GTN did an experiment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4qXS740nEM



SPOILER ALERT - The triathlon bike won.

There does exist a hilliness that makes a lighter road bike more favorable.

It doesn't exist in triathlons though.

The tri bike will always be faster on any course where a triathlon is being contested.

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There are some tris out there where it probably makes sense to use the road bike with clip ons. Cam Wurf did it at Andorra and had the fastest bike split there. Much easier to handle descents on switchbacks with a road bike, and the lighter weight will help on very steep areas. Most triathletes don't handle well so they'll benefit from using the road bike on a course like Andorra. But for the most part the tri bike will be faster. If for every 10 miles there's more than 1000 ft. of elevation gain I think it's worth considering.

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Do you have electronic shifting on your tri bike? Then I’d definitely use that. If not, I’d still use the tri bike unless the course has a lot of sharp turns that require hard braking into them.

Great points. I was unaware that there were tri's that exceeded that 1000ft/10mi threshold. Good to know. And really good point about triathletes and tentativeness on descents. Hadn't considered that at all.

Do you know off-hand if there are a lot of tri's out there exceeding 1000ft/10mi or is it limited to a known very few?

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In the US there's Savageman https://kineticmultisports.com/races/savageman/ I've never done it, but I think it might be an interesting one to try.

In Europe there's Alpe d'Huez https://www.alpetriathlon.com/?lang=en which is on my bucket list of races to do, I believe there's at least a few more in Europe that would meet that criteria.

Hard to find too many places or people that would want to do that, but certainly possible in the mountain states.

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Straight up and down a mountain?
Tri-bike, hands down.
European Mountains (switchbacks, twisty)?
I am in the camp of Nicola Spirit and Gustav Iden.

Much more comfortable, stable and likely equally quick on a road set-up.
No major pucker factor going into a steep downhill switchback or constantly in and out of aero.

After all, I am doing this for enjoyment and am not getting payed to ride a certain bike.

Those are some cool races. I should correct my original statement.

For age groupers, courses like those are probably an exception to the rule, and a TT bike might not be faster.

At the elite level, I suspect a TT bike down in the 15-pound range would be faster up to maybe 1200ft/10mi... and depending on treacherousness of descents. No data to back this up.

I checked out the course at Andorra 70.3 but can't find total elevation gain. Do you know it?

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Here’s the course:
https://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/256164451

No electronic shifters or brakes.

I am a a nervous descender.

Thanks for the advice and insight!

Looks fairly benign and straight. Tri bike.

Looking at the strava data here it's at least 6200. https://www.strava.com/activities/5575083083 But the GPS seemed to cut out at one point for a few miles so hard to know for sure how much it really was.

Flo cycling has a podcast that's discussed this topic a few times, they're definitely worth listening to.

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Add the Triathlon Du Mont Blanc International Mont-Blanc Triathlon - 21 & 22 August 2021 (montblanc-triathlon.fr) to that list, 1900m elev / 70k

I had to use my road bike in a tri a couple years ago, as the shifters on the tri bike broke the week of the race. I ended up with the fastest bike split of the race on my road bike. Around 4500 ft climbing in a 70.3. I’ve also done the same race with my tri bike and been 4-5’ faster.

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This is how I approached the same problem recently. I set up this bike for use at the White Mountains olympic triathlon in New Hampshire.


This course is a bit unique in that it starts with a massive (40 mph+) descent, and has a significant hillclimb (~4 miles) up about 1,000 ft to the finish with a timed KOM segment along it.
While I have a dedicated tri bike (P3), I decided to do something a little different for this race and did some modifications to my trusty old mid-2000s Roubaix that normally serves on trainer duty. This allowed me to stay more comfortable on the steep descent (Drops are a LOT better for this than bullhorns) and in theory helped me climb a bit faster on the hilly KOM portion.

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I've never chosen my road bike of a tri bike for a race, but the one thing that might make me consider it would be really bad roads. The course at the Salt Fork TTT was constant up and down with some terrible roads. I was in and out of the aerobars constantly.

If the race had happened in 2020, I was considering a road bike. I've heard some of it has been repaved since then.

Very personal choice depending on your downhill abilities on each bike, the course profile, the difference in weight between your 2 bikes. My road bike is a climbers bike, 3kg lighter than my TT bike.
If there's a long and hard climb (like Hors catégorie in le Tour) followed by a descent, I go for my road bike

Tri races I did on my road bike (without clip-on aerobars) and was happy with my choice
- Nice 70.3 WC (1500m positive elevation over 90km)
- Alspman (4500m of elevation over 180km - no one rides a TT bike)
- Embrunman (4500m of elevation over 180km)
- I raced Andorra 70.3 last weekend (2000m positive elevation over 90km) and 90%+ of Age groupers were on road bikes, probably 50% of the pros. The male winner rode a TT bike.
Here are my strava files for the 70.3 Andorra race last weekend.
The course goes into a long flat tunnel for ~15km in total, hence the weird data, but I think total elevation on the bike was 2000m+. 2 serious climbs and 3 twisty descents.
https://www.strava.com/activities/5577404064
https://www.strava.com/activities/5577404007
and my race report, for what it's worth: https://mymsracesironman.home.blog/...3-ironman-july-2021/

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There is another option. It kind of gives you the best of both worlds ... and it is excellent for descending:

https://darkspeedworks.com/blog-triathlonbike.htm

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Kienle's favourite race, the Heidelbergman Triathlon in Germany (short distance) has 830 m (2700 ft) of climbing on the 35 km (21 mi) bike course. Kienle and Lange are record winners (three wins each). Almost everyone races a normal road bike, most even without clip-ons. I'm not sure yet whether to put clip-ons on this year or not. The main argument against is not the weight, but better control on the steep and technical descents.

I hope there are brakes.

Jest aside, a few things for you to consider.

This is in the Virginia Piedmonts. I've never ridden in Culperpper per se, but I've ridden a lot in the nearby areas (Shenandoah and Maryland rolling hill country). Purely in terms of total ascent over distance, I wouldn't say a tri bike is disadvantaged. Someone upthread mentioned the 2% number (for total ascent/ distance), and this course isn't there. But chances are, you also aren't losing much on a standard road bike (assuming good aerodynamic position), and even less if you use bars like the 3T Zefiro or have a good clip-on position (again, assuming a good position that mimics your tri bike position).

You also mentioned confidence issue, and this presumably will be there whether you are on your road bike or tri bike (though presumably a more significant issue when it comes to the tri bike). What will often help is knowledge of the course. If you are at all nearby, pre-ride the course on the bike of your choice (assuming you consider the roads safe enough to ride). Alternatively, you can simply drive the course and make mental notes of blind curves, off-camber turns, and such. This way, the more technical stuff won't catch you by surprise.

Road bike. I've ridden that course and those road many times. You will be going up and down between aero and base bars all the time if you are on the tri bike. I don't think you will lose much with a road bike, especially if you could put a clip-on aerobar on it. Just getting out transition area for that course is PITA with a tri bike.

Only time I have chosen a road bike over a Tri Bike was the 70.3 Worlds at Nice.

It contained a Tour de France Category One 10km (6mi) climb. But more importantly around 30kms (20mi) of reasonably technical descending. I am not only faster descending on my road bike, I also stay a lot more relaxed - which saves energy for the run.

Before the race in Nice I did a recce ride of the course with 12 or so other triathletes. Only 2 of us were on road bikes. On the descent we stopped and waited for the others to catch up every 5km or so (it was always a significant wait). About half way down, most of the triathletes on the tri-bike were complaining about how sore their arms and hands were (some had sore necks as well). On the road bike I was completely relaxed with no signs of any stiffness.

I'm guessing about 40% of the age groupers chose road bikes and I didn't hear anyone regret their decision. I can only remember one pro on a road bike - he won.

Thanks to all for the great input. I was just about sold on going tri bike based on the first round of responses, but dalava's lived experience has swayed me toward roadie. Unfortunately I don't think I'll have a chance to slap aero bars on it beforehand.

I'll let you all know what I ride and how it goes!

Yes, I would have loved a road bike at Nice 70.3 worlds too! That was quite a unique course (and I've done many hilly courses in the past). Normally I would ride a tri bike on any 70.3, even the hilly ones. But there are always exceptions like Nice!

I would ride the bike you will feel most confident. It also depends on your goals too.

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Gotta disagree with you. I have raced two tris where a road bike was a much better idea. First one was a sprint in Evergreen Colorado. The bike course climbed out of transition for 8 miles, then descended back down the other side of the mountain for 5 miles on twisty roads. Not once was I in aero. That would have been a course for a road bike.

Second example: Nice WC 2019. 10k flat out of town I was in aero, then the course climbed relentlessly for 35k, then descended on rather twisting roads for 35k, then finally 10k flat back to town... Overall winner in fact had a road bike. I would have preferred to have my road bike there as well.

But... in general... yes, tri bikes almost always are better, unless you have a course like I describe in the two examples above where the course is entirely on a mountain.

Yep. It's not even really the hilly part that matters. It's a matter of are you going to be taking advantage of the aero aspect of the heavier bike. If it's a course like Nice WC 70.3, no, you really are not taking advantage of aero. With a Cat1 climb, and subsequent descent, you are not worried about aero. You need handling ability for the descent and a tri bike simply will never handle as well as a road bike. I would easily have been faster on that descent if I wasn't fighting the handling of a bike made to go fast in a straight line.

I did this on a tri bike and would do it again. It was pretty much up and down.

https://connect.garmin.com/...n/activity/192511781

I've been dying to do Evergreen! My fiance has done it and said it's an absolute blast. Oh well, hope for 2022!

ETA: 1,500+ ft in gain in 7 miles.

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Swissman. Full distance rather than Oly. 12,300'+ of gain on the bike course. Incredibly scenic as you traverse three passes in the Swiss Alps.

For destination races, the other thing to think about (if you're not that interested in squeezing out every last second) is how much of the course will you actually see if you're on a tri bike vs a roadie? I tend to soak in a lot more of the sights on my road bike. On the tri bike, I'm usually focused on tarmac a few yards ahead of me.

I've done the course (sprint) and it definitely is a trip bike course. No roadie needed. Try working in some hills with your tri bike and do hill repeats or find rolling hills to practice with.

I've not done the course, but I second this input based on the map and data and all else said in this thread.

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You all are killing me now. I'm totally confused and thinking maybe I should say to hell with it all and go with MTB.

(Also, the race is a week from tomorrow, so a bit late for me to start practicing hills unfortunately.)

yep, I ride a road bike for Evergreen.. also for the Lookout Mountain tri in CO, same thing, up and down a mountain with lots of twists and no-where to get in the aero bars.

Rode Lausanne in 2006, in addition to constant climb or descend through tight turns, there was also a section of cobbles, one lap done 4 times. Every time I went through the cobbles, there was a non-European on a tri bike crashed out..

Crashing really slows you down, rather negates the speed advantage of the aero tri bike.. so handling is my #1 criterion for deciding what to ride.


ha !
If in doubt, the road bike.. put the race wheels if any on it.

I randomly was driving over the Grimsel several years ago on the day of the Swissman. The weather was awful around 0ºC, raining, misty/foggy.... safe to say the guys on tri bikes were all over the bloody road and guys with aero helmet visors were steaming up. Was glad to be in my car.

Random useless anecdote: I ride in a metro southern flattish area. Always some time at or over 40mph, curves, etc….. all in aero. Even in Raleigh. I’ll hammer 56/11 down.

Squeeze the butt cheeks and practice it.

I have the exact same question, for the exact same course next week, Isabel! I’m thinking to ride my roadie, simply for the fact that I haven’t ridden my TT bike outside since 2019. Great planning on my part, lol. I’m going just to have fun and knock the rust off :). Maybe I’ll see you there!

Hey Bluefishy! If there's some way to DM around here let me know... Would be cool to say hi in Culpeper.

Re bikes, I have decided to go with the roadie, and that's despite having trained and raced on my tri bike 90% of the time since 2019, and my tri bike being a better specimen than the roadie. So if I were you, having been mostly on the road bike, the choice for Culpeper would be a no-brainer. I've also realized that I'm undertrained for the hills and will be aiming to finish rather than (AG) podium. My other races this season will definitely be on the tri.

I wanted to report to all the helpful commenters on this thread that Blufishy and I both went with our road bikes for Culpeper on Saturday and met up in person during the awards ceremony, where we both collected some bits of hardware (which were actually wooden). :)

Good for you! Congrats to you both.

I did a bit of an experiment on this topic.

I did the new Ironman Canada Penticton bike course on my Cervelo Caledonia 105. It isn't super hilly but is regarded as one of the tougher IM courses.

Pirelli 28s for tyres, ZIPP 303s on the back, Boondocks 5d on the front. Running 73 psi. Vision Tech ITU shortie aerobars.

The quick takeaways.

1 - I was slower than on my QR CD 0.1 with disc/tri-spoke (no surprise).

2 - I enjoyed doing the uphills and downhills much more on the Caledonia, although I was slightly slower on one of the major climbs (Yellow Lake).

3 - I really liked having three comfortable hand positions (drops, hoods, aerobars) during the ride. It was more comfortable and as such, less overall fatigue, and less time "zoned out." As well, since I was riding much more upright, my neck and back were much happier.

4 - Unless the road was very, very smooth, the Vision Tech shortie aerobars are painful on the contact point with the bars, in my case it was my elbows that were suffering. This suffering made me get out of the aero bars a lot more than I would have on my QR.

5 - I'm not sure about cause/effect here but I found my very finicky stomach to be much happier as well with the Caledonia. Maybe it was that spending more time upright, aided in my digestion. (liquid nutri. only).

6 - My transition run went much better than when on my TT bikes. My upper body was looser. My legs were less fatigued and "came around" much more quickly. My 40 minute run was faster than usual based on the same level of effort.

No, I won't be using the Caledonia for the Ironman in September, but if I can replicate some of the positive aspects of the Caledonia on my QR (boost the comfort level, change up hand position more frequently) there may be a net benefit when doing the comfort to aero trade off.

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