That's called CORRECT saddle height. Period.

Sorry for the brief hijack, but isn't that the new Felt DA he's riding? Looks eerily similar.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Doesn't look low to me. Note that his heel is up a bit...

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**************
Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

Not low at all. That height is perfect for ITT's, TTT's, sprints, Olypmics, HIM's and IM's.... I don't know what kind of crazy ass saddle height you had before...but I suggest you keep on copying Vino's "low saddle height"..:-)

The rear brake on the new Felt DA is down near the bottom bracket, this bike has the standard placement.

Yup... his seat isn't low. It looks darn near textbook.

Although that is one seriously BFH.

Yes. Exactly. Ankle flexion is NOT what determines proper seat height. So the fact that his heel is up a bit as he is starting the back half of his pedal stroke means nothing. That is pretty much a textbook perfect position.

That is the new BH time trial bike. It's quite similar to the previous model, which has been around for a lot longer than the new Felt.

PS: I LOVE your posts almost as much as some people love 'otel room...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

I would wager to bet that if you stuck with one seat height you would be better off. Why would anyone ride a different seat height for a different event?

"That's called CORRECT saddle height. Period."

Amen!

As usual people seem to want to over-analyse this.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Dev:

This guy has to work on his aero position. He is pushing way too much air. Loose the spacers and get invisible to the wind.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

I think I read that Tom Boonan rides a little lower than normal as his seatpost was set low or sliped once and he liked the position as it felt powerfull so kept it - maybe it works better with the long cranks he uses?



Where Vino is sitting high/low or just right he looks very powerful!

I'm not changing my saddle height, nor do I change it for different events :-).

"He is pushing way too much air."

And you know this how?

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Jon Boy...he's kidding...inside joke...but if you saw Konaexpress' position, it does make Vino look like a sail.

Sorry but the Slowtwtich Wind Tunnel always gets me going.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

I know you guys are saying that this is textbook, but there are lots of guys riding much "higher" like Lance did, Basso, Kloden with more leg extension. Which textbook should we be looking at? Personally I like lower...it is also easier to control the bike on technical courses, and seems easier on the body on really bumpy courses (ex St. Croix...)

Dev

No, not really similar. The new DA is much much narrower The rear brake is hidden inside the seat tube, the cables are all internal and tucked behind the stem, the post is not integrated to facilitate a more travel friendly, test ride friendly and non-UCI governed width and aspect ratio, the fork fits in front of the head tube, not within it, there is no downtube bottle mount, and there is no seat stay yoke, the stays run contiuously from teh dropout into the seat tube w/o a bridge or interuption.

The BH is pretty however as is the DA, so in that way they are the same.





-SD

"I know you guys are saying that this is textbook, but there are lots of guys riding much "higher" like Lance did, Basso, Kloden with more leg extension."



No Dev, not really.

The new Felt DA would be a totally cool bike if they made a proper looking post for it. The the un-used slot on it looks stupid. Why not make it reversable, or it it directional make 2 posts available? That should be do-able since there are multiple stems available.

Man, he looks fast. I think black is the only color of shorts that should ever be worn. Those yellow shorts are just not right.

Jon Boy...he's kidding...inside joke...but if you saw Konaexpress' position, it does make Vino look like a sail.


Konaexpress even in his smaller then ever tri size is much biger then Vino.
His arms are biger then Vino's legs
he got more to sail with

dirt/thom

I helped him set that position up. He liked my position that I posted lately that he called me up and asked for help. He wanted to be set up just like me, but I had to make modifcations since he is as low as his bike allows with out the use of a hacksaw. ;-)

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...earch_string;#960441

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

He could probably raise it a bit

Do you mean "not really" that many guys, or "not really" that much extension, "or not really" Lance, Basso, Kloden?

I'm gonna agree with Paulo on this. (And not just because I LOVE his posts...) I think you are way overanalyzing Vino's position. I also think your assessment of the general trend of positions among the peloton is way off. I don't see many riders at all riding like Lance anymore. Even the Disco boys are all on steep Equinox TTX bikes. I'm sorry to say this Dev, but I just think you are wrong with the points you're trying to make here. But I do mean that in the nicest possible way, since I LOVE your posts too...

EDIT: I would definitely NOT put Lance's position anywhere near "textbook." Because of his back issues (fused vertebrae), he had positioning requirements that were very different than most other riders.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Rappstar, maybe you misinterpreted, the intent of this post. I think Vino's position is great, which is why I posted it. The "seat too low" as we know is an ST inside joke.... Most triathletes I see are way higher. You can also see many pro cyclists that are seated higher and I was wondering if these guys had different riding styles/bone geometry that favoured that :-). I remember reading Greg Lemond's book around 15 years ago, and he said that the first thing that Renault-Gitane did for him when he went over to Europe was slam his seat back and down from what he was used to.

Speaking of triathletes with "seat too high" check out the Cervelo ad with Lisa Bentley at the top of this page. Whenever she hits a headwind or hill, she is rocking all over that saddle :-(

Dev... NO!

Exactly what was your point? Trying to retread now in the face of being "outed" as not being quite the expert you think you are, is well quite pathetic.

You are fast and often contribute in a positive manner. However, you seem to over step your knowledge as well as your place when you post innane posts as above and expecting your word to be taken as the official Slowtwitch Gospel.

Paulo, you really like to argue for no reason don't you?

Here are some others who are seated higher than Vino, with the best pics I could pull up:

Basso



Kloden



Julich



Pantani



Zabriskie



Indurain

Dev,

Please stop, it's getting ridiculous. I am out.

Thanks, Paulo, please leave. I am thankful. Maybe some smarter and more courteous gentlemen can provide some valuable insight :-)

Dev, seriously, I don't think you can make objective judgements about their saddle heights from those pictures. Beyond that, I'm not even sure what such any judgement would yield in terms of useful info. There is a range of saddle heights (as determined by knee angle) for riders. Not every rider in the world rides at 145*, nor should they. I don't see anything in any of those pictures that shows a marked difference from Vino. Certainly if you posted all those pics and Vino's, I think any perceived difference in saddle height would be LAST on the list of differences that people spotted. A couple degrees of difference in knee angle is hardly significant or noteworthy.

I'm sorry, Dev, but I think your trying to make something out of nothing here, and I don't see how anyone is supposed to benefit from what you are claiming to observe.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

DoubleTrouble...no need to be rude :-)...the "seat's too low" was a joke. I think it is great. Just noticed some other riders who prefer a higher position. I am not proclaiming to be an expert. But others clearly are :-)

None of them look conclusively higher. For pictures to be conclusive, they've got to be a lot more consistent than these (focal length, angle, depth of field, etc.)

Interesting observation Dev. This year I tempted fate with the "seat to high" method. After being fitted on my new Soloist Carbon, I marked the seat, and rode a lot a little higher just to test it as my professioanl fitting seat height felt too low. I initially felt faster as I felt lower in front and was "forced" to ankle/recruit more of my gastroc. But, I ended up with a pretty nasty soleus strain right up and through LP (took me a while to figure this out). Once I moved the seat back down to my fitters (he is excellent) measurements - everthing was fine (imagine that) :). I also noticed feeling like I was using my glutes/quads more as well. I didn't feel any faster, but was no slower either (and more importantly, not injured). I tried to figure out if I ran any better or worse from the two methods, but I really couldn't tell any difference.

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

If it were reversible the shape of the post would have to be symmetric, not aerodynamically ideal. There are two posts available, dual position, and single. What other suggestions do you have?



Thanks,



SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

I was surprised to see the reversible approach employed by a notable other maker... I doubt it would ever be published, but I'd be intrigued to see what, if anything, came out of the windtunnel when making that decision.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

19.3 mm frontal area beat 25.0 mm round post in the tunnel at 0 deg through about 15 deg yaw @ 30 mph.

The only advantage to round is the opportunity for ready made posts with offset. If you make such posts, a fast option is availalble.

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

I'm astounded that Dev's getting hammered on this one. He talks to the working elite triathlete like nobody else. Thanks Dev.

He's obviously not part of the portugese/jackass clique, but trying hard to be.

edit: sorry portugese/smartass clique, must've been a phloydian slip.

But a round post isn't the only symmetrical option. You could still have an teardropped front (and back), which is not aerodynamically ideal, but which would still seem to be better than a round post...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Forget all the knee angle stuff, lets all just adopt this position and call it a day:

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"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06

Obree was a total stud. What an innovator too. Nice aero helmet too. I take it that this thing is just a fairing and not a real helment. Compared to Vino's helmet above, this is sleek and narrow.

It is amazing that Obree could generate that much power out of such a closed hip angle. Shows you want your body can adapt too if trained to it. Too bad pro cycling is stuck in its ways. If the concept does not come out of the traditional cycling nations, it has to be killed. It is a testament to Obree that when Francesco Moser came out of retirement to try and break his 51.151 kph "personal best world hour record" he emulated Obree. Moser himself was an outside the box type thinker despite coming from the steep tradition bound box of Italian cycling.

Let's see:

1. Disk Wheels: US Olympic Team 1984
2. Aerobars: Scott USA, 1986
3. Steep Seat Tube Bike: QR Superform (1988?)
4. Deep Rim Wheels: Zipp 440, 1991
5. "Tuck Position": Graham Obree 1993
6. Superman Position: Graham Obree, Great Britain 1995

I might have some of the facts wrong, but none of the aero innovations came out of traditional cycling nations that I am aware of. Pretty amazing.

Do you have a picture of the single position post?

Disk wheels were originally patented prior to 1900, with one of the claimed advantages being a reduction in aerodynamic drag.

Thanks Andrew...I also just noticed that the QR Superform was 1987.

Was a bicycle the intended application of the disc wheels? Just wondering if you know.

For some reason I thought that the deep dish front was a HED design. I thought my first CX was from the late 80's (650 front).

Geez, what a tough crowd!!! What started off as a joke has some people all riled up. Everyone take a breath. If you have a position that you like keep it. That can be sitting right up, or completely flat on the bars. You are the one that has to ride the bike, so do what you want. Above all.... just be friggen happy!!!!!

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

Ah, it may seem to, yes, but the round shape is actually very tough to improve upon in low speed applications.



-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

yes, I'll work on getting it on here.

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era