You can paint this anyway you want to but it is still unauthorized domestic spying on a US citizen.

I wish I had put it that way.

I am concerned about the increase in surveillance but am somewhat comforted that the court was notified as were congressional leaders including Pelosi and I think Rockefeller.

The whole controversy is over the fact that the Court was not notified. In conducting the surveillance the government acted without the Court's authorization as required under the law.

Maybe you didn't notice, but it was authorized. Also, lots of the people involved were not US citizens, though we don't know yet if that description applied to all of them.

As a foreigner in the US, do you really think you are entitled to full US rights including a right to privacy in international communication? In all the threads on this issue, no once has anyone been willing to address that threshold question.

The Court was notified, just after the fact in many cases.

Get your facts right next time.

So if I call my friend in Canada, normal laws don't apply and they can spy on me without a warrant? That may be your belief, but it is not the law.

Maybe you didn't notice, but it was authorized.

By who?

---

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Maybe you didn't notice, but it was authorized

How was it authorized. From Bush's mouth to God's ear? Is that what you are talking about.

Art, don't move the goals posts. The issue is one of domestic spying on US citizens. If an American citizen is sitting in their living room watching Seinfeld reruns and talking to their sister in Beirut while the NSA is listening, with out court authorization to do so, it's unauthorized domestic spying.

Not a chance. RFID doesn't work at that distance. Meters or tens of meters, maybe.

---

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

Most new cell phones have GPS capable RFIDs. they can be tracked by satellite. My Blackberry has one.

---

----------------------------------------------------------
"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

Show us the distinction between my calling from New Jersey my brother when he is in New York, and when he is in London. Please include references in the Constitution and Bill of Rights that differentiates between domestic and international communications.

---

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

By the Executive Branch of government.

The NYT article itself said that the court was notified of the change in procedure. Certainly warrants were not issued in accordance with this procedure. As I understand the NSA, computers scan e-mail and maybe voice communications for key words. Once a hot item pops up, they can seek authority for a more detailed tap. It is the first step screening for which warrants are likely too burdensome.

I don't see how you can seriously have an expectation of privacy when you call Beirut. I certainly don't see how you can call an international call domestic communication. The signals were actually picked up overseas by the way, not domestically.

So if the President gave himself approval to throw all members of Congress in jail and declare himself King George VI that would be perfectly legal? because he has approval from the Executive Branch?

What flavor is the Koolaid today?

---

----------------------------------------------------------
"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

Most new cell phones have GPS capable RFIDs. they can be tracked by satellite.

That's not how it works.

Your blackberry can track gps satellites. It can transmit the coordinates it reads to your service provider. It cannot be tracked by satellite. I'm not sure about the blackberry specifically, but cell phones allow the user the option of transmitting the coordinates all the time, or just for 911 calls.

None of this is done using an RFID.

---

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

The difference is the expectation of privacy. You don't have an expectation of privacy if you use a cordless phone since any intelligent person knows most of those can be easily and accidently intercepted. You don't have an expectation of privacy for materials you throw out and put out to the curb.

I wouldn't have an expectation of privacy for an international phone call or email unless I used some kind of encryption.

Maybe you think differently, but I have not gotten a response to this question despite many attempts for a reason.

I think you are wrong. The GPS and RFID capabilities are different. They may be integrated, but it is the GPS technology that communicates with the satellite, not the RFID.

---

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

Of course not. He has no power over a coequal branch of government.

He does have a lot of authority in national security matters, and he obviously believes for good reason that this action is within those powers. You can protest in simple terms and make stupid analogies all you want, but his position is perfectly defensible.

As an American citizen, I have an expectation of privacy when I talk on the phone: said expectation is that the US government cannot eavesdrop on that phone line without court approval. The fact that the other end is in New York or London is irrelevant. The fact that it is wireless or corded is irrelevant to the fact that the US government cannot eavesdrop on that phone line without court approval.

Where do you get this domestic vs. international dichotomy?

---

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

Matt is refering to passive RFID only which has such a limited range. Active systems like cell phones can be tracked and located in real time so long as they are turned on.

Active systems like cell phones can be tracked and located in real time so long as they are turned on.

Not really.

---

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Sure they can. You can even buy this feature from Nextel. You can give your kid one of the properly enabled phones, and track them in real time over the web. It doesn't even cost that much.

Sure they can. You can even buy this feature from Nextel. You can give your kid one of the properly enabled phones, and track them in real time over the web.

See my earlier post.

---

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Don't argue with Art. As soon as you prove your point, you will find that Art was (according to him) talking about something completely different. For instance, once you demonstrate that RFID just can't reach satellites from the ground, Art'll tell you that when he said "active systems" a moment ago, he was talking about the cell phone, not the RFID technology, so he was still right.

---

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"