That's the only reason I turned to that game. Was happy to see that moment. I couldn't watch much more of the game though, Vanderbilt football borders on unwatchable.

That was cool. Unfortunately they only had her do a squib kick. It would be nice to see her hammer it, she has quite the leg. Maybe next week against Georgia.

Damn, I didn't know this was a thing. Cool! I'll search for a clip.

https://twitter.com/...726134346170369?s=21

It’s one thing we can thank Covid for.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Thanks. Looks like she has some howitzers for legs. I want to see them use for more than a squib. I'll keep track now.

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I think it's a great example of gender equity and why Title 9 is antiquated. If women are allowed to play on mens teams, you can't really call them "men's teams" anymore, they are just "teams". This is the logical first step in breaking down sex discrimination created by "mens teams" and "womens teams". Or maybe I am wrong and letting this woman play is a terrible idea, creating an unfair double standard.

I think if we just got rid of men’s and women’s sports teams, and just had “teams,” there would simply be no more or dramatically fewer sports opportunities for women.

You can’t really let women onto men’s teams and not let men onto women’s teams, so if you got rid of the men/women designations, you’d just have to take the best athletes for each sport, and like it or not, that would generally mean you’d be taking the men.

I think you can get away with individual examples like this one, and I’m all for doing it when you can and it makes sense, but there are a lot of potential downsides to trying to make that change for sports in general.

Good for Miss Fuller, and good for Vanderbilt, but I wouldn’t look at this as signal for impending massive change.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

If there are just teams then women no longer get to play sports. This kicker would be an exception.

Good luck to the ladies making the “team”.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Isn’t that how it is now though? If its a sport where there’s no “men’s” and “women’s”, then there’s just “the team”. Eg football, hockey in many areas, artistic swimming.

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Sure for those sports. How about basketball. Should there be a team for basketball? Tennis?

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Hockey is co-ed only up to a certain age, then the boys become too big, strong and fast. I coached little league baseball for 5 years, my daughter was on a co-ed team. She enjoyed it, up to a point, then differences - physical, social and emotional - started to appear. The number of girls that dropped out was significant. The Coaching federation and the baseball leagues spent alot of time and resources trying to attract, teach us to coach, and retain girls... the reality is that if all sports were just teams, I don't believe the amount of girls that would even make it to high levels would be significant...

I'm sorry, we certainly can let women onto men's teams and not let men onto women's teams, that's been the case for decades. There are exceptional cases (and this is one of them), but folks have had no problem living with all those exceptions, yet still having men's and women's teams. Saying that you can't doesn't make it so.

There’s men’s and women’s basketball. Same in tennis, soccer, swimming, water polo etc etc.

There’s virtually no women’s football. There is women’s hockey, but in a lot of areas there isn’t enough participation (either through interest or availability) to have a women’s league. There’s no men’s artistic swimming. So if a man wants to do artistic swimming, he’s got to join “the team” which will be all women.

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I agree. The younger ages play no problem against the boys. After a certain point though, women have to be exceptional to play unless there’s a women’s league.

I would prefer if there were men’s and women’s teams in all sports, but that’s not the world we live in.

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Yes I understand all that. The poster I replied to suggested we do away with men’s and women’s sports. Just have teams.

So should we do away with women’s basketball? Let the womens try out for the basketball team?

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

We "can" do whatever we want. It would be pretty fucked up, and I think we could make a case for illegal, to open up men's teams for women in the name of equality, but not open up women's teams or sports to men.

Like said, these exceptional one off cases are one thing, but what TriYoda was talking about seemed to be making women on men's teams the norm.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Or let men try out for field hockey? How long before that sport was all men and virtually no women.

There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that men and women are not exactly the same.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I think you might be confused on what Title IX is. Title IX is a federal civil rights law, it is not just for sports. It says

“No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.”


I do not see that as "antiquated"

For at least 50 years , I have seen men's and women's sports AND a handful of exceptions made for women who can compete on the men's team. For that entire time people have made your exact argument. Reality simply rolls along, and doesn't care. Perhaps at some point you should re-evaluate the premise of your argument?

There remain compelling reasons why women's and men's sports are separated, and reasons to have exceptions. I don't care what TriYoda posted, the same idea has posted for decades, and sounds great, except for all of the ways that it fails. (no, the singular instance of one women being a placekicker on a college team does not indicate "gender equity", it's a near-perfect example of "an exception")

I don’t know what you think you’re arguing against here. You seem to basically be restating my position.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

In addition to not being a "sports law," it does not expressly protect women in sports. It protects the rights of the "under represented gender." The fact that when we say under represented gender (regarding sports), we all know in practicality we mean "the girls and women," which is why this law isn't antiquated. The women on most campuses still get the short end of the stick, regarding playing opportunities, scholarship money, and related benefits like travel, uniforms, etc. The gaps are closing but we haven't arrived at equity yet.

According to the NCAA, men make up about 56% of the athletes, while there are more women in college than men, across all schools.

Yeah, pretty much. Triyoda's position seems a bit out of whack. I don't see this as significantly different than the path that we have taken for many years.

I haven't been involved in cycling in a while now, but back when I was women could enter the men's races. I think they just raced down a category or two. We seem to be able to use common sense and decide when women can participate with men and the world isn't going to implode.

Men are allowed. And some colleges have mens' field hockey. And big field hockey countries - i.e. Germany, Netherlands - have mens national hockey teams as well as club level teams. Canada competes in most mens Olympics. The US hasn't fielded a mens team since 96, we we had an automatic bid as host. We ended round robin 0-0-5, scoring 3 goals. Allowing 23... We were the worst of the 10 teams by a huge margin.

Men’s field hockey isn’t an NCAA sport. I think a handful of schools may use men on their practice squads. I’m sure there may be some schools that offer it as a club sport and I’m aware that there is international men’s field hockey. How our men perform in that league is kind of immaterial. My point was that, if you stopped differentiating between men’s and women’s teams or sports, and just recruited the best athletes for each sport, women would end up getting shut out a lot more than they currently are.

There are a lot of guys who can’t get a scholarship for men’s football, baseball, basketball, soccer, etc, because they’re not quite good enough. A lot of those guys would be pretty good if not top tier players if they were on the women’s teams.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Was the kick that short on purpose? If not it was a pretty lame kick. Not sure what the point of that was. I guess a novelty thing. Glad they kept her out of a situation where she could have got hammered.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Sarah got it done:

https://twitter.com/.../1337875724691247108

Yea!

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Noice! FG next step?

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spockwaslen wrote:

Glad they kept her out of a situation where she could have got hammered.

Why, you think women are somehow super fragile?

Here, here's a HS chick putting a solid hit on the returner. :)

That’s pretty cool.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

She ‘sent him flying’?

Looked she bounced off and flew the farthest of the two. Probably a weight class thing.

Good hit though. I played coed roller hockey for a time and some of those girls could really put it on you.

Chicks are definitely more ‘fragile’ than men, as a group.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Good stuff!

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"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

Nope they brought in a guy to kick a 39 yard field goal, which isn't exactly long. But she did kick another extra point.

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I miss YaHey

I loved seeing how her team rallied around her after she made the points. Also, it was awesome to see the ref bringing the football to her on the sideline......he was trying his best to get her attention, with the ball

Me too. It is cool to see how sports can bring out the best in us.

I wonder how many little girls are outside today trying to kick a field goal(or have been hounded by their dads to come out into the backyard and give it a try). What a time to be alive.

It might be worth noting that the history of the “Power 5” isn’t particularly long. The term has only been in use for about 15 years.

Not to diminish the hard work of Sarah Fuller, but let’s not forget that Katie Hnida kicked extra points for New Mexico in 2003, and April Goss kicked for Kent State in 2015. There have been a handful of other women playing college football for FBS teams as well.

In particular, Hnida had a rough time of it, having originally played for Colorado, where she alleged a teammate raped her, after which her coach and the fans treated her very poorly.

What Fuller is doing is nice, even though she’s only kicking point afters, and another male kicker is kicking field goals (so far). But fortunately or unfortunately, I don’t know that it’s any symbol of significant change. It’s a function of COVID dictated necessity. And in the discussion of her being the “first” the narrative has tended to overlook the women who actually preceded her.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)