Never said I didn't want the investigation to continue. Well lets not forget, at the time of the Trump Jr meeting, Donald was not the sitting President either. So I guess the question then becomes, IF Hillary had won, would you view the DNC working with the Ukraine to get information about Donald Trump in the same light as you view Don Jr trying to get dirt on Hillary from the Russian lawyer? Also, if Hillary had won, would there still be all this outrage over Russian interference? I doubt there would.

Hillary and/or the DNC should not have been working with the Ukrainians. No doubt about it. As soon as she is sworn into office we should look into this. Ukraine however is not our enemy nor are they invading their neighbors or powerful enough to threaten the world.

that in fact materialized into nothing at all is such a huge deal?
I suppose we have to take Jr's word for this? And what about the other meetings? How many were there? Before he was forced to he laughed at the possibility of this one even existing.

When I see stupid shit like that, you bet your ass I will point it out because by not acknowledging it or condemning it, it just bolsters my belief and many others belief that this whole Russian thing is just part of the agenda to smear and attack the President


Horse shit. Russia has been the foremost enemy of the United States for 70 years. The president and his campaign worked with the Russian government. They hired a campaign manager that worked for the Russian government. They met with the Russian government repeatedly. We don't know how many other contacts or what else passed between them, they only have full transparency on this after they are caught. The Rosenbergs were executed with flimsier evidence than this.

Now the Russian government has a huge amount of leverage over them. And you want to blow it off as a smear campaign? Fuck me.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Here's your timeline:

1. Junior agrees to meet with an explicilty-described Russian government lawyer who claims to have the inside dirt on Clinton directly from the Crown prosecutor
2. Hours later, Senior gives a speech in which he claims he's going to have a major announcement soon about Clinton
3. Meeting occurs, nothing revelatory occurs
4. Senior never gives the speech about Clinton
5. Junior claims (in his what, third revision of his description of events?) Senior knew nothing about the meeting

Do you think that passes the smell test, and so Senior is not involved? That would require Junior, Manafort, and Kushner to have just told Senior "hey, we're going to learn some dirt about Clinton next week," and both Senior never asked how/why, and the three of them didn't tell him.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I love your aspirations. :)

And I think it's hard to cry foul about political games. Birtherism went to the freaking Supreme Court (3 suits dismissed by that court).

Welcome to politics. It's not for the thin-skinned. And it's not new. Been going on since there were conflicts over who should be designated alpha male tribal leader back in like neanderthal days.

Link please?

"The difference of course being that Hillary is not the sitting President."


Thank Allah! Or satan, or Rastafarian, or whomever you pray too..

So you're working on the assumption that there is nothing else that transpired between the Russians and the Trumps? We know it all now, right? I mean, the administration has been very up front on all of this so far, there hasn't been a single amendment to a security clearance, no further disclosures after heated denials, no one hired that had connections to the Russians, ... I can see why you are so trusting. If there is anything at all left out there, there is leverage. Because Vlad knows.

Ask yourself why Trump is so hard on our allies and so easy on Russia. Why would that be? Why criticize NATO while taking Vlad at his word? If you were president, would you do that?

Critical thinking is your friend. Just because you didn't like Hillary does not mean you have to defend Trump. There were and are other choices.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Yes I'm sure the guy who spent months saying 'lock her up' on a daily basis would know nothing about his son, son-in-law and his top campaign staffer going to a meeting to obtain information about 'locking her up'.

And it's pure coincidence that right before the meeting, he gave a speech where he stated that damning information about the Clintons would be released in a few days.

There likely won't be a link unless core parts of an investigation are leaked, but jpo's allegation more than plausible if just looking at Kushner alone.

I think these are now accepted as something close to fact:

1) Kushner met with a Russian connected with an explicit and covert attempt to influence the U.S. election
2) Kushner (apparently) did not report this meeting when applying for a security clearance

To any security professional that's game-over. You're done. At that point you start praying that you only get fired, and you're not charged with a felony.

And a primary reason you're done is risk of blackmail or coercive influence by the people who know you lied.

If it ends there, it'd be just Kushner (in addition to Flynn, who already had his clearance pulled for the same reason). But if the narrative as now changed from "Nothing happened! FAKE NEWS!", to, "well, things happened, but Trump didn't know about it, just his entire inner circle...," that's problematic. Maybe an effective defense (it's worked in the past).

Where's the proof? I'm sure Trump and his associates probably had many business dealings with the Russians and I don't think he or anyone has ever denied that. Would you be able to remember every single one business dealing you had? Doubt it. Not one thing you listed is proof that Trump worked with the Russians to get himself elected.

And again if that meeting was as insignificant as Don Jr made it out to be, Kushner would have never thought to include that. Here is the problem I have with it. You have 3 people that took this meeting. Don Jr, Kushner and Manafort. Of the 3 Manaofrt was the one I would have expected to speak up about the legality and the ethical implications of the meeting. He was the experienced one in the room.

"The difference of course being that Hillary is not the sitting President."

Thank Allah! Or satan, or Rastafarian, or whomever you pray too..

I pray to the Christian God of the bible but thanks for the suggestion.

Trump and family have had business relationships with Russian (there is no differentiating the oligarchs from Putin's government) for years, if not decades, so it's not surprising that Donnie Jr. thought absolutely nothing of tapping them for opposition research when presented with the opportunity. I honestly don't think it ever occurred to him that it was problematic, bordering on treasonous. His comments about how it was "before the Russia thing blew up" (paraphrasing) reinforces that he didn't appreciate the inherently anti-American nature of the transaction.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

If critical thinking is now our friend all the anti-Trump people (yes that means you) have lost that ability to think critically. Everything you post is pure speculation based on your own agenda. It is getting embarrassing for you. Every time one of these big "bomb shell" reports from the breathless media comes out you are on here posting more speculation, trying to pass that speculation off as fact. You've been wrong every time. Move on. She lost. It is over. Hillary is not going to be President. Trump is not leaving office till his term is over. Get a life, accept defeat and grow up.

I would imagine anyone at their level would not only have an appointment calendar, but also staff members with appointment books to arrange things like security and transportation. If they have so many meetings as you say, then being organized would be critical.

Here is what we do know.

Manafort hired then fired, no connection to Trump or much involvement with US politics for 20 years. Close ties with Russia. Never registered as a foreign government agent.

Meetings with Russian ambassador by multiple people in the campaign and administration that were denied before they were confirmed by outside sources. Flynn is out over this. Sessions skates. Carter Page, well no one really cares about him. Kushner has skated so far on this too.

Flynn paid by a Kremlin funded propaganda network. Not disclosed until confirmed by outside sources.

Roger Stone tipped by a mysterious source that Wikileaks will publish emails obtained by Russian government. Also partners with Manafort.

Denial of any meetings between higher campaign people and anyone to do with Russia. Right up until a meeting with Jr, Manafort, and Kusher is confirmed by outside sources.

But I'm sure that is everything. We should just believe them since they have been so forthright up until now.

Charle Krauthammer has a pretty good take on Jr. :
“It’s a hell of a defense to say your collusion might be incompetent,” he told Fox News’ Martha MacCallum.
“If you get a call to go to a certain place in the middle of the night to pick up stolen goods and it turns out the stolen goods don’t show up but the cops show up,” he added, “I think you’re going to have a very weak story saying, ‘Well, I got swindled here.’”

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/...2d6751bc8_video.html

Yeah, he never, never denied having business ties to Russia. Never.

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Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

I didn't like Hillary. Never voted for a Clinton in a primary.

You've been wrong every time.
I'm curious about this. I like being right. If I have been wrong I'd like to know about it. I mean, I won't admit to anyone that I was wrong, but I do like to know about it.

You have an amazing ability to delude yourself. You are defending a charlatan. He isn't a conservative, he doesn't support what you support. Why are you so strong in his defense? If any group should be pushing for impeachment it would seem to me that it would be actual conservatives. He is sinking the Republican party and there is an actual conservative (he even believes in the young earth and creationism for you has strict views on abortion to the point he supports the sham crisis pregnancy centers ) that would be president if Trump were gone.

I always wonder who that last remaining 12% of people that go down with the ship are in politics. Now I know.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

They met with a fucking self-proclaimed Russian government lawyer who claimed to have Crown prosecutor evidence against Hillary Clinton. Who the hell would forget that?

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"Go yell at an M&M"

The other huge difference in these cases is 1) now we have a link between the trump campaign coordinating with russian, 2) in clintons case (I believe) a DNC operative on her own was finding out details about Manaford. I dont think the clinton campaign coordinated with Ukraine.

So essentially what you said, if you 1) want to ignore everything that happened with trump and russia (and this given link), 2) state a DNC operative actions about asking questions at an embassy = a directive from the government, AND 3) make the leap that clintons campaign was coordinating with Ukraine (which isnt proven but you want to take Sean Hannity's word for it), then yes there are comparisons.

With this logic you must admit that Obama was a Muslim Terrorist, since he was good to the Brotherhood, Iran and others while treating our long time friends Israel like crap. You can see the similairities right? Both statements are BS.

He's criticized NATO members for not living up to their obligations. And not living in the modern world. I think both of those are valid complaints. And he's actually gone after Putin for some things while I agree been too soft on others. That doesn't make him a spy or in Russia's pocket any more than Obama was a muslim terrorist.

I'm sure Trump and his associates probably had many business dealings with the Russians and I don't think he or anyone has ever denied that.

“I have no dealings with Russia. I have no deals in Russia. I have no deals that could happen in Russia, because I’ve stayed away,” - Donald J. Trump

“One thing led to another, and now I’m talking about building a large luxury hotel across the street from the Kremlin in partnership with the Soviet government,” the president-elect wrote in his book, Trump: The Art of the Deal.

"Donald Trump Jr. had denied participating in any campaign-related meetings with Russian nationals when he was interviewed by The Times in March. “Did I meet with people that were Russian? I’m sure, I’m sure I did,” he said. “But none that were set up. None that I can think of at the moment. And certainly none that I was representing the campaign in any way, shape or form.” Asked at that time whether he had ever discussed government policies related to Russia, the younger Mr. Trump replied, “A hundred percent no.”

Can't you even see why some people are feeling confused and think the relationship should be investigated?

Obama shot bin Laden in the eye. Did it himself.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

One thing that I'm interested is the follow up to the meeting. I mean if I dragged the campaign manager and brother in law to a phony meeting, I would be kind of pissed.

Unless this whole thing about adoptions is a flat out lie.

Absolutely. I think it should be investigated and it is. I look forward to Muller's findings. I am just saying I think it is just being blown so far out of proportion. So far everything that has been blown up in the media has turned out to be a big fat goose egg. Nada.. Nothing! The Don Jr meeting. agreed.. Shouldn't have happened but still nothing criminal. Unethical.. sure. As for the Trump lies above.. again name one politician who was honest. I am beginning to think if the man sneezes wrong, the media blows up.

So.. whats the end game here? Impeachment? Prosecution? That's the goal right? Been the goal since his inauguration.