Is there a significant difference in aerodynamics between ski and s bends?
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Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [trithink]
[ In reply to ]
one your hands are on them, there is no significant difference. whether one or the other was more aero would probably depend on the details of your position, hands, and particular bend of bars.
Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [jackmott]
[ In reply to ]
I was just fitted on my new P5, which came with ski bends. My LBS offered to switch them out for me, but since I have had some wrist/hand numbness on occassion, I decided to give the ski bends a try. Are there any other reasons for me to reconsider this decision or should comfort be the final determinant?
Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [trithink]
[ In reply to ]
In general, ski bends put your hands in a more aero position.
Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [Nick_Barkley]
[ In reply to ]
Nick_Barkley wrote:
In general, ski bends put your hands in a more aero position.Data to support this?
Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [trithink]
[ In reply to ]
Since the aerodynamics are a tiny detail that can't really be determined for sure without time in a wind tunnel, comfort should really be the priority.
So there is no reason to reconsider in my opinion.
Ski bends are only unpopular because they look less aero when nobody is actually using them =)
Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
So there is no reason to reconsider in my opinion.
Ski bends are only unpopular because they look less aero when nobody is actually using them =)
trithink wrote:
I was just fitted on my new P5, which came with ski bends. My LBS offered to switch them out for me, but since I have had some wrist/hand numbness on occassion, I decided to give the ski bends a try. Are there any other reasons for me to reconsider this decision or should comfort be the final determinant?Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [Nick_Barkley]
[ In reply to ]
Nick_Barkley wrote:
In general, ski bends put your hands in a more aero position.Although I'm not sure where the info came from I had heard that many rider generate more power with ski bends.
Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [bricklayer]
[ In reply to ]
bricklayer wrote:
Nick_Barkley wrote:
In general, ski bends put your hands in a more aero position.Data to support this?
I do not wish to share this data.
Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [trithink]
[ In reply to ]
The best bars are the ones that make you feel the most comfortable. Don't worry about any other data piece.
Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [jackmott]
[ In reply to ]
I recall a thread a while back, perhaps one of Jordan's *ask me anything about IMxx* threads, where he was asked why he switched over to ski-bends from s-bends, and the answer was that Tom A. convinced him that ski-bends are more aero. How's that for science :)
Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [trithink]
[ In reply to ]
I guess I was looking for some hard core data, but it's really comfort/personal preference. Since I went with the ski bends, I'll just go with the idea that they're more areo... until I switch back to s bends.
Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [Nick_Barkley]
[ In reply to ]
Nick_Barkley wrote:
I do not wish to share THESE data.
fixed it for you
Your data, though kept in secret, are still plural.
Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [TheBeek]
[ In reply to ]
TheBeek wrote:
Your data, though kept in secret, are still plural.http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/data
"Usage Discussion of DATA
Data leads a life of its own quite independent of datum, of which it was originally the plural. It occurs in two constructions: as a plural noun (like earnings), taking a plural verb and plural modifiers (as these, many, a few) but not cardinal numbers, and serving as a referent for plural pronouns (as they, them); and as an abstract mass noun (like information), taking a singular verb and singular modifiers (as this, much, little), and being referred to by a singular pronoun (it). Both constructions are standard."
Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [Steve Irwin]
[ In reply to ]
yeah, well....
webster can suck it (and them)
webster can suck it (and them)
Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [TheBeek]
[ In reply to ]
it also depends on what field of engineering you fall under, I know chemE's tend to block data as a singular entity while mechE's tend to treat them as plural. six of one... half dozen of the other...
Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [trithink]
[ In reply to ]
The most aero are the ones you are going to stay in. Fidgeting around or sitting up because your wrists hurt is not aero.
And just because Webster says "data" used in the singular is standard doesn't mean it is correct. The singular is datum. Anybody knows that. Anyone arguing the contrary just looks worse in my eyes. I am a scientist by trade and just fake it as a triathlete.
And just because Webster says "data" used in the singular is standard doesn't mean it is correct. The singular is datum. Anybody knows that. Anyone arguing the contrary just looks worse in my eyes. I am a scientist by trade and just fake it as a triathlete.
Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [thebanana]
[ In reply to ]
I'm a biologist.
Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [trithink]
[ In reply to ]
I remember an article by Tom Demerly about different bend options. His was more about hand position and comfort than about aerodynamics. He felt the ski bend extentions put your wrist at a more natural/comfortable position.
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Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [jackmott]
[ In reply to ]
jackmott wrote:
Since the aerodynamics are a tiny detail that can't really be determined for sure without time in a wind tunnel, comfort should really be the priority. So there is no reason to reconsider in my opinion.
Ski bends are only unpopular because they look less aero when nobody is actually using them =)
trithink wrote:
I was just fitted on my new P5, which came with ski bends. My LBS offered to switch them out for me, but since I have had some wrist/hand numbness on occassion, I decided to give the ski bends a try. Are there any other reasons for me to reconsider this decision or should comfort be the final determinant?I've been thinking of switching to ski bends a lot lately for this very reason. I have some tendon issues that make S bends rather uncomfortable, especially at effort, and I first was concerned that I'd be losing a lot of aerodynamics.
But it seems to me like truly MOST aero thing is whatever lets you STAY in aero position for most of the ride. So if ski bends offer comfort that lets you do this while s bends don't, it seems like ski bends are both more comfortable AND more aero, at least for you and no mater what ideal wind tunnel data suggests.
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Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [javelinguy]
[ In reply to ]
javelinguy wrote:
I remember an article by Tom Demerly about different bend options. His was more about hand position and comfort than about aerodynamics. He felt the ski bend extentions put your wrist at a more natural/comfortable position.The article by Demerly also showed an x-ray of the hand positions on the different bars. The hand position he showed in his pictures looks nothing like the hand position I have in my S-bends though.
I agree, comfort is key. One issue I've seen with ski bends is that you don't get much room to move around (forward and back). The S-bends give you that option.
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Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [MonkeyClaw]
[ In reply to ]
assuming both are comfy for you, and if you wanted to get semi-scientific about it, you could take head on photos of each and see if you can eyeball or photoshop the frontal area of each option.
Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [MonkeyClaw]
[ In reply to ]
This partly depends on the event. For a TT or 40km or less, I don't care much about comfort, I can suffer through a little wrist discomfort if it more powerful or more aero, or both. For a a half or IM than comfort is way more imortant than a few seconds of aero.
Styrrell
Styrrell
Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [vikingmd]
[ In reply to ]
[quote vikingmd
Although I'm not sure where the info came from I had heard that many rider generate more power with ski bends.[/quote]
I find it the other way around... more power with s bends than ski bends. I just switched to s bends and I "feel" I can generate more power and get more leverage. I haven't done any kind of tests to back this theory up though.
blog
Although I'm not sure where the info came from I had heard that many rider generate more power with ski bends.[/quote]
I find it the other way around... more power with s bends than ski bends. I just switched to s bends and I "feel" I can generate more power and get more leverage. I haven't done any kind of tests to back this theory up though.
blog
Re: Which is more areo, ski or s bend? [styrrell]
[ In reply to ]
I am really interested in this thread, since I just purchased my first Tri bike. It came with Vision's Trimax Carbon clip-on CSI F.A.S.T. system (over a Trimax base bar)... Anyways the extensions are the R-bend (their name for the S-bend). I find to be hard on the wrists, and plan to do HIM's.
I would like to try the Vision J-bend (again, their name for the ski bend), but am unclear on where you can order just the replacement exension???
I would like to try the Vision J-bend (again, their name for the ski bend), but am unclear on where you can order just the replacement exension???
styrrell wrote:
This partly depends on the event. For a TT or 40km or less, I don't care much about comfort, I can suffer through a little wrist discomfort if it more powerful or more aero, or both. For a a half or IM than comfort is way more imortant than a few seconds of aero.I'd agree in principle, except you still have to train on them also. I could put up with 40km worth, but found that the s-bends were making my wrists sore while training.