Eu is just so much stronger. And both Lucy and Jan are even out with injuries!
I wonder if in the future they should do Team EU vs Rest of world as i feel like eu is just too strong to make it interesting, ofcourse that could change over the years

Don't know about you, but despite being a European I can't bring myself to root for Europe, it's just so ridiculously strong. I prefer an underdog. My heart was with the U.S. last year, this year maybe I'll support the Internationals.

As for an alternative team structure, the European Union versus North America versus Rest of World might work. That way the British, the Swiss and the Norwegians (Skipper, Brownlee, Matthews, Lee, Ryf, Blu, Iden) join the Australians at Rest of World, and the Canadians (Sanders, Laundry, Beals, Findley, Jewett) join the Americans. Both the U.S. and the Internationals will gain and Europe will be significantly weakened (while still retaining top talent like Frodeno, Lange, Baekkegard, Chevrot, Laidlow, Angert, Ditlev, Haug, Philipp, Norden, Perez Sala and maybe the French short course contingent).

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

How about this?

1. Europe
2. The Commonwealth (UK, AUS, NZ, etc.—Canada excluded)
3. The Americas (US, Canada, Latin America, etc.)

Don’t ask what happens when another part of the World has an elite athlete

I've been banging the drum for a Commonwealth team since this thing was announced.

I agree. The way it is set up now, Europe could put in a 1A and a 1B team and still go 1-2.
So deep in men's and women's field.

Canada has to be part of a Commonwealth team.

Ahhh the Commonwealth...the UK's attempt to continue to stay disproportionately globally relevant.

Nope. “America’s Hat” has to roll with the USA. We’ll take Bermuda too while Flora is around.

I'd love to get a poll over this, athletes count as 100 votes, I reckon the majority of Comm athletes would vote to race in a Comms team.

Away from the politics side of the argument it would make the teams a lot more balanced (unless you're racing or watching outside Europe/US/Comm then maybe they could fit into another team at team captain discretion.

This "solution" of removing International for the Commonwealth excludes so many countries that I don't even know where to begin.

The "issues", though I see none since there has only been one Collins Cup, are that Europe is too strong and the US too weak. Removing the UK athletes to a Commonwealth, you will still have an incredibly strong European team and a weaker US team.

I honestly think those are really strong teams across the board. I might agree they would be lopsided if this was an Ironman distance, but it's not. I think all three teams have a strong shot, especially depending on how the matchups go. Looking forward to watching the race!

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My Strava | My Instagram | Summerville, SC | 35-39 AG | 4:41 (70.3), 10:05 (140.6) | 3x70.3, 1x140.6 | Cat 2 Cyclist

Yes, remember that with the 10% bonus for best full distance the rankings are skewed favouring those who've raced well already this year full distance (mainly WC at St George and Roth). Over 70.3 and it's more balanced and over 100km, even more so.
How are Gentle and Findlay going to fare against Ryf and Matthews over 100km? Will Knibb be fit enough to accept her slot? Will Duffy accept a 'Captain's Pick' or will her priority be to find a 70.3 she can get her bike to. Last year the USA women were really strong (helped in part by epic fails from Ryf and Haug who both then won a week later, btw (IM Swi and Roth)). Haven't got the Zaferes wildcard this time. But the USA men were the weak link in that team.

I would make one addition:

1. Scandinavia (put Bækkegård in the lineup for Europe and you're already there on the mens side).
2. Europe sans Scandinavia
3. The Commonwealth (UK, AUS, NZ, etc.—Canada excluded)
4. The Americas (US, Canada, Latin America, etc.)

a commonwealth team might be slightly more meaningful than rest of the world but i don't think enough so to make up for the complications of excluding the rest of the rest of the world.

what they absolutely have to do though is to come up with a kit that doesn't look like an australian team, otherwise the kiwi athletes might refuse to race, i'm sure they're still feeling itchy after wearing those colours last year!

That was indeed a terrible kit! Especially since the European one looked so clean!

My first thought was “why make the teams so contrived and artificial”, but then I recalled Super League and their Sharks, Grizzly Bears and what not and your idea already looks better.

Not as good as North America, European Union, Rest of World, of course.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

I might like this one even more than the Commonwealth idea

Might work, but think suddenly RoW are dominant (NB with non-EU GBR, NOR and SUI)
EU women very weak indeed. NA men weak, even with Sanders to bolster the very weak USA men.
More interested in dark horse possible wildcards for 2022, to be frank. Will be announced next week, apparently.

Or we could just get wild and creative and let the 3 Team Managers select one "Captain" ranked 1-10, each team Captain then has to select one person from 11-20, 21-30, 31-40, 41-50.

Beauty of this would be some lower ranked up and comers get a chance at exposure (or we get to see nepotism at play LOL)

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David T-D
http://www.tilburydavis.com

PTO (31 Jul, edited for punctuation):
"The Collins Cup Captains' Picks will be announced shortly.
"The Captains: Dave Scott, Julie Moss, Normann Stadler, Natascha Badmann, Craig Alexander and Erin Baker, are all legends in our sport. They have been working together with the goal of picking athletes who they feel will strengthen their teams. This is a tough job, with so many amazing athletes to consider."
Levison offers his picks: https://www.tri247.com/...ildcards-predictions
For mine (last week) see the OP.

Something I haven't liked about the shtick of calling these people captains. They're effectively fantasy sports general managers. So call them Coach or Manager. A captain is a leader on the field/course as an athlete.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

„Captain” is from tennis terminology (the Davis Cup). Maybe golf, too?

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

It is now in the Ryder Cup, but that was not always the way. Playing Captain's were a thing until 1963. Palmer being the last captain to play.

It just doesn't do it for me. Would love for Jan to be named captain and have to pick guys. I'm kinda over the people they are using, it's like our entire viewing demographic matches baseball and its aging. We're selling to one group rather than the group we're trying to target.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I've not even given a thought to who the captains even are. I've kinda recognized that almost all the athletes that we want / deserve to be there, are there. I guess someone "deserving" is going to be left out every year, but I don't even give the leaders of the team a thought- I just focus on the races / athletes.

Maybe they'll come into play more if CC picks up more. But I couldn't even tell you who led any of the teams last year but I can tell you 90% of the athletes.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Before we get caught up in semantics….



I like his picks, except for Lopes and Spirig. Lopes was the worst drafting offender of the Lopes-Spirig-Salthouse trio in Edmonton. Her countrywoman Batista seems more likely to land a spot.

Spirig was the second worst drafter but her CV might salvage her as a pick if it wasn’t for the impressive progress made by Sara Perez Sala, winner of this year’s Challenge the Championship in, yes, Šamorín - where the Collins Cup takes place.

Levison is just a little too focused on Edmonton. Yes, Perez Sala was 26th. That doesn’t mean she’s not on form. The Collins Cup also has a relatively long - and often difficult - swim in the choppy waters of the Danube, where she’ll excel.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

For the avoidance of doubt over who is ultimately responsible for selecting the "Captains' Picks":
Collins Cup Qualification Protocol for 2022
2. Team Members:
Four members of each team (two men and two women) will be Captains’ picks (a “Captains' Pick”) and two members of each team will be alternates (“Alternates”).
Alternates will race in the event a team member is unable to do so. All Alternates and Captains' Picks will be selected by the non-Athlete Members of the PTO Board, after consultation with the Team Captains.
I'm sure I heard somewhere that the selections would be shared early/mid next week.

Oh that is interesting. Did they change the rules or is this just a formality, like the Queen of a England (Athlete Board in this case) “picking” the prime minister?

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

correct me but alternates are the reserve athletes not the captain picks

Yes - four Captain's Picks and two 'alternates' aka reserves. You'll recall last year both INT and USA needed to call up replacements and it was all a bit rushed / ad hoc. Think this is an effort to make this process better and more transparent. Clearly any alternate not pulled into the team can race the ITU "Long" at Samorin the following day, and probably win!
The lowest ranked athlete racing the Collins Cup gets $20,000.
Captains’ Picks: The Captains Picks will be ". . . announced no later than 27th July. In determining the Captains Picks . . . the non-Athlete PTO Board, in consultation with the Team Captains, will seek to identify those athletes who, in their opinion, would best serve their respective Teams and enhance the Team’s performance at the Collins Cup. The
factors that would be considered include, but are not limited to, current and historical rankings, recent performances, possible matchups with other Teams and fitness levels."

2 August, 2022
London: Following the announcement last week of the athletes automatically qualified to represent Teams US, Europe and International at the PTO’s flagship event The Collins Cup later this month on 20th August, Team US Captains Julie Moss and Dave Scott are the first to break cover and reveal the athletes they have chosen as their Captains’ Picks.
Those athletes are:
Sophie Watts
Sarah True
Jason West
Ben Kanute
Commenting on the selections, Team Co-Captain Dave Scott said, “In selecting Watts, True West and Kanute, we have added additional firepower to Team US. In Jason West we have an athlete who has broken out this year and begun to show his potential with a great performance in Chattanooga, where he scored 98 PTO World Ranking points. Ben Kanute is a Collins Cup veteran, having the fourth fastest time at last year’s event. He understands the pressure that occurs once you don the stars and stripes, and we know he is a man prepared for the battle.”
Julie Moss, Scott’s Co-Captain, added, ‘It was a difficult decision selecting our Captains’ Picks as there were many deserving athletes. With Sophie Watts’ 2022 performances after an injury in 2021 all being the mid to high 80s, she has demonstrated not only consistency, but a fierce determination well suited for being a part of Team US. Her strength on the run will make her a feared opponent at Šamorín. What can I say about Sarah True? Coming back from maternity leave and injury, she has had two races this year, and averaged 103 points. As a former Olympian, she has the speed, strength, and guts to challenge any athlete at The Collins Cup.
Rounding out their comments on their picks, Moss and Scott concluded, “It is an honour for us to lead these fine athletes. Team US may be the underdogs, but in last year’s matches we shocked people when Team US took an early lead. With the strength of the team this year our goal is to build on last year and carry it all the way through to lift the Collins Cup trophy. It is never a good idea to underestimate athletes who fly the red, white and blue.
More at: https://protriathletes.org/...m-us-captains-picks/

This was the same last year... it basically says that the "commercial side" of the PTO are making the selections... which effectively means that they're cherry-picking who will have the most appeal for television/broadcast ratings.

I suspect that one of their marketing tools is "X number of Olympians and Y number of Olympic Gold medals..." That's likely why you saw so many Olympians show up in Edmonton... though the on-course performances of people like Schoeman, Brownlee and McElroy weren't good enough to justify selection.

True was a great pick for the US... and I'm guessing they'll go with Spirig and Duffy for picks on the Europe/Internationals team

I reckon both those athletes are odds on for selection (EUR and INT). Duffy going up against Knibb, d'you think?
True beat Jackson (who is the #5 ranked American (US)) by 16 minutes at Lake Placid so that will have helped the rationale. A decent race at Samorin (it'll mean she then has 3 'scores') will see her in the PTO top 20 (roughly the same as Jackson). Watts a clear weak link in a competitive USA women's 6.
I assume that the European Captains' Picks will be revealed Wednesday and the Internationals on Thursday (all separated for media impact reasons).
Fear we will be deprived of a Salthouse v Lawrence bashathon/karma this time.
No, the selection protocols were shared in January and sfaik, them's the 'rules'.

Maybe let the UK have their own team then see how "globally relevant" they are then, in the world of triathlon at least. I'd wager they would run the rest of Europe close.

You'd lose your stake, big time. The UK men are too weak / continentals way too strong. Having both Brownlees finishing a 100km contest would make it closer.
Restrict it to the women (6 v 6) and it'd be close but I reckon Europe (as opposed to EU) would come out on top.

zzzzzzz

Wow incredible riposte…you’re too good for me.

Just bored by the chest thumping. Yes, the UK has good triathletes at the moment. AND they are also at a huge disadvantage to sustain that level of competitiveness over a period of time simply due to population size and investment vis-a-vis Europe as a whole. Constantly thinking you are better than other European countries has gotten you into this Brexit mess.

I suspect that one of their marketing tools is "X number of Olympians and Y number of Olympic Gold medals...//

You mean they have the gaul to pick the best athletes to compete? Of course it is more interesting to us if the best athletes show up and race head to head, and the rankings often lack that clarity on who is "actually" the best athletes. I mean is Jan even on the top 10 or 20 anymore? And many of those ITU athletes that make any race more exciting, are they on the list? Of course that rankles many that it is not cut and dry, using ranking places only. We are not quite that developed as a sport, so cannot do what golf or tennis does. But I think even those sports have "special" slots that go outside their rankings for certain events, so probably something that will always be in the gray area of selections.

Just so you know guys, the UK is not part of the Commonwealth Games.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

no, Monty, the whole point of brexit is that the Brits don't have the Gauls anymore.

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

What Brexit mess???

leaving aside the trainwreck for a moment:

i think the captain's picks on team USA look solid, particularly on the men's side. i'm less confident about the women's side.

kanute, if he can get healthy, is really solid over the 100k distance. he should be able to swim at the front and bike with most people. disappointing year for him, so i hope he can turn things around.

west was on a tear there for a while, running his way through a handful of fields, and i think the 100k distance will also suit him ok.

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

From the 'gram:
Team Europe’s Captains' Picks 🇪🇺

Confirmed for the 2022 @thecollinscuptri:

@nicolaspirigofficial ⭐️
@danielbaekkegard ⭐️⭐️
@hollylawrencetri ⭐️⭐️
@samlaidlow ⭐️

⭐️ = CC appearances

[Edited} I had initially assumed Pallant had said 'no thanks': that was the only reason I could think of for not having her in the team. But from other comments it looks as if Lawrence has been preferred (and I fail to find any rationale for that). Spirig selection is a 'hall of fame' and Olympic Champion rationale which is understandable.
Charles commented: "For clarity; I threw my hat in the ring as a wild card selection, I fully understand the reasons for not picking me, given that I am yet to race and demonstrate I am at the required standard to compete . . ."
Great she was up for the fight, even though only back running a week: would've been worth the Collins Cup baseline $20,000 to just turn up and jog in. Sounds like Kona or St George or both, are on the cards.

Do you really think Pallant said "no thanks" to a $35k pay check/appearance fee?

Unfortunately, the commercial team picked Spirig over Pallant Browne...

Based on her husbands comments on Instagram, EPB did not say 'no thanks'

Really disappointing decision especially after the blatant cheating from Spirig last week

I could think of no other explanation for her non-selection (and had not read down the post's long comments set).
They have chosen Lawrence over Pallant (Spirig selection is a legacy issue - will be her last season). Matching Lawrence with Pallant I cannot see any rationale for choosing the former. Hopefully someone can articulate some possible reasons.

I would've picked Sara Perez Sala, and I'm not saying I necessarily agree with picking Lawrence over Pallant, but if I were the devil's advocate, I'd say the Collins Cup has a relatively long swim (5% longer than a 70.3 swim) and a short run (15% shorter). One of the reasons they picked Kanute for the U.S. team IMO.

The two are evenly matched on the bike. Lawrence wins on the swim every time, often by as much as 2 minutes in middle distance racing, although she does get beaten on the run.

https://stats.protriathletes.org/...awrence/emma-pallant

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

EPB would almost certainly be faster than either Spirig or Lawrence. Team Europe can make these choices and still be a shoe-in for overall win.

Instagram is blowing up from EPB not getting picked. I'm really disappointed with PTO. Whoever made that decision should step down. It's not fair and not right. What idiots!!!

EPB must be devastated. She has won nearly every race she has entered this season. Lawrence has done nothing all season.

This is the sort of BS you expect from governing bodies, the PTO is supposed to be a fresh start.

Spirig isn’t better than EPB but I can understand why she has been picked. Former champion last race of her career etc.

Can someone explain David McNamee’s comment about choosing someone who cheated by drafting? Is he referring to Spirig? If so, didn’t she ride with Gentile so wouldn’t that infer they were all cheating?

Yes, although based on the coverage Gentle was definitely the least at fault of the four riding together - she seemed to be on the front the most, and was the only one I was actually making an attempt to drop back when she was passed.

I think it's a little unfair that Nicola is being hauled over the coals on instagram for one race, just because it's still fresh in everyone's mind. She's had an amazing career and I kind of get them going for a legacy pick.

I agree about the Edmonton drafting challenges: Lopes was the worst imo, but as a draft-legal WTCS athlete she has no experience of maintaining 12m let alone 20, and her instinct is to maximise the draft advantage, if lack of refereeing allows it.
Think Spirig should have tried harder (she is sufficiently experienced in middle distance even just this year) but zeroing in on that and castigating is, as you say, unfair. Her selection was entirely predictable (see my OP) for Olympic Champion / legacy / end of career reasons.
I can't see why Lawrence might be a better pick than Pallant: well the only reason I can think of is that they want to match her up against Salthouse again.
https://www.tri247.com/...-cup-wildcard-debate

Replying to last.

Crazy selection with no EPB.

Surely the only possible reason to pick Holly is to have a Holly vs Ellie Salthouse 'Karma' re-match as that was one of the most talked about last year.

Don’t let facts get in the way of mkq having an anti British rant, whoever they are they’re frothing here.

Seems like those calling Spirig were right, probably for the reasons most claimed. If you use the “marketing rationale” I’m guessing they picked Holly over Emma because of her rivalry with Ellie last year.

If the PTO “championships” are going to be based on marketing and/or sentimental appeal then it does raise the question as to whether these races are actually a championship, or if they are an exhibition. Seems a bit off asking people to race and qualify and trumpeting that you will have the best athletes compete against each other, remunerating them appropriately, only to have some of the best athletes miss out because you want to sell the spectacle. Hard to be critical of hr PTO, but this is not what I imagined from them.

Well, I've said it about 100x. Nothing about the PTO is about the Athletes. They push that verbiage out there, but the actions don't really grow the sport in a professional capacity. The bonus system only pays to top athletes, not developmental pros. Can't get into a PTO race if you aren't a proven winner. They're hoping to create a broadcast product...which they are doing poorly at.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I think at this point it's a catch 22 scenario. Being as young as it is still, they likely are still in the phase where they have to showcase that this is actually sustainable and/or more importantly marketable...IE- how to bring in money.

So I think the initial crop of athletes who are laying the foundation may miss out on things, at their expense but the overall good may be that it becomes a markable product and then suddenly it can sorta go back to being a fair competition.

So I think it's yes it's sorta still an "exhibition" of can this theory even work still, so they are having to make some "questionable" decisions still, that may not be the fairest from a "fair play" standpoint...But that may allow the sport to capitalize in the future.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Clearly you haven't seen what Lawrence looks like when she races :)

I honestly think this might be the reason. Holly has twice the followers on FB and this plays into it.

Is PTO perfect? No. But it does provide them a lot of additional opportunities.

It pays well for the top athletes. And it pays really well for the MOP/BOP pros in non-Collins races.

In Collins Cup, the top 4 athletes for each country do need to qualify so we can rightfully call it a championship. Wildcards and special invitations are for marketing purposes, but that also isn't a bad thing for athletes.

These big price purses bring more eyeballs and anything that gets the athletes more eyeballs will also help them get more sponsors/followers.

Are you guys talking about her race suit?

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

Sadly my mind was thinking in that direction too. But Emma is actually quite charismatic, and also races in a nice suit.
So yeah I'm still at loss as to why that pick was done.
Is she at least standin and getting a bit of the split, or who is EU standin?

https://protriathletes.org/media-releases/collins-cup-2022-team-europe-captains-picks/


their reasoning for beekegard should have been the same for females , ie 3rd fastest time last year and next highest ranked atheltes outside the 4 fixed slots... simple emma pallant on top of that with pretty good 70,3 races this year.
the next place than they can think if they wnat to give a legacy sport or grittiest athlete spot . but not having emma is a bit bs. especially if you see the correct beekegard justification for his pick it makes it even clearer pallant should be in. but honestly there is no rational justification to pick spiirg and lawrance over pallant

There is no such thing as "correct justification." These are subjective picks.

Spirig is a legend retiring this year
Lawrence brings greater fanfare

Both of these are "rational" justifications. Performance isn't the only factor, otherwise they would just take the top 6 ranked athletes instead of having captains picks.

Captains picks are in case someone has an off race or can’t get a visa to race and qualify. Someone like Lucy who had an injury but could have been fit in slightly different circumstances.

Captains picks are to ensure you have the best racers on the day. Isn’t that why they have called it a Championship. Maybe it needs to be changed to pageant so they can justify picking someone like Holly. A couple of years ago she was a brilliant athlete but not recently.

This is 2020 FFS, we should not be picking athletes on how hot they look in a bathing suit. Do men get picked on the size of trunk packed into the shorts. NO!!!!!!!!!!!

Where/when did the PTO say this?

Does Captains pick in the Ryder Cup pick someone who can help the team win or help the team look good?

EPB is now on the start list for the LC World Champs the day before for GBR. Interestingly so is LCB.

What does Ryder Cup have to do with PTO?

I take that to mean PTO didn't say it's "in case someone has an off race or can’t get a visa to race and qualify"

you can repeat your purposefully biased opnion 100 x but just check the reality ,
you can enter many smaller pto races but the main pto races are like the world series you need to have a good ranking which is fair .

they have maternity leave,

iam not saying what they do is good as i would like to see more money for developmental pros as well but just dont lie all the time. make useful points ,

I think the pto is far more for the athletes then not. I think some aren’t seeing that by focusing on every single decision they make and deciding is that fair or not.

Again this is all still an evolving organization. I think this is far better fair for the athlete than an event like Island House that truly was just an millionaire wanting to have 10 athletes all racing on his private island, etc.

I think this is all just part of the growing pains that you have to keep in check. There is still some give and take that the athletes are going to have to suffer and deal with. But I think it’s still in the direction of the greater overall good for the athlete. It’s just still in it’s infancy that there are still going to be major growing pains associated with it.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I think while we are more and more in a PC correct world, ultimately the pto is at the point where they have to make decisions that make this marketable still. Could that be from “racing only” matchups? Or could it be from an combination of the best athletes + best “stories” that ultimately drive people to making this work from an investment opportunity.

I think they are still at a point where they have to manufacture some hot takes into this and it not just be the “best of the best” racing only. That’s what this decision tells me.

So as I said I think this hurts the current crop of athlete who are trying to lay the foundation but if it sticks and wealth suddenly comes into the sport, this will have been only a speed bump and the next generation will benefit off the backs of those who “sacrificed” for the greater good.

40 years ago NBA was on tape delay tv broadcasts of their final championship round, and you had top 10 all time athletes routinely making the nba finals. Suddenly the next crop of athletes who have some swagger and appeal (along with superstar talent) get the sport major tv product and the rest is history where “average” players suddenly in 1 4 year window make more money than those superstars who were the trailblazers made in an whole career.

Tiger Woods made a boring ole “white male” sport so popular and profitable that tour members today make more in a handful of years than those same pro caliber athletes just 25 years ago. All because of marketability and investment into the sport.

So there’s all kinds of angles you likely have to factor in when your trying to grow something.


8 years ago when ncaa triathlon became a sport, one of the coaches wanted a rule that recruits could race and count for the school in the initial ncaa tri champs. I laughed and said this was a “college race” meaning current college athletes should be the athletes that count. Now I know why the coach suggested it (it helped him win) but it was also reasoned that it’ll help showcase the race. The coaches association agreed and suddenly current college athletes + committed recruits scored for your uni. That was a “unfair” setup that hurt some teams at the time, but the greater good was it was all part of the ups and downs to move ncaa tri forward.

Sometimes there truly is an 2 steps forward. 1 step back that has to take place in order for the overall greater good to win in the end. This story still hasn’t been finished so we’ll see what these types of sacrifices does for the pro sport side of triathlon.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

If there is no one at the bus stop the bus drives right on past. It doesn’t actually say it at the bus stop but common sense says that the bus doesn’t have to stop!!!!!

The same that common sense says if you are advertising a championship and selling the event as bringing the best athletes together to race one another you would expect the best athletes to be on the start line. No BS, no marketing, no politics and certainly not picking someone because they are “hot”.

The Ryder Cup example was a legitimate comparison. If you need that explaining just google the Captains picks for all the events and see how influential they are. I really don’t recall anyone being picked for anything but ability to win.

Let’s start calling it for what it is, an exhibition or a pageant when your looks appear to be more influential than your results.

Totally agree with the majority of what you are saying. For Island House there was an expectation that it was by invitation and that rankings might not lead to an invitation.

With the pro org they have always marketed this about bringing the best in the world together for a Herculean type gladiatorial battle. They continually update their rankings and continually follow that up by saying who is going to be on the start line. There was an expectation amongst the pros that if you had a high enough ranking and a good enough performance you would be picked.

It isn’t about certain athletes were picked and certain athletes weren’t. It is the bad management of expectations.

You are correct in that Ryder Cup captains’ picks are typically the people the captains think are most likely to help them win, but the picks are not necessarily the highest ranked players that failed to qualify automatically. Experience, team chemistry, Ryder Cup history, and intangibles influence the choice. I don’t know if that is the case with the choice of HL and NS over EPB, but it is possible. I wouldn’t conclude that a single controversial captain’s pick means the event is a pageant rather than a genuine competition/ championship.

But I think an important point. This is still a “private organization” that is essentially making up the rules as it goes….FOR NOW. (With how they fill their races and how they allow for exemptions to make the races etc). Essentially they have gray area rules and not black/white rules.

But that imo they are doing this for the betterment of elite triathletes down the road. I don’t think this is just a cool kids club. I think they truly want the elite side of the sport to thrive. I just think they are having to make some sideway decisions in order to move it forward, again *for now*.

So I think it’s just growing pains. So yes they are still in the “showcase” phase of their marketability and not necessarily 100% “championship” level.

Of course they’ll publicly say this is a battle of the best and that’s just marketing 101 approach, they have to say that.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

For what it's worth and not wanting to derail the thread I think EPB looks as good as Lawrence racing!

The top 4 on each team qualified, so it's a championship.

Should we call Kona a pageant because of the non-qualifying slots?

That's right. You work your ass off to win and excel in several races but you don't get picked? This is about the principal and it can be discouraging for other athletes. They need solid/better system that most people can agree with. Out of 100 people, if 51 people agree, that's still fine. But in this case, I would say majority of people don't agree which is a pretty bad decision.

Which majority? PTO members or the ST hivemind?

If the athletes don't like this system, they will likely get it changed. But imo, the athletes pics system is fine. 4 of 6 athletes still qualify by ranking. The selection process makes things interesting (we wouldn't be talking about it if simply athletes #5 and #6 qualified). And it allows for fan favorites (e.g. Holly) to race, which increases viewership. PTO need eyeballs.

I get that I'm cynical and we have significantly different views on what the PTO is and who it represents. It spent the better part of what, 5 years just pestering Ironman on Social erstwhile the Athletes who it claimed to represent still willingly raced at Kona. What has facilitated them to do anything has been Moritz and his money. We'll see how long that lasts. It's also not really "maternity leave" either, it's more of a guaranteed stipend for mothers, which is great. (Leave is granted by an employer, PTO is now a race promoter, and all the athletes are on 1099s) But do we even know how you can apply for that? Does it apply to all members? Or is it only for those ranked somewhere? Remember, the athletes are not funding this organization.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Remember, the athletes are not funding this organization.

------

This is the biggest factor at the current time. The athletes need PTO to work much more than PTO "needs" the athletes. IE- if this doesn't work, PTO just folds, some millionaire will only have lost a few million, and he'll go to another sand box to play in. But if this doesn't work for the athletes, it's back to square one for the umpteenth time of thinking they'll be in the money only to lose it 3 years into the project.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

i would think we are actually not far off what we think about pto
the only difference is you see only see the bad and i also see grey areas and the good .

It's not really maternity leave. If you get pregnant and you're in the top 100 your ranking gets frozen so you still get the year end bonus you would have gotten. I forget how long the freeze is off the top of my head.

Edit: my memory was bad. See below post for correction.

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

"At the time of her pregnancy, the athlete’s PTO World Ranking will be fixed, and during her maternity leave she will be paid monthly payments based on 100% of the PTO Annual Bonus Plan in effect at the time."

It's for 15 months.

ST will argue anything on semantics. Call it maternity leave or call it something else. It's safe to assume the point of bringing it up wasn't to discuss what it's called, but that it's something the PTO does for the athletes. They pay you while you take time off to become a parent. If that isn't maternity leave, it's something analogous and benefits athletes.

Ah woops. Totally my bad. Misremembered how it worked. I thought it just locked them for their bonus, forgot about it essentially doubling the bonus plus some.

---

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

You started a thread on it. Lol

yes but if you are 51 to 100 in the world ranking , i think most people would agree 2.5 k or whatever it is is not going to do much and yet 2.5 k is better than than 0 and for 21 to 50 it works out 6.25 k i think .

If you are 51-100, the PTO parental support is probably more than you're making from Ironman-branded prize purses by continuing to race

2,5 k paternal support out of a yearly 2 million pto pot does not sound great i think we would agree. thats -more greenwashing than really a benefit . and they use it a lot to promote themselves with this fact . we agree its better than nothing but we should not get the pto that easily away with self marketing.

if i pick number 54 i would say price money is about 9 to 20 grand. i think husky tri is pretty good price money and challenge samorin was also good than likely there is bonuses for top 3 places , so 2.5 k would really not do much .
i guess where the big issue in pto is it that it rewards the big earners way too much . if you would cut the 1 prize at each race and year end bonuses by 25 percent that would be 100 k pto could redistribute if you would do similar with 2nd and 3rd price it would be another 100k or so if you spread this from 20 to 100 that would be 2,5k on top of what 21 to 100th get . ryf and and blummefeld et all would not miss that money for the other 80 that would be mostly valuable.
and of course the best need to make money as with out them its not going to work but they get so much more tv time with pto now , which works for their sponsors and likely allows them to get better sponsorship deals .

It only looks like "not much" because there is even more money going elsewhere.

I'm not saying the distribution is perfect. I'm saying all the athletes are better off with PTO than without. Whether by a little or by a lot. $2500 vs $0 is significant for people on very tight budgets. Calling it "getting away" with "self marketing" is just a bad take when this money means a lot to people.

PTO is a win for athletes and spectators.

International got some solid picks in Hayden and Flora. Really looking forward to this race

Or just split out GB as separate team, women especially very strong

As a Brit, I quite like the idea of us going it alone as a separate team, give the Brownlees a bit more of an insensitive to get their acts together.

just in case i did not suggest that you say pto is perfect

i totally agree PTO is a win BUT mainly for the ones that already doing well , the ones it would not hurt too much to distribute to the ones where it would make more of a difference.

we agree that 5 k instead of 2.5k would be much better for people on a tight budget and for the top 5 athletes in the rankings it would not hurt to distribute 10 percent of the yearly pto budget to the the not haves 21 to 100th
and i would argue the increased visibility for the big athletes is much more important to increase their income . this is what their sponsors should value being more visible more often thanks to PTO.

Go to Instagram and read some comments. You will get the idea.

just seen the teams...In the male category, even prior to the matchups Team EUR seems quite superior with the nordic army.
As for the women's..quite even..maybe US is a bit weaker.EUR vs rest of the world seems the most fair competition right now.
Totally agree with the point about Pallant.Maybe she has declined or we miss something but she is better than H Lawrence nowadays. Would love to see Duffy vs Knibb vs Ryf... just some fire on that bike

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Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P

It would appear that Sutton has had an explosive rant on his Facebook page about all the "armchair experts". Wouldn't have called Lucy Charles -Barclay an armchair expert...

 
https://www.trisutto.com/post/the-samorin-debate

Slightly interested in where he reaction is. Because there are like 30 likes on that post and no comments.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Long course athletes - we need to setup PTO to make long course racing more TV accessible and more money for Pros. PTO- let’s make the racing shorter and bring in faster athletes.

Which only makes sense. Long course racing is boring and not accessible for tv. Introducing short course racers brings in the best triathletes in the world and sets up the competition between the “outsiders” versus the long course athletes the fans know and cheer for. What base tunes in to this glorified exhibition? Mostly long course fans I reckon, so try to bring in some extra eyeballs by bringing in the Gold and Silver medalists. Can the short course athletes move up in distance? Can they handle being in aero and basically transitioning to an entirely different sport? But there is no denying that they are hands down faster. Watching Matthews, True, Moench is boring over this shorter distance.

Can someone share what he said so we don't all give ad revenue to a convicted sex offender by clicking on his link?

There are no ads on the link

Doesn't really matter. Her comments aren't at the link. So, what did she say? And I also can't believe I clicked on, we need to stop providing that person oxygen.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Basically bragging about the fact that he doesn't understand aerodynamics from what I can tell

I always thought Sprig was due a monster performance at middle/long distance, she did have arguably the strongest bike in ITU (not much between her and Duffy) she hasn't been able to execute it at middle distance in the big races for whatever reason, maybe she's just showing her age or had off days so far.

In the run up to Tokyo she 'executed' two excellent races (ahead of Matthews/Norden and Haug; very strong on the bike). But (exclude latest PTO race) she has not raced in any 'big' MD races.
Now recall her serious crash in February; and she's been recovering from that all the way to Sub8.
I support Spirig's selection for 'legacy' reasons.
Pallant should have been selected (as said last week) - I asked for reasons they went for Lawrence and, as far as I can see, those offered ^^^ are:
1) Looks good in a trisuit (well so does Pallant)
2) Lawrence has more Insta followers (100k v 30k)
3) Lawrence is a (n ex) World Champion
4) Wish for Salthouse 'Karma' rematch
Have I missed any?
Will Lawrence's implosion at Boulder tip her the idea that maybe she is not fit to race at Samorin in 10 days time?
Pallant is still travelling and has presumably been nominated as an 'alternate'.
On the INT team where is the outrage that for South America representation, Lopes (the drafter extraordinaire) has been preferred to Baptista?
Recall the latter's excellent race at Oceanside finishing within three minutes of Knibb in a non-drafting race: way better than Lopes giving up 7 minutes to Gentle; and PTO ranking.

Pallant is on the start list for World Triathlon Long Distance Worlds. So is Charles-Barclay

https://triathlon.org/events/start_list/2022_world_triathlon_long_distance_championships_samorin/552893

Aware of that. I cannot believe Charles will race for a pittance. Maybe she has been nominated as an alternate also, which would be another aberration - having a reserve on whom Europe might depend last minute who has just started running again after 8 months off! Would be irrational (but she has got lots of Insta and yt followers, so maybe a commercially-led option). Guess her run would be extra interesting.

From memory Spirig came nowhere at Challange Daytona, I thought she'd win, didn't do much on the bike either.

She has all the tools to be an incredible LC athlete (she had a better bike and run than Ryf did to take with her from ITU) I think the ship might have sailed, no criticism of her at all, she's had an incredible career even before you factor in she was prety much a part time triathlete.

I love Spirig and heard all of her reasoning for a road bike with clipons, but I still feel like it was a poor choice. Sadly we won't ever see what she could have done at LC because with being on a well fit TT bike, she just isn't going to take out the top.

Lucy will race the ITU World Champs. She needs a race to test where she is at to see if she is going to push to go to Kona.

It also keeps her options opens with Brit Tri. The window is open for Paris so she could do with doing some of the end of season races.

Especially as Lawrence pulled up in Boulder 70.3 at the weekend.

After a long rehab rushing to race seems a risk-laden approach. I can see her hoping to be competitive in St George (late October). The idea of going to Kona (to race as opposed to keeping sponsors happy) seems doubtful. But as she says in the repetitive ROKA advert: people have always doubted me . . .
The cunning idea of trying to make Team GBR for Paris seems a pipe dream now. I guess we'll just have to wait till she comes through the denial phase. Before the injury it was borderline possible: now it's not. British Triathlon will not squander resources and WTCS start slots on her. They have medals to win, not insta likes to harvest, and have podium standard athletes performing right now.

I don't think she can realistically make that GB team, before that injury I'd have gave her a chance.

It's a shame if she doesn't race anymore ITU, I loved the damage she was doing on that swim!

Knibb out - not fit and not really a surprise after not racing at Edmonton or any WTCS.
Reviewed in ProTriNews podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/...ri-news/id1559781865
The USA women were unexpectedly competitive with the Europeans last year (mainly because of Haug and Ryf both failing). Without Knibb INT seem likely to be stronger than USA this time, at least that promises to be the closest competition between the 3 teams.
Many/some of the athletes now in Samorin.

Knibb was one of the US weapons for the cup.Guess now Jackie Herring must give a step forward but US seems weaker than Team Int.
I was wondering wether Team EUR picked Lawrence to low its level a bit because Pallant looks much superior.

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Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P

i think sodaro turned some heads at edmonton, and i think the collins cup distance suits her well. depending on her matchup and whether she's able to run like the clappers again, could be interesting.

for my part i think of the collins cup as sort of an 'exhibition event,' more of a paid and sort of competitive jolly for the pros rather than a balls-off race. i'd like to see more really left-field choices. hey, team international, why not see how alex yee would go? hey, team USA - offer gwen to come out of retirement and light it up one more time. why not?

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

As I understand it, young Yee is British (went to the school a couple of roads from mine, ectually) and therefore ineligible for the Internationals team. Of the top short course men, Takumi Hojo might have been a better example, with a much greater commercial reach; or how about Wurf (who's moved to #5 in INT and for sure would liven up the INT team meetings and morale).
As for Jorgensen, the mind boggles, but kudos to the fertility of your imagination. I'm sure that would motivate Danielle Lewis and Jodie Robertson to try harder to get into the USA team for next year.
Any 'left field' wild cards must have a clear rationale which might include encouraging current professionals and not seem "unfair".
On that final note, please can anyone explain to me why Lawrence was preferred to Pallant?

 

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Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P

Because it's an exhibition event and she has a bigger following.

Either Pallant dont get on well with the captains or PTO has told the EUR captains to not pick the best to make the race more interesting. Right now EUR is much superior...just guessing.
It is not just Pallant, you have Langridge, or some ITU girls like GTB, Derron, Lindemann that would fit in the team before Lawrence.

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Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P

Superb analysis from Thorsten: https://www.triathlete.com/...for-the-collins-cup/

unfortunately while the international kit has become a bit cleaner, it is even more horrifically like an australian team kit
Braden is not impressed

I could see a scenario where none of the European women win their races. Maybe only Laura Philipp.

Does anyone know how to watch the ceremony and match-up selections in Europe?

PTO+ is blocked, even if you try to connect with VPN

GCN+ and Eurosport seem to only list the race

For me (UK) Eurosport have the 'Opening Ceremony' in 'Upcoming' timed as if live 1700 BST, 1800 CEST. This has the match ups.
https://www.eurosportplayer.com/sport/triathlon
Last time the 'Press Conference' was a damp squib iirc so see why not being broadcast.

When is that? Today or tomorrow?

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Today at 18:00 CET

Well, ahead of the match ups being presented this evening, here are my WPRO suggestions:
1. Ryf-Duffy-True
2. Philipp-Gentle-Sodaro
3. Haug-Jewett-Watts
4. Matthews-Findlay-Moench
5. Spirig-Lopes-McCauley
6. Lawrence-Salthouse-Hering
Commentary:
1. Ryf only athlete who might beat Duffy, if she can get sufficient gap into T2. Sacrificial lamb - True dat.
2. Rerun of Edmonton battle, hopefully here with Philipp having a typical (for her) swim.
3. Battle of the speedy runners (and Jewett's ride seems to be getting better).
4. Reprise of M v M head to heads (Florida, Tulsa, 70.3WC Utah . . ) and Findlay Canadian TT champ (2022) v GB TT Champ (2020) with Matthews chasing (? Moench in tow).
5. Gives Spirig a chance.
6. PTO will not be able to resist Karma/battle rerun but Hering every chance of beating both.

It appears to be on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrJaLcdDXbE

Match 1 Ryf True Duffy

Match 3 Findlay Matthews Moench

nine out of 9 for my predictions so far! With Philipp Gentle and Sodaro
then 3. Matthews Findlay Moench

Match 5 McCauley Lawrence Salthouse🔥

Match 6 Hering Haug Jewett the Super Runners.

Match 7 Blu Kanute Wilde

Kanute/Blu/Wilde Match 7

Lawrence v Salthouse. Quelle surprise! Same for the two fastest WPROs on the planet (? Haug v Jewett). Spirig given a chance to win.

What do you think for Match 8?

Iden/Sanders/Long

Match 8 Long Sanders Laidlow

Close. That will be a good match up.

I think I'm back to dis-liking Sam Long.

Haha nice one! If you can predict that we'll it tells me the captain pick are a bit bs and most picks are made for showcase. As in run battles, bike battles etc

Match 11 Hanson Iden Laundry

Match ups:
1. Ryf-Duffy-True
2. Philipp-Gentle-Sodaro
3. Matthews-Findlay-Moench
4. Spirig-Lopes-Watts
5. Lawrence-Salthouse-McCauley
6. Haug-Jewett-Hering

7. Kanute-Blummenfelt-Wilde
8. Long-Laidlow-Sanders
9. von Berg-Ditlev-Neumann
10. West-Lange-Royle
11. Hanson-Iden-Laundry
12. Leiferman-Baekkegaard-Currie

Will the US get any wins?

I’d love to see True get one. I think people forget how good she was at ITU and what a trajectory she was on in LC before her heat issues/ pregnancy.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

Match ups:
1. Ryf-Duffy-True
2. Philipp-Gentle-Sodaro
3. Matthews-Findlay-Moench
4. Spirig-Lopes-Watts
5. Lawrence-Salthouse-McCauley
6. Haug-Jewett-Hering

7. Kanute-Blummenfelt-Wilde
8. Long-Laidlow-Sanders
9. von Berg-Ditlev-Neumann
10. West-Lange-Royle
11. Hanson-Iden-Laundry
12. Leiferman-Baekkegaard-Currie

1. Duffy
2. Gentle
3. Findlay
4. Spirig
5. Salthouse
6. Haug

7. Blu
8. Long
9. Von Berg
10. Royle
11. Iden
12. Bækkegard

Should be pretty close points all told.

Hard to see a win for the US on that list.

Maybe Sophie Watts if Lopes and Spirig actually get penalties for their team time trial this time around.

I’d love to see Long take his - whatever happens in that trio is gonna generate lots of conversation!

Von Berg to me seems like the best US bet for a W

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

The Long matchup reminds me of an MTR race where the top leader may be solo and stronger but the chase pack “working together” may be able to pull that lead back while sharing the work.

That will be a very interesting dynamic to see if LS and Long can work together to pull the deficit back.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I dunno that this is really his distance, but I think Leiferman has a great shot too (assuming his swim can stay close enough to Currie).

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KJ
Swim and Triathlon Coach
AllTerrainEndurance.com
KJ@allterrainendurance.com

Interesting point! Hadn’t considered that dynamic.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

 
1. Ryf-Duffy-True DUFFY
2. Philipp-Gentle-Sodaro GENTLE
3. Matthews-Findlay-Moench MATTHEWS
4. Spirig-Lopes-Watts WATTS
5. Lawrence-Salthouse-McCauley SALTHOUSE
6. Haug-Jewett-Hering HAUG

7. Kanute-Blummenfelt-Wilde BLUMMENFELT
8. Long-Laidlow-Sanders LAIDLOW
9. von Berg-Ditlev-Neumann DITLEV
10. West-Lange-Royle ROYLE
11. Hanson-Iden-Laundry IDEN
12. Leiferman-Baekkegaard-Currie BAEKKEGAARD

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Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P

Think that will be a strong 'ask' as Currie and Baekkegaard were both in that front 5 at St George and will expect to swim faster together and gain on the ride together with a good gap to Leiferman by T2. Baekkegaard seriously underperformed on the run there: won't happen here: he will be confident to duke it out with Currie.

Team International in with a real chance to upset Team Europe this time. They could potentially win 5 of the 6 female match-ups. And then Haydn Wilde, Aaron Royle, Lionel Sanders are a chance to win theirs too!

Duffy v Spirig mouth watering! Also looking forward to seeing how Wilde goes, feeling he might blow his load too early.

I already created a ST thread about it but you can do your predictions in the CC Fantasy Game here: https://www.obstri.com/fantasy

thank you.

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Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P

I would be surprised if he does that given the conversations we've had in the last week.
And he has been acquiring all the good TT kit

some good match ups on there. If the racing is as good as the trash talk, we are heading towards a very entertaining afternoon of racing.

Good of the PTO to be putting so many videos out on YT, the behind the scenes one are really funny and not sure how long we will still have this level of access. Enjoy it till it lasts

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Tridad

He has done some middle distance races in the past (quite a long time ago I believe), so yes, will be interesting to see if he remembers the pacing required for the longer distances.

Baekegaard is a hell of a swimmer too, so doubt Leiferman will be close on the swim unfortunately.

Looking forward to the Long-Laidlow-Sanders match up, plenty of smack talk which makes it a little bit more spicy (Sam Laidlow "glad they've given me 2 duathletes to race against"). LOL!

the opening ceremony was mild compared to this!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KskF6TeE08I

definitely not scripted. didn't really like it at the end, a bit too far in my opinion.

---

Tridad

ugh, man.

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

International team has a huge chance. Duffy rhyff at this distance… duffy has her covered, its 3 hr race not ironman, Royle is on top right now and wilde may not win but will go to the line with them, Currie and neuman are the concerns as its a bit short i think for them being more IM specialists. Hopefully Lionel stays upright tjis year. Team usa in trouble massively in most matches.

Why did Sam Long lose his shit?

'Cos he takes himself too seriously, and irony doesn't run in his veins.

Its at the end of this, around 11:30 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KskF6TeE08I

The irony of him not being able to take shit is funny. Laidlow is clearly a bit of a prick, but I like the tension he has made for the match

Typical of a loud mouth that deep down they are massively insecure and try to mask it with being overt.

Also didn't he openly admit to not respecting anyone when he started and spoke about racing T O, going past him and taking the piss only to be overtaken by T O a few miles later

Why didn't he just take the piss out of Sam L's horrific back tattoo or something 🤣

That was hilarious. Lionel took it all in good humor. Long not so much.

I think Sophie Watts, Jackie Herring, Sam Long, and Rudy VB all have above a 15% chance of winning.
I'd guess the over/under on US wins is 1.5.

 

Typical of a loud mouth that deep down they are massively insecure and try to mask it with being overt.

100% this. It felt to me like he now thinks he is one of the big guns who should be respected, forgetting he is a loud mouth who hasn't really lived up to the talk!

It will be rather funny when Lionel buries him on mid bike and then Laidlow flames out on the run with Sam to pick up the bodies and take second.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I don’t know why because I think the strategy ultimately won’t matter….but I’ll be curious how Kanute races the swim and first part of bike.

Again I think he’ll likely rather easily get out classed on the run so does he try and save more for the run or will he just go off the front w/ solo TT for as long as he can.

I like Ben a lot since he came through the usat DL juniors, I almost feel like his S and B has been rather neutralized lately and his run well has always been his weakness.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Sam Long is being an absolute baby there I'm afraid. Laidlow is so easy to slap down that he should have just laughed at him. For someone who has been taking potshots at people like Frodo, like he was pre-Roth, to appear to be so thin-skinned and rant about "respect" isn't a good look.

If I was Sam I'd just have said that based on results Laidlow isn't even in the conversation, and then just start talking to Lionel over his head.

I'm a Brit and think Long will win, Lionel second. Long seems like he is one who can channel anger, but this race here will be a real acid test of his temperament. If he has a poor race after that reaction then he has basically shown everyone how to get in his head and beat him before the start line. Popcorn time.

I think spending a long Summer in Europe will likely help him since he's never done that and only done short trips for races and generally struggled doing that.

Whereas Lionel can deal with the adjustment.

When I was 20, I studied in France and it just fucked me up for like two weeks. Crazy how hard it was to adjust then. I know a lot more things now to get ready to adjust to timezones.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

It's maybe a harsh statement from me, but Sam is a big personality and even celebrity in the sport and there is some responsibility that comes with that, whether he wants it or not, or asked for it or not.

I get that things can be tough, but I'm sure he'll regret his reaction when the dust settles, and I would imagine/hope the scenarios with how he could have dealt with it are flying through his mind now. Laidlow is nowhere near their level in my opinion and Sanders showed how he should have been dealt with; just laugh.

I have no issue whatsoever with Laidlow either, I just don't think he is at their level, nor in the position to say these things. We'll see though, I might end up with egg on my face.

I couldn't care less who wins this race and I think a case could be made for all 3. I only know a little bit about Laidlow but an athlete who has a lot of self-belief about their race is A okay in my mind. I enjoy the banter even if Sam Long didn't appreciate this instance.

Waaay back in the day (I don’t even think I was born yet) there was this “feud” in wrestling between Jerry Lawler and the comedian Andy Kaufman…it even made it on David Letterman’s Late night show.

Lawler “bitch slapped” Kauffman during the tv show and Letterman was freaking out. Security was coming in breaking it up and Kaufman was cursing in the telecast.

Turns out like 10 years later it was all fake. Everyone was thinking it was real etc etc.


That 3 person sit down kinda had that vibe for me, although Ls seemed kinda bored by it. Laidlow didn’t seem to be any affect of playing the heel there.

I’m waiting for Talbot’s behind the scene video of the 3 all laughing 6 mins after that interview.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

 For Sam Long's sake I hope that was staged.... Imagine getting that triggered by some mild trash talk from Sam Laidlow of all people.

PTO, Jerry Spring edition.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Surely he isn't dumb enough to agree to doing that if it was staged though?? he came out of that looking really stupid.

I hadn't heard the Laidlow rap before, but he is bordering on really not cool territory with the Wong/ping pong line!

Ugh, I hate this kind of stuff so much. Unless Laidlow is just that dumb, there is no way he actually thinks he would easily win the race without the swim. And Long actually gets upset that he said that? It was obviously blown out of proportion for views. Why can't we just have some natural humor and talk. Is Lionel and Long not entertaining enough as themselves without all the other crap? Gustav is a great personality too without any fake drama.

So ridiculously fake but the best part is the people saying Long is right and Laidlow should be paying more respect.

If this were real, those people should scroll back a few years to when Long entered the scene and was spewing the same stuff as he went around proclaiming to be the strongest legs in triathlon half a year into his first season.

In my opinion, the fake fighting actually takes away from the event. I much pretty prefer the actual friendly rubbing that the Norwegians give each other and others or the genuine slagging the triathlon mockery engages in. This WWF/E crap is just tedious.

If you listen or read to the Ceo of PTO this is par for the course in how you draw in viewers.

You go all in on…..the athletes

So whether it was fake outrage or even real outrage is irrelevant. That interview will no doubt get more views than any other PTO content. I’ll put $100 on that.


PTO mentioned UFC often in how to build your brand. This shit talking is par for the course for every fight. It’s all part of drumming up interest cus guess what

S-B-R is boring as fuck most especially non draft long course. Adding some drama makes it bearable especially to the non hardcore tri people. “We” will tune in whether they are choir boys or whether they WWE style it.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

ProTriNews podcast just out discussing matches and picks. Recommended.
https://podcasts.apple.com/...1865?i=1000576589600

Well, to be fair to Sam Long, that was during the pandemic and he was putting up dumb numbers going up Mt Lemmon and it was just him and Lionel blowing chunks off each other. And his smack talk isn't the greatest. Like if Laidlow actually had a resume to back that up it would have made it true, and possibly funny. Whereas he doesn't and makes it both untrue and spiteful. I've probably said more than a handful of times I didn't like Wurf's brand of smack talk...but it's grown on me. This wasn't even smack talk, it was just idiotic. Now Sam, he overreacted for sure. He should have snorted into a laugh.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

yeah, i think that's important. last year (and this year again) we have the salthouse/lawrence beef, which i never thought was much of anything, being pushed as drama. it's not really to my taste, but on the other hand, what's a good angle for bringing new eyeballs and ginning up interest? i used to hate the saccharine human interest stories during the NBC kona broadcasts, so i'm glad we're not doing that.

a few other thoughts:
-assuming that video was not staged, long comes off looking really foolish to me - he can dish it out but he can't take it. as mentioned, he's the one who famously proclaimed himself to have the "strongest legs in triathlon" and just 24 hours ago was tring to razz the norwegians while photobombing their track workout.
-the canadian in me (who hates confrontation) was feeling all of lionel's agony. in his shoes, i would also have just say there and smiled painfully.
-americans like to think they can talk trash, but as someone who lived/worked in the UK, i assure you that british banter is on another level. laidlow was just doing a regular friday night pisstake and it broke long in half.

otherwise: some potentially interesting matchups, but some that i'll likely skip. seeing the draws now, though, i think it's far from being a rout for team europe.

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

And that’s why the example I brought up is so brilliant. People thought for years that duel was real.

We’ve had how many posts on the psycho analysis of Sam Long’s psyche now in the last page.


Like it’s f’ing brilliant, whether it’s real or not. That’s the brilliance of it. We are going to psycho analyze it now and pull for “our” guy to beat the “bad” guy. No one loses that’s the beauty in it.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Oh wow, did not realize how thin-skinned he was. He really got under his skin quite easily. It will make for an exciting match. Laidlow will drill the swim and the bike while the other two will be chasing hard.

Real or fake (I believe it's real)... this is exactly what triathlon needs. This draws in views which leads to more sponsors.

It doesn't matter who is right or wrong in what they said, this is good for the sport. We need more of it. Athletes need to speak their mind more and not hold back. And media needs to ask the tough questions to get a rise out of the athletes.

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blog

Long looks like a thin-skinned imbecile. He has the loudest mouth in Triathlon and when someone rags on him he gets offended. He has a lot of growing up to do, but the best cure is for Sam and Lionel to obliterate him.

I feel the same way. Is he bipolar or something? I know two people close to me have bipolar and Sam Long acted just like them. He got fired up for nothing. I've noticed he's more talk and less show lately on his social media too. I will watch out for this match for sure. I want to see if he can deliver. On the other hand, LS stayed classy in that awkward situation.

Exactly. We need some trash talk and rivalry for the media to hone in on. 27 athletes all explaining how much they love each other and how great it is to be in a team is just plain boring.

Sam Laidlow mouthing off how he has no wins to speak of but is going to kick everyones butt is exactly what I want to see. I hope he wins and then starts mouthing off about it, just for the entertainment factor. It should create some fun YouTube for Talbot to exploit. Imagine the Lionel post race video if he gets third. I can picture it now - Erin and him in the mothercare outlet choosing a cot for the first borne while Lionel spouts off how rubbish he is and he needs to start training at sea level again. I wonder who the next coach will be? Meanwhile Sam Laidlow and Sam Long agree to a rematch at Indian Wells 70.3 in December and start sharing YouTube videos of their training trash talking each other. Should be fun!

Or we could just have 27 athletes all finish the race, say how wonderful it was and go home.

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He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

Haven't seen the smack talk, but been saying for years this sort of stuff is what Triathlon needs to appeal to casual sports fans.

I'll usually get slapped down on here by traditionalists for suggesting it, they may need to go one step further and have them go to fight each other (who cares if its staged if it brings interest to the sport?)

Boxing/MMA have been using this template for years and there's a reason Floyd Mayweather v Connor McGregor made 600 mill, even though deep down everyone knew the fight was a farce.

Totally, I was impressed by Lionel's reaction. Basically just laughed it off and seemed quite happy that the focus wasn't all on him for once.

I think the 1v1v1 thing is great as a once a year spectacle. Fake or not, (I am leaning towards not for Sam V Sam, and definitely fake for Ellie V Holly) it adds some spice to things, I am way more invested in Sam V Sam V Lionel than I would have been without all this nonsense!

Oh! She was Sophie Chase. That all makes so much more sense. I had no idea who Sophie Watts was or why people were picking her.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

I think people are picking her more because Nicola is finally falling off a bit, (and if she rides a road bike on this course, that certainly will NOT help) and Vitoria isn't great on the longer runs.

All that said, I won't be surprised if she does very well the longer removed from her surgery she is. She is a very strong athlete.

When the adult in the room is - of all people - Lionel Sanders, you can't help but ask yourself "how the hell did we get here", LOL.

Sam Long is a great guy but there's something to this insecurity. I thought the smack talking was just for shits and giggles and that he had more self-awareness. Now he claims to have gone from seriously shit talking to seriously respecting people. I can relate, I was like that at age 11.

His bipolar behavior has given me advanced schizophrenia because I'm now a Sanders, Long and Laidlow fan. Poor me!

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

Funniest part for me was when Blu was timing Sanders, going 81, 82.... knowing that he was running at race pace.

Gotta love SL though. If he got inside of Longs head I think Long will blow up on the run due to over biking.

Also, Chase and Watts are two fantastic triathlon names…

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

I hope he can, I'm baseing this on the fact he's gone off quick and faded a few times at superleague and shorter distance, I think he's a match for Blum on the bike and run but Blums been training at this distance (and longer) all year, be huge if Wilde can pull this off.

Sam is pissed. Hope he has a decent swim to make race interesting.

Just watched Long's speech in the press conference. This is either brilliantly choregraphed (I really don't think so), or this guy has the maturity of an 8-year-old. The speech was ridiculous, would have been better to shut up and talk about stuffed animals of just laugh about it. Ladlow's apology was pathetic, he should have told Long to suck it up and shut up (regardless of race results).

But as other said, it adds interest - I could not bear listening to the rest of this thing with these stupid questions, it was awful.

I'm rooting for Team USA, but predicting a Team Int'l Win. Team Int'l has more short/middle course speed than Team USA and Europe combined. Almost all of USA/Europe is focused on long course and peaking for Kona; whereas Team Int'l is mostly peaking for this event specifically. The ITU days for most of team Europe and USA were well over a decade ago.

I'm taking Wilde to beat Blu. Wilde is hungrier and is peaking for this event, whereas I believe Blu is focused on Kona and trying to train through these Collin events which is why he had "power issues" in Edmonton.

The speed and youth of the Internationals are going to get them the win tomorrow.

Agreed.
She went from strength to strength.

Wilde would have peaked for Commonwealths surly? Which was a sprint and the relay even shorter, as good as Wilde is don't think it's possible to peak for a sprint and this in less than a month?

Isn't that the issue with the distance though, it really favours the short course athletes 🤔. It's gonna be a lot easier for Wilde, Duffy etc to tell themselves to run 10s slower per km for 18km rather than their usual 5k or 10k pace but a lot harder for Ryf or Ditlev to make themselves move 10s faster per km knowing it will be over quicker

I can assure you this was not staged or fake. I dont think this video provides the built up and context to what happened. I like both sams. I do have to back sam long on this one. There was alot of personal messages sent and maybe to the point it was bullying. This was just the breaking point.

This was all real prob should of not been shown on Camera tbh but im sure you all saw the press conference and what sam had to say.

I do know after the door slam lionel went and got sam and got him fired up and chatted with him for a bit. You will deff see sanders and long working together.

That’s hilarious. Sam has talked much worse about others and he couldn’t handle that comment? Based on the intro to the clip I thought it was going to be much worse. He’s definitely taking himself too seriously.

12 hours to go. As Wellington probably did not say after Waterloo, it's going to be a "damn close run thing". Every bonus point (won or 'saved') is going to count.

Match ups and predicted points:
1. Ryf-Duffy-True INT 4.5 EUR 3.5 USA 1
2. Philipp-Gentle-Sodaro INT 3.5 USA 2 EUR 1
3. Matthews-Findlay-Moench EUR 4 INT 2.5 USA 1
4. Spirig-Lopes-Watts INT 4 EUR 3 USA 1
5. Lawrence-Salthouse-McCauley INT 4 EUR 3 USA 1
6. Haug-Jewett-Hering USA 4 EUR 3 INT 1
WPRO totals: INT 19.5 EUR 16 USA 10

7. Kanute-Blummenfelt-Wilde INT 4 EUR 3 USA 1
8. Long-Laidlow-Sanders INT 3.5 EUR 2 USA 1
9. von Berg-Ditlev-Neumann EUR 5 USA 2.5 INT 1
10. West-Lange-Royle INT 4 EUR 2.5 USA 1
11. Hanson-Iden-Laundry EUR 6 INT 2 USA 1
12. Leiferman-Baekkegaard-Currie EUR 3.5 INT 2.5 USA 1
MPRO totals: EUR 22 INT 17 USA 7.5

Overall Totals: EUR 38 INT 36.5 USA 17.5
This could easily go down to the last match.

I have been in a number of races where racers lose all of their ability to read the room when their blood sugar is low.

I recall after a race seeing a racer yelling at a volunteer for checking race numbers before retrieving bikes. I told him that the volunteer is just doing their job and he knows that he needs his number. He threw a fit and told me to fuck off, told the volunteer to fuck off and told everybody around to fuck off. I was hoping that he'd post on slowtwitch later.

Triathletes....This is what it looks like when we are in a calorie defecit and we can't hold our shit together. It seems really important to us, but to everybody else, we look like the damn bitch.

Somebody get Sam Long a Snickers Bar!!!

Really cool of Lionel to take the elder statesman role, but again this doesn’t look the best for Long. Does the “strongest legs in triathlon” need someone to hold his hand through this?

Whether it is fake/Intentional or whatever this is shaping up to be must see.

Lol, probably true. I certainly get that way myself.

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My Strava | My Instagram | Summerville, SC | 35-39 AG | 4:41 (70.3), 10:05 (140.6) | 3x70.3, 1x140.6 | Cat 2 Cyclist

Thanks for the clarification

From that scene I just figured Laidlaw was a lot better than Sam and Lionel

Side story is it possible Lionel had covid in his last race? I thin the day or 2 after Edmonton he tested positive

That was so cringe inducing that it had to be staged.

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the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning

Gotta agree with Talbot that the the pile onto Sam Long shouldn't have been shown by the PTO. They just endorsed bullying.

And before anyone else recommends toxic masculinity (suck it up! it's boys being boys!), think about how many kids might have seen this who are bullied at school -- people, it's a lot these days. A LOT.

Rap that Laidlow authored also pokes fun at Sam Long for wearing pink -- and, fellas, we all know those references are dog whistle for pink representing soft femininity...because the world thinks that women who can push a bowling ball out of their bodies and then return to elite level athletics are "soft." Laidlow just wore toxic masculinity all over that. Thanks to the PTO for normalizing bullying [slow clap]

@talbot you have an inside view of the PTO. Can you send this back? I know that every single one of my women friends are cringing at this display by the PTO. It's not helping draw women into the sport.

I wouldn't bother Talbot, look how much attention it's got!

We can go back to Triathlon all being nice and no one really gets paid.

I hope Sam Long crushes Laidlow.

If you listen to what he is saying, he cops to being obnoxious and flamboyant in the past, but he was never hurtful. He’s being bullied by a lot of 2nd tier pros who think his outlandish personality has garnered him more sponsorship money than he deserves. Maybe they’re right. But, constantly bagging on him makes these athletes look childish and petty.

Sam Laidlow better strap it on tomorrow.

Yes I admit I wasn't 100% up with Laidlows record but even in the video he admits he hasn't really won anything.



Definitely could have been exposed to Covid before the race and the disease started affecting him at race time but he said (on his discord channel) he started showing symptoms on Wednesday after the race which would make me think he probably caught it after the race. Most people I know that have caught it usually were exposed 2-3 days before showing symptoms. Just a guess though.

But the reality is, whether Laidlow backs it up or not, one will get to say "I told you so" the other will have to take it, and then I bet dollars to donuts they hug it out, high five, talk the other person up as a great race. This isn't going to be some long term "personal" beef. It'll mellow out, while the PTO may still keep it some contrived on going thing like they have the Lawrence Salthouse "rivalry".

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II