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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]
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MLS teams have been acquiring lower tier teams and starting academies. They just aren't turning out good players
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Uncle Arqyle] [ In reply to ]
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Just think if you were Dutch, you'd have a real reason to complain.

There goes my only reason to watch the World Cup...

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Re: USA Out of World Cup [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, brutal to beat on a poorly coached and poorly developed team.

Just blame the players....very classy!

These kids did all they could, which wasn't enough.

You want to give the players, the ones on the field who couldn't score, a free pass and instead blame the development system? How many goals did the coach of Mexico score?
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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Don't worry, it's just part of our grand scheme to delegitimize Russia by not taking part in their World Cup, without having to go through the hassle of a boycott.

The world has never seen a strategy like that.

Trump is brilliant.

Last edited by: Sanuk: Oct 11, 17 8:27
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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Exactly. I'm reading through the outrage on this thread thinking "Haven't the US always sucked at soccer?"

I mean, they usually qualify but it would be a huge victory just to advance past the quarter finals.

If they would just open the border, lots of Mexicans could come in and in a few years, their team would be great.

Thanks Trump!!!

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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Steve Hawley] [ In reply to ]
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Every MF'r in the country with a AK and/or PKM was out pumping lead into the sky.

You should talk with Roger Goodell. The NFL needs new ideas to help sell the game.

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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Ready4Launch wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
crowny2 wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
crowny2 wrote:

The Pay to Play is also ruining development. When it costs $2-$6k per year for a player to play on a good squad, you are automatically eliminating a pool of talent. That kind of crap doesn't happen anywhere else but here. And it is ALL about the $.


A big issue is that clubs need to win because that's the metric that attracts parents to fork over money. At a proper academy the metric that matters is turning out professional players, not winning youth games.


Agreed. Leander Schaerlaeckens (I think) wrote this fantastic 5 part article for ESPNFC (Back when it was Soccernet) that I can't find anymore. Talked about the problem with soccer in the US and the foundation was in their development. The squads are set up to win, not to develop (including how the teams play too many games and in practice it was too regimented and doesn't allow for natural development of skills) was the long and short of it. Wish it was still around because it couldn't be more timely than today.

ETA: corrected Leander's last name. I always misspell it.


In Europe clubs have scouts out looking for talented youth. When found they are brought in for a trial, if good enough they stick around until they find someone better than them or they make it. So relentless selective pressure and specific training to develop a professional player.

In the U.S. almost everyone is developed by the hit or miss means that kids who aren't good enough to get into professional clubs in Europe go through.

My kids are in 9th and 6th grade, have done club soccer and school soccer for years yet are missing some basic skills. Neither one had ever done a heading or chest trapping drill until my son did one with his HS team this year. On my daughter's teams almost no one can trap a ball that comes at them in the air from more than about 10 feet away.


What in the ever loving fuck is going on??? Jesus christ.

Never chest trapped or headed a ball until high school?! You're serious, right?

Well, never did a drill in practice to work on it.

My kids soccer training is hit or miss.

Summer is off, Fall is travel soccer through town rec (coach is a parent usually), simultaneous is school soccer which has been a gym teacher (HS is actually a former South American professional player), Winter and Spring is club soccer, usually with a different coach every year.

Easy to see how things could be missed, there is no overall structure to any of it.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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Wow - that just amazes me that it's 2017 and your kids never did a drill in practice to properly trap and control the ball. That's the kind of stuff that I would accept as predictable from the late 80s to mid/late 90s when moms and dads were "getting involved with soccer".

I can't speak about your kids obviously, but generally, 9th grader without those skills is going to be toasted. It's good if he's playing and enjoying it, but it's not good for player development. A 6th grader may still have a chance with the right inputs and focus. But, just as importantly, they have to be having fun and from that want to get better themselves.

I don't think there needs to be an overall structure through the year. They need the correct instruction. They need the basics; the cake before the icing, the crawl before the walk before the run. It seems that definitely didn't happen in your kids' cases.

Get them off the field and get them inside a rink. Get them playing indoor soccer. It'll be the best jump start you could give your 6th grader

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
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"I have no words. Can we somehow blame this on Trump or Obama? "


The best I can do is at the end of the Mexico game, they had a free kick just outside the box. The WALL STOPPED the Mexican goal that would have resulted in a tie. A tie would have sent the US into a final playoff with a crappy Asian team to determine who would get the last spot.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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PSA. By law (Slowman's law AFAIK), US men's soccer threads aren't allowed to go past 100 posts. This has never happened before so let's not start now.

You may resume kneeling in protest of this travesty.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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One thing I have noticed in sports where the typical score is 1-0 or decided by one point, goal, or run is that on any given day the worst team can beat the best team. Now over the course of a season like in baseball, the great teams float to the top, but on any single day they can and do get beat by the worst team.

I guess in soccer it is even more the case as it seems like 1 goal differentials are the norm, and they don't play as many games as a baseball season has to determine who gets to go to playoffs. It seems to be more what happens on a given day or tournament that decides teams fates.

I think it happens in hockey a lot too, probably why a lot of these team sports use 5 or 7 games once the playoffs start to decide who continues on. Win most/every game or go home sports can be brutal sometimes.

I have no comment about the players or coaching abilities, just feel sorry for the US fans that have to go to their 2nd most favorite team now, if they have one...
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Ready4Launch wrote:
I don't think there needs to be an overall structure through the year. They need the correct instruction. They need the basics; the cake before the icing, the crawl before the walk before the run. It seems that definitely didn't happen in your kids' cases.

Yeah but the basics can get missed if there is no overall plan. Honestly, they have received next to no training through travel soccer and school. That is largely about getting them organized for playing games, and the coaches don't have much if any knowledge for skills work anyway.

The club soccer in winter is a couple times a week, a day of foot work mostly dribbling and maybe a pick up type game on weekends. In Spring is about the only time they've had someone working with that knows all that much (other than the foot work), and even then it is too heavily focused on games, usually one practice a week and a game on weekends.

Another thing among many that they have never really had is agility work, which I would assume is a mainstay of kids at decent clubs.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
Wow, brutal to beat on a poorly coached and poorly developed team.

Just blame the players....very classy!

These kids did all they could, which wasn't enough.

You want to give the players, the ones on the field who couldn't score, a free pass and instead blame the development system? How many goals did the coach of Mexico score?

Don't be ridiculous, I am not giving them a free pass.
I grant every athlete out there on a national team the benefit that they want to do their best for their Country.

Their showing was a display of lack of preparation, confidence and tactical (coaching) errors.

And I suggest you read 'Burnman"'s post.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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my two cents... years ago I was a screaming soccer dad. I helped melt the ice caps by hammering my z28 to get my son to where ever and what ever he had to go. I would never do that again...wasteful stupid. Since i have noticed too many overcoddled rich kids being promoted in the soccer cirlces...non of this surprises me.

sometimes
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
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First one bites the dust. Arena's out.

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Galati should be next.

The USMNT lost it’s identity. For 30 years we were known as low talent, hard working, high energy, better conditioned team that had to scrap and fight.

This was our most talented team but somewhere over the last 4 years they lost the desire and competitive edge.

Will be difficult to get it back. Need to ditch the old guard and bring in new blood. The u-17 team has won its group at their World Cup.

There is hope.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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No surprise there. People were obviously calling for his head, but giving him the immediate boot was not the right answer. His resignation (while little more than a cosmetic change) buys US soccer a bit of time before they need to demonstrate action.

"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [burnman] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, yesterday Arena's own comments were that he didn't want to go through another 4 year cycle, and said he'll go with whatever is right. Well, I think it was made apparent what was right.

Problem now is: who steps into this job? Gulati, if he doesn't resign -- which he likely won't -- then the election is in February. Particularly, if you're an outsider coming into the US job and the man who picked you is ousted in February, then you may be looking at a quick exit yourself. In truth, though, I don't think they'll bring in an outsider. Still tenuous until the time that Gulati leaves.

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Ready4Launch wrote:
First one bites the dust. Arena's out.

Not surprising.

As a coach of many teams of different talent levels, I can firmly assert the teams with the more talented players always made me seem outwardly that I was a better coach.

Truth be told, I coached a state champ that my grandmom could have had success coaching. And, I've coached a lowest division U10 team that, to this day, remains my most successful personal triumph. However, not many looking in from the outside would see it the same way.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [mustangchef] [ In reply to ]
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mustangchef wrote:
my two cents... years ago I was a screaming soccer dad. I helped melt the ice caps by hammering my z28 to get my son to where ever and what ever he had to go. I would never do that again...wasteful stupid. Since i have noticed too many overcoddled rich kids being promoted in the soccer cirlces...non of this surprises me.

My coaching mentor, Mike Barr, and current technical director is quoted in this article: http://www.delcotimes.com/...011/SPORTS/171019906

In it, he makes the same point you make, which is also one that has permeated conventional wisdom for some time.

My question is: Why do we assume these "inner-city", or "underprivileged", basically "not white" kids (c'mon let's all be adult and say it) want to play soccer. Last I checked, these kids find their way to football and basketball. Go to any inner city basketball hoop and there will be 50 kids ballin'. Many times, there's a full soccer field right next to it...and it's empty.

This is a nature and nurture debate. If daddy played football and thought soccer players were "foot fags", guess what, junior is playing football, too.

I don't dispute that youth soccer is ridiculously and unnecessarily expensive. But I also know that youth and high school teams in my area cover the costs for these underprivileged players who can't afford to play. When they get to the college level, that's where they need more help from US soccer. I can assure you, though, that all these BMW-driving soccer parents who we lament, dig deep into their pockets to subsidize talented "underprivileged" players who make their kid's team better and good enough to play at Dallas Cup, Jeff Cup, and in the elite state leagues.

I've seen it. I know of a team that has two kids who are picked up twice a week from over 90 minutes away for training by parents of other kids on the team. The cost for these players (uniforms, travel, fees, etc.) to the tune of thousands of dollars are fully paid by the team. Why? These kids are twins and they can put the ball in the net like you've never seen.

This support will stop when the club team breaks up and everyone goes to college. It's at that point US Soccer needs to identify and support these players. It's not at the club level.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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Most sports teams are run at a loss. They are tax writeoffs for their wealthy owners. They plow money into salaries, facilities, and marketing, in order to sell tickets and win championships. An owner then gets all their financial return when they turn around and sell the team. That income stream is in turn taxed as capital gains. Your bottom five NBA teams lose $10 - $15 million a year. There were 14 unprofitable NDA teams in 2016.

There are certainly exceptions -- Knicks, Lakers, Bulls -- who sell so much merch that being unprofitable is nearly impossible.

About half of the WNBA teams are profitable.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [sea.bryan] [ In reply to ]
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Most sports teams are run at a loss. They are tax writeoffs for their wealthy owners. They plow money into salaries, facilities, and marketing, in order to sell tickets and win championships. An owner then gets all their financial return when they turn around and sell the team.

That's exactly right and one reason why I hate it when owners expect the city and taxpayers to pay for new stadiums. They operate at a loss, get tax write-offs, get government subsidies and then make hundreds of millions when they sell the franchise. I've never seen one owner, who had help from taxpayers and then made a profit on the sale, repay any of that money. Go figure.

If I were on a city government and a owner wanted a free stadium, I would add a condition that if the franchise moved or changed ownership, part of the proceeds would go to repaying the subsidy.

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Re: USA Out of World Cup [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
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I think you missed the point of the coaches very accurate comments. Kids in the United States don't play for fun. They are over coached. They have no creativity, technical skills and are never taught how to actually play the game. It is about winning. Put the biggest and strongest out on the field and let them over power their opponent so Johnny can get a trophy. When they get older they get their ass handed to them by kids from countries who learned how to play the game in the streets with friends. Dempsey is a great example. One of the greatest to ever play in the United States, he learned to play soccer in the streets, not by having his parents overpay some white guy in Texas a fortune to ruin the game for him. The United States will NEVER be a soccer power until the pay for play system is killed or dramatically changed. If Renaldo or Messi were from Texas neither would be playing the game today.

And yes the coach is correct. Head to any major city and you will find Hispanic young men and kids playing soccer in a way which most white, suburban white kids will never understand. They are having fun and have far more skills then the local high school star. Get those kids playing, bring in a coach from outside the United States, bring creativity and fun to the game, and the U.S. has a chance. On our current path, we are what we are. A below average, unskilled soccer wannabe.

DJRed wrote:
mustangchef wrote:
my two cents... years ago I was a screaming soccer dad. I helped melt the ice caps by hammering my z28 to get my son to where ever and what ever he had to go. I would never do that again...wasteful stupid. Since i have noticed too many overcoddled rich kids being promoted in the soccer cirlces...non of this surprises me.


My coaching mentor, Mike Barr, and current technical director is quoted in this article: http://www.delcotimes.com/...011/SPORTS/171019906

In it, he makes the same point you make, which is also one that has permeated conventional wisdom for some time.

My question is: Why do we assume these "inner-city", or "underprivileged", basically "not white" kids (c'mon let's all be adult and say it) want to play soccer. Last I checked, these kids find their way to football and basketball. Go to any inner city basketball hoop and there will be 50 kids ballin'. Many times, there's a full soccer field right next to it...and it's empty.

This is a nature and nurture debate. If daddy played football and thought soccer players were "foot fags", guess what, junior is playing football, too.

I don't dispute that youth soccer is ridiculously and unnecessarily expensive. But I also know that youth and high school teams in my area cover the costs for these underprivileged players who can't afford to play. When they get to the college level, that's where they need more help from US soccer. I can assure you, though, that all these BMW-driving soccer parents who we lament, dig deep into their pockets to subsidize talented "underprivileged" players who make their kid's team better and good enough to play at Dallas Cup, Jeff Cup, and in the elite state leagues.

I've seen it. I know of a team that has two kids who are picked up twice a week from over 90 minutes away for training by parents of other kids on the team. The cost for these players (uniforms, travel, fees, etc.) to the tune of thousands of dollars are fully paid by the team. Why? These kids are twins and they can put the ball in the net like you've never seen.

This support will stop when the club team breaks up and everyone goes to college. It's at that point US Soccer needs to identify and support these players. It's not at the club level.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jwbeuk] [ In reply to ]
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jwbeuk wrote:
I think you missed the point of the coaches very accurate comments. Kids in the United States don't play for fun. They are over coached. They have no creativity, technical skills and are never taught how to actually play the game. It is about winning. Put the biggest and strongest out on the field and let them over power their opponent so Johnny can get a trophy. When they get older they get their ass handed to them by kids from countries who learned how to play the game in the streets with friends. Dempsey is a great example. One of the greatest to ever play in the United States, he learned to play soccer in the streets, not by having his parents overpay some white guy in Texas a fortune to ruin the game for him. The United States will NEVER be a soccer power until the pay for play system is killed or dramatically changed. If Renaldo or Messi were from Texas neither would be playing the game today.

And yes the coach is correct. Head to any major city and you will find Hispanic young men and kids playing soccer in a way which most white, suburban white kids will never understand. They are having fun and have far more skills then the local high school star. Get those kids playing, bring in a coach from outside the United States, bring creativity and fun to the game, and the U.S. has a chance. On our current path, we are what we are. A below average, unskilled soccer wannabe.

DJRed wrote:
mustangchef wrote:
my two cents... years ago I was a screaming soccer dad. I helped melt the ice caps by hammering my z28 to get my son to where ever and what ever he had to go. I would never do that again...wasteful stupid. Since i have noticed too many overcoddled rich kids being promoted in the soccer cirlces...non of this surprises me.


My coaching mentor, Mike Barr, and current technical director is quoted in this article: http://www.delcotimes.com/...011/SPORTS/171019906

In it, he makes the same point you make, which is also one that has permeated conventional wisdom for some time.

My question is: Why do we assume these "inner-city", or "underprivileged", basically "not white" kids (c'mon let's all be adult and say it) want to play soccer. Last I checked, these kids find their way to football and basketball. Go to any inner city basketball hoop and there will be 50 kids ballin'. Many times, there's a full soccer field right next to it...and it's empty.

This is a nature and nurture debate. If daddy played football and thought soccer players were "foot fags", guess what, junior is playing football, too.

I don't dispute that youth soccer is ridiculously and unnecessarily expensive. But I also know that youth and high school teams in my area cover the costs for these underprivileged players who can't afford to play. When they get to the college level, that's where they need more help from US soccer. I can assure you, though, that all these BMW-driving soccer parents who we lament, dig deep into their pockets to subsidize talented "underprivileged" players who make their kid's team better and good enough to play at Dallas Cup, Jeff Cup, and in the elite state leagues.

I've seen it. I know of a team that has two kids who are picked up twice a week from over 90 minutes away for training by parents of other kids on the team. The cost for these players (uniforms, travel, fees, etc.) to the tune of thousands of dollars are fully paid by the team. Why? These kids are twins and they can put the ball in the net like you've never seen.

This support will stop when the club team breaks up and everyone goes to college. It's at that point US Soccer needs to identify and support these players. It's not at the club level.

No, I'm 100% with you and him. I simply focused on one aspect of the article. My training sessions are fun and devoid of "drills". I encourage risk taking on the field and learning from mistakes made.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [burnman] [ In reply to ]
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burnman wrote:
No surprise there. People were obviously calling for his head, but giving him the immediate boot was not the right answer. His resignation (while little more than a cosmetic change) buys US soccer a bit of time before they need to demonstrate action.

No they should have done him like USC and Pat Hayden did Lane Kiffin, fire him before he gets on the plane home.

On another topic here is why the future is bleak, USA Soccer and their rules regarding headers.

http://usclubsoccer.org/...g-for-youth-players/

All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

Team Zoot, Team Zoot Mid-Atlantic

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