I suspect more of that crash has to do with pushing 470 watts at threshold, being F'd, by being tight on line by the barriers and maybe the position.

The biggest failure was somehow allowing him to continue riding and completely missing anything from the concussion protocols.

I hope you take on riding Merckx TTs and have some real fun going forward instead of trolling on here about nothing! ;)

What they mean by head down position is that the rider is looking straight down rather than even peaking a couple feet in front of them. A lot time trial specialist tilt their helmet up around 2 inches and look straight down, most of the time directly at the top of their front wheel or wherever they placed their bike computer.
He would have done the same if it was a road bike TT so the argument that TT bikes need to go is invalid. Most of the time it is because the team car behind the rider would tell them when a hazard or turn is coming up on the course so all they need to do is ride straight unless told what is coming up.

User error. Would happen on any bike. The bike isn't responsible for the poor decision-making of the rider.


A good TT position doesn't mean bad vision.....

---

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

Why?

A guy crashed because he wasn't looking where he was going, and misjudged. Seems like a calculated risk, and the calculation didn't pan out. I don't see a need to legislate out reasonable risk.

This.

It looked like he still had some vision as he was following the road markings, it’s just the course didn’t follow them.

---

My Strava | My Instagram | Summerville, SC | 35-39 AG | 4:41 (70.3), 10:05 (140.6) | 3x70.3, 1x140.6 | Cat 2 Cyclist

Yes, there is no need for drastic action here as the risk of the position is self regulating. Aerodynamically you should look straight down the whole time. But the contest isn't 'who is the most aero', it's 'who completes the course fastest'.

There is a debate to be had about the safety of that specific barrier placement.

Banning TT bikes won't help, in fact we need more of them. Everyone should ride a TT bike. We need more good guys on TT bikes to stop the bad guys on TT bikes.

---

What's your CdA?

I only saw the clip, and it didn't look bad from that. But, I suppose that would depend on the course leading up to it. If it were a blind approach, without a sightline to the barrier on entry...maybe there's an argument, particularly if they weren't allowed to scout ahead of time.

Were they allowed to scout the course beforehand, or was it "blind"? Either way it still seems:

1. They scouted the course and should have known, or...
2. It was a blind course, and they should have been paying more attention.

Barring something egregious, I'm probably still on the side of "hey, watch where you are going."

A lot of races I've done will go around with spray paint and mark any egregious road hazards (potholes and such). Wonder if they could do the same in situations like these to warn the rider that the barriers are going to deviate from the road markings.

A friend sent me this and I thought of you

You say that like people wouldn't put their heads down on road bikes. You'll see hoods turned in, long stems, and heads down.

More interesting is the proposal made after bernal's crash regarding allowing more tilt, which may allow riders to have the same kinds of benefits and keeping their head down, but being able to keep their heads up.

After watching that clip several more times, there's just nothing to mark. The course literally goes straight, as the road markings are making a gentle bend. He literally road straight at the barrier for 5 full seconds before he crashed into it. A glance up the road at any time within the first 4 seconds should have been enough to slightly alter course and avoid a collision. The sight line is completely clear, there's nothing to prevent anyone from seeing anything and there's nothing sudden about the change in course direction, or the change in road direction. He literally just needed to keep going straight.

I probably come down on the 'watch where you're going' side of this one, just not sure what was the point of barricading off half the road. As far as I could tell it's straight road leading in, then a barrier gradually cuts off the left half over the span of 20m or so. Can't really see what it's blocking off though.

Let me follow the logic here: someone else assumes a known risky position on a bike, crashes, so you naturally got rid of a bike you own? I know you troll this board with Luddite opinions. Out of curiosity, when was the Golden Age? When was the sweet spot where there weren’t carbon shoes, or TT bikes, but we weren’t wearing outfits from Chariots of Fire? Or would it in fact be preferable to compete like the ancient Greeks, au naturel?

Looks to me like the course goes across the entrance/exit(not sure where this was...RH or LH drive?) ramp/or Fork-in-the-road and follows the right hand path. Sure the barriers could have been straighter....but, literally a single glance up the road at any point in the 10s leading into the section was enough to see what's coming, and basically not do anything.

Let's ignore the problems with synthetic's argument...

We all spend too much money on bikes...

Too much time shoppings, trying to fix new tech.
Driving around trying to find people who can fix new tech for us.

We should be cycling.

Not fixing weird sh#t.
Not shopping for new sh#t.

The constant obsession with new stuff...

In the long run, is a massive negative for bike racing and triathlon.

I fully support any effort to bring this problem in check.

That said I don't see anything happening..

Triathlon and bike racing is mostly about selling bikes and bike stuff

Having fun outside. Fitness. Racing...

All considered "necessary evils" by the bike industry.

Yeah the more I look at it the less I think the barrier was unsafe. It seems to cut off the entry to the corner a bit but there may be road furniture obscured behind it. I can understand why he didn't see it during short glances up, but it's got to be 99% on him. Based on his far left road position maybe he thought the course continued down the road to the left? Idk

Came to post this photo (or similar), leaving satisfied.

^^^^^This.

Some folks will ride head down regardless of what kind of bike they are on (ex. Fignon below). The UCI is also pushing the rider position angle to deflect from the issue over concussion protocol.

---

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

yeah, watching the video you can see that although the slight kink outward in the barriers is what caught him, kung was veering towards them anyway - following the lines in the road that he could see looking down, rather than having any idea what was happening in front of him.

use of barriers with feet that stick out into the course is bad and having a kink in them is worse. they may also have closed off the entry to the upcoming corner more than necessary but none of these things would have been a problem if kung was looking ahead even a bit as might reasonably be expected. maybe barriers with advertising are good as they are more visible than thin metal.

as always head to escape collective where Ronan has a great article on this and why you can't make rules to mandate where a rider is looking

What a lovely hip angle this belgian has

What Belgian?

The ironic thing is that the UCI will likely use this crash to come up with even dumber TT bike rules. GCN published a decent article discussing this:

https://www.globalcyclingnetwork.com/tech/news/head-down-tt-position-dangers-back-in-the-spotlight-despite-new-uci-rules


I do agree with Dowsett's comments. They should eliminate the aerobar rise rule as it could be argued that this makes the riders lower their head too much to close the gap, whereas if they could angle the aerobars way higher ( Richard Varga or Vincent Luis) then they could close the gap and still be able to see the road.

ahh you are right, that a roadie TT which I have done, likely you will put the head down still. But at least you have hands closer to brakes for quicker reaction with a wider arm carriage for stability to turn / take a pothole






I have been hit by cars on a bike before. It really hurts, and thank god nothing worse than a broken bone or two. Unless you are training daily on some dreamland closed course, most of us have to train in areas with cars present. In this world, the amatures want what the top guys have...

this issue also happens in triathlon, a collegue of mine was hitten by another triathlete "worried more for watts than for riding" during past IM Italy.

In my opinion a rider, specially a cyclist (which TT are much more shorter than a IM 70.3 or full IM) which mantain a position where they can not mantain the view of the road are fool, and should be banned (in the case of the triathlete who impact with may friend: how can my friend get paid for the cost of the repair, and the lost of their expectations in the race, due a silly person?)

But, said that, I would like to think, that in this is not the case, that the cyclist was just in that moment thinking in other histories, or whatever...

I'm all in favour of banning TT bikes - especially for amateur triathletes - but I don't see how this crash supports anything. It just looks like a cooked professional cyclist doing something very silly.

You're gonna have to live life in a plastic bubble.
Kids now days are so risk averse. ;)
Dude wasn't looking where he was going. Dumbass move on his part and no call to ban TT bikes..............

Every time this discussion comes up I get infuriated. It's ASSININE. We will and should get as aero as we can possibly get. With ONE caveat, WATCH WHERE THE F YOU'RE GOING. Good lord. Is that hard? Don't go 60kph in areas where cars and busses may stop in your path. Or the road takes a hard turn. Or how bout keep an eye on the barriers your hugging for no reason? And I absolutely love Stefan Kung but I guarantee he's not blaming anyone or TT bikes. He's embarrassed at that error. The audience on this site is largely pro TT bikes. They're sexy, fun and fast. I LOVE them. Take personal responsibility. Watch where you're going. Everyone, no matter what bike, skateboard, car, boat or plane you're piloting, be aware. Be safe.

---

cock-up before conspiracy

lol.

Tell us how you really feel?

for the record, I agree.

I agree with you regarding him being allowed to still race.

However, I think the biggest reason is the barriers cut in on the road and changes direction in an area that isn't expected. He was following the layout of the road and was good to go on his perspective (looking down and not on the white line). However, he had no idea the road cut in. Something that he should have known from preriding the course and something his team car should have relayed to him in his ear as he was approaching.

come to think of it, the barrier color does blend a bit with color of the road. seeing that white paint to the right he could have thought it was a raised curb. all these split second decsions, was a course preview done? why even use those barriers where the legs stick out, I see many people crash off them in crit races too

My understanding is that the barricades were not in place during course previews, and their placement came as a surprise to more than one rider. Watching the coverage, it sure seemed like some of the earlier riders weren't quite ready for the race day line on some of the roundabouts.

At this level the DS is typically warning the rider about upcoming trouble spots based on feedback from earlier team riders, but I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't much info forthcoming from Bissegger's camp given they were both in the running for a podium position.

---

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

It is interesting seeing the head down photos of riders without helmets.

I wonder if, without a helmet, Kung would have been dead? Or if he would have ridden a hair more cautiously (knowing he had no helmet) and either avoided the crash or had a less severe crash?

In the pre-aerobars/no helmet era there would be a couple of cases a year of pros riding head down and running into a car parked on the course. Several career ending injuries.

---

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

At the first tri I did, back in the pre-aerobar days, the first guy that passed me right at the start of the bike leg rode right into the back of a parked bus...

---

"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

This from a road race (LBL) of Davis Phinney riding into the back of a team car that had stopped to assist another rider. The team was sponsored by a safety glass maker (IsoGlass), but that glass was only used on the front windshield.

---

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)