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Latex tube repair (at valve patch)
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Had a few Vittoria's (have been laying around a year or so) - was going to install and one failed at the valve patch... started looking at the adhesive had started to lift on all of them.

What's everyone's go to fix for that? (the black section glued onto the pink latex tube)

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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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Profanity. Which I normally try to avoid, but latex tubes will ALWAYS fail at the seams eventually. I had a fairly new one fail just this week and swore off latex again forever. I'm so sick of latex construction failure I just gave in and decided no more.

You can try and patch it, but remember what I said about profanity.
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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I don't try to fix the valve bit. I can't say that you won't find a fruitful method of repair, just failures in that bit are so damn insidious that it's not worth the risk for me.

I agree with the other poster about inconsistent latex tube build quality. My use of them has gotten very limited. TT race wheels that I use too infrequently for tubeless to make sense, or outdoor track use.

Silca tubes, so far, have treated me very well. Zero manufacturing issues experienced so far.

I went through a really bad patch with some other brands. (And I like to think I'm masterclass at installation, including making sure I have neutral pressure on the valve stem to take it easy on the valve patch).
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Does silca still use the larger rubber patch? Vitoria made theirs smaller and I've had these failures since then. None before they made that change...
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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yeah, in this case not install error (as they are all still in the box except the first one I opened) I've been running latex over a decade at this point

It's not the end of the world, but I certainly would prefer to not just throw away $75 worth of Latex tubes if I can re-bond the patch.

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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No, the Silca patch is small. But, so far, durable.
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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Morelock wrote:
What's everyone's go to fix for that? (the black section glued onto the pink latex tube)

Weird that I've never had that issue! Tubes never used? The black part is coming unglued from the latex at the outer edge? Seems like rubber cement should work...
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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In my case, it wasn't visible. Installed a new tube, leaked down over night. Took it out, dipped it under water, and sure enough there was a tiny leak at the patch.

I wonder why they made the patch smaller. That amount of rubber costs less than a penny but made the durability noticeably worse. There was an old thread on here before on this topic. Seems more than several people are having this problem.
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
Morelock wrote:
What's everyone's go to fix for that? (the black section glued onto the pink latex tube)


Weird that I've never had that issue! Tubes never used? The black part is coming unglued from the latex at the outer edge? Seems like rubber cement should work...

Never have either... I've had some pierce eventually near the valve but never just one start lifting up from the latex. Now a bunch all doing it. I'll pick up some rubber cement tomorrow and see if that does it

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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You can use the vulcanizing glue from a traditional patch kit.



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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [cdw] [ In reply to ]
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I tried this approach after a TON of frustration. (profanity)

Finally decided it was time. Happened fast. Almost beyond my control. Didn't seem to work very well.


Purchasing new tubes and running them in more flat-proof tires (Conti Gators) in training so that I have fewer reinstalls from low/no pressures. We also run high enough tire pressure (>90psi) that with each daily inflation and reattachment of the pump head, there is less of a stretch on those valve rubber patches than if we were running wider tires at <70psi.

When we used to get flats more often while running GP 4000's and 5000's for all training, I'd also end up with more of these rubber valve patch failures, presumably because the stretching of the material with each pump head attachment. Totally guessing here. Hasn't been an issue for us since we started running more flat-resistant tires in training.

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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
Morelock wrote:
What's everyone's go to fix for that? (the black section glued onto the pink latex tube)


Weird that I've never had that issue! Tubes never used? The black part is coming unglued from the latex at the outer edge? Seems like rubber cement should work...

Rubber cement worked a treat, just took up the whole rubber section, cleaned and re-glued it to the latex.

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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This leak at the valve thing is a bugger. At OH dark thirty pumping up my tires at CDA (half asleep), with a borrowed pump, I pushed the head harder than I would have with my pump, and that tube was done for. Not a low stress time. I raced to the on site mechanics and they swapped out a conventional tube in no time flat (BIG THANKS). I can't remember if it was a Bontrager or Vittoria tube.

I've tried repairs in that area with no success, however, repairs elsewhere have generally been quite durable.

Live long and prosper (I mean latex tubes!)

I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
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2. __________
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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Cool,,, thanks for the info...
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [manofthewoods] [ In reply to ]
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manofthewoods wrote:
I pushed the head harder than I would have with my pump, and that tube was done for.

In my early latex days, I realized that the base of the valve needs to be seated well against the inside of the rim for the first few pump strokes. If not then the tube will balloon to fill that space, and get stretched and weak... and possibly pop.
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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How does that work when you're just topping up? Let all the air out first? I don't have enough stem sticking out to hold on to while I push the head on
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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What sort of pump head and valve?
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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The type you push on and then swivel a lever. Topeak Joe Blow something.

I do have a travel Lezyne pump which screws on. Honestly what might be the best type for Latex, because it doesn't require any amount of pushing
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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DrAlexHarrison wrote:


Purchasing new tubes and running them in more flat-proof tires (Conti Gators) in training so that I have fewer reinstalls from low/no pressures. We also run high enough tire pressure (>90psi) that with each daily inflation and reattachment of the pump head, there is less of a stretch on those valve rubber patches than if we were running wider tires at <70psi.

I'm curious why you aren't using butyl tubes then. They cost less, you can air them up less frequently, and you won't have to worry about the rubber patches at the valve. If you're running Gators, rolling resistance and supple feel don't seem high up on your priority list.
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [rob_bell] [ In reply to ]
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rob_bell wrote:
DrAlexHarrison wrote:


Purchasing new tubes and running them in more flat-proof tires (Conti Gators) in training so that I have fewer reinstalls from low/no pressures. We also run high enough tire pressure (>90psi) that with each daily inflation and reattachment of the pump head, there is less of a stretch on those valve rubber patches than if we were running wider tires at <70psi.


I'm curious why you aren't using butyl tubes then. They cost less, you can air them up less frequently, and you won't have to worry about the rubber patches at the valve. If you're running Gators, rolling resistance and supple feel don't seem high up on your priority list.

Why we use Gators and latex for training: Butyl tubes wouldn't solve any of our flat issues. Most our flats come from debris on the side of the road. Can't count the number of tire gashes we've had on GP 4000's & 5000's. Love their feel, and rode them for 3 yrs before finally deciding to take the 20W RR hit by moving to the Gators. Most of all, I was tired of driving out mid workday to pick up my wife who was stranded with a blown out tire and tube.

Why I brought up Gators in this discussion:
Mostly it was an ironic unintentional fix to that rubber-latex junction problem for us. It is definitely not the best solution if one's only problem is leaks at the rubber-latex junction! ha!

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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DrAlexHarrison wrote:
rob_bell wrote:
DrAlexHarrison wrote:


Purchasing new tubes and running them in more flat-proof tires (Conti Gators) in training so that I have fewer reinstalls from low/no pressures. We also run high enough tire pressure (>90psi) that with each daily inflation and reattachment of the pump head, there is less of a stretch on those valve rubber patches than if we were running wider tires at <70psi.


I'm curious why you aren't using butyl tubes then. They cost less, you can air them up less frequently, and you won't have to worry about the rubber patches at the valve. If you're running Gators, rolling resistance and supple feel don't seem high up on your priority list.

Why we use Gators and latex for training: Butyl tubes wouldn't solve any of our flat issues. Most our flats come from debris on the side of the road. Can't count the number of tire gashes we've had on GP 4000's & 5000's. Love their feel, and rode them for 3 yrs before finally deciding to take the 20W RR hit by moving to the Gators. Most of all, I was tired of driving out mid workday to pick up my wife who was stranded with a blown out tire and tube.

Why I brought up Gators in this discussion:
Mostly it was an ironic unintentional fix to that rubber-latex junction problem for us. It is definitely not the best solution if one's only problem is leaks at the rubber-latex junction! ha!

Off topic, but if you want to get most of the speed back you could think about GP5000 TL. They have much better protected sidewalls than the non-TL GP5000 (which doesn't have the most sturdy sidewalls). They might be harder to install and change a tube in, though.
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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Great point. Have considered going tubeless for a while, but would require some new wheels in our lineup. For now, latex is the way. I do look forward to the day we make the jump to tubeless for road.

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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Great point. Have considered going tubeless for a while, but would require some new wheels in our lineup


You don't have to go tubeless to run the tubeless version of those tires. Just run 'em with the latex tubes and you get the GP tire with extra sidewall protection that it sounds like you want!

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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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Great point. Why I didn't think of that... not sure!

Any knowledge of how the sidewall and tread protection compares to the Gators? Goal: make darn sure Michelle doesn't need to be picked up 50 miles from the house during rush hour. :)

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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It's absolutely not Gatorskin level, not even close. You just don't get that without making the tire ride like a brick. Frankly, though, I haven't ever seen the need for Gatorskin-level protection other than in the wet season... and I ride on the same roads as ya'all do!

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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I hadn't either but Michelle and I seem to have an uncanny ability to get flats. In Michelle's case it was often irreparable even with patch, gorilla tape, and new tube. Can't count how many times I've had to go pick her up. She seems to be a glass and nail magnet. I may explore less brick-like tires in the future though.

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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FWIW, when folks consistently have that kind of "luck", it's almost always a case of needing to learn how to avoid riding over the crap that is causing the problem. Eventually, if you don't learn how to not run over that stuff, it's going to catch up with you in a race. Removing the "damn, I flatted again" stimulus by running bulletproof tires makes the lesson really hard to receive.
Michelle's talent and hard work has let her vault so far up the typical development timeline that I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's a fair bit of fertile ground in this area of her skillset.

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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Agree with every word. I may have watched this in action, in horror, in front of me (I'm always drafting). This has probably contributed to my "luck" as well. Perhaps I should develop enough fitness that I'm not blindly drafting 80% of every ride...

Very good thoughts re: it catching up to her in a race, and lesson receipt! I'll ponder.

These will be the most negative words I ever publicly author about my wife! Good thing she doesn't get on this forum. ;)

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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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Hah! Mum's the word next time I see her!

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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Update -

Rubber cement (Elmer's fwiw) failed after a couple of hours on two tubes, both lifted again in the same area. One held overnight (at least within normal loss of latex) but middle of the day in the garage gave up, other one lasted only a few minutes. Another one has (so far) held for over a day.

Ordered some Rema Vulcanizing fluid on Amazon, will see if that holds better. Will also probably go back, clean everything and re-try.

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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Caffelatex then ride them for a year until it dries.
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [trail] [ In reply to ]
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I had one fail. Given it was a 1 year old tube so a year of use was pretty good. My guess is Silca is more durable than most but it has its limits.
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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Morelock wrote:
Update -

Rubber cement (Elmer's fwiw) failed after a couple of hours on two tubes, both lifted again in the same area. One held overnight (at least within normal loss of latex) but middle of the day in the garage gave up, other one lasted only a few minutes. Another one has (so far) held for over a day.

Ordered some Rema Vulcanizing fluid on Amazon, will see if that holds better. Will also probably go back, clean everything and re-try.

FYI, I have had rubber cement fail on butyl tubes too, and I am under the impression that rubber cement is not vulcanizing fluid, and the latter is what patches tubes.

It seems like I am not the only person to have some latex tubes fail near the valve patch. My failure mechanism is different from what I think the original post is saying. I had some little micro tears develop by the patch, as if they were punctured but this is the side of the tire facing the rim cavity. Both times, the issue happened on my rear wheel. There weren't any rough or sharp edges inside the rim, so I am guessing that it was that rim strip and that one only. I replaced it. The front rim (same model, same rim strip) had no visible issues with the tube.

FWIW, both failed tubes were either Vittoria under their own name or Silca, which is made by Vittoria. The replacement tube that Silca was nice enough to mail me used the small round rubber patch.

I don't want to believe that latex tubes will fail at the seam eventually. If literally all of them do, why isn't this common knowledge? Latex tubes are presented as a slam dunk if you're willing to pump up your tires every day. I am still on that side of things. Maybe they're just more sensitive to imperfections in the rim or rim strip. A different post here attributed the failures I experienced to not holding the valve in place when pumping it up - OK, but how come that procedure isn't common knowledge, how come Vittoria's tubes don't have external threads for valve nuts, how do you actually expect me to hold a stem firmly in place with my fingers, etc.
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [weiwentg] [ In reply to ]
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but latex tubes are a balancing act of reward and hassle. Like I said in post number 2, I have never, ever had a latex tube "wear out" after many years of use. Not once. On several occasions I've maybe managed a year or two of use from one tube if it was a race wheel that I did not inflate often, my rim strip/rim did not have any imperfections, I stored it inside and frankly, I was just lucky. In most cases they fail near the stem where the ends are joined. On a wheel I use regularly, if I get six months usage then I consider it best case scenario.
Inconsistency is what drives me nuts. This most recent case was one of the worst. I developed a slow leak that I could not identify, even under water. It would sometimes last an hour and one time lasted through a nearly eight-hour ride but then lost air quickly leaving me stranded. I put some sealant in and it fixed the flat and then the next time I went to air it up, it blew at the seam for no apparent reason.
You can't store them long term either, or buy them in bulk. They dry out and crack. I put them in baggies once, even tried a vacuum sealer. When I pulled it out six months later it immediately cracked and split. Latex is just fragile.
If I ever decide to race again, I'll probably buy them for the 4-6 watts, but otherwise I swore off them last week, right before this thread started.
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [cdw] [ In reply to ]
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cdw wrote:
You can't store them long term either, or buy them in bulk. They dry out and crack.

seems to be right in my experience right now :D

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [cdw] [ In reply to ]
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cdw wrote:
You can't store them long term either, or buy them in bulk. They dry out and crack. I put them in baggies once, even tried a vacuum sealer. When I pulled it out six months later it immediately cracked and split.

Let me guess...you used the Michelin green tubes, right? ;-) Those are notorious for drying out/cracking, unlike most every other latex tube (i.e. Vittoria, Silca, Challenge, etc.)

cdw wrote:
Latex is just fragile.

Not really. Like I said above, it depends on the brand. I have MULTIPLE latex tubes I've had on hand for years. I store them in a ziplock baggie, in a relatively cool, dark environment (in a cabinet, in an attached garage, in a moderate climate). The only tubes I've had (new, or used) that have done what you describe are the Michelins.

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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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maybe by cruel chance, the only latex tube I had laying around that didn't have (this specific) issue was a green Michelin I pulled out of a training wheel.
It's a tough bastard, easily the oldest of the ones I had, and used vs. new in the box like the Vittorias

(although I do agree with you, in the past I had bad luck with Michelin's, and also no removable core)

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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [cdw] [ In reply to ]
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I have a few Vittoria latex tubes I bought in Dec. 2017. They're still like new, no evidence of cracking or drying out. I installed one a few months ago with no issues. Just my experience.

To add: I just keep them on a shelf in the garage in the original box. I haven't bothered with a Ziploc bag.
Last edited by: Ken: Jul 28, 21 9:39
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Let me guess...you used the Michelin green tubes, right? ;-) Those are notorious for drying out/cracking, unlike most every other latex tube (i.e. Vittoria, Silca, Challenge, etc.)

No, that goes across all brands I have used over the last 20 years. Michelin, Silca, Challenge and Vittoria. I have lived in a hot, dry desert climate but when I stored them it was often indoors in my closet or under my bed.

cdw wrote:
Latex is just fragile.

Fine, then pick a different word that describes how they will "fail for no apparent reason.' There have been a couple of user errors situations that were my fault, but 9 times out of 10 I have to throw latex tubes away after they spontaneously lost air somewhere in such a way they could not be patched. Most often it is where the tube is jointed near the stem.
In 30 odd years of cycling, I've tossed several butyl tubes that had 8, 10 patches but I've never done that with latex. Eventually every one of them failed in a way that no butyl tube ever has.
It is good some of you have a different experience, but like I said above, latex has always been a balance of hassle and reward and after a number of failures over the last few months, I'm on a latex thumbs-down cycle.
I would run everything tubeless, but the same heat that dries out latex tubes also turns my sealant to sludge in two or three weeks. If I could keep all my bikes in the bedroom, that might be less of a problem...
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Re: Latex tube repair (at valve patch) [cdw] [ In reply to ]
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cdw wrote:
I'm on a latex thumbs-down cycle.

I'm at the same point now. Ran latex for a year without any issues. Then got a flat from debris and have gone through 4 more tubes since then. One from a puncture and the others at the valve stem where rubber meets latex.

Considering a switch to Aerothan or using my spare butyl tubes until my current tires wear out and then giving tubeless a try.
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