So you don’t care if information was illegally gathered, as long as it is accurate? That sort of thing would go against a LOT of judicial rulings in this country.

Radar = Page’s name came up as recruitment target in a wire tapped conversation by the FBI between Russian spies in 2013. He was interviewed at that point in time by the FBI. Page subsequently has taken numerous business trips to and from Moscow as recently as 2016. In the middle of all of this he managed to insert himself (or be inserted) into the Trump campaign.

That’s what the fuck that means.

So you don’t care if information was illegally gathered, as long as it is accurate? That sort of thing would go against a LOT of judicial rulings in this country.

And with all of this surveillance he has been charged with or indicted for what? I must've missed that.

Flipping back and forth between Fox News and MSNBC tonight is like an episode of the Twilight Zone.

playa

I assume you meant "the Dems, the FBI, the FISC judges, and the DoJ", right?

What's your point? That If he hasn't yet been charged then it's all a giant conspiracy?!

Page was being investigated well before the Steele dossier. McCabe testified that it was not the sole source of evidence for the FISA application (which, ironically, the GOP memo supports) and the courts WERE made aware there were political connections to the Steele dossier (originally Republican and then Democratic funded). So it is not true that the court was unaware of the political connections, and again, the Steele dossier was by no means the sole source of intelligence that was being used in the FISA applications. And it may very well be that there was information in the Steele dossier that HAD been corroborated. We don't know and likely never will because it's classified information. The FISA applications (there were 4) each time had to show the surveillance was yielding results, so the FBI must have gathered new information in its investigation that was sufficient for the subsequent applications to be granted.

John McCain said it best:

“The latest attacks against the FBI and Department of Justice serve no American interests ― no party’s, no President’s, only Putin’s. The American people deserve to know all the facts surrounding Russia’s ongoing efforts to subvert our democracy, which is why Special Counsel Mueller’s investigation must proceed unimpeded. Our nation’s elected officials, including the president, must stop looking at this investigation through the lens of politics and manufacturing political sideshows. If we continue to undermine our own rule of law, we are doing Putin’s job for him.”

A) Do you expect 100% hit rate on people being investigated?

B) He isn’t out of the woods.

This is honestly nonsensical, these rebuttals. Seriously if his name was Muhammed and the country in question was Iran, you fuckers would be asking why he isnt in Guantanamo. I cannot fucking imagine the shitshow this country would be in if Muhammed then also worked on Hillary’s campaign.

I honestly expect nothing of this board, but holy motherfuck is it off the deep end these days.

My point is that the rule of law was not followed in this case. Period. We have processes set up in the US so those we trust with power can not operate unencumbered and trample civil rights. Dem, repub, we have civil rights.

In this country, we cannot go fishing at the expense of trampling civil rights and then say it's OK if we find something. Like I said above, think stop-and-frisk.

I don't care if they find out this guy is Putin. If they wanted to spy on him, they should have followed the rules.

As you aptly point out, like McCain said, "If we continue to undermine our own rule of law, we are doing Putin’s job for him."

1. I expect 100% following the rules if we are to spy on people.
2. I don't care if he's not out of the woods. I am not going to justify or defend this based on what is found or not. Spying on Americans without proper cause is wrong. Period.
3. Muslims should also not be spied on without proper cause and documentation.

Anything else?

Radar = Page’s name came up as recruitment target in a wire tapped conversation by the FBI between Russian spies in 2013. He was interviewed at that point in time by the FBI. Page subsequently has taken numerous business trips to and from Moscow as recently as 2016. In the middle of all of this he managed to insert himself (or be inserted) into the Trump campaign.

That’s what the fuck that means.

saltman wrote:

The shame in all of this is that everyday americans believe MSNBC is the leftist equivalent of Fox News.

When all is said and done there will be a clear right and wrong side. I will bet dollars to donuts that the MSNBC will have been closer to the truth of the matter tha Fox News by an extremely wide margin.

The shame in all of this is that everyday americans believe MSNBC is the leftist equivalent of Fox News.

When all is said and done there will be a clear right and wrong side. I will bet dollars to donuts that the MSNBC will have been closer to the truth of the matter tha Fox News by an extremely wide margin.

MSNBC offers more opinion than any other "news" network on the air
https://www.forbes.com/...by-far/#7c6da3855f8c

"Opinion" does not equal bias and misinformation. It can mean that (Fox News), but doesn't have to mean that.

Absolutely, 100% true. Bet on it.

Where this is concerned I think there are 3 kinds of people: those who think Fox News is evil, those who think CNN/MSNBC is evil, and those who see them both for what they are. And what they each are is an avenue through which advertising is sold. Neither of them provide a completely unbiased look at things because both sides have figured out that outrage sells so they present material in a way that outrages their desired audiences.