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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [Vincible] [ In reply to ]
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If there is anything beyond basic turns, it needs to be well marked and covered in the athletes briefing.//

Actually, it doesnt matter the difficulty of a course. It should be able to be followed by anyone seeing it for the first time on race day, no excuse to be otherwise. Trying to put it on an athlete is just a major cop out. And someone suggesting follow your GPS, that is just out there beyond any reason, stupid actually...
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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [Vincible] [ In reply to ]
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I got DQ’d at Boulder yesterday for body surfing on the creek to gain an advantage. Seems to just be really resourceful, rather than cheating
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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [Vincible] [ In reply to ]
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I think its bs to use the "athlete's responsibility" line in defense of poor race management. This was not the case at IMB. The maps were very self explanatory. I could see if an athlete didnt look at the maps at all before the race how they might be a little confused at that one spot, but it was well marked with tons of volunteers shouting directions. Sure you might not have a GPS but you cant tell if you're at mile 55 or 69? Please. I was hardly conscious on the "run" and never was confused on that course either.

I thought the RD did a great job, especially given the awful weather. I've been to other WTC races I thought were shitshows, this was the opposite of that. Also, the course was well marshalled, kudos.

Edit: The finish was like 2 miles after the mile 25 marker, that's my only gripe
Last edited by: ntc: Jun 11, 18 21:01
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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:
I wasn't expecting a pull. It just says a lot about the OP. And some other posters.

What exactly does it say “a lot” about me other than I was curious? I was genuinely happy when I saw her name as 1st if only b/c we were FB friends. Confused when it was gone. That is all.

Most other friends on FB who raced races yesterday posted something. I had a friend at 70.3 Madison crash on the bike and DNF. She finally posted today what happened.

You’re reading way too much into what you think our intentions are.

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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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The course was definitely marked adequately as others have stated. I am not entirely sure how people were getting so confused on the course. Between the signs, giant markings on the road, and people at literally every turn I’m just by sure how a mistake was made. When I was finishing the bike and dismounting at T2 a gentleman was standing there talking to volunteers asking if he was at the turnaround to start the second loop. I still haven’t figured out how he ended up at the point with the course setup.
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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [Greatzaa] [ In reply to ]
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Greatzaa wrote:
Trying to infer a pattern of misconduct because she was DQ'd for speeding at Oceanside is a stretch. If you could point to several course cutting issues, you might have a point, but you cannot.

How does one get DQ'd for speeding, while racing?
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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [alexer03] [ In reply to ]
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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [irontri] [ In reply to ]
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Well I'm a local athlete and Knew the course inside and out and cranking thru on 2nd lap was directed to turn right. I was all alone at this point I questioned the person directing me and was convinced I needed to turn. I continued up the first climb to where the pimp was before I realized I was right. accepted MY mistake by not doing what I knew was right. so I backtracked because I refuse to be DQ'd. added a significant amount of mileage to my ride. Thankful for all the volunteers out there and not blaming anyone but me.


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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [pmcdc] [ In reply to ]
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pmcdc wrote:


i have no knowledge of how the course was. but... if you had a garmin device? we're orienteers now?

the really good RDs, when you ask them, "what's the best method for telling racers there's a turn? approaching signs and cones? chalk marks on the road? or a volunteer yelling and pointing the direction?" that good RD invariably says, "yes!" all 3. you throw the kitchen sink at the athletes.
=============================================================================
this was my reaction, too: having any such device cannot be requisite. not even a bike mileage computer---which is good, since i've had one die on me a couple of times in races.
on a positive note, i've never had such good warning of a turn, etc. as i did in miamiman last november. huge signs, people yelling, markers on the ground: they had it all, big, well done.
peggy

I was there and agree it was well marked. And yet there were still people who missed a turn.
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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
thetrilife wrote:
The out and back before starting lap 2 of the bike was pretty self explanatory if you briefly looked over the course beforehand and had a garmin device so you knew which mile marker you were at. The signs clearly said “right for mike 70” or “straight for mile 56.”

I thought the run course was pretty easy to follow as well.

I’d expect top age groupers to have a working knowledge of the course and a gps unit to track their distance. Mistakes do happen and it’s easy to lose focus in the race but I thought the course was pretty easy to follow if you were mindful and paying attention.

i have no knowledge of how the course was. but... if you had a garmin device? we're orienteers now?

the really good RDs, when you ask them, "what's the best method for telling racers there's a turn? approaching signs and cones? chalk marks on the road? or a volunteer yelling and pointing the direction?" that good RD invariably says, "yes!" all 3. you throw the kitchen sink at the athletes.

i raced this weekend. i had no garmin device. fortunately there were signs, cones, chalk, and volunteers. this old guy (me) needed them all.

I'm sure this was not intentional. But this point in the course was extremely clear. I was coned out. There were orange labels and arrows on the ground describing which way to go and several volunteers yelling instructions. You do not need a gps to know if you are at mile 55 or 70. They have mile marker signs every 10 miles.

Your brain had to be switched off to make this mistake

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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [irontri] [ In reply to ]
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1. To the person who suggested IM Boulder was a soft race, you’re a righteous jerk. Thanks for discrediting all those who finished - especially those with phenomenal performances - in tough conditions. For context, RD said registrations were up ~40% this year, the most in three years. There were a lot of stud athletes competing in that lot.
2. I’ll preface this by saying I thought the race was well organized, the RD did a bang up job of accommodating for the conditions and I’d do one of his races again. Here’s the bike course a turn-by-turn instrux; it’s not explicit what the process is after you get back on diagonal hwy and continue to lap 2: http://m.ironman.com/~/media/314f58b7ff204d8e81f34e07b44a6195/ironman%20boulder%20bike%20course%20map%202018%201.pdf I also attended an athlete briefing and this wasn’t clearly articulated IMO, for something that could potentially be wildly confusing on race day. I was aware only bc I watched several videos where RD was interviewed about dynamics of new course.
3. I counted 8-9 DQs in my AG, never seen that before. Also had a friend who turned onto second loop prematurely and - upon realizing his mistake - turned around and added mileage to avoid course-cutting. I also saw a lot of confused athletes when I passed that point of the course despite the markings and helpful volunteers. In the midst of race speed and focus, and potentially disorienting conditions, I can see how competitors could make this error. And it seems a lot did.

The run map was also a bit mystifying but the markings on the ground were super-clear. I’m more puzzled by those who cut the run course.
Last edited by: milkmaid1982: Jun 12, 18 8:26
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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [milkmaid1982] [ In reply to ]
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milkmaid1982 wrote:
1. To the person who suggested IM Boulder was a soft race, you’re a righteous jerk. Thanks for discrediting all those who finished - especially those with phenomenal performances - in tough conditions. For context, RD said registrations were up ~40% this year, the most in three years. There were a lot of stud athletes competing in that lot.

righteous jerk? seems a bit much. but you're right, my hyperbole may have been a knee jerk reaction to the lambasting happening in this thread prior to my original response. there were plenty of phenomenal performances. just finishing was a phenomenal performance. but IM Boulder is not the same as IM Kona, or a regional championship.
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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
thetrilife wrote:
The out and back before starting lap 2 of the bike was pretty self explanatory if you briefly looked over the course beforehand and had a garmin device so you knew which mile marker you were at. The signs clearly said “right for mike 70” or “straight for mile 56.”

I thought the run course was pretty easy to follow as well.

I’d expect top age groupers to have a working knowledge of the course and a gps unit to track their distance. Mistakes do happen and it’s easy to lose focus in the race but I thought the course was pretty easy to follow if you were mindful and paying attention.


i have no knowledge of how the course was. but... if you had a garmin device? we're orienteers now?

the really good RDs, when you ask them, "what's the best method for telling racers there's a turn? approaching signs and cones? chalk marks on the road? or a volunteer yelling and pointing the direction?" that good RD invariably says, "yes!" all 3. you throw the kitchen sink at the athletes.

i raced this weekend. i had no garmin device. fortunately there were signs, cones, chalk, and volunteers. this old guy (me) needed them all.

Yes, there were all of those. Signs, chalk, cones, and plenty of volunteers. As I mentioned, the signs and chalk said "straight for mile 56" and "Mile 70 turn right." It's common sense that you have to go through mile 56 before you get to mile 70. A gps device wasn't necessary but I always find it helpful to glance at as verification of where I am in case "race brain" takes over.

The point is that with a little bit of pre-emptive planning it was pretty easy to follow. I can see how it would be confusing if you hadn't looked at the course at all beforehand but if you had... I don't think it was too difficult. I had a few very inexperienced athletes racing as well and because we briefly talked about it and looked at the course maps ahead of time, they all made it through without any difficulty.

Mark Saroni
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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [thetrilife] [ In reply to ]
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At the potentially confusing spot of the 56/70 mile deviations, there were also multiple volunteers including one with a megaphone shouting instructions. I saw one confused athlete slow down to ask the guy with the megaphone to clarify, which he gladly did. If anyone was in doubt, there would have been ample opportunity to slow down briefly to gain clarification, IMO.
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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
pmcdc wrote:


i have no knowledge of how the course was. but... if you had a garmin device? we're orienteers now?

the really good RDs, when you ask them, "what's the best method for telling racers there's a turn? approaching signs and cones? chalk marks on the road? or a volunteer yelling and pointing the direction?" that good RD invariably says, "yes!" all 3. you throw the kitchen sink at the athletes.
=============================================================================
this was my reaction, too: having any such device cannot be requisite. not even a bike mileage computer---which is good, since i've had one die on me a couple of times in races.
on a positive note, i've never had such good warning of a turn, etc. as i did in miamiman last november. huge signs, people yelling, markers on the ground: they had it all, big, well done.
peggy


I was there and agree it was well marked. And yet there were still people who missed a turn.

Yes, I missed a turn that cost me a podium finish. My mistake but very embarrassing.....
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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
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Hmm, sorry about that, but I don't think you were alone. Folks missed the 2nd loop. They missed the extension rectangle after the two primary loops. They missed that little jig jag through a school parking lot where the long course encountered the oly turn around.

Full disclosure - I missed a turn at St Anthony's one year when I was misdirected along with several other riders by course volunteers. Within 2 miles I knew we had gone the wrong way and were screwed. I could go back and add 4+ miles on the oly with no chance of recovery or continue and DQ myself. I did the latter. Very frustrating, and yeah, I should have known the course and disregarded the volunteer.
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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [scca_ita] [ In reply to ]
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scca_ita wrote:
Also happened to the 2nd place guy in 50-54..... My friend who raced said that there was a confusing out and back about mile 75 that people went straight on.....

That would be world class marathoner Silvio Guerra (who was 9:38 time to Bob McRae's 9:17)...2nd overall in the 103rd Boston Marathon in 2:10.

I have a first hand description: "There was in fact a spot that had 3 directions...so at mile 56 you went straight, u-turn, then another u-turn...when you got back to that corner it was straight to finish & you went past the fire station back to the Rez."

I'm going to assume here...sounds like the Firestation road was the cluster you know what in all this. The entry/repeat/exit for the bike course.
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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [Once-a-miler] [ In reply to ]
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Ironman Boulder (2018 version) is not a difficult course to memorize (all 112 miles). It was a particular corner that was the confusion. I like Dan's comment about chalk, signs, cones, people at a corner like that directing...I can add one suggestion that may help but will cost a bit...rent one of those programmable road signs and park it in the last mile of a corner like that. Something reading like: Lap 2 straight, Bike Complete-right (or to that effect). IM Boulder historically shows this bike course will change again in 2019.
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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [Rocky M] [ In reply to ]
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Not surprised to hear his Boston time of 2:10 Given he was near a 3 hour run split the first half of the Boulder run.... too bad... would like to see him run in Kona..
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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [scca_ita] [ In reply to ]
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His final run time was 3:13--before the DQ. Impressive for a 50+ year old in those conditions indeed!
Last edited by: Rocky M: Jun 13, 18 8:11
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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [irontri] [ In reply to ]
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At IMTX 2 years ago coming into T2 I shouted out my bag number "2500!!" I am a numbers person. My number was actually 2546. I was rounding. WTF. Race day, the brain doesn't work! I doubt anything nefarious happened.

She has been DQ'd 3 times. I have turned the wrong direction 3.5 times. I fixed the mistake twice but was DQ'd (along with several others) once. I don't think* I have a pattern of being a cheater!

The reason I said 3.5 times is because a the Woodlands Marathon last year 100% of the race went the wrong way. So that is the half. The motorcade went the wrong way at mile 1 and EVERYONE followed. So that accounts for the .5. I bring it up because for a little while the race tried to blame it on the athletes. The RD - who is a great RD - quickly took responsibility but not before some of the race marshals opened their mouths (and keyboards). So when can we say a course was poorly marked? 1% of the field?
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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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when we build our courses we assume that everyone competing is the dumbest person we've ever met and then pile on the fatigue and delirium of racing on top of that, then mark the course accordingly. if you mess it up it's on you.

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [zipalo1224] [ In reply to ]
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zipalo1224 wrote:
Well I'm a local athlete and Knew the course inside and out and cranking thru on 2nd lap was directed to turn right.


you were directed to turn right where?

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Re: IM Boulder top female AG OA removed from results [robgray] [ In reply to ]
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Coming south on diagonal(119). I asked to confirm there were pros around me so I can only assume he thought I was with them
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