No argument there.

It won't last though.

I was thinking the opposite. Getting a pwoer meter has exposed the flaws in using HR for pacing and measuring intensity with any accuracy.

My last 20 minute power test in May is a perfect example (I have lots of these). It wasn;t paced perfectly, but made for a good example. I actually went out a little too easy and my power continuously increased over the duration.

Ave. power: 321W
Ave HR: 158

Ave HR last 5': 172
Ave power last 5' - 341W

I can tell you without a doubt that my threshold HR is NOT 158. Its' probably closer to 172. It took 7:00 to rise from 115 to 158. So I was riding above threshold power for 7' and my average HR was only 145.

SO what exactly is HR telling me? That I have a good aerobic base? I suppose there's some value in that. How slow my HR changes is a good comparative measure of fitness, but not all that accurate. Plus I don;t need a measurement of my aerobic base. It's not like I have some mythical number I'm training towards. I try to achieve the highest fitness level possible. I can compare my fitness one period to the next by the power numbers I achieve in training.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

I quote you below. When did you change your mind?

In Reply To: what's the point of tracking one's W/BPM?
""Assuming constant thermodynamic efficiency, VO2 is proportional to power, so power:heart rate is proportional to VO2:heart rate. In turn, VO2:heart rate is proportional to the product of stroke volume and a-vO2 difference (i.e., O2 pulse). Thus, an improvement in power:heart rate is indicative of an increase in stroke volume and/or a-vO2 difference (and/or an increase in thermodynamic efficiency). That's why I've been recording my power:heart rate during ergometer workouts for >20 y.""


http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...t=search_engine#last

I quote below:
"I think it better I stop posting"

I thought you left because people asked you questions and you refuse to provide detailed answers. You hound people for decade old quotes (that you often take out of context) but don't live up to that same rifle in your responses to questions.

I have not taken anything out of context. I'm asking when Dr Coggan stopped using heart rate with power and why.

I'm obviously referring to your collection of posts and quotes and links etc. Not just your most recent post.

But, I am interested in how you manage training with heart rate, power and feel. Please elaborate for all of us to learn.

Andrew, please stop calling me a Troll.

You looked at heart rate alongside power for some 20 years. Certainly up until at least 2007. When did you discard using heart rate?

Were you the one who dug up that thread? Something isn't adding up here.

I do all my training indoors, other than running. I use a Concept2 for rowing, a Wattbike for cycling. I look at power and heart rate. Running I look at pace/ heart rate. But for me feel always comes first.

In particular I look at power:heart rate ratio. Due to an illness and resulting recovery problems I am unable to do maximal tests very often.

Probably due to the consistent conditions in which I train, I'm able to track my progress by comparing watts / heart rate over the various durations.

If you are genuinely interested in what I do please send me a PM.

Regularly? Probably around 2006 or so, when my heart rate strap died and I couldn't think of a good reason to replace it.

I did dig up and old one and wear it during one workout earlier this year, though...but it didn't tell me anything I didn't already know.

Again, that doesn't answer anything. Why the reluctance to give details publicly? You are outspoken about a system that has helped simplify training for thousands of people, but can't say anything more than you go by feel and look at hr:power ratios.

What I'm more interested in is why two posters on here are both using a cryptic reference to a soviet era leader??

Thank you.

In all those years in which you did look at heart rate and power did you learn anything?

Some bro science I did today:



I next plan to compute an EWMA of kilojoules and see how it compares

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

More bro science:

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Ok pretty interesting here, I wish I had more known-clean data to work with, as it is I have about 5 months of my own data and 12 months of my wife's data.

Wife's data, when CTL is up, so is a weighted moving average of kilojoules, training makeup was pretty consistent in other words, and they predict performance similarly well.


with my own data, I had a pretty big shift in training makeup, kilojoules trending down while CTL trends up. Performance was also trending up while CTL was.

So CTL does a so-so job of predict my 2013 performance, a weighted moving average of kilojoules completely fails.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

EWMA is ?

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age is just a number after your name

So the way CTL works is it is an "exponentially weighted moving average" of your tss each day. Something like this is important if you want some day to day number that represents you current state of training load. Because the worksouts you did 3 months ago still have a bearing on your current state of fitness, just not very much. The ones 2 months ago matter, a bit more, and your training in the current month matter quite a bit. So you can't just average your last ~100 days of TSS/kilojoules or your last month or your metric will not reflect reality at all (I tried this, but it is also intuitive)

So if I want to compare how TSS performs vs kilojoules as a basis for a training load metric, I need to also do a EWMA of kilojoules to compare it vs CTL

which is what I did here on my data and my wife's data:
http://blog.aeroweenie.com/...-of-performance.html

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter