Cool, I win.

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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

I’m not sure what we’re not agreeing on. You made a very insulting post about what kind of people buy these kinds of weapons, and I tried to inform you that plenty of folks do so not out of a desire to own a weapon that can kill a bunch of people, but because they are in fact fun to shoot and that plenty of people enjoy shooting them. What “solution” are you talking about, that my friend should have been a part of?

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

Can you yell "FIRE" in a movie theatre without consequences? What about 1st Amendment rights? Just because it's a right does mean there's no ability to limit aspects of that right. The 2nd Amendment does not say you can keep and bare any arms you want. So if we want to be a strict contitutionalist, then sure, you can keep and bare any musket you want.

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TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

Dude, this is snark........don't expect a response. I am always amazed when people think others won't follow the law if they change. Its like a vigilante society approach.

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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

Is it possible that we are on the furthest end of the pendulum swing (towards gun restriction in the opinions of the American public) already? School shootings plastered all over the 24 hour newscycle, Sandy Hook, Las Vegas... How much worse can it get? Yet I have not seen a legitimate attempt to make major changes. Politically grandstanding "do something without really doing anything" types of changes, yes, but I haven't seen anybody taking a serious swing at the meat of this issue.

Actually, the 2nd Amendment says absolutely nothing about muskets, so nice try. And, a lot of you folks are setting up a strawman argument that I’m not making. Why is it so hard to understand that a certain segment of the population that owns assault rifles may not be inclined to give them up without a fight? That is all I’m saying.

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

your friend might say, "the marketing of these weapons is sick. it's a sickness. it's a cancer. as an owner of a tactical rifle i'm ashamed that i'm part of this culture; part of this industry. i can no longer stand by without stating publicly my own shame, my own complicity. we can change the gun culture in america while preserving the right of responsible gun ownership. this will be a big ship to turn, but i'm pledging to lend my voice to real, tangible, granular steps to turn this ship."

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Seriously? Anybody who owns a “tactical” rifle bears the shame of mass shootings? That by being part of that “culture” they are somehow complicit?

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

I know that but it was the weapon of the day. Surely you don't believe Founding Fathers knew what an AR-15 was and therefore kept the 2nd vague? What's the strawman, I'm just pointing out that there are limits put on our rights now and additional limits can be made? I don't believe anyone thinks it would be easy for someone to give up their assault rifle. Just because it wouldn't be easy doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

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TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

well, you asked.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Answer the question. Own it. Don’t cop out. Just come out and say it. Tell me how guys who served their country honorably for many years, to include combat time, are in some way responsible or complicit for some nut job shooting up a school just because they own a weapon similar to that used in that shooting.

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

i'm not coping out, bro. i did come out and say it. the tactical rifle industry is an abortion. it's a public menace. it's a public shame. yes, those guns are fun. go have fun.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Pointing out that the 2nd Amendment says nothing about muskets has pretty much zero to do with AR-15s. Asking if I believe that the Founding Fathers knew about AR-15s is again, a strawman that I never made. The 2nd Amendment says that the right to keep and bear (not bare) arms shall not be infringed. Period. Says nothing about arms types. And the strawman is that I’m saying that because a ban would be difficult means that it shouldn’t be done. I never said that, I’m pointing out to certain posters who claim that it’s “not rocket science” that it wouldn’t be that easy.

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

It's funny, this gun control thing, because here's who typically goes to prison for violating gun laws: Minorities. In 2011, blacks (49.6%) and Hispanics (20.6%) went to jail for firearms violation. Whites came in at 27.6%, far less than the combined black/Hispanic number. Those numbers have probably held steady, or even increased for minorities, since then.

Here's how gun laws work: get caught violating them and you go to prison. Just for owning an illegal weapon -- not using it in an illegal manner, such as threatening someone with it -- you risk a significant years-long prison term. So once again, just as with drugs, we seem to have laws that disproportionately harm the poor and minorities. And that's precisely what gun control would do in this instance, if the more draconian control measures advocated by some here were to be enacted.

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

Wow. Can I assume that since adverstising glamorizes alcohol, and that there is a serious problem with alcohol abuse in this country, that anybody who consumes alcohol is complicit in alcohol abuse? Anybody who imbibes is complicit in each and every death caused by an intoxicated driver? Do you scorn and shame those around you who drink because of their reprehensible behavior that encourages alcohol abuse?

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

You mean sorta like what this guy did?

"I will be the change I want to see in this world. If our lawmakers will continue to close their eyes and open their wallets, I will lead by example."

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"Go yell at an M&M"

 



i own a car. i don't drink. so, am i part of the drunk driving problem? perhaps so, if i'm unwilling to recognize that my "weapon" is used by people less responsible than i am. so, how about this: breathalyzers in every car, phased in over a decade. fine by me. anything past .07 and your car won't start. i'm happy to pay my share to make this happen. if i'm unwilling to help solve a social problem of this magnitude then yeah, i should share some of the shame.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Most of the Founders had an easy familiarity with firearms and the ever-evolving nature of gun technology. Many even knew of the semi-automatic firearms of the era, including the Girandoni 20-round repeating rifle. It was air-operated (making it an air rifle) and it had a 20-round tubular magazine and could fire off 30 rounds before its air reservoir had to be refilled. It was gravity fed, meaning the next round in the magazine would fall into the chamber as long as the rifle was held at the correct angle. The explorers Lewis and Clark carried the rifle with them on their historic expedition.

So to say the Founders would never have countenanced the murder-death-kill scary black rifles and guns of today, had they known about them (because the musket was the "only" rifle of the time) isn't accurate. Many of them were military men and saw and used a wide variety of firearms and even the ones who weren't military were quite comfortable with the idea of a well-armed citizenry.

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

Not what I asked. I’m asking if you have the same amount of scorn for those who drink that you do for people who own assault rifles. Seems to me that the situation is quite similar in terms of advertising and glamorizing something that nobody really “needs,” and yet is causal to far more deaths per year than assault rifles.

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

fckn a. thank you. made my day.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

let me see if i can do this justice. if a brand of alcohol was designed and marketed as a way to get somebody drunk and prostrate, so you could commit sexual assault, and a small but significant user group actually took the manufacturer's hyberbolic message seriously, and did buy the brand of alcohol for that very purpose, and put that into practice, and the product produced the advertised result then yeah, everybody who buys that brand should at a minimum stand against the culture created by that sort of manufacture and marketing.

that's the closest i can come. i spent some time surfing tactical rifle websites, both sales and user communities. maybe you oughta give that a go, see what you see. see if you think that's a benign message getting sent. i'm beyond certain that the large majority of folks who buy these guns find ways to sidestep the marketing and the culture that the marketing breeds. these users themselves heap scorn on the tacticool. the problem is that the legitimate owner of this kind of gun knows that there's something very wrong with this culture. as slowguy points out, guns have been part of our fabric forever. but mass shootings have not. those who patronize the industry who supports this culture have a responsibility. whether they accept it is on them. i'm out.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

It wasn't a book, it was an issue of the magazine. It was prior to the 1986 FOPA, so it included select fire weapons (i.e., "full auto") available for civilian sale. Those were dubbed "assault rifles."

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Except, no matter how much you hate the marketing and product in this case, there aren't any gun manufacturers designing and marketing AR-15s, or any other weapon, as a great tool to go out and shoot up schools.


I dislike the "tactical" shit as much as anyone, but you have yet to demonstrate, really in any way, that the shooters in these school incidents bought or used their weapons in an attempt to be tactical badasses. I get that it bugs you, but just because it bugs you doesn't make it a contributing factor to the issue of mass shootings.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

This is a long thread with a lot of replies so I am not addressing anyone except the OP...

It is fucking crazy to think that the solution to your problems is to arm teachers. Fucking ludicrous. Insane.

Just. Fucking. Crazy.

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Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

i think they all think they are tactical badasses. paddock especially, but not exclusively. the problem is the packaging, messaging, marketing, the user culture that's sprung up (the slowtwitches of mayhem weapons), more than the actual weapon. one could do the job just as well with a semi auto hunting rifle with a pretty solid walnut stock but it just... doesn't... feel as good mass killing with that weapon. which is why nobody uses it.

you don't think there's anything to see here. you think these mass shooters are all buying and using specifically this class of weapon for some other reason, and that's it's the responsibility of all of us who note this coincidence to prove to you the nexus. agree to disagree.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman