Carbon X messed my feet up good on my trial sockless run! I've bought the new On cloudflash as Ons have always seemed to work sockless for me, and they can be my sprint/olympic tri shoes as well as my short run race shoes with carbon X's as my longer run race shoes and 70.3 plus tri race shoes

So far endorphin working in our hot conditions (33++ c) sweaty feet seems ok even I can't wear kinvara no socks for long the endorphins seem pretty good. Note I have the speed not the pro but other than heel cup they seem very similar in the fit and liner.

I found the original nike 4% to be super good sockless

I have them almost all since i like to test running shoes.
I can wear sockless the saucony speed and endorphin, new balance fuelcell tc, energy streak and the fuelcell rc elite, hoka carbon x and carbon rocket.
Also in the new adidas adizero adios pro.

So quite some that work well.

Jeroen

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

if you are going to cheat go all out. rollerblades should work fine sockless too.

Nah, now, look, rollerblading is something that isn’t in my league.
But runningshoes....yes, i love them so i buy them, a lot ;-)

Jeroen

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

There are plus - minuses of every one of the shoes. It all depends on the shape of your foot and the overall fit of the shoe. Going sock-less depending on the length of the run you may want to alter the size of the shoe. Then there is the ease of putting it on. So here’s my view:

1. Attached tongues - Once on they tend to work better but getting them on is harder. I’m confident I’d catch my pinky toe on the Saucony Endorphin Pro tongue. I like the tongue on both NB shoes. They are also both going to be very breathable.
2. Shoe Length and Space - I could go barefoot in the Endorphin Pro no problem. For the NB RC I would need to go down a 1/2 size but for the Elite I would use my standard size. For the Nike Next % and Alpha Next % I’d go down a 1/2 size. The Flyknit 4% worked great barefoot (hard to get on) but that’s because it ran about 1/4 size short.

The others:
Brooks Hyperion Elite 2 - The overall shape and tongue construction looks great. I’m not sure what the backing is on that upper. It doesn’t look like it’s a smooth interior but I could be wrong.

Adidas Adizero - If it fits your foot really well it till work great. Any movement you have in the shoe will cause problems.

Hoka One One Rocket X - It looks like it has the same tongue construction as the Carbon X which I think is part of the problem with the Carbon X. I have not put the shoe on so understand I’m simply putting my visual construction hat on.

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

Have you tried the carbon X SPE? Sock like one piece upper / no tongue. Much better that regular model.

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Merge Multisport Founder & Head Coach
USAT Level 2 - Short & Long Course
Ironman Certified
Brevard, NC

thanks, that looks pretty interesting.

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

Nike Next % work great for me without socks. I LOVE the upper on those shoes. Not the fastest to put on because you have to be careful with the tongue.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

well. at least there karma to using these cheater shoes. there are tons of people with achilles problems now after usage

Huh? Have no idea what you are talking about (or why).

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

This is what I was able to dig up regarding carbon plate running shoes pertaining to the sport of triathlon. I used Google to find this, hope that's not cheating....
What do the new shoe rules say?

The new rule, to take effect immediately, requires that running shoes have a maximum midsole thickness of 40mm and no more than one stiff carbon plate. This rule appears to grandfather in the Nike Vaporfly Next%s, which has been a popular shoe of choice among elite marathoners and many top triathletes.

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

Must be a let’s run poster...do you really save that much time not putting socks on?

I guess depending on the distance I would think the comfort of socks would make up for the 5 seconds to put them on. But that’s just me.

What kind of bike do you ride?

I believe it is against forum rules to call carbon plated shoes or the athletes that wear them “cheaters”.

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

Since you say you do sprint distance races I’ll mention one that hasn’t been listed.

ASICS MetaRacer.

Not as high stack height as others, great midsole foam and plate. I really like it for shorter stuff, especially if the course has twists and turns.

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Boots
Fleet Feet Rochester, NY
Fleet Feet Buffalo, NY
YellowJacket Racing, Rochester, NY

Are they “cheater shoes” because they’re faster than all the shoes? Harder to get than other shoes? Don’t work for you so not happy with others with advantage? Too expensive? Because they’re NIKE?

I Thought calling the OG vaporfly cheater shoes was dumb too but since they were the only ones at the time I could see maybe unfair, but not for anyone not getting paid to wear a certain brand. But now that every other brand has had 3 years to develop a shoe to compete but haven’t been able come up with anything as good yet can’t even call it unfair. But not cheating at all.

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Twitter - Instagram

I wear the endorphins pros myself sockless. I never had a blister issue yet. This is my main go to shoe for now.

I just had a look at these at a pre race expo. They felt great, very light. More like a racing flat. I've got Next%s but am keen to get these.

Why is a carbon plate shoe a must if your only doing a sprint? Most of the carbon plated shoes have a big chunk of soft foam to last a marathon not a 5K. Running a 5k you can just about pick any shoe. If bare feet is the most important don't worry about a carbon plate.

Adidas Adizero Pro or the Adios Pro. The celarmesh upper is pretty soft.

Most research that I have seen indicates that carbon plated shoes are faster regardless of the distance. Of course the benefit will be amplified in a marathon but there's still a few seconds of "free" speed even in a 5k. If you look at ITU guys a good number of them are using these type shoes and they are running no longer than 10k.

I'm 65 and at an age where I'm basically just happy to be out there but like most people I want to go as less slow as possible.

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

True, because these shoes make you use your calfs more by how they work. So everybody that runs in these shoes on a regular base should do some extra calf exercises.

Jeroen

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

For the NB RC I would need to go down a 1/2 size but for the Elite I would use my standard size.

I think you mean you need to go down a 1/2 size for the TC and the RC Elite, right?
The latter fitting a bit more narrow and tighter then the TC.

Jeroen

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

Calling these carbon plated shoes "cheater shoes" is something I expect from letsrun but not here.

Do you also think that using a wetsuit is cheating in the swim? How about non UCI legal bikes, are those cheating too?

yes. the more tech required - the more money invested required. This is diluting some good competitors from the field - especially up and coming athletes. I know many fast swimmers and runners who would kill it in tri, but shut out due to costs - so they stick in swim/run world

In a sport with with $12,000+ bikes, and $600+ wetsuits, I'd say that ship sailed long before $200+ shoes came along.

This is starting to smell like an endurance racing socialism rant inbound......................

Cheap glory? You just got through complaining about how expensive it was. You need to make up your mind.

Jeroen - As you know the TC has a fairly stiff upper. It doesn’t completely wrap the foot. I’d go down a 1/2 size to get that upper to wrap my foot. As for the Elite, that upper is a standard mesh upper that can and will wrap the foot. I’m confident the regular size I wear would work just fine.

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

The second gen Nike 4% with the knit upper

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Matt

Why don’t we all just run barefoot you’re all a bunch of pansy’s wearing shoes and all. The sport is too expensive you shouldn’t be allowed shoes. Hell no bikes either, just run around with a couple coconuts making the sound of a disc wheel.

If he’s gonna bitch about shoes with a carbon plate he better bitch about all shoes, because just a shoe was a major advantage compared to running sandals. Probably someone was using an African swallow to send messages to their friends bitching about the guy who started using shoes instead of sandals.

Yes, but your original post said RC to go down 1/2 a size and Elite the normal size. So that's what I meant when I comment to you, you wanted to say TC instead of RC.
The upper is not only a bit stiffer on the TC also it is wider then the RC. I think the TC is about the widest of all carbon plated shoes and the even have e wide version of it :-).

Jeroen

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

Do you have any past experience racing on a light well made old-school racing-flat? Have you actually compared how much faster they are compared to them? Point is, yes they are faster, but to call them "cheating shoes" when they follow the regulations, seems a bit weird. On the contrary I found it exciting that finally there is some innovation in the shoe department other than changing shoe colours or discontinuing racing flats that worked well for me (i.e. mizunos wave ekiden).

Perhaps those of us who have some experience racing on flats and spikes are not having as many achilles issues with carbon plated shoes ;-)

yes I do. i guess the problem is not racing. the problem is keeping track of times. Races need to boast about position people are in, and not mention times anymore. we will never know who is GOAT now.