Just, the most effective counselors I know (sex crime therapists, substance abuse therapists) tend to be anti-stigmatic (is that a word?). I don’t know that this point of view has made its way to suicide.

one of my uncontemplatable thoughts is whether there are any people, at any particular time of life, who deserve the dignity of not being considered horribly damaged if he or she takes his own life?

Sure, but those mental health care professionals have a specific job to accomplish that is aided by that approach. I don't know that the layman is obligated or should adopt the same approach to a general view of these issues, because the typical layman is not responsible for treating mental health concerns.

I think you're going to have a hard time convincing most people that committing suicide isn't a sign of mental disorder, severe pain, etc. In general, the desire to survive is a basic human (or even animal) characteristic. A desire to cease surviving is at odds with what would seem to be the baseline of human psychology, and is therefore a disorder of some sort, almost by default. It doesn't have to be acute anguishing depression. Even the example of just being bored and tired of life is a likely to be considered a disorder if it is significant enough for a person to actively choose death.

i don't really want to try to convince anyone of anything. i have zero knowledge on this. i just imagine one of the things i have to deal with in my remaining hours is anticipating the thoughts and prayers givers, who don't know me from adam, opining expertly about my sad and tragic pathology (just like i've been hearing on the radio today about this particular lady). my last bit of dignity is going to be taken away from me by self-righteous assholes who don't know shit about me. maybe this lady just found out she has alzheimers? instead of it being some supposed business disappointment? (as was assumed today on the radio.) or if she is just bored and tired of life, as hs thompson apparently was. maybe labeling that a disorder is mostly to palliate the remainders.

I guess I can't really think of a hypothetical in which wanting to commit suicide is not emblematic of severe pain. Maybe an elderly person just really tired of living?

There’s an automatic stigma. Everybody in America gets to keep and have their dignity these days. Except them.

i have zero knowledge on this. i just imagine one of the things i have to deal with in my remaining hours is anticipating the thoughts and prayers givers, who don't know me from adam, opining expertly about my sad and tragic pathology (just like i've been hearing on the radio today about this particular lady). my last bit of dignity is going to be taken away from me by self-righteous assholes who don't know shit about me. maybe this lady just found out she has alzheimers? instead of it being some supposed business disappointment? (as was assumed today on the radio.) or if she is just bored and tired of life, as hs thompson apparently was. maybe labeling that a disorder is mostly to palliate the remainders.

what reason is there to be concerned about the dignity of the dead?

Designer Kate Spade commits suicide.

I think about my father and grandparents a lot, as standard-bearers. If the internet had gone to work to pick their bones after they died I'm not sure that their memory would be as motivating.

Your theories are tempting, Slowman. Please don't think I am judging or attacking the dignity of those who have committed suicide. I look at it from a different perspective:

A good high school friend of mine committed suicide when we were in our mid-20's, spring of 2006. I nursed my first baby at his memorial service while I listened to his mom describe a taxi ride she took through NYC to my friend's apartment where he died.

Last year the 38 year old mom of one of my 9 year old daughter's friends ended her own life. She had a 9 year old daughter and a 17 year old son. The mom and I had carpooled to our daughters' basketball games. One week we were plotting to get the girls on the same softball team for the summer, and the next week she was gone.

On Sunday, my MIL emailed to let us know my husband's cousin's 17 year old son had hung himself last Thursday after returning home from his 3rd year at college. He leaves behind a sister and father, grandfather, cousins, etc. His mom died of pancreatic cancer in 2008.

We, all of humanity, have an obligation to care for each other. When we harm ourselves, we harm each other. Live for others.

in this life it doesn't matter what you think; or even what you believe. it only matters what you do. if any Canadian who offers an opinion about the US Government would use that energy to take a neighbor to breakfast, it would do more good.