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To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS?
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I see a lot of posts on a regular basis about bike part optimization for aero, etc.

I learned how to wrench my bike completely about 2 yrs back, but some of these upgrades seem time-consumingly complex for me, like putting in new integrated cockpits on older bikes not designed for it, etc.

For those of you doing more than non-trivial bike part upgrades, are you doing the work yourself, or are you just telling the LBS to do it?

And if you are doing significant work yourself, are you affiliated (or work in ) a bike shop, or did you just buy all the tools and learn to do all the work on your own?

I'm just surprised at how willing people are to jump into what seem like fairly time consuming and potentially costly bike upgrades here, yet I hear nary a peep how about how difficult and time consuming such projects would be for them. I'm not totall incompetent as a bike wrench, yet I'm putting off changing my road bike cables (external routing, easy!) because I don't even want to be bothered!
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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My buddy that got me into the sport and I always do our wrenching together. But it definitely takes multiple weeks due to scheduling conflicts, ordering parts, drinking too many beers, and general incompetence.

That’s why I have two bikes.

Strava
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I built up my latest bike from a frameset. I also rebuild a set of road wheels I destroyed on the road. I'm not affliated with a bike shop, but I am a mechanical engineer. Bike maintenance is fun for me. It's something I enjoy doing.

A few projects took longer than anticipated, and I've definitely stripped a few threads, but after you do something once, it becomes much easier and faster the second time. Start wrenching on an old bike first if you're worried about breaking something.

Also, I'll pay the LBS to do work if the price is right. For example, I had a LBS cut down and thread 6 extra spokes (too long) and replace a broken one in a wheel for $30.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
I see a lot of posts on a regular basis about bike part optimization for aero, etc.

I learned how to wrench my bike completely about 2 yrs back, but some of these upgrades seem time-consumingly complex for me, like putting in new integrated cockpits on older bikes not designed for it, etc.

For those of you doing more than non-trivial bike part upgrades, are you doing the work yourself, or are you just telling the LBS to do it?

And if you are doing significant work yourself, are you affiliated (or work in ) a bike shop, or did you just buy all the tools and learn to do all the work on your own?

I'm just surprised at how willing people are to jump into what seem like fairly time consuming and potentially costly bike upgrades here, yet I hear nary a peep how about how difficult and time consuming such projects would be for them. I'm not totall incompetent as a bike wrench, yet I'm putting off changing my road bike cables (external routing, easy!) because I don't even want to be bothered!

I have taken both my bikes from built to bare frame and back for a few reasons. I have occasionally brought them to a bike shop after the fact for tuning or checkups. I have no affiliation or experience working in a bike shop. I just was looking for a road bike, found a cheap frame, decided building a bike frame up would probably teach me most of what I need to know about working on bikes and decided to try.

It's very time consuming, and maddening, but I've learned a lot. I've purchased a few tools that I thought might end up using only once, and yet it's never been only once. The biggest thing is just not planning on being able to finish it immediately. Especially something larger, you might end up needing a tool you didn't anticipate, or need some additional spacer or whatever. I replaced the cockpit on my tri bike over the summer when I was only riding my road bike for example, and replaced the groupset on my road bike over the winter when I was mainly riding my tri bike on the trainer.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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As a younger guy in the sport, doing my own mech work and building my bikes up is the only way i can afford nice rigs and solid components. I have learned it all myself over the past 3-4 years. Anything I need specialty things for (BB things or very very specific things) I will pay a shop to do, but I have also made a lot of friends in the bike shops who do stuff for me for free.

Also I am a mechanical engineer but that really doesn't mean much; I can tell you how an engine works and the thermodynamic cycles and compression ratios for a multistage engine, but I have no idea how to do things outside the basic things on my car.

I will admit that it is a time consuming hobby, but if you have time (like during right now) it will pay dividends on learning how to do stuff yourself. I can just order shit I see online and build stuff up if I want to without worrying about wasting time and money scheduling something at the bike shop. I am also very picky on my bikes and knowing how to adjust and do basically everything on the bike saves me the obsessiveness of wanting something prefect. If something is messed up, its on me. Also helps for anything that happens, say last minute, as I can tweak things if a bike shop or a mechanic is not available.

I will admit, I think I would have saved money in the long term if I just gave everything to a shop. I see a nice part, its easy to just buy it and say "ya I save $50 bucks installing this thing" and doing it again and again, and ultimately spending way more than I would have otherwise. However, I ride a top end tri and road rig, and am in the middle of upgrading my road to Di2. I have saved many thousands on the bikes I ride and I might actually be net-net zero if I sell both my rigs, but yeah... I would rather ride top end super bike rigs than a 105 rim equipped bike for the same price all things considered. At least I know how to work on these things, which that knowledge will last a lifetime.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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2/4 replies are from mechanical engineers so far!
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I do almost all work on my bikes and I have never worked in a bike shop. I used to give my bikes to the lbs whenever I needed things adjusted or parts changed out. But I got tired of scheduling time around my training when I could be without a bike and the bike coming back to me not setup exactly how I wanted it (I’m OCD). Plus, what happens when you discover something is wrong right before a big race or ride? I want to be able to fix it myself without relying on anyone else.

I watched a bunch of YouTube videos to learn basic things and spent the weekends learning things the hard ways. Sometimes I need the shop to bail me out and they have always been more than willing to help (they are better mechanics than me since that’s what they do all day long).

My wife just got a hydraulic disc brake bike and I have one on the way. I have a little experience with hydraulics (only bleeding brakes on cars) and no experience with discs. I’ll struggle at first figuring things out but give me a couple of weekends and I’ll be able to do it with my eyes closed as well as help a few friends/neighbors out when they need help.

Edit: I’m a mechanical engineer by degree. I used to spend my weekends autocrossing (cars racing in a parking lot) and wrenching on my car.

Another edit: I’m constantly swapping certain parts on my bike as I’m on this continuous search of perfection. It’s a lot easier to do it yourself than always taking it the lbs to do.

blog
Last edited by: stevej: Dec 30, 20 11:52
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Always done all my own stuff and mods, ever since I was a young teen when i used to strip my first proper MTB (elastomer fork, so pretty easy at the time).

I strongly believe if you take cycling anyway seriously you should learn to do your own maintenance. Some things are worth using a shop for, say wheel building, as you get a lot back for the cost, but I'd never pay them for a bottom bracket replacement or chain etc that seems to be the bulk of their work.

Tools you acquire along the way. You don't need a lot. Bikes really aren't complicated.

I think a lot of it comes down to confidence. It can take a leap of faith to hammer out a press fit BB, especially when you realise how hard you have to hit sometimes and the bearing goes flying over to the other side of the room.

YouTube pretty much tells you everything you need to know these days.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
2/4 replies are from mechanical engineers so far!

Add two more, myself and the poster just before me.

I doodled on turbo 4 bangers for a while. 500hp VW Jetta. Built and sold a cylinder head, installed tons of stuff like meth injection.

Compared to that, bikes are silly simple even at the most complex level of maintenance.

I built my DA from a frame I was gifted as broken carbon. Fixed that. Then created my own stem mount plate to replace the moronic Felt original piece.

Around here, most LBS want to do basic new bike assembly and basic bike maintenance. You would lose hours of TT bike riding per year waiting on shops to do more finicky work.

Not a jab at them, but no need for such specialized skills on staff always.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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Completely remove the brake pads from the calipers before bleeding the brakes.

Any oil on the pads will contaminate them and then they will need to be replaced.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
I see a lot of posts on a regular basis about bike part optimization for aero, etc.

I learned how to wrench my bike completely about 2 yrs back, but some of these upgrades seem time-consumingly complex for me, like putting in new integrated cockpits on older bikes not designed for it, etc.

For those of you doing more than non-trivial bike part upgrades, are you doing the work yourself, or are you just telling the LBS to do it?

And if you are doing significant work yourself, are you affiliated (or work in ) a bike shop, or did you just buy all the tools and learn to do all the work on your own?

I'm just surprised at how willing people are to jump into what seem like fairly time consuming and potentially costly bike upgrades here, yet I hear nary a peep how about how difficult and time consuming such projects would be for them. I'm not totall incompetent as a bike wrench, yet I'm putting off changing my road bike cables (external routing, easy!) because I don't even want to be bothered!

What’s a “non-trivial” upgrade? To me, that involves some degree of fabrication of one-off custom components, or bespoke wheelbuilding. Anything else is relatively straightforward.no I’m not an engineer. I did work in a shop for a time, but was mostly just assembling new bikes. Pretty easy stuff that I already knew how to do.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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LBS; I'm more of a software guy, and 'revert changes' in code is way cheaper than 'buy it again' for bike parts when I screw up.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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The unfortunate reality is that not many shops are keen on putting in the effort for a really slick TT build.
If you have a store with a really good mechanic it's a different story, but a lot of the time doing it yourself is the only way to go beyond the basic level of 'the the parts are on and it works'
Of course, easy for me to say - I learned wrenching in a store (from a really good mechanic) while at University
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Do it all myself. Mostly just as a hobby. I enjoy working with nice tools. (software engineer)

Most things I think I do pretty well. Though I still haven't mastered the perfect bar tape job. Don't know why that one troubles me so much.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I do most of mine, mostly because the nearest LBS is over 40 minutes away. I think the newer “super bikes” may be less user friendly, but my 2012 Cervelo P2 is fairly straightforward to work on.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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All done by a shop for me. I don’t have the time, and very little inclination to learn. I like to workout, ride etc. But, at least at this point in my life, I don’t enjoy wrenching or maintenance that goes along with the exercise habit.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I do all my bike work and a lot of work for friends.

I'm not affiliated with a bike shop and I buy my own tools. For the last few years I have a budget of $100 a year for new tools.

This is a small project I'm doing for a friend



Edit: I was a heavy machine mechanic for several years now I'm a Instrumentation tech, troubleshooter and mechanic for an automotive component supplier.
Last edited by: jaretj: Dec 30, 20 13:55
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I'm a failed engineer (withdrew a quarter and switched during junior year) if that counts.

I've worked on all my bikes TT, road, gravel, MTB and CX. I have not been to a mechanic in years.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
lightheir wrote:
I see a lot of posts on a regular basis about bike part optimization for aero, etc.

I learned how to wrench my bike completely about 2 yrs back, but some of these upgrades seem time-consumingly complex for me, like putting in new integrated cockpits on older bikes not designed for it, etc.

For those of you doing more than non-trivial bike part upgrades, are you doing the work yourself, or are you just telling the LBS to do it?

And if you are doing significant work yourself, are you affiliated (or work in ) a bike shop, or did you just buy all the tools and learn to do all the work on your own?

I'm just surprised at how willing people are to jump into what seem like fairly time consuming and potentially costly bike upgrades here, yet I hear nary a peep how about how difficult and time consuming such projects would be for them. I'm not totall incompetent as a bike wrench, yet I'm putting off changing my road bike cables (external routing, easy!) because I don't even want to be bothered!


What’s a “non-trivial” upgrade? To me, that involves some degree of fabrication of one-off custom components, or bespoke wheelbuilding. Anything else is relatively straightforward.no I’m not an engineer. I did work in a shop for a time, but was mostly just assembling new bikes. Pretty easy stuff that I already knew how to do.

Honestly, it's not even the sheer complexity of the installations.

With the right parts and right tools, nearly anybody can get anything to fit 'well-enough' on a bike, even with just youtube videos through trial and error.

It's the hassle of getting and finding all the right parts.

Can't tell you how many times I've had to research and buy specific bolts to replace rusted or worn ones.

I just had to replace a Cervelo 2008 P2c seatpost - doesn't matter how smart you are, do you know if the 2012+ Cervelo seatposts fit on a P2c from 2008? Sure, you can order it and try it, but add all that time messing with it if it doesn't fit. Do you know if it comes with the actual seat rail holder assembly? Do you know if it you need to replace the custom seatpost hold clamp if you do get lucky and the new seatpost fits since they've got a new clamp design now?

A lot of this stuff is a cakewalk for a well-equipped LBS to fix - they just try out all the reasonable looking parts until one works. That literally happened with my seatpost - the LBS brought out ALL of their Cervelo seatposts, and we found that the 2012+ one worked. Then we tried out the clamps - we ended up just keeping my old one. Wasn't hard for an LBS with supplies. But for a solo hobbyist without LBS support, it can be super time consuming and annoying.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I mostly do my own work. I’ve built six over the past 10 years. First one was a single speed which was a good easy first attempt. Since that one I’ve done a Cervelo P2C, Speed Concept, Cervelo S3, Yeti Arc-X, and Open UP. One two of those bikes I’ve re built them back up after doing a full tear down back to the frame. On the P2C I also did the tririg top tube mod to improve cable management.

I just read lots of article and forum posts and watch lots of YouTube videos. I enjoying doing building the bikes and working on them as it helps me better understand the bike. Occasionally I’ll bring stuff to the shop if I can’t get something quite right or if it involves a tool that I don’t want to buy as I think I might only use it once or twice. That said, single and childless are no longer terms that describe me so my free time is less than it used to be and finding time to educate myself on how to fix an issue or make a change as well as carrying it out is hard. So I’ve been taking more things to the shop lately

Matt
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
Completely remove the brake pads from the calipers before bleeding the brakes.

Any oil on the pads will contaminate them and then they will need to be replaced.

I found that out the expensive way...
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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To be honest, i wouldnt trust my bike if i didnt personally go through the whole thing and rebuild and secure every piece

My handlebars came loose a week after i had a bike serviced last year. Luckily it was on the trainer. Terrifying to say the least. I learned my lesson...

Strava
Last edited by: rsjrv99: Dec 30, 20 14:11
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I spent 4 years at a bike shop, 2 of those while earning my A&P license, and then did an entire career (now retired) as an aircraft mechanic specializing in jet engine overhaul. I do all my own bike wrenching. I've had to consult youtube a few times, and they've never let me down. I've been at it for nearly 50 years, and I don't know if bike design has improved or gone to shit.

Athlinks / Strava
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
lightheir wrote:
I see a lot of posts on a regular basis about bike part optimization for aero, etc.

I learned how to wrench my bike completely about 2 yrs back, but some of these upgrades seem time-consumingly complex for me, like putting in new integrated cockpits on older bikes not designed for it, etc.

For those of you doing more than non-trivial bike part upgrades, are you doing the work yourself, or are you just telling the LBS to do it?

And if you are doing significant work yourself, are you affiliated (or work in ) a bike shop, or did you just buy all the tools and learn to do all the work on your own?

I'm just surprised at how willing people are to jump into what seem like fairly time consuming and potentially costly bike upgrades here, yet I hear nary a peep how about how difficult and time consuming such projects would be for them. I'm not totall incompetent as a bike wrench, yet I'm putting off changing my road bike cables (external routing, easy!) because I don't even want to be bothered!


What’s a “non-trivial” upgrade? To me, that involves some degree of fabrication of one-off custom components, or bespoke wheelbuilding. Anything else is relatively straightforward.no I’m not an engineer. I did work in a shop for a time, but was mostly just assembling new bikes. Pretty easy stuff that I already knew how to do.

Honestly, it's not even the sheer complexity of the installations.

With the right parts and right tools, nearly anybody can get anything to fit 'well-enough' on a bike, even with just youtube videos through trial and error.

It's the hassle of getting and finding all the right parts.

Can't tell you how many times I've had to research and buy specific bolts to replace rusted or worn ones.

I just had to replace a Cervelo 2008 P2c seatpost - doesn't matter how smart you are, do you know if the 2012+ Cervelo seatposts fit on a P2c from 2008? Sure, you can order it and try it, but add all that time messing with it if it doesn't fit. Do you know if it comes with the actual seat rail holder assembly? Do you know if it you need to replace the custom seatpost hold clamp if you do get lucky and the new seatpost fits since they've got a new clamp design now?

A lot of this stuff is a cakewalk for a well-equipped LBS to fix - they just try out all the reasonable looking parts until one works. That literally happened with my seatpost - the LBS brought out ALL of their Cervelo seatposts, and we found that the 2012+ one worked. Then we tried out the clamps - we ended up just keeping my old one. Wasn't hard for an LBS with supplies. But for a solo hobbyist without LBS support, it can be super time consuming and annoying.

Thats an issue of parts compatibility, which isn’t really what I thought you were talking about (and a phone call to the LBS, who should in turn contact the distributor, should easily clear that up). That’s not really a wrenching issue, it’s a supply chain issue.

Sometimes you run into the issue of the part you need, like a top cap for a 1” integrated headset, far more rare than you’d think, just cannot be found. So then you get into actually mixing and matching parts to make things work. But I’d do that, not my lbs.

I can’t recall the last thing that an lbs did for me. Seriously. It’s always more time efficient to do it myself. Other reason I do everything, because I want to know if something goes wrong what the cause was.

It’s the same thing as figuring out what rd hanger works on a specific frame. Quickest and easiest route is to call or email someone who you know can give you the answer.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I do my own wrenching and never worked in a lbs nor have I had any training. I have definitely learned what sweat can do to components as I just got finished drilling out some rusted bolts.

Most annoying thing is having to wait for specific parts as it is amazing how little the lbs carries. Seems like most of the Lbs’s around me rely on their distributors for stock and at that point I can just order off the web.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Ive done all my own wrenching for as long as I can remember (.....~30 years).
I am not an engineer nor a mechanic, I'm an IT Systems Analyst.
I've built up a decent collection of bike tools over the years, and I just started a project to build myself a custom tool kit using a Nanuk 935 case and Kaizen foam inserts...

Compared to having my LBS do work:

1. If I do it myself, I know its done right, everything is tight, torqued right, etc. And if I can't get it right, -then- I take it to LBS.
2. Saves a lot of time of not having to drive to LBS, leave bike for a week, drive back to pick it up.
3. Saves a lot of money. I did have to have the brake cables re-done on a Speed Concept recently - normally something I could handle, but for some reason I just could not get them to work smoothly, so I just said f*ck it and took it in. It cost me about $150.....(and a week)... :(

One last thing I should note - I actually enjoy working on my own bikes, so that makes a big difference too.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
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SBRcanuck wrote:
Ive done all my own wrenching for as long as I can remember (.....~30 years).
I am not an engineer nor a mechanic, I'm an IT Systems Analyst.
I've built up a decent collection of bike tools over the years, and I just started a project to build myself a custom tool kit using a Nanuk 935 case and Kaizen foam inserts...

Compared to having my LBS do work:

1. If I do it myself, I know its done right, everything is tight, torqued right, etc. And if I can't get it right, -then- I take it to LBS.


I hate to admit it, but I'm like the WORST bike mechanic. Even on stuff I've done several times before!

I've messed up so many easy repairs and installs in ways that one would only dream of and STILL not come up with the amount of stupid required to do it....

And yes, I'm riding 2 bikes that I completely broke down completely and rebuilt back up and have been essentially self-servicing the whole time. There were definitely some dangerous moments yikes!
Last edited by: lightheir: Dec 30, 20 15:20
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
SBRcanuck wrote:
Ive done all my own wrenching for as long as I can remember (.....~30 years).
I am not an engineer nor a mechanic, I'm an IT Systems Analyst.
I've built up a decent collection of bike tools over the years, and I just started a project to build myself a custom tool kit using a Nanuk 935 case and Kaizen foam inserts...

Compared to having my LBS do work:

1. If I do it myself, I know its done right, everything is tight, torqued right, etc. And if I can't get it right, -then- I take it to LBS.


I hate to admit it, but I'm like the WORST bike mechanic. Even on stuff I've done several times before!

I've messed up so many easy repairs and installs in ways that one would only dream of and STILL not come up with the amount of stupid required to do it....

And yes, I'm riding 2 bikes that I completely broke down completely and rebuilt back up and have been essentially self-servicing the whole time. There were definitely some dangerous moments yikes!

If it makes you feel any better, I know several people that have 6k+ bikes that -literally- do not know how to adjust the seat height and even taking a wheel off/on is a major undertaking for them........I'm serious. So maybe you aren't doing so bad! :)
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not even joking -

One of the biggest reasons that I'm not buying a $7-12k superbike right now (Yeah, I'm the chump that posted about my $$ windfall 2 days ago!) is that I have no interest in learning to wrench all the super-awesome-customized aero parts that go along with it.

So not surprised in the slightest that folks buying these bikes are totally clueless for wrenching. I suspect that if something went wrong with a bike in that range for me, I'd not trust my lousy janky Star-wars duct-tape repairs and skills, but take it in for the pros to look at. Even for simple stuff.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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My older bikes require way more time to source the appropriate parts than to actually do the job...using generic tools.

My modern bikes require more time (and specialty tools) to actually do the job right.

Replacing shift cables versus wiring/finding the error in DI2 comes to mind. Or adjusting cable brakes versus Hydro.

In the end, I think it comes down to the question: "Do I enjoy working on my bike?".

Just because you know how to do it, shouldn't make it an obligation to do so.

I do my work mostly for my own safety and peace of mind, because the mechanics in my area are either ridiculous expensive or do a shoddy job.
.
Last edited by: windschatten: Dec 30, 20 16:10
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I do all my own work now, because;

- the LBS in my area is run by a set of old school guys who believe they know better. Basically patronising wankers who want to tell me what does and doesn't matter.

- my LBS refuses to book in an accurate time slot to do the job. I'm expected to drop it off and have it sit there unavailable to me until they can do the work. Fuck off, I'd rather the bike stayed in my possession.

- my LBS wouldn't do as good a job as I have done with my carefully optimised mods on my P3C. In fact, they probably wouldn't have been willing to do some of it (very careful routing of cables through Tririg Sigma stem to Tririg Omega brake, drilling the frame, top tube cable mod, custom cut extensions fitted in reverse, angled pads etc)

- in the long run (10+ years now) it has probably been cheaper to buy the tools

- I'm an engineer (broadcast, not mechanical) and like to understand things fully

- I like doing it

- My bikes are my babies

I've basically got all the tools I'll ever need to maintain my bikes forever, with the exception of a headset bearing press... only because I've never needed one. But I've got everything else.. I even have a steerer tube cutting guide which I've used 3 times I think.

As above my background is engineering, but electronic (broadcast) not mechanical. I just have an enquiring mind and have been content to learn as I go, mainly picking things up from the internet.

My P3C is awesome.

Cheers, Rich.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I have been wrenching my own stuff for about 40 years (holy crap, where did the time go?!). I use the shop when I don't have time or tools, I have a lot of stuff but there is so much proprietary equipment around that it makes sense for the shop to do a particular job.

That said, wrenching on my own stuff while time consuming can also be relaxing. I love, love, love redoing cables and bar tape in late winter. Put some music on and shut the brain off for a couple hours, granted I had to do a lot them to be proficient but the reward of a smoothly shifting and braking bike is so worth it.

Also a mechanical engineer, but I was a mechanic way before I was an engineer.

Rich
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
2/4 replies are from mechanical engineers so far!

Not an engineer, but have done all my own wrenching since I was a poor grad student. Yes, wrenching can have moments of frustration. but in the big scheme of things, it’s very satisfying to work through problems and develop competency. It’s actually become cathartic for me to work on my bike.

...what kills me is hearing some of my training buddies spending nearly a grand at a bike shop for installing/replacing ~$400 in parts. But then again, to each their own.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [beston] [ In reply to ]
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Outside of very minor maintenance my lbs does all my work for a few reasons
1. I can't afford to break my bike
2. I don't want to buy a million tools
3. I break stuff
4. They are cheap and do good work
5. They are .5 miles from my house
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
lightheir wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
lightheir wrote:
I see a lot of posts on a regular basis about bike part optimization for aero, etc.

I learned how to wrench my bike completely about 2 yrs back, but some of these upgrades seem time-consumingly complex for me, like putting in new integrated cockpits on older bikes not designed for it, etc.

For those of you doing more than non-trivial bike part upgrades, are you doing the work yourself, or are you just telling the LBS to do it?

And if you are doing significant work yourself, are you affiliated (or work in ) a bike shop, or did you just buy all the tools and learn to do all the work on your own?

I'm just surprised at how willing people are to jump into what seem like fairly time consuming and potentially costly bike upgrades here, yet I hear nary a peep how about how difficult and time consuming such projects would be for them. I'm not totall incompetent as a bike wrench, yet I'm putting off changing my road bike cables (external routing, easy!) because I don't even want to be bothered!


What’s a “non-trivial” upgrade? To me, that involves some degree of fabrication of one-off custom components, or bespoke wheelbuilding. Anything else is relatively straightforward.no I’m not an engineer. I did work in a shop for a time, but was mostly just assembling new bikes. Pretty easy stuff that I already knew how to do.


Honestly, it's not even the sheer complexity of the installations.

With the right parts and right tools, nearly anybody can get anything to fit 'well-enough' on a bike, even with just youtube videos through trial and error.

It's the hassle of getting and finding all the right parts.

Can't tell you how many times I've had to research and buy specific bolts to replace rusted or worn ones.

I just had to replace a Cervelo 2008 P2c seatpost - doesn't matter how smart you are, do you know if the 2012+ Cervelo seatposts fit on a P2c from 2008? Sure, you can order it and try it, but add all that time messing with it if it doesn't fit. Do you know if it comes with the actual seat rail holder assembly? Do you know if it you need to replace the custom seatpost hold clamp if you do get lucky and the new seatpost fits since they've got a new clamp design now?

A lot of this stuff is a cakewalk for a well-equipped LBS to fix - they just try out all the reasonable looking parts until one works. That literally happened with my seatpost - the LBS brought out ALL of their Cervelo seatposts, and we found that the 2012+ one worked. Then we tried out the clamps - we ended up just keeping my old one. Wasn't hard for an LBS with supplies. But for a solo hobbyist without LBS support, it can be super time consuming and annoying.


Thats an issue of parts compatibility, which isn’t really what I thought you were talking about (and a phone call to the LBS, who should in turn contact the distributor, should easily clear that up). That’s not really a wrenching issue, it’s a supply chain issue.

Sometimes you run into the issue of the part you need, like a top cap for a 1” integrated headset, far more rare than you’d think, just cannot be found. So then you get into actually mixing and matching parts to make things work. But I’d do that, not my lbs.

I can’t recall the last thing that an lbs did for me. Seriously. It’s always more time efficient to do it myself. Other reason I do everything, because I want to know if something goes wrong what the cause was.

It’s the same thing as figuring out what rd hanger works on a specific frame. Quickest and easiest route is to call or email someone who you know can give you the answer.

To piggyback on this, if you have a question on say the seatpost of a P3, you can email/contact Cervelo or whoever the manufacturer is and they can tell you the answer. They may also have some pieces lying around somewhere and send it to you for cheap/free. I have had a few issues with various things and a quick email to the company themselves has resulted in a quick answer and sometimes a replacement part for free (or a part number which can be found on ebay etc.). I have had very good interactions with Cervelo and Trek personally, but unless the company is crap or they are out of business, they should have all the information available. TBH I get the information much faster than a bike shop does too. They seem to ask the distributor, who in turn does who knows what (and has proved to be an "I don't know" or wrong information). I like to get information from the horses mouth as well; trust but verify
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
I'm not even joking -

One of the biggest reasons that I'm not buying a $7-12k superbike right now (Yeah, I'm the chump that posted about my $$ windfall 2 days ago!) is that I have no interest in learning to wrench all the super-awesome-customized aero parts that go along with it.

So not surprised in the slightest that folks buying these bikes are totally clueless for wrenching. I suspect that if something went wrong with a bike in that range for me, I'd not trust my lousy janky Star-wars duct-tape repairs and skills, but take it in for the pros to look at. Even for simple stuff.

TBH depending on what super bike you buy, the $7-12k might actually make your life much easier (or ultimately the mechanics life easier in this case). I have worked on a Trek Speed Concept and my Cervelo P5x and I can tell you the P5x is stupidly well thought out in terms of maintenance and breaking the bike down to transport. I kind of laugh because most people buying the Px series bikes will likely throw it to their bike shop, who will in turn rejoice due to how insanely easy this thing is to work on. Every time I take this thing apart I find something new that was designed specifically with maintenance in mind. For example, headset bearing on integrated cockpits typically go through the headset bearing itself. If its a disc brake bike, that means a headset replacement requires you to disconnect the brake lines... which will need to be flossed through whatever you put them in before. I have a Look 795 RS Disc that has this issue, and I can only assume most super bikes have this exact same issue. The Px series bikes don't as they actually bypass the headset bearing entirely, so you can just pop the headset bearing out and never touch the lines. Thats just one of the few "treats" I found wrenching on this baby which is one of the ways I enable myself...

Depending on the bike and how well its designed, I can honestly say the super bikes can actually save you a ton of time. It might require you to do research or know what you are looking for though, kind of a catch 22 as you need to know what is hard to realize the well designed solutions...
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Not an engineer but I have 3 technical degrees.

Do all my own stuff unless I don't have a tool or can't make the tool. In the past 5 years I've had my LBS remove an ISIS BB (cheaper than buying the tool), cut a carbon steerer (didn't want to buy a new blade and my steerer cutting fixture got stolen) and chase a titanium bottom bracket (threads were a mess, they had to dig up the tool and then wait for the senior mechanic with 30 years experience to do it). I've built up maybe 7 bikes in that time. I do call in at Christmas or St Patrick's day with a 12 pack and a cake to remind them who I am and keep them on the sweet side.

They've also given me small parts for free that I can't locate - such as straddle cable holders and tokens for Rockshox forks.

I've learned everything from Zinn and post on bikeforums.net.

My biggest regret is never doing a course on shop skills. Would love to be able to machine up some parts and have a good grasp of fasteners and threads. Have figured out quite a bit now but wasted a lot of time.

The one thing I can do very well is build wheels that are as good as any pro can build - I just do it a lot slower.

Youtube is amazing - learned a ton about hydraulic brakes and servicing suspensions for MTB. That even got me into doing stuff on my car that I would have never imagined me doing - saved a lot on changing rotors and brake fluid and cleaning out various sensors every time my check engine light goes on.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [Aid.dre.an] [ In reply to ]
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I do all my own bike work, and car/motorcycle maintenance. Like others that posted, I get some satisfaction and peace of mind knowing that I’ve done it right. I don’t think most mechanics would put in the care that I spend on my rides. Some of this comes from disappointing experiences reviewing ”professional” work on a few occasions when I may have been short on time or tools, but frankly a shop mechanic would likely always feel too rushed to put as much care as I would. I am an aerospace engineer, but I would give more credit to having to wrench on my car as a teen to keep it running.

Some tasks may seem intimidating at first (worst may be bottom bracket bearings and related tools), but it feels good to know that if I ever have to do them again i’ve “been there,” and can take care of it fairly quickly, at home, before a training ride, and don’t ever have to work around a shop’s schedule. I tend to add, adjust, or remove a lot of parts experimenting with fit/aero (maybe not so much recently, but when I sort out a new build) and can’t imagine doing it as freely if I had to take it to a shop for every change or adjustment.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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With YouTube, going to the LBS is the last resort.

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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knighty76 wrote:
my LBS refuses to book in an accurate time slot to do the job. I'm expected to drop it off and have it sit there unavailable to me until they can do the work.
.

If anyone involved in bike shops is reading, this is a primary reason I do not use shops.

I do my own car work but at least most vehicle repair shops can tell you “drop it off Tuesday, pick it up close of business Wedneaday”.

Every lbs has always been “shoulder shrug, we’ll call”.

I gave up one month after owning my first adult bike to do my own stuff.

It would be nice to once in a while pay for some stuff like a recabling and such. But that whole lazy inaccurate booking thing makes me just DIY.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
knighty76 wrote:
my LBS refuses to book in an accurate time slot to do the job. I'm expected to drop it off and have it sit there unavailable to me until they can do the work.
.

If anyone involved in bike shops is reading, this is a primary reason I do not use shops.

I do my own car work but at least most vehicle repair shops can tell you “drop it off Tuesday, pick it up close of business Wedneaday”.

Every lbs has always been “shoulder shrug, we’ll call”.

I gave up one month after owning my first adult bike to do my own stuff.

It would be nice to once in a while pay for some stuff like a recabling and such. But that whole lazy inaccurate booking thing makes me just DIY.

This is probably one of my biggest gripes. If the bike needs to sit somewhere waiting for attention, it could just as easily sit at my house or under my backside.. with a little planning on their part. The concept of customer service is practically non-existent in some LBSs, it almost feels like you are asking them to do you a favour, and you are lucky they are gracing you with their wisdom and magic. No thanks, these are bikes not space rockets and I'll figure it out myself.

They have also misdiagnosed problems more than once, which I've subsequently sorted out myself. The latest being a noise from the back wheel "just ride it lad, you'll not notice in a headwind, it'll just be the spokes rubbing". It was a failed bond between the carbon fairing and the rim. Sigh.

Cheers, Rich.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [duganator99] [ In reply to ]
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duganator99 wrote:
Outside of very minor maintenance my lbs does all my work for a few reasons
1. I can't afford to break my bike
2. I don't want to buy a million tools
3. I break stuff
4. They are cheap and do good work
5. They are .5 miles from my house


I think the biggest misperceptions about working on a bike is that it requires a lot of tools and that they are expensive.

In reality, the number of tools is fairly small and very cheap.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [carlosflanders] [ In reply to ]
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"Amazon.com : BIKEHAND Bike Bicycle Compatible with Shimano Bottom Bracket Removal Remover Tool : Bike Hand Tools : Sports & Outdoors" https://www.amazon.com/...;smid=A1C9T7ACO5T769
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Proud to say that in 53 years of cycling, the only time any of my bikes have ever been in a shop's workstand is when I worked at the shop and was upgrading/repairing on my lunch break. And the only time someone other than myself has done any work on my bikes was when I was 7, and got my first flat. My dad bought a patch kit, fixed the flat while I watched, and then told me "Now you know how to do it yourself" and gave me the patch kit in case I ever needed it again...

"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
knighty76 wrote:
my LBS refuses to book in an accurate time slot to do the job. I'm expected to drop it off and have it sit there unavailable to me until they can do the work.
.


If anyone involved in bike shops is reading, this is a primary reason I do not use shops.

I do my own car work but at least most vehicle repair shops can tell you “drop it off Tuesday, pick it up close of business Wedneaday”.

Every lbs has always been “shoulder shrug, we’ll call”.

I gave up one month after owning my first adult bike to do my own stuff.

It would be nice to once in a while pay for some stuff like a recabling and such. But that whole lazy inaccurate booking thing makes me just DIY.

Fortunately, none of the various shops I worked at in my retail days were like that. We always told the customer when they dropped off the bike what day and time (usually next day) that it would be ready, and would call if it got done earlier. The only times we didn't have a definite pickup time was when we knew up front that we had to special order a part, and the only time it wouldn't be ready on schedule was if there was another issue discovered during the repair that needed additional time and/or special order parts. The last shop I was at (as service manager) had a reputation for being able to fix the problems that the other local shops couldn't...

"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Chalk me up as another Mechanical Engineer. I half agree with one of the earlier posts that a lot of a mechanical engineering degree (90% of which hard maths for those who aren't mechanical or electrical / electronic engineers, nowt practical) is irrelevant e.g. there's not much thermodynamics in bike spannering (though there is plenty of fluid mechanics in aero !). But it can help with a fundamental understanding of what is happening (or not) as far as structural stuff to know what is actually important or not.
It probably also lends itself towards a rational logical approach faults finding.

I've never worked in a bike shop.
But compared to building / rebuilding say gearboxes or engines (which I did when younger on a rally car) a push bike is ever so simple. I always repaired my own car until I was about 35 or 40 (since I 1st got one one when 17, because that was the only way I could afford to run one when I was 1st working and when I was a student). I do now use a car garage for repairs for the car as I've moved area and don't have the access to more specialist equipment these days, and usually can't be without a car for 4 or 5 days when something isn't right, or a bolt is seized and needs drilling out, or the car parts bought don't actually fit.

The push bikes... I do about 95-98% myself.
Why?

- parts are 2/3 or 3/4 the price from Wiggles / CRC etc than a LBS (and actually we haven't the had a real LBS where I live for about 25years).

- its such a fheckabout to get a bike to a repair shop. They open after I start work. Closed when I've finished work. Book it in for next week or the week after.
Repeat the faff to collect it again at an indeterminate point in the future.

Great example- I decided to try a shorter crank on the bike about 3 weeks ago. Ultegra. Wiggle ÂŁ180 vs a RRP of ÂŁ260. Collected from the grocery store 2 days later after a school run. Fitted, derailleur readjusted and pedals swapped etc in an hour inc cups of tea and faffing. Now how would that have panned out if I decided I didn't like the shorter crank ? A 3rd + 4th trip to the bike shop to get them to refit the original. Whereas I could swap everything back again in 20 or 30 mins without having to get the car off the drive again.

- I actually don't trust the quality of work in some places - a view reinforced after I saw a buddie's disc brake caliper lose 1 bolt and have the 2nd loose on the 1st ride out (on a brand new out the shop Santa Cruz at circa $8k - FFS) and then found the other caliper ready to fall off when we checked that. I've also know someone's handlebars slip / rotate down in the stem on the 1st ride. Both incidents (totally different shops) could have seriously injured or even killed the riders. If my bike falls apart after I put it together, its my own fault and nobody else's. But it doesn't because I know what I'm doing !

- In a race, if it goes wrong I will have a good idea how it is assembled and so have a better chance of fixing it. As a 'completer' imagine having dropped $2-3k to do an IM (entry, hotels, travel, etc) and a shedload of hard training just to DNF because something went a bit wrong with a brake or shifter cable or jockey wheel etc
Imagine that if you've KQ for the 1st time and that happens at Hawi. (Some things can't be fixed roadside. But much can.

- I have a mountain biking background. MTBs DO go wrong, and bits get broken at the most inconvenient place. Rip off a rear mech 31 miles from anywhere, what are you going to do? Its an awful long way to shove a bike back to the start. The experience of spannering on bikes gives a higher chance of being able to bodge a fix to get home.


The things I have used someone else ?
- wheel rebuilds. Whilst I could get the tools and learn, the need is so infrequent that it really doesn't pay back. And there is defo a skill in a good wheel build.

- rear shock + front fork 'heavy' services on an MTB. As I don't have the special tools, its difficult to get all the parts, and I don't have the nitrogen repressurisation equipment. I'll send those to specialist repairers (to Fox or to a company like TF Tuned).

- facing the BB. If needed (a debatable point). Again the cutting tool is about ÂŁ500 so not worth buying that for the
infrequent use (once per frame).
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I do everything on my own except wheel build and BB pressfit.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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Why won't you install a pressfit bottom bracket?
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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Dilbert wrote:
I do everything on my own except wheel build and BB pressfit.

I do everything, including wheel building, apart from bar taping. Honestly, that does defeat me.

For all the electrical/mechanical engineer comments that say there's nothing relevant in there, I think it more speaks to a logical thinking type of mind. I'm technically a civil engineer, albeit work in a fringe field of that now. But as a kid the petrol lawnmower wouldn't start one day. So I took it full to pieces, as in fully - crankshaft, piston rings, cleaned it all and reassembled. No instructions, no previous understanding of an engine and this was in the 1980s so pre you tube / google. I had a basic understanding of the theory of an engine from school, but this was a great way to really see how it all worked. I got lucky, and once reassembled then it stared first time and worked for years after. Only issue was that I must have slightly advanced the timing as you did need to semi jog to keep up with it from that point.

The advantage of doing your own work is that if something happens on the side of the road you have a much better chance of being able to come up with a fix yourself. Also I think a better chance of knowing if something is about to break - based on feel, noise, etc.

Whilst 95% of bike jobs can be done with a 6 piece hex set, the other 5% can be a PITA for tools. For example I've just had to buy a new chain tool. Not because I lost or broke my last one. But I've now got a collection which unfortunatly are god for 8 speed, one that's 9-10 speed and now one good for 8-12. Ditto the shimano bottom bracket tool. Needed to replace not because the BB splined part didn't fit, but because the axle size changed and so the tool was fouling. So bizarely the tools you use all the time (hex keys) tend to stay consistent, but the ones that you use rarely seem to end up being the ones that you need to upgrade every 5 years after 2-3 uses.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [Jkgoff] [ In reply to ]
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I always do my own work. After some pretty bad experiences with 2 LBS, I'd rather make sure it's done right, with care, and acquire some knowledge, tools, and confidence in the process.

In the era of You Tube and the internet, there's really not much that can't be done by yourself, and this applies to much more than just bikes.
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
Why won't you install a pressfit bottom bracket?

I don't have the right tool and never bothered to get one. Needed BB work once in 8 years I owned a pressfit BB and that was warranty frame replacement and was done by a shop anyways. Spesh wasn't going to just give me directly a new frame. I asked though. ;)
Last edited by: Dilbert: Jan 1, 21 9:33
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Re: To all you 'parts upgrade' bike folks - are you doing your own bike work? or LBS? [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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The thing is that you really don't need a special tool for a pressfit bottom bracket.

A piece of wood and a hammer work well.
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