50/42 is about the same as 38/32. 50/10 is higher than 53/11. If he is complaining about non optimal cadence being an issue I could understand it but it sounds like he is complaining about range which is just simply not accurate.

Whilst I stood on the side of a steep section of road in deepest Yorkshire, lucky enough to be over there to see the race I couldn’t help but notice the Aqua Blue guys struggling. Not because they didn’t have the gears, as you say 50x42 should get you up anything, but with the change in grades every gear change was such a huge jump that the rider faultered.

I love 1x, I use it on every bike. I’ve climbed mountains on it no problem. But if I have to change pace fast the jumps are just too great. There is no subtlety, no feathering of gears, just clunk up and down.
Find the perfect gear for the grade and you’re golden. Miss it and you’re cooked.

I was thinking of starting a similar thread now that some of the details of the Aqua Blue collapse are starting to come out. It certainly seems as though the bikes were the number one issue that precipitated the collapse.

There was an interview with Rick Delaney, the team owner, on The Cycling Podcast at the end of last week where he gives a lengthy account of his side of the story. Whilst he seems like a bit of a difficult character, you can feel the frustration in his voice as he recounts some of the difficulties he experienced.

As a brief overview, he blames the unreliability of the bikes, lack of mechanical support from 3T and non-delivery of a 2x model that they were promised as the main reasons for their failing relationship with 3T. They were locked into a 3 year contract with them, coming under pressure from riders about the situation and tried to force through the merger with Veranda-Willems Crelan purely as a way of getting out of their contract obligations with 3T; when these fell apart he saw that there was no other option but to fold.

He doesn't stop there though, he takes aim at the UCI, ASO, RCS and a host of others describing the administration of the sport as "rotten to the core". If you're interested in the internal workings of a pro-team then it's a really interesting listen.

It seems ridiculous to think that one bad bike can bring down a whole team, but that literally seems to be the case when combined with some volatile management!

Well someone Must have make the division to with 3T ?

How did they evaulate the bikes before maling sich a bold move ?

Or was it financially based ?

The buck must stop somewhere.

No invitations to Grand Tours or Classics hardly helps.

The hidden collaspe may also hint to cashflow problems and running out of money.

Sounds a bit too easy to pile the blame on all the bikes.

In the interview they discuss the financial issues of the team as well as their negotiations with race organisers and sure, it seems as though there were difficulties there too. He mentioned having to personally bankroll entry fees into races and didn't see the point in continuing that when neither the staff nor the riders had confidence in the equipment that they were using.

As I mentioned, from the interview Rick Delaney seems like a very difficult and volatile character and you very much get the impression that you're only getting one side of the story. No doubt the (mis)management of the team lead to the rapid and drastic collapse but as he would have you believe, the fundamental issue behind the whole thing was the bikes that they were given.

1x didn’t stop Warbasse from winning the US Pro road race or stage of Tour de Swiss.

Delaney issued a press release that Aqua Blue was merging with Sniper Cycling, then walked it back when Sniper denied it. It was then announced the team was folding days before it was to race the Tour of Britain, which they pulled out of. The news came out via Twitter, which is how riders and staff (who are now hosed) also found out.

I’m not advocating one way or another for 1x in this scenario but not sure how much his comments are worth.

Everything you're writing seems to indicate the fundamental issue was bad management, except your conclusion. :)

I think they were still on Ridley’s when Warbasse won.

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Alex Arman

Strava

Again, this underscore my inability to understand why pros—who need the results—are the lab rats for recreationally riding world.

Well shit. They forgot to put brakes on the things. No wonder they're having problems with hilly races.

Well if you, like Sky, can find a friendly media magnate to fund your team to the tune of $20M per year (or whatever it is) no questions asked - that provides you the leverage to pick your equipment sponsors per your own criteria.

If you're cobbling together a team from a collection of 2nd-tier sponsors and putting your entry fees on your own credit card, you are your sponsor's bitch. And the sponsor makes money from the recreationally riding world.

Jelly Belly gone. UHC gone. BMC gone. Silber Pro Cycling gone. Aqua Blue Sport gone. I'm not even sure I got all of them there.

It's really really hard keeping a pro bike racing team together. If you want to put together a team and only allow ST-approved equipment then please do. The sport needs you.

And yet Sky still started out with Pinarellos, which at the time were heavy and unaero. Took several years for them to provide a good bike but the money obviously made up for it.



One Pro in the UK also folding. Although the management will be fine as they're going to switch to being a womens team as it's cheaper.

Didn't know UHC and One Pro have also gone.

UCI need to take a good look at cycling finances.

http://inrng.com/2018/08/aqua-blues/

if you think the dogmas that Sky started racing on way back in 2012 were a bad bike then you've got another thing coming.

They may not have been 'aero' but neither were many of their competitors back then. Besides, They make a good bike that just works, has good geometry and handling, and as a pro team, have good support from your sponsors.

Unlike what slowtwitch will have you think it's the legs that win the races, not the bikes. if the 3T were 2X I'm pretty sure it would have been fine.

They were un-aero, like everyone in those days, but also quite heavy. IIRC, Orbea and Pinarello were the heaviest framesets in the ProTour at the time. Sky would struggle to get their bigger riders on weight-limit bikes (wasn't it like 1200g for the frame alone?) while competitors were easily meeting the weight limit.

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ZONE3 - We Last Longer

This.

How does somebody get to be a pro cyclist without understanding gear ratios? This Blythe guy shows that fast does not fix stupid.

Mechanical support from 3T, I can't speak to, and maybe that's a big part of their issue, but that has nothing to do with a 1x drivetrain or with this bike in particular. For what it's worth, I've had the bike since its release with no issues, as have two of my friends. I have run 46T in front and 10-42 in back, which is essentially equivalent to 52-36 and 11-28, which is what I run on a 2x bike. I finally have the 9-32, which I'll run with a 40 up front -- similar range.

I feel like we've had this conversation before.

Silber is not dead yet. Still racing and looking for a sponsor for 2019.

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First of all, as trail quotes and then completely fails to acknowledge (and as such I've highlighted above) I said "as he [Rick Delaney] would have you believe, the fundamental issue behind the whole thing was the bikes"; I'm not personally making any sweeping conclusions here!

Secondly, have either of you listened to Delaney's interview? I've put a link below, the Aqua Blue Sport section starts at around 20 mins in. Delaney's problems with 3T were much broader than being stuck with a 1x drivetrain.

https://audioboom.com/...vuelta-a-espana-2018

No, but I will. Thanks for the link. But that ignorance -- what that guy is saying about gearing -- is going to be hard to overcome. News flash. The "10 cassette" with a 50T front is a bigger big gear than Rob Gray could even manage to brag about pushing on his Dimond. Which is to say, I don't even think they make a ring that big?

I fell like chain drops could be fixed by running a chain guide. Obviously that hurts aero, but....

Besides chain drops, I think the biggest issue with 1x would be the jumps between gearing. Sure 46 w/ 10-42 high and low maybe the same as 52/36 with 11-28. But your missing a bunch of gradual steps between. It would suck racing 150 miles with mountains and having 15-20 rpm jumps between gears.

I did just now. And I have sympathy for the guy. It's hard to listen to because he's basically melting down. As I noted above, it's brutal putting together a pro cycling team without a rock-solid title sponsor who has your back. But is he really the victim of everyone? 3T, ASO, UCI, Sniper. Or did he just foolishly enter into a 3-year contract without knowing what he was getting in to? Does Aqua Blue Sport really deserve Giro and Tour entries? There were 4 pro conti teams in each. Has Aqua really established itself to be in the upper echelon of pro conti? It really doesn't appear that it has. So the conclusion is that the ASO and UCI are liars because they said "positive things" about his team earlier?

Then when asked about mechanical problems he tells the interviewer to "go look at the social media of my mechanics." That's insulting. If you're going to make a claim about the mechanical issues with your supplier, do so transparently and professionally. Don't glibly wave at social media. And if the mechanics were undermining the sponsor during the season, that's dumb too. If those problems were really going on you document and track them. Document every problem with pictures and details. Be specific. And every conversation with 3T. So you can make a strong technical case to the 3T, the media, etc. And provide value to the public about the what happens to the Strada and Force 1X when raced really hard. Don't just have riders and mechanics throw insults up on social media, half of which is pulled. Also don't announce team mergers unless you know what's really going on.

This guy just seems in over his head, and flailing. Everyone's out to get him. Maybe some of it legit. I'm sure 3T has a side to this story. Only they're not using social media and podcasts to tell it. Which is probably the right thing at the moment.

This guy seems like he'd be a passionate leader. But it seems like he needs a cold-hearted, bureaucratic business operations guy as his wingman.

Blaming the bike? Yeah, no. Maybe a small part, but... no.

Pro cycling is FUBAR.

That said, 1x is still a bad idea for road and TT bikes. Why would one want to go back to the giant gear gaps of decades ago?
The marginal aero gains aren't worth much and the simplicity argument .. meh.

1x is great for gravel, CX and MTB where dropped front chains are more of an issue.

I definitely would ride a Strada Due, but no way would I want the original.

I liked your points about the mechanics whining on social media and remember seeing some of that. A silly one was something about a mechanic or team rep whining about switching out chainrings so often for optimal gearing.

Do you know if they ended up running clinchers full time like they planned? Not having to fart around with tubulars seems like a fantastic trade for occasionally swapping a chainring on the outside of the spider. Half the derailleurs, the hydro brakes should basically be set-and-forget, no tubulars, but the occasional chainring swap? A few different wheels around should take care of swapping cassettes. Sounds like you would have some bored mechanics.

I thought drivetrain loss on an 11t was pretty silly. Much less running a freaking 10t or 9t cog.

For sure with a tail wind a breakaway would need the 10t. Running that vs running a 12t on another bike, yeah, that's watts and KJ's wasted. Just conjecture here, but a thought to be had I guess.

IMHO, they should have had the provision for an electronic FD that gets removed for flatter stages where a long break or sprint finish is inevitable. Then you can toss it and the other crank back on for hilly or mountain stages and have your 2x back.

It takes no time at all to swap a crank out.