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Re: Adversity Score: I see some adversity coming for the SAT [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
So I'll rent my kid(s) an apartment in Englewood assuming it is still a bad neighborhood in 18 to 20 years, use that as the mailing address for SAT and boom a high adversity score

Yup, as is usually the case, with money you can find away to take advantage of things.

You seem to think that someone's up bringing and school district and parent income does not impact how much they can learn? Yet I have a feeling if you have kids you made sure that you lived in a good school district or put them through private school.

Seems pretty clear to me, someone from a family with less money, or a bad school district who scores as well as someone from a better situation, has more potential, and given more will go even further.

Just Triing
Liking ST more since finding the block user post option.
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
GM employee, The views and comments posted are my own and in no way reflect those of GM. - Required legalize from employer.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
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Re: Adversity Score: I see some adversity coming for the SAT [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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It's already been demonstrated that by end of first year of med school in UK kids from inner city schools with worse grades than kids at Eton test out at same level


Fact is, an A from Highland Park is not the same as an A from the south side, in fact its probably not even the same as a B-


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/health/medical-students-doctors-poor-students-disadvantaged-a-levels-bad-grades-a8365776.html%3famp
Last edited by: Andrewmc: May 17, 19 13:25
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Re: Adversity Score: I see some adversity coming for the SAT [DavHamm] [ In reply to ]
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DavHamm wrote:
windywave wrote:
So I'll rent my kid(s) an apartment in Englewood assuming it is still a bad neighborhood in 18 to 20 years, use that as the mailing address for SAT and boom a high adversity score

Yup, as is usually the case, with money you can find away to take advantage of things.

You seem to think that someone's up bringing and school district and parent income does not impact how much they can learn? Yet I have a feeling if you have kids you made sure that you lived in a good school district or put them through private school.

Seems pretty clear to me, someone from a family with less money, or a bad school district who scores as well as someone from a better situation, has more potential, and given more will go even further.

That's what college admissions counselors, personal statements and interviews are for. This is just a gibberish number that can't actually tell you shit.
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Re: Adversity Score: I see some adversity coming for the SAT [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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Andrewmc wrote:
It's already been demonstrated that by end of first year of med school in UK kids from inner city schools with worse grades than kids at Eton test out at same level


Fact is, an A from Highland Park is not the same as an A from the south side, in fact its probably not even the same as a B-


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/health/medical-students-doctors-poor-students-disadvantaged-a-levels-bad-grades-a8365776.html%3famp

WTF are you talking about? HP is an infinitely harder school and more competitive meaning an A there is harder to achieve
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Re: Adversity Score: I see some adversity coming for the SAT [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
So I'll rent my kid(s) an apartment in Englewood assuming it is still a bad neighborhood in 18 to 20 years, use that as the mailing address for SAT and boom a high adversity score

Perhaps you should buy them a water polo hat too.
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Re: Adversity Score: I see some adversity coming for the SAT [Moonrocket] [ In reply to ]
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Moonrocket wrote:
windywave wrote:
So I'll rent my kid(s) an apartment in Englewood assuming it is still a bad neighborhood in 18 to 20 years, use that as the mailing address for SAT and boom a high adversity score

Perhaps you should buy them a water polo hat too.

There's a difference between gaming a system and cheating
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Re: Adversity Score: I see some adversity coming for the SAT [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
DavHamm wrote:
windywave wrote:
So I'll rent my kid(s) an apartment in Englewood assuming it is still a bad neighborhood in 18 to 20 years, use that as the mailing address for SAT and boom a high adversity score


Yup, as is usually the case, with money you can find away to take advantage of things.

You seem to think that someone's up bringing and school district and parent income does not impact how much they can learn? Yet I have a feeling if you have kids you made sure that you lived in a good school district or put them through private school.

Seems pretty clear to me, someone from a family with less money, or a bad school district who scores as well as someone from a better situation, has more potential, and given more will go even further.


That's what college admissions counselors, personal statements and interviews are for. This is just a gibberish number that can't actually tell you shit.

Its a number based on 12 social / economic / geographic data from the persons life. Not sure why you think it is gibberish, then again the actual SAT score is pretty much gibberish. Its pretty well documented with tutoring you can raise the score significantly.. does that mean the kid is any smarter.. nope just that they learned to take a test. I think a good argument could be made the adversity number is more informative along with grades and other stuff, the the actual SAT scores.

I am a person who generally think more data is good, so this is just another piece of the pie.

Oh and on those admissions counselors (I'll ignore personal statements as proven if you have money you pay to have an editor "edit" your work for what they want) so how does that counselor evaluate the kid who is to poor to go to the college visit?

I probably took a week or more off of work, drove thousands of miles, for each of my kids college admissions, and flew one kid to one school. Many kids don't have that resource.

Funny thing apparently 50 universities have been beta testing this for a few years, and all seem pretty happy with the results.

Just Triing
Liking ST more since finding the block user post option.
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
GM employee, The views and comments posted are my own and in no way reflect those of GM. - Required legalize from employer.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
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Re: Adversity Score: I see some adversity coming for the SAT [DavHamm] [ In reply to ]
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DavHamm wrote:
windywave wrote:
DavHamm wrote:
windywave wrote:
So I'll rent my kid(s) an apartment in Englewood assuming it is still a bad neighborhood in 18 to 20 years, use that as the mailing address for SAT and boom a high adversity score


Yup, as is usually the case, with money you can find away to take advantage of things.

You seem to think that someone's up bringing and school district and parent income does not impact how much they can learn? Yet I have a feeling if you have kids you made sure that you lived in a good school district or put them through private school.

Seems pretty clear to me, someone from a family with less money, or a bad school district who scores as well as someone from a better situation, has more potential, and given more will go even further.


That's what college admissions counselors, personal statements and interviews are for. This is just a gibberish number that can't actually tell you shit.

Its a number based on 12 social / economic / geographic data from the persons life. Not sure why you think it is gibberish, then again the actual SAT score is pretty much gibberish. Its pretty well documented with tutoring you can raise the score significantly.. does that mean the kid is any smarter.. nope just that they learned to take a test. I think a good argument could be made the adversity number is more informative along with grades and other stuff, the the actual SAT scores.

I am a person who generally think more data is good, so this is just another piece of the pie.

Oh and on those admissions counselors (I'll ignore personal statements as proven if you have money you pay to have an editor "edit" your work for what they want) so how does that counselor evaluate the kid who is to poor to go to the college visit?

I probably took a week or more off of work, drove thousands of miles, for each of my kids college admissions, and flew one kid to one school. Many kids don't have that resource.

Funny thing apparently 50 universities have been beta testing this for a few years, and all seem pretty happy with the results.

Arguendo I live in the best high school district in IL. Further, let's say I have a nephew or niece who comes to live with me in their junior year to go said high school but to do so has to leave the hard scrabble salt mines of southern Illinois to do so, leaving behind her alcoholic absent divorced dirt poor parents. The niece gets fucked over because of my zip code. You think that's legitimate?

What about the parents that do EVERYTHING they can to get their kids into Hales Franciscan (look it up, if you're looking for a charity it's phenomenal). Those kids get fucked because they go to a good HS.

You're a data whore? So am I, but I also hate bogus bullshit data especially agenda driven garbage.
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Re: Adversity Score: I see some adversity coming for the SAT [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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We should just base admissions on race, because, you know some races are incapable of succeeding without our help.

- The thrall alone takes instant vengeance; the coward never...
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Re: Adversity Score: I see some adversity coming for the SAT [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
DavHamm wrote:
windywave wrote:
DavHamm wrote:
windywave wrote:
So I'll rent my kid(s) an apartment in Englewood assuming it is still a bad neighborhood in 18 to 20 years, use that as the mailing address for SAT and boom a high adversity score


Yup, as is usually the case, with money you can find away to take advantage of things.

You seem to think that someone's up bringing and school district and parent income does not impact how much they can learn? Yet I have a feeling if you have kids you made sure that you lived in a good school district or put them through private school.

Seems pretty clear to me, someone from a family with less money, or a bad school district who scores as well as someone from a better situation, has more potential, and given more will go even further.


That's what college admissions counselors, personal statements and interviews are for. This is just a gibberish number that can't actually tell you shit.


Its a number based on 12 social / economic / geographic data from the persons life. Not sure why you think it is gibberish, then again the actual SAT score is pretty much gibberish. Its pretty well documented with tutoring you can raise the score significantly.. does that mean the kid is any smarter.. nope just that they learned to take a test. I think a good argument could be made the adversity number is more informative along with grades and other stuff, the the actual SAT scores.

I am a person who generally think more data is good, so this is just another piece of the pie.

Oh and on those admissions counselors (I'll ignore personal statements as proven if you have money you pay to have an editor "edit" your work for what they want) so how does that counselor evaluate the kid who is to poor to go to the college visit?

I probably took a week or more off of work, drove thousands of miles, for each of my kids college admissions, and flew one kid to one school. Many kids don't have that resource.

Funny thing apparently 50 universities have been beta testing this for a few years, and all seem pretty happy with the results.


Arguendo I live in the best high school district in IL. Further, let's say I have a nephew or niece who comes to live with me in their junior year to go said high school but to do so has to leave the hard scrabble salt mines of southern Illinois to do so, leaving behind her alcoholic absent divorced dirt poor parents. The niece gets fucked over because of my zip code. You think that's legitimate?

What about the parents that do EVERYTHING they can to get their kids into Hales Franciscan (look it up, if you're looking for a charity it's phenomenal). Those kids get fucked because they go to a good HS.

You're a data whore? So am I, but I also hate bogus bullshit data especially agenda driven garbage.

nothing is perfect, what if your complete idiot and happen to guess and get a perfect score on the SAT? How does that compare to the kid who is an avg student but mommy and daddy spend $5k on a tutor who gets you a perfect score.. and on and on.. showing that something isn't perfect doesn't show that it has no value..

Just Triing
Liking ST more since finding the block user post option.
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
GM employee, The views and comments posted are my own and in no way reflect those of GM. - Required legalize from employer.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
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Re: Adversity Score: I see some adversity coming for the SAT [DavHamm] [ In reply to ]
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DavHamm wrote:
windywave wrote:
DavHamm wrote:
windywave wrote:
DavHamm wrote:
windywave wrote:
So I'll rent my kid(s) an apartment in Englewood assuming it is still a bad neighborhood in 18 to 20 years, use that as the mailing address for SAT and boom a high adversity score


Yup, as is usually the case, with money you can find away to take advantage of things.

You seem to think that someone's up bringing and school district and parent income does not impact how much they can learn? Yet I have a feeling if you have kids you made sure that you lived in a good school district or put them through private school.

Seems pretty clear to me, someone from a family with less money, or a bad school district who scores as well as someone from a better situation, has more potential, and given more will go even further.


That's what college admissions counselors, personal statements and interviews are for. This is just a gibberish number that can't actually tell you shit.


Its a number based on 12 social / economic / geographic data from the persons life. Not sure why you think it is gibberish, then again the actual SAT score is pretty much gibberish. Its pretty well documented with tutoring you can raise the score significantly.. does that mean the kid is any smarter.. nope just that they learned to take a test. I think a good argument could be made the adversity number is more informative along with grades and other stuff, the the actual SAT scores.

I am a person who generally think more data is good, so this is just another piece of the pie.

Oh and on those admissions counselors (I'll ignore personal statements as proven if you have money you pay to have an editor "edit" your work for what they want) so how does that counselor evaluate the kid who is to poor to go to the college visit?

I probably took a week or more off of work, drove thousands of miles, for each of my kids college admissions, and flew one kid to one school. Many kids don't have that resource.

Funny thing apparently 50 universities have been beta testing this for a few years, and all seem pretty happy with the results.


Arguendo I live in the best high school district in IL. Further, let's say I have a nephew or niece who comes to live with me in their junior year to go said high school but to do so has to leave the hard scrabble salt mines of southern Illinois to do so, leaving behind her alcoholic absent divorced dirt poor parents. The niece gets fucked over because of my zip code. You think that's legitimate?

What about the parents that do EVERYTHING they can to get their kids into Hales Franciscan (look it up, if you're looking for a charity it's phenomenal). Those kids get fucked because they go to a good HS.

You're a data whore? So am I, but I also hate bogus bullshit data especially agenda driven garbage.

nothing is perfect, what if your complete idiot and happen to guess and get a perfect score on the SAT? How does that compare to the kid who is an avg student but mommy and daddy spend $5k on a tutor who gets you a perfect score.. and on and on.. showing that something isn't perfect doesn't show that it has no value..

There is a difference between not perfect and a foundational flaw.

Take a different example... Evanston... million dollar homes on the lake... crack houses in other areas... same HS.... how do you do the adversity score there. The whole thing lacks intellectual integrity and will end up fucking over deserving kids.
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Re: Adversity Score: I see some adversity coming for the SAT [Guffaw] [ In reply to ]
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And... this is kaput

Although there is a different evaluation they are going to try
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Re: Adversity Score: I see some adversity coming for the SAT [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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...probably the same goal while obfuscating the processes and not being so public about it.
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Re: Adversity Score: I see some adversity coming for the SAT [Guffaw] [ In reply to ]
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Reading through the posts on this thread made me think of the next steps. Let’s say little Johnny gets his score altered in such a way that he is a shoe in for the dream school. How does he actually pay for it? Or do we also have an alternate pay schedule he him as well. Well of course we do. Or do we further hamper the group we are expecting to help with even more college tuition debt?
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Re: Adversity Score: I see some adversity coming for the SAT [TooSlow] [ In reply to ]
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If his score is sufficient to get him in and he comes from a less affluent background, I'd guess he does not end up paying retail
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Re: Adversity Score: I see some adversity coming for the SAT [TooSlow] [ In reply to ]
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TooSlow wrote:
Or do we further hamper the group we are expecting to help with even more college tuition debt?

The idea is that the college education is worth more than the money spent to get that education. So "further hamper" is an interesting word choice when that's going on.
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Re: Adversity Score: I see some adversity coming for the SAT [TooSlow] [ In reply to ]
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TooSlow wrote:
Reading through the posts on this thread made me think of the next steps. Let’s say little Johnny gets his score altered in such a way that he is a shoe in for the dream school. How does he actually pay for it? Or do we also have an alternate pay schedule he him as well. Well of course we do. Or do we further hamper the group we are expecting to help with even more college tuition debt?

As I understand it, at competitive schools, getting in is about a whole host of things beyond your test scores (e.g. could be race, socioeconomic status, where you're from, did your parents go to college, did they go to that institution, do they donate to that institution, do you play sports, other extra curriculars, etc.). Sometimes folks act like these test scores are the be all, end all of college admission. Where ever your kid gets into school, most likely there were a bunch of kids with higher scores that didn't get in and bunch of kids with lower scores that did.

E.g. our small rural, Maine HS school has a good track record of kids getting into Ivy league schools or other prestigious schools. People say that has a lot to do with it checking a couple boxes for those schools, namely rural and Maine.
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