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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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ajthomas wrote:
getcereal wrote:
Brian in MA wrote:
Only 52, died unexpectedly after a show in Detroit last night. Such a great vocalist.


https://www.bostonglobe.com/...eCwvlQj7GxK/amp.html


Maybe it is time to open a national dialog on drugs and depression. So sad that a successful talented man with a beautiful wife and kids would get to the point where suicide is the preferred option.


Well we can start with this: most suicide is caused by a lack of impulse control. Drugs exacerbate it. Depression in its worst state causes inaction (catatonia) not suicide. People blame it on depression because it is nicer than saying it was caused by selfishness, thoughtlessness and immaturity. Most of the people who will read this have contemplated suicide at one time or another. Cornell actually doing it doesn't mean that he had a level of depression that you or I never had.

The narrative that his soul was in such pain that he could no longer envision a life worth living is wrong.


I don't know why so many people kill themselves. I have never been close to there. What I have heard is drugs fry your 'happy maker' parts of your brain to the point were life eventually sucks.
I have read interview like this where Chris has talked about dealing with depression:


Dealing with depression
As far as depression, Cornell had said that he had a tendency to “be pretty closed off” and reclusive.
“It’s about trying to step out of being patterned and closed off and reclusive, which I’ve always had a problem with,” he told Rolling Stone. “It’s about attempting to be normal and just go out and be around other people and hang out. I have a tendency to sometimes be pretty closed off and not see people for long periods of time and not call anyone.”
He once described the period before rehab as a time in which he was dealing with the “daily drudgery of depression and either trying to not drink or do drugs or doing them.” In the 2015 interview with Rolling Stone Australia, he said that when he was drinking too much, it “has its own problems, particularly with depression.”
Talking about how his own music had melancholy vibes around the release of 1999’s Euphoria Morning, he told Guitar.com, “I’ve always liked depressing music because a lot of times listening to it when you’re down can actually make you feel less depressed. Also, even though a person may have problems with depression, sometimes you can actually be kind of comfortable in that space because you know how to operate within it.”
Asked if he perceived run-of-the-mill depression as a comfort zone, he replied, “The problem is, no one really knows what run-of-the-mill depression is. You’ll think somebody has run-of-the-mill depression, and then the next thing you know, they’re hanging from a rope. It’s hard to tell the difference. But I do feel that depression can be useful. Sometimes it’s just chemical. It doesn’t seem to come from anywhere. And whenever I’ve been in any kind of depression, I’ve over the years tried to not only imagine what it feels like to not be there, but try to remind myself that I could just wake up the next day and it could be gone because that happens, and not to worry about it. And at the same time, when I’m feeling great, I remember the depression and think about the differences in what I’m feeling and why I would feel that way, and not be reactionary one way or the other. You just have to realize that these are patterns of life and you just go through them.”
https://www.yahoo.com/celebrity/chris-cornell-said-depression-addiction-185856132.html
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Last edited by: Duffy: May 18, 17 17:50
Re: RIP Chris Cornell [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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ajthomas wrote:
getcereal wrote:
Brian in MA wrote:
Only 52, died unexpectedly after a show in Detroit last night. Such a great vocalist.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/...eCwvlQj7GxK/amp.html


Maybe it is time to open a national dialog on drugs and depression. So sad that a successful talented man with a beautiful wife and kids would get to the point where suicide is the preferred option.

Well we can start with this: most suicide is caused by a lack of impulse control. Drugs exacerbate it. Depression in its worst state causes inaction (catatonia) not suicide. People blame it on depression because it is nicer than saying it was caused by selfishness, thoughtlessness and immaturity. Most of the people who will read this have contemplated suicide at one time or another. Cornell actually doing it doesn't mean that he had a level of depression that you or I never had.

The narrative that his soul was in such pain that he could no longer envision a life worth living is wrong.


Everything you wrote is wrong.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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Cornell was the voice of my youth too. Once I heard that he'd passed, I opened up a playlist of his that I keep for when I'm flat, and the first song it played was...'Like Suicide'. I thought he got it pretty right in the lyrics of that one too - that suicide was an overreaction: 'With an ounce of pain, I wield a ton of rage...just like suicide'.

Given that we've recently lost a dear friend's daughter to the black dog of depression, this one really hurts.

I will let you down.
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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [Brian in MA] [ In reply to ]
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Seeing Temple Of The Dog last fall was a dream concert that I never thought I would see. Soundgarden is one of the few bands that I'll buy anything they put out without hearing a note. Thanks for 30+ years of great music, Chris. RIP.
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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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Suicide is caused by emotion driven impulsivity and taking drugs exacerbates the problem. Lots of people are depressed the vast majority do not kill themselves. If you disagree I'll just say the same thing again.
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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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ajthomas wrote:
Suicide is caused by emotion driven impulsivity and taking drugs exacerbates the problem. Lots of people are depressed the vast majority do not kill themselves. If you disagree I'll just say the same thing again.

Well that's convincing!i
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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [OneGoodLeg] [ In reply to ]
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There's a strong like between suicide and substance abuse. That's not a secret, and it shouldn't be controversial.

There's also a link between depression and suicide. Also, not coincidentally, between substance abuse and depression. They feed into each other. Whether the depression comes first or the substance abuse does varies, but they're mutually reinforcing, and result in a downward spiral.

Cornell started abusing drugs as a young teen. If you don't think that played a role in his depression, you're crazy.








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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ajthomas wrote:
Suicide is caused by emotion driven impulsivity and taking drugs exacerbates the problem. Lots of people are depressed the vast majority do not kill themselves. If you disagree I'll just say the same thing again.

Your understanding is flawed and far too simplistic.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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Your logic is too simple and flawed. Lots of people are depressed, most people who are don't kill them themselves. The difference is people who kill themselves act on emotionally driven impulse. I don't care if you disagree, I'll just say the same thing if you do.
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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
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Travis R wrote:
Damn it. Loved his work. Soundgarden was just in Indy last week, and now I really regret not ever getting to see them in concert.

I was in Indy on business last week and went out for a run by my hotel and saw people lining up for a concert. I checked out who it was and considered it random luck it was Soundgarden and then went and caught the show. They sounded great, very shocked to hear about his death.
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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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ajthomas wrote:
getcereal wrote:
Brian in MA wrote:
Only 52, died unexpectedly after a show in Detroit last night. Such a great vocalist.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/...eCwvlQj7GxK/amp.html


Maybe it is time to open a national dialog on drugs and depression. So sad that a successful talented man with a beautiful wife and kids would get to the point where suicide is the preferred option.


Well we can start with this: most suicide is caused by a lack of impulse control. Drugs exacerbate it. Depression in its worst state causes inaction (catatonia) not suicide. People blame it on depression because it is nicer than saying it was caused by selfishness, thoughtlessness and immaturity. Most of the people who will read this have contemplated suicide at one time or another. Cornell actually doing it doesn't mean that he had a level of depression that you or I never had.

The narrative that his soul was in such pain that he could no longer envision a life worth living is wrong.

This guy is absolutely fucking clueless.
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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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What do you mean by impulse?
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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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ajthomas wrote:
I don't care if you disagree, I'll just say the same thing if you do.

Well, points for honesty anyway.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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I think he deserves no points and I will not listen to to any arguments for points. None. NEVER! DON'T DISAGREE WITH ME!!!
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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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ajthomas wrote:
Your logic is too simple and flawed. Lots of people are depressed, most people who are don't kill them themselves. The difference is people who kill themselves act on emotionally driven impulse. I don't care if you disagree, I'll just say the same thing if you do.

And you're the expert...



Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC1277022/

The role of impulsive–aggressive behaviours in risk of suicide has been well substantiated by several lines of evidence, including case–control studies in clinical populations, cohort studies in epidemiological samples, retrospective studies of completed suicides and case registries. The association between impulsive–aggressive behaviours and suicide is primarily seen among young people and seems to be independent from the role of associated axis I psychopathology, particularly major depression. High levels of impulsive–aggressive behaviours have been linked to early life environmental stressors such as childhood abuse and neglect, and these stressors are also more commonly seen among impulsive–aggressive suicides (Fig. 1). In addition, studies of life trajectories of suicides indicate that impulsive–aggressive suicides are likely to have had a trajectory characterized by the cumulative effects of negative life stressors and abuse, suggesting that a subset of suicides may, at least in part, be the result of a dysfunctional developmental cascade with onset early in life and mediated by excessive impulsive–aggressive behaviours. This is interesting because family studies of suicidal behaviour also suggest that these personality traits may mediate familial loading of suicide attempts and completions. Moreover, neurobiological correlates of suicidal behaviour are similar in nature to those reported for patients with impairment of impulse control and violent behaviours, which would further suggest that impulsive–aggressive behaviours may help define a behavioural endophenotype of suicide. This should be taken into account when planning studies investigating molecular genetic factors in suicide. On the other hand, not all suicides are associated with impulsive–aggressive behaviours. There is a need to better understand the mechanisms mediating suicide among individuals with no history of impulsive–aggressive behaviors.









"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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No one disputes impulse control is not a factor. It's far too simplistic to say that it is the factor or even one of only a couple factors.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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In our pharmacology training it was stressed repeatedly that depressives tend to be flat and unmotivated to suicide, and that the introduction of antidepressant medication, particularly among those with bipolar disorder, can generate the stimulus that lead people to enact suicide plans.

Substance abuse and depression feed into and exacerbate each other, regardless of the conditions at root for either.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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Anti-anxiety meds.. possible contributor. This leaves me wondering how committed he was to his own death. Ativan can certainly be dangerous under a number of circumstances, but there are far more potent methods available if your plan is to end it all. (Increased risk of suicide is a known side effect.)

http://www.rollingstone.com/...es-statement-w483179

"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell
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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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Arguing on the internet about why someone no one knows decided to commit suicide.

Well there's a good use of time

Just watched the video of him and his kid singing, can't imagine the carnage this leaves behind
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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [burnman] [ In reply to ]
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Saying most people who are depressed don't commit suicide therefore not a cause is like saying most people who smoke don't get cancer. Therefore smoking doesn't cause cancer. Yeah. If you have ever felt so depressed that life felt empty I think you would understand why some people commit suicide. Whether or not anti-depressives can precipitate suicide by activating people before their anti-depressant effects play in is controversial. It may be that people who get anti-depressives are among the most depressed after all they felt bad enough that they went to the doctor. So the first few weeks after starting a prescription may just be a high risk time. The alternative is to not treat the depressed good luck with that. There are studies that show that cognitive behavioural treatment is just as effective as anti-depressants so if someone is really reluctant to try meds go that route. Most people however seem to either not want to pay for it (expensive) and it takes effort too.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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The role of impulsive–aggressive behaviours in risk of suicide has been well substantiated by several lines of evidence, including case–control studies in clinical populations, cohort studies in epidemiological samples, retrospective studies of completed suicides and case registries. The association between impulsive–aggressive behaviours and suicide is primarily seen among young people and seems to be independent from the role of associated axis I psychopathology, particularly major depression. High levels of impulsive–aggressive behaviours have been linked to early life environmental stressors such as childhood abuse and neglect, and these stressors are also more commonly seen among impulsive–aggressive suicides (Fig. 1). In addition, studies of life trajectories of suicides indicate that impulsive–aggressive suicides are likely to have had a trajectory characterized by the cumulative effects of negative life stressors and abuse, suggesting that a subset of suicides may, at least in part, be the result of a dysfunctional developmental cascade with onset early in life and mediated by excessive impulsive–aggressive behaviours. This is interesting because family studies of suicidal behaviour also suggest that these personality traits may mediate familial loading of suicide attempts and completions. Moreover, neurobiological correlates of suicidal behaviour are similar in nature to those reported for patients with impairment of impulse control and violent behaviours, which would further suggest that impulsive–aggressive behaviours may help define a behavioural endophenotype of suicide. This should be taken into account when planning studies investigating molecular genetic factors in suicide. On the other hand, not all suicides are associated with impulsive–aggressive behaviours. There is a need to better understand the mechanisms mediating suicide among individuals with no history of impulsive–aggressive behaviors.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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ChrisM wrote:
Arguing on the internet about why someone no one knows decided to commit suicide.

Well there's a good use of time

Just watched the video of him and his kid singing, can't imagine the carnage this leaves behind

When the first ms veganerd died by her own hand, i was so focused on helping our daughter, that i completely lost sight of my own mental health and ended up in a deep pit of depression that, ironically, made me a bad father. It took an intervention and some hard work to get out of it.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: RIP Chris Cornell [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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So? Post 26 that started the discussion regarding role of depression did not make a categorical claim, rather it stated "most suicide."

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
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