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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

"They've gone to plaid..." thanks for the awesome reference!!

Speaking for the trackies here going 3-wide at high speed is nothing. Wouldn't even remotely test our skills. Nothing like Keirin or madison where you have to manage speed and position changes. Mass carnage would be unlikely.



Probably something like what we see in Derny racing.

It's funny, I guessed an average speed of 60kph. According to Wikipedia the highest average speed of a madison race is 59.921kph.
? "The fastest known average speed of a madison men's race is 59.921 kilometres per hour (37.233 mph), achieved by the Australian duo of Sam Welsford and Leigh Howard, at the world cup race in Glasgow, United Kingdom, 9 November 2019."
An organised event may go a little faster but not by a lot.

What the heck did I just see?

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Six day racing

Big fun, lots of interesting race formats.

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My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com

Ewan on 191 hr...

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I've been in a 25 person single pace line and a 20 person double line on a 166.67 meter indoor Velodrome, they both feel the same to me.

While doing a double line, when the front two rotate back it's like a triple line for a quarter lap so if you're on the outside sitting 3rd or 4th wheel, you're in the center of the group. There's relatively little effort to ride 25-26 mph.

I didn't have my PM when we did them so I cannot give exact numbers but a recent example of drafting one person for me in the velodrome is 105 watts for 21.3mph and 165 watts for 25 mph. The double lines feel much easier than drafting a single rider.

I've only gone slightly faster than 60kpm for a moment while doing flying 200's. I was riding 88 gear inches at the time which put me at a cadence of 145 rpm. I hope they were riding more gear.

Attending a six day is on my bucket list.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbLxmOcjdf4
Must go! You can also catch a cyclocross or two if you time your visit correctly. Veldrijden in de morgen, baanweilrennen in de avond....

have been to the Gent Six four times...the first time, I was absolutely floored at the speed and skill level. I've seen a few bike races, and I've seen some fast guys, but this was beyond.

Watched my man Iljo Keisse break a chain behind the derny...and nothing happened. The chain snaked down the banking, Iljo signaled to his driver, and no rider fell.

The Gent track is pretty small (it's nickname is "the cup") so if you blink you can miss the sprint. I remember the first two trips sensing the crowd go "ooooo" and I couldn't figure out what they were responding to. One year of all people to meet in the stands was John Vandevelde (he raced there in the 70's) and he could point out things that were so subtle but so huge, once you knew what to look for.

The crowds...the party...we sat next to a couple on our last trip who had been going to the Gent 6 for THIRTY YEARS. It was where they met (this is a place to take your date!) and their kids were there too. So. Much. Fun.


The final night of racing will end with the derny, and the last lap double points sprint will be a four-wide spectacle that never fails to entertain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbLxmOcjdf4

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Anne Barnes
ABBikefit, Ltd
FIST/SICI/FIST DOWN DEEP
X/Y Coordinator
abbikefit@gmail.com

I'm with you. My wife and I planned to visit her family and see 6 Day London last year, but obviously that didn't happen. :/

Detroit is about the closest thing in the US, but it's of course not the same.
A madison on Dick Lane has it's own charm though :D :D

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My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com

Very similar to stayer racing! Not nearly as complicated to keep track of as the Madison, though.

Yeah, closest probably is derny racing. Wiki says they "have" in the past paced riders with derny up to 56mph. Jesus.

Nothing, it'd be about as interesting as a yellow-flag lap at the Daytona 500. The best IP riders in the world are already drafting themselves,


Minuscule chance of *any* carnage, much less mass carnage.


I've heard rumors of 100kph behind scooters on 333m tracks but never witnessed it.

I saw a stayer exhibition race at Herne Hill velodrome. The noise was awesome. Norten bikes I think. The motor riders have extended bars so they can stand to create more draft, the rear of the moto has a roller if the front wheel of the rider touches. The rider bikes have 24 inch wheels and backwards forks so they can get super close.
I'm sure I have a video on an old computer

Haha, what are those like 100mm cranks on the derny bikes?

Also, when Cav has the rainbow stripes on his collar or sleeve cuff, which past world championship is that referring to? A strict interpretation would be Derny, a less strict one would be some other track event, and least strict would be anything on the road.

E

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Slowtwitch approved. Lol.

I also love how utterly expressionless the pilots are... is that a track thing or a British thing or what?

E

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Well of course it's foremost our natural way of being. But in this case then it's also the additional superiority of turning up to a cycling facility on a motorbike specifically to get in the way and annoy the common fold that can't afford a Bentley, only to have the upstart not only follow one but keep nodding at ones self to say he wants to overtake. Was much easier when one could just shoot the peasants and no-one cared. Ah the good old days.

Oh lord! Is there still that big bump on the backside?

Daniel Holloway is one of my Hellyer dudes and he used to race some of the 6-days all the time. I let him throw me once to experience a Madison-like moment. Woo!!!

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Yea, Colby Pearce and Danny used to be on the 6 Day Circuit. One of the few, if only, US teams 'invited' to attend. If you every see Danny again, ask him about the Chicken Suit !

Colby has put on a few Madison Clinics, and we've had some races here. The most we've ever had was about 8 teams, I can't imagine what it takes to be on the track with 16 teams at the pace they are at. Its a fantastic race - really crazy.

There is no Derny Worlds. I'm guessing his Madison wins at Worlds (3 of them) entitle him to sleeve stripes whenever on the track. Particularly with Madison being a 6-day event. I'm assuming whatever it was acceptable attire even by snobby roadie standards.

There’s a local kid here who won an AG or Category USAC Stars and Stripes jersey and he wore it every day for the year, but also on his MTB and TT bikes. Some people took offense, LOL.

E

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I gotta be honest, if I drew a line north/south through Raleigh there's about three dudes and a girl west of here that when they show up to a weeknight world's ride I just have to roll my eyes.

I think most of them roll Cat 1/2 and show up to a mostly non-racer and Cat 3/4/5 ride and act like they're damned UCI world tour riders.

I work for Novo. In non Covid years they let me organize a fund raiser where some employees attend a fondo as a kind of "raise money and get fit" initiative. Each time they give us some pro Team Novo kit for the effort. Those douches can't stand it each time I'd show up wearing it. But, none of them were ever social enough to even bother to ask what the relationship is.

I bring that up in that I wouldn't be surprised if they were some of the offended.

Roadies in the US gotta get more jolly and communal. Given how low we are in road and TT numbers to Europe we've got nothing to stick our noses up about if we care to improve participation!

It's amazing how hard we make it to ride bikes in America.... especially the industry and ourselves.

Pump track and crit course and cross course at every elementary school IMO.

E

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

boys did this question get derailled...
one effect that has been brought up in the hour record is that even a single rider on a track will eventually stir the air to the extent it becomes a bit of a tail wind, so in the above case the wind from all of those riders turning around the track would have a definite wind advantage which would be interesting to model, since the faster they go, the faster the wind and it might top out eventually (when the aerodynamic drag overcomes the tailwind?) but it would be fun to see what would happen.

That "wind" is just the rider's wake. So what you're saying is that on a short enough loop you can draft yourself. that's not a separate phenomenon to drafting.
I think the OPs question is essentially asking what's the maximum benefit you could gain from drafting with the infinite paceline provided by a continuous line of riders on a velodrome providing the model for achieving this.
While that's an interesting hypothetical question, I don't think it's practically feasible. You see I'm certain that if you put a continuous line of riders in close drafting proximity, you will almost instantly have a traffic jam. You need any or all of significant spacing, movement in and out of the line, and non-negligible gaps opening and closing, to provide damping for the response waves that travel backwards through any line of independently controlled traffic. The only way around that is to connect the vehicles together (i.e. a train) or have a central controller capable of synchronising everything without the propagation of signals backwards through the line leading to failure. It seems others here don't agree based on some of the earlier comments but perhaps they are assuming this will be an imperfect paceline with ripples and minor gaps to absorb minor fluctuations?

Track Cycling World Championships Stayers in Vienna 08/28/1987
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58ogT99I9Qw




1993 Track Cycling World Championships - Motor Pace
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdLj2Nvv3k0

So true... but all you are saying is that talent is required... ;)

I really like the idea of this. National teams. Would be quite a spectacle. Get in line and get up to speed, no passing allowed, fastest lap wins.

I don't think that's necessary. I've been in some very fast, long pacelines. For example a motorpaced warmup with 40-50 riders - most of the way around a 333m track (though not fully connected). >30MPH.

Those disruptions are no big deal, and are handled gracefully by even moderately experienced riders. If you sense a slowup in front of you, you just put your wheel a little downtrack or uptrack of the person in front of you, to allow for some overlap. There's a natural "zipper" effect that takes place. Then once it picks back up, you get right back in pursuit formation. And trackies are all pretty acutely aware of the "wave" effect. And innately work to not hammer to close gaps, or suddenly put back pressure on the pedals if there's a slow-up. It's not like a Cat 5 crit.

I don't think it'd be a big deal at all.

Edit: That sort of wheel overlap might send up alarm bells for non-trackies. It's the sort of thing we're correctly taught to avoid in most group ride or road race scenarios. But in track with very defined movements and some degree of trust among experienced riders, it's a common practice, and you do leave enough lateral space for the person in front to make some corrections of their own.

What you're describing is pretty much what I meant by "movement in and out of the line". So yes, I agree that seems plausible. I've never ridden track so no directly applicable experience just know how that sort of setup wouldn't work out if trying to have it perfect.

There's no such thing as perfect! Even world record team pursuit efforts have lots of little corrections and errors.

Of course not but even "trying to have it perfect" in this hypothetical would result in a traffic jam. Never mind, I think we mostly understand each other and further explanation would just get me lost in irrelevant detail!

If we got enough people on the flat Richmond 3mi circuit in Zwift I think we could see how much we could break their algorithm though! Lol.