cause safety or comfort problems for people in his lane (there is no way he effects people in other lanes)
4. The woman stalking him on instagram is borderline creepy. If it is a male aqua aerobics instructor stalking out a female masters swimmer diving to "lay down the law" that would just not be acceptable
5. No one from management has told the OP he cannot dive any more or any less than other users.

I'd personally keep diving, being respectful and away from others until a management discussion happens. An instagag stalk order mean anything yet.

I wasn’t really looking for moral support, but rather thought it was an interesting story that would generate a lot of discussion and different views. I could do without personal jabs from some posters.

Monty, I came to the side of the OP, (obviously without both sides of the story like the rest of you), because I am not supportive in general of nonuniform application of rules and I am certainly not supportive of random pool users stalking other pool users over the internet.

The real story is that the aqua ladies didn't like your dives getting their hair wet. At my pool, they don't even like vigorous kicking. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Ehhh.. I don't know dev. It looks pretty clear. Signs up, class member complains, and instructor tells him to stop diving next time. The only area I actually don't like is she shul have said something to him right there at the pool and then maybe told management too to cover her own butt.

I'm sure mwanner31 didn't mean anything but he's got to just give it up at this point. At the end of the day the signs say no diving. Case closed. Don't look for grey areas out of something so obviously black and white.

Dev, does that mean that if I get dinged for doing 110 in a 100 zone, I’ll get it thrown out because other people were doing 115 and NOT getting tickets?

It’s the same argument.

Bottom line, he was violating the regs and was told to cease and desist. OP just has to quit whining about it and either stop or make arrangements with the pool.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I think the best passive aggressive response here is to replace the diving with cannonballs.

Moreover, the old folks that tend to join the aqua trim/aerobics classes happen to actually vote en masse in the local elections, so the municipal powers that be are likely to listen to them. Consider yourself warned or else they'll make the pool manager turn the heaters way the f.ck up up to soothe their arthritis and straight up remove the blocks because they are the core clientele and by god they hate to be splashed on.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

Thankfully, the core clientele of my main pool are competitive teams, whether club teams, masters, water polo, synchro or diving. There are a couple of aquacize classes a day, but they aren’t the ones keeeping the lights on.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

It’s what’s wrong with this world. No one wants to confront anyone anymore in public. It’s so much easier to be tough with people when they aren’t standing in front of you. I wouldn’t call that being nice.

Sounds to me like it “disturbed” the old ladies normal routine so they complained and you got singled out. I’d try it next time see what happens. ;)

What you're missing is that most pools have insurance policies that only cover diving when under the supervision of an instructor. Therefore diving during a swin meet or practice is ok, diving during lap swim isn't.

I was just about to quote post #23, the only other one to mention the insurance issue.

What you said warrants being at the top of a page.