I'm a huge Josh fan as well. I actually just sold my pair on eBay and I did use Silca 25mm rim tape on the set and it worked well. I prefer it because it is thinner and a bit easier to get on the tires, but frankly that is one benefit to the Roval, they aren't terribly difficult to get tires on to in the first place.

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

Thanks again, Tom. I just ordered their tape & valves. Didn't pull the trigger on the $36 balancing kit, though, because I want them to respect me in the morning.

Interesting thing about the balance kit...I don't even need it for my Hed Jets, since the rim extrusion plug opposite the valve hole naturally balances the setup when a tubeless valve is installed...in other words, the lack of balance thing is a full-carbon clincher problem ;-)

---

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Wow, Tom A. Thanks for that. I didn't even think about that. I guess my HED JET Black+ is now really approaching a full carbon clincer weight level without the need for the balancing kit. Just another benefit of the HED JET+

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

I don't have a balancing kit either. I have the speed valves, speed tape, and Hiro but I do have my eye on some more of their offerings. What I really want is a travel size pump to replace my Lezyne Travel Pump with a more accurate gauge, and a longer hose. I have talked to Josh about it briefly. Hoping he can deliver at some point.

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

A couple notes on our tubeless set-up (saw you already bought another valve and tape, but addressing for others with the same question):

The valves that are supplied with the rims are built specifically for the rim depth/valve hole - so essentially they are the best possible valve for each wheel to prevent any balancing or sealing issues. Other valves will work, though they're made to be more universal in length and valve hole diameter.

The spoke-hole plugs are comparable in weight to the lightest rim strip on the market, but the team selected this solution from a durability standpoint (no issues with tape peeling, installation, blow through, or heat) and the ability to remove only one plug to address any spoke issues.

I'll try them too for sure. Thanks, Cam.

My $0.02: your best bet is a Specialized Air Compact pump and then a digital gauge that can bleed like this one, or this one if you want to be super super accurate, or you can build you own starting here.

Chris,

As far as I'm aware, Zipp's testing shows stall angles much closer to 15 for firecrest 808s, and 17-18 for NSW 808 wheels. I'm kind of suspect of the data you just put out on that basis. Would you say tire selection has that much of an impact to negatively affect stall angle?

I know I'm not the guy you asked but, from looking at lots of wind tunnel reports I'd say that's a safe guess. Take a look at Flo's interactive chart and select the GP4000S II and the Supersonic (both 23mm). Notice the (dramatic) difference in the stall point.

This is a bit off topic, but is there any rotational power loss from an imbalanced wheel? Now that I think about it, and my coffe is starting to kick in, there would be series of accelerations and deceleration as the point of imbalance moved from the top of the wheel to the bottom and vice versa.

I assume there is a formula that would give force as a function of the mass of the imbalance, distance from the axle, and rotational speed. Would you have a decent reference or know the formula. My knowledge of the problem runs out at F=ma.

Not looking for an argument or to derail the thread, but I strongly disagree with the recommendation for that $300 digital gauge. The other 'gauge' linked was the same air pump as the first link. Since bike tires are relatively low volume, you're going to lose quite a bit of pressure just by attaching the hose. You would have to put an extra 10-20 psi in the tire before you attach that gauge to ultimately get the numbers you want. Maybe even more. Kind of the same concept as attaching a suspension pump to your mt. bike and 'seeing' the pressure a lot lower than where you started; it's due to the hose being filled with air from the tire. While we might all be playing with different definitions of accurate, pumps tend to be more accurate at higher pressures vs. lower pressures so a gauge may not be necessary for road tires. The ST crowd seems to like to go beyond that though. I would recommend the ~$25 SKS airchecker. I have the Topeak Smartgauge D2 as well, but don't like that it doesn't go down to 0.5 psi increments. You can bleed from the SKS with the orange button, but the attachment/removal process only loses ~1.0 psi each time when playing around with low volume tires at 90+ psi. It's easier to do it that way (1 handed) than fart around with a bleed button. Then you (not directly you) have $275 laying around as a down payment on a trainer desk/tray.

I can't comment on the gauge accuracy of the Specialized pump, but my friend has it and I think it's a great option for the size when the Jeep was packed full of our CX crap. I had no idea it was $100 though! I would just throw a few pumps in and then use my gauge, but it was pretty strong for how small it was.

Good point about the hose, I hadn't considered that!

Re Specialized pump: I doubt it's accurate. For me I like how it folds up because I often put it inside my Scicon Aerotech Evolution where space is at a serious premium.

Yeah, it folds up really well! Plus a lot of full size pumps have metal bases (often with sharp edges) that will mess up everything they touch in your vehicle.

Theoretically, yes...but the amount of imbalance would need to be massive for it to be anything appreciable.

A few years back I picked up a cheapo set of "spoke lights" at Costco. These things are a fairly large electronics pods with LEDs and batteries that you attach to the wheel, and as you're riding the LEDs "draw out" a pattern that appears to fill the entire wheel as it rotates. Obviously, putting one of thes devices on a wheel causes a pretty large imbalance. I put them front and rear on my commuter bike to increase nighttime visibility. Occasionally, I would notice the imbalance, like when I "descended" the freeway overpass on the way to work, but it was really only bad if the front and rear happened to be in phase with the imbalance. When that happened, it created a noticeable "fore-aft" surging that wasn't very confidence inspiring, and also probably dissipated energy in my butt and hands.

But, like I said, that was a HUGE imbalance.

---

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Did you mean YUGE?

Bigly :-)

---

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Hello dangle,

We need a pressure measuring device like a durometer to read bicycle tire pressure by pushing on the tire .... like with your thumb ... but accurately ..... might need to be keyed to each tire type to account for sidewall thickness and temperature and ?????? .....

"A durometer gauge or durometer tester is needed to perform a durometer hardness test procedure. Durometer devices determine the surface hardness of many different materials, including polymers and elastomers. Each durometer or hardness tester measures the depth of an indentation in the material caused by a defined force of a given geometric presser foot. The depth of the indentation reflects the hardness of the material. A general distinction is made between static and dynamic methods. In traditional static tests, the test force is applied uniformly with increasing magnitude, while in dynamic testing methods, an instantaneous load is applied."


It would be a more direct measurement of tire deflection where the rubber meets the road instead of an indirect measurement using air pressure and be quick and easy without the loss of air pressure.

---

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

You guys talked me into it

Just ordered a set from my lbs with 24 turbo cotton tires.

Should be in next week

Did you go with the 50s? The turbo cottons are the best tire out there...you are going to love them especially with some latex tubes!

But running tubeless with the plugs is also a badazz setup

I just picked up a CLX 64 front wheel for my Felt IA. After reading the white paper and the answers to questions from the engineers on this thread it seems clear to me that this should be the most popular wheel in triathlon. Faster, lighter and more then $400 less expensive than an 808 NSW? I'm in. Gonna run a jet disc plus on the rear. I've heard rumors you guys have a disc coming out in a few months but I need one sooner, and $/performance for the Hed is tough to beat.

---

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Circling back around on this topic. Did you ever get a chance to try the spoke-hole plugs? If so were they on the CLX 50 or CLX 64? And lastly, how much do the plugs weigh? Any thoughts on the setup.

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

can we discuss also braking performance - since in the past Roval used to struggle with it and since both enve and zipp nsw improved their brake track

I'm not the poster to whom you were replying, but I did have the chance to run the spoke-hole plugs on CLX50s for a few thousand miles. They work great! I am sure that I wrote down the weight of them somewhere but I can't find it at the moment; they're lighter than rim tape. (I've used them for Roval MTB wheels, too.)

I run tubeless MTB setups for a long, long time and have had no problem with tape, but I like the weight savings of the plugs.


The worked just find on the road.


As above....thousands of miles testing the CLX50s and no issues with braking. I have ridden Enves over the years and have many, many thousands of miles on Zipps (though only limited riding on wheels with the new Zipp brake track). The CLX50 brake tracks with Swisstop pads were as good or better than any wheel with a carbon brake track I've ridden. Full power with 1 finger is possible.

FWIW, I live at the base of a 5+ mile, 10% mountain pass that I consider to be a good test of power and modulation. The standard Zipp braketrack has never left me wanting for more, so as long as I have that or better I'm happy.

I have tested *mostly* in dry conditions -- no monsoons.

A friend who has more miles on wheels with the Firestrike/NSW-style braketrack than I have has told me braking power exceeds that of the standard Zipp, but they burn up brake pads at a far higher rate.

Rim plugs save about 30-35g per wheel so that 60-70g on a wheelset is actually quite a big difference.