Link to the activity: https://www.strava.com/activities/3272925884

wow!

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Sam is legit on the bike. He just needs to get that swim going. Sounds familiar...

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Between Skipper, Long, and Sanders, these guys really are living in an alternate universe. Most are just trying to put food on the table and stay healthy, while these guys are pushing limits. I'm surpised more professional endurance athletes aren't phasing into base training with no imminent race season on the horizon. It almost seems a little misguided with some of the KOM hunting and so forth going on. It's like these guys are oblivious to the rest of the world. Don't get me wrong, it's not like everyone is supposed to stop training, but on the other hand these yeoman efforts we're seeing, don't seem aligned with good sense or social perspective at a time like this.

Someone I know snagged a KOM in a closed public park yesterday. I told him he shouldn't have been there, and to keep it on the down low, due to a likely back lash on social media. We all have to have some respect for others and social awareness right now.

Again, I'm not trying to be critical, but the overall optics are not good at the moment. On another note I've lost like 6 KOMs recently. I'm a little surpised people are gunning so hard for them despite the current situation. I guess people are bored AF and looking for an outlet. On the other hand, I'm training regularly but just not pushing limits too hard. Staying healthy is more important to me right now.

Stress release, channeling the racer energy and publicity and social media komradery... Its common....

https://www.cyclingnews.com/...oronavirus-lockdown/

He needs to post his heartrate. I would be curious to see how it holds up to Sander's, which is somehow just incredibly low.

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Team Zoot 2023

I can´t speak as to Joe´s training or Sam's, but I´ll give you this insight.....

Lionel didn´t train to smash the KOM, nor did he particularly train to focus on the Zwift race of late. Nor is he crushing a block of intensity orientated training or KOM chasing. We were training business as usual upto a month or so ago then in fact between no swimming and limiting outdoor riding to an absolute minimum we had a week or so of downshifting and reappraising the plan ahead.

Your comments do come across as critical and imply bad optics across all three when all three individual situations are vastly different.

If I thought for a moment Lionel was jeopardising his health and the health of others around him or ignoring appropriate social practises I would be the first to pull him up on it.

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David T-D
http://www.tilburydavis.com

Always enjoy hearing the insights from the actual coach!

Thank you for speaking up about that.

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Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

He’s a monster. He did Waco 70.3 last year and beat Starky and won the race although he was recovering from shoulder injury. Now I want to Sanders taking it back.

I don't think Sam Long raced Waco last year but I know he didn't win. Sam Appleton did.

Might be easier and a lot safer to chase KOMs on far quieter roads so why not breakup the boredom ?

oh I enjoy this KOM chase

Not to take anything away from Sam, but do we know if it was done solo. I recall his last attempt was done with a training partner.

Anyone know Sam's weight? 404 for 75 mins seems like insanity for a smaller guy like me....ha. Incredible.

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24 Hour World TT Champs-American record holder
Fat Bike Worlds - Race Director
Insta: chris.s.apex

Does anyone know if he used a road bike or a TT bike? I haven't done this climb, but based on the average speeds and possible wind, I would imagine a TT bike would be beneficial, assuming the person is familiar and dialed for that bike. I gotta think a tri guy would be very comfortable on a TT bike for an effort like this. I know Lionel used his rd bike, so just wondering if we are comparing apples to apples (well at least the same variety of apples).

I know there will always be multiple factors to influence an effort like this (wind would be a big one), so I'm not in anyway criticizing here. Just wondering about his setup if anyone knows.

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_______________________________________________

Same is one of the best cyclists in triathlon, while impressive this is no surprise to anyone who’s been following him for a while.

i feel confident saying he was on his road bike. it was a good wind day, yesterday.

Lmao you have to be kidding me

If people are allowed to walk their dog or go for a casual bike ride, hunting KOMs is no different. Just because it’s more passionate than a walk down the block doesn’t make it more dangerous, if anything it’s still less dangerous because of the isolation. Meanwhile sidewalks and city trails that aren’t shut down are absolutely clogged and look like a parade, but nobody says anything about them because those people aren’t KOM hunting.

Aside from a few countries in the world, anyone can go outside and exercise. What exactly are the people worrying about putting food on the table able to do about it right now? Nothing, they’re in their houses waiting like everyone else. No reason to let that stop you from exercising.

He’s 6’4 and 175, just said in a story last week. Also rode alone yesterday which he noted since the first was done with another guy Tyler Stites.

Thanks for the insights - now the real question is: when is Lionel's next attempt on that KOM?! Looking forward to hearing about that one :-)

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Instagram
Youtube Channel
Meta Endurance

Overproduced video with 60k views at 200 jock sniffing fanboy comments patting him on the back or it doesn't count.

And his dad is Bill Brasky! 6'10" and 320 lbs. He rode a unicycle up Everest while juggling his 6 wives!

Who cares about the "optics" of this. Going for KOMs is fun. It's fun to still be competitive with no racing on the horizon.

I see where you're coming from, regarding the dark times we're in, but there isn't anything wrong with doing solo KOM challenges. I'm a nurse and I've been working my butt off and putting myself at danger on a daily basis. Sadly I feel I'm in the best fitness of my life. I've been crushing my areas KOM's by large margins. It is a huge stress reliever and a way to take the mind off the terrible situation we're all in. Gotta embrace the fitness somehow. This covid crisis isn't going away any time soon. You're wrong calling out the rider who 'snagged' your KOM. It sounds as though you're just afraid to get it back. Maybe you require a lead out from others in order to get these KOM's and now you can't do it? If it is solo, how is this any different than someone walking their dog on the side walk? I understand the narcissism of the whole thing, but this Covid isn't going anywhere for a long time.

I'm glad to hear that Lionel is dialing in the training efforts to keep himself and his family healthy.

My point is in regards to the overall optics and I'm not trying to pick on these guys specifically but the thread mentions them specifically so that is why I mentioned them.

I am convinced the person you responded to is a top notch troll - he even nabbed DTD with this one. There's several posts made by that poster over the past 6ish months that are similarly odd - I recall one about riding with earphones in is a form of suicide or something like that. Absolutely has to be trolling. The piece about not taking his KOMs actually made me certain of it and laugh.

Afraid to get it back? Dude took 4 of mine in one ride with a spring hurricane on his back. Literally a 30 mph sustained wind and all of those KOMs were directly wind aided. I really don't give a crap as I've been on the trainer for convenience. If I wanted them I would just re-target them. I'm pretty much over KOM hunting though for the foreseeable future as I think it's not really helping with training goals.

I'm not a troll, and yes riding with your senses impaired (headphones) is a bad idea.

I ride outside every Saturday, I run outside every day. Bite me.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Can you explain how riding your bike(regardless of how slow or how fast) up an open public road is bad optics? I think you need you need to go for a bike ride. I am surprised as how many people think no one is allowed to have any fun or challenge themselves a bit just because of COVID. I am tired of the "if someone is having fun then they are clearly doing something wrong" attitude. He was out breathing fresh air.. probably safer than sitting around in Tucson. Bad optics would be someone jumping on their private jet and flying off to their private island and instreaming the journey while bragging about it and playing corn hole with beanbags made our of N95 masks.

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______________________________________________
Team Zoot

Nobody is saying it's not okay to ride outside.

I understand. I sort of feel the same way regarding pro athletes and a lot of their posts. I'm mostly annoyed by the people who are comfy and safe at home posting silly videos of how much fun they're having. The fact is, they're insignificant in the world right now and they are so used to getting attention. But I gotta say, Sam and Lionel crushing the climb is pretty awesome. This is hard work and inspiring.

The social optics of riding your bike up a hill

I've now heard it all

In the Triathlete article, Lionel's response is,

“It’s a very impressive effort. So impressive that I might even let it stand until next weekend, we’ll see.”

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Sam's turning into the old Lionel....huge effort nonetheless

#humblebrag

I did his first bike fit, haha. Should have seen the bike he was on, it was atrocious, still ended up getting like 5th(?) overall at IM Boulder in his first IM, pretty impressive!

Wait, did we just find the "patient zero" that could have told Lionel to bring his knees in when he pedals? WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY ANYTHING?!

Just kidding. And seriously, I was watching Peter Sagan today during the 2018 Paris-Roubaix and he pedals the same way and nobody dares to give him crap about it. I guess once you've already won enough, people's perception of stuff changes a lot.

Maybe he covered it in a video I missed, but is there some reason he isn't heading back to Windsor (or wherever his house is) so he can use his endless pool?

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Dan Mayberry
Amateur a lot of things, professional a few things.

Pics etc here: https://www.slowtwitch.com/...unt_Lemmon_7636.html

Not knowing Sam at all, I find my opinion of somebody that wears skull graphics and drives a Ford Raptor highly depends on if he came up with the nickname "Big Unit" for himself or somebody else did. Until I find out, I'll reserve judgement.

(I myself love skull t shirts, used to drive a F-150, and tried to get co-workers to call me "Big-Daddy B" when I was his age, so I'm definitely not any better a person than him. Just sayin' I need to get to the bottom of this.)

Not to pass judgement on you for trying to force your own nickname BUT thank you for asking the question that needed to be asked!! Where did Big Unit nickname come from for Long? This will go a long way towards perception.

it was a self-proclaimed nick name.

also: he does not drive a $70k truck

He’s sponsored by Wattie and that’s one of their kits. He used to drive a truck, which he slept in for like a month while racing 2 IM’s. Traded the truck for a Prius. Also dating a Canadian girl who got him to wear more pink than most riders.

I’m 99.9% sure that’s not his truck. Probably Sean Wattie if I were to guess.

Not sure what your beef is with the kit. It's pretty rad. It's called War Master and it was Josh Amberger's design for Kona 2019.

Sam is in fact a Big Unit at 6-4 175 in this game where frodo is the same height but ten lbs less. I suppose Starky could be the Unit since he's 6-2 185.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Maybe he is a Randy Johnson fan....

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Let food be thy medicine...

Is Wattie a rich kid? No disrespect just wondering.

Well, he does own a company that charges $300+ for a kit that cost less 15%( guess) to make. No idea if he’s “rich” but I’m sure they are doing just fine. Also doesn’t seem like he has kids which lowers expenses.

Again, might not be Wattie’s truck. I was just guessing but am very confident it’s not Sam’s

True. But if I was Sam and there's already a "Big Unit" sports star out there, I would declare myself as "The Bigger Unit". Or for triathlon distinction an homage to 50 Cent, "The T Unit".

No, Wattie drives a Honda Element.

Wattie and Heather are not big spenders; most of their money goes back into the business.

Looks like he lost it by 15min yesterday!
Anyone know how to flag a ride? Looks like this girl left her gps on in the car

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Putting the girl in the car aside, I'd like to know why Michael Woods was so slow relative to Long and Sanders. There is no way these guys are even in the same zip code as Woods. the guy was third at UCI World's in 2018 on that crazy Innsbruck course with 5000m of climbing over 265km. So either Woods had a massive headwind with gatorskins and a 20 lbs backpack on just for shits and giggles, or he was dogging it at the end of a 400km ride. He should beat Long and Sanders with one leg. The guy did run a 3:45 1500m as a junior at the Pan Am games and he's 20-30 lbs lighter than Long and Sanders. So would be interesting to see what a protour climber going all out does.

And they're down in Patagonia gravel riding and swimming.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Not everyone goes all out for a KOM on a training ride. Woods did it back in 2015 when he was still at Continental level and it was at a training camp in January, so probably not in the best shape (https://www.strava.com/activities/244273910).

I honestly don’t think the World Pro Tour guys are that far ahead of the top triathlon guys when it comes to straight power. LOOK at Andrew Talansky’s bike performances in triathlon..

Bike handling skills are a different subject.
We all saw how hard Phil Gaimon went up Lemmon now we have 2 triathletes that went harder..

Triathletes are the best athletes on the planet. It's no surprise they're competing with pro cyclists.

Gotcha. Heather recently posted her, Wattie, Paula and Eric were all quarantining together. Who knows....

Lemmon isn't really a great litmus test for "straight power."

The tri guys would get smoked if it was a 30-40min climb. And if it was a climb at the end of a 5hr stage @ high VI.

How do you define "straight power"? We can setup whatever boundary conditions we want to ensure our favorite kinds of athletes will win some theoretical competition.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Hey, when pro cyclists just do cycling, they are way above triathletes. Once they have to swim and run, their bike suffers (ex Talansky, Chann McRae. Even Lance even got outsplit by Kienle at Galveston 2012 and Lance was only 2 years of racing as a pro cyclist). How good can some triathletes get if they just bike, we don't know. Richie Porte is probably a good example of a triathlete turned cyclist. I bet if he turned back to triathlon he would not have the fastest bike split in Kona. I think he's too small to ride as hard as some of the bigger tri guys like (Wurf...he is a good example of a diesel pro rider who is better as a triathlete than cyclist). But I bet Porte would blow the doors off Lemmon given his size.

i don't know what it means, i was replying to someone else.

Didnt lance retire at 40 though?

Pro triathletes becoming uphill kom killers to make the most of this situation is quite innovative and entertaining

I know, it's just that you made some specific inferences about how you would define it that was inherent in your answer. I'm not saying it's wrong just that it's arbitrary.

I think it's pretty safe to say that the vast majority of pro tour cyclists would beat the vast majority of pro triathletes in a typical cycling race and vice versa.

A solo time trial up a long climb is not a typical cycling race, as you correctly point out.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

i used it in quotes because it felt like an arbitrary "benchmark."

The all time "greatest" ITT on a 6000 ft vertical climb happened in the 2004 Dauphine (we can have a laugh of how fast juiced guys did Ventoux, but there you have it):

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/...4/?id=results/stage4

1 Iban Mayo (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 55.51.49 (23.202 km/h) 2 Tyler Hamilton (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 0.35.26 3 Oscar Sevilla (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 1.03.09 4 Juan Miguel Mercado (Spa) Quick.Step-Davitamon 1.48.44 5 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal presented by Berry Floor 1.57.89 6 Inigo Landaluze (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 2.22.75 7 Jos� Gutierrez (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 2.44.09 8 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Rabobank 3.21.18 9 Michael Rasmussen (Den) Rabobank 3.33.38 10 St�phane Goubert (Fra) Ag2R Prevoyance 3.35.81

Yo, Yo, Yo
It’s the BIG… UNIT… himself coming to provide some insight and clarification.

I actually laughed out loud (LOL) multiple times reading this. It’s just too dang funny. I’ll clarify a few things in no particular order. Well maybe in the order of what grabbed my attention!

The Ford Raptor. First off, it’s an 80K truck (I know ST’s care a lot about detail). Second off, it’s not my truck--I’m not sure how I would have ridden my bike and a truck up at the same time. In fact, I am down in Tucson without a car at all. Interestingly, I have never even owned a car. The F-150 (blue) that I lived out of and drove up to Canada to race in was my parents. So was the Prius they then let me use as well. I have now been downgraded and was not able to use their car(s). Thus, no car for me. Oh well, that’s the trying to make it as-a-pro-triathlete-life. It belongs to my friend who lives in Tucson (and sagged me for the ride). Dope car though.

As to the nickname Big Unit—It’s not self-proclaimed—and I agree if I wore skull kits, drove a Ford Raptor and called myself the Big Unit I would almost certainly be (have) the opposite 😊. I was first called the Big Unit in 2018 at a master’s workout. The coach decided to give me a lecture (about my swimming that needed work). He shouted something to the effect of “Sam, you’re a Big Unit, you’ve got a lot of power, and your strength to surface area is HUGE!! But you don’t know how to use your size and I’m going to teach you how…” (The coach is a true legend)

What made it better was that he stopped the whole pool to give me these pointers. The pool happened to be entirely full of females. We all got a good laugh and in Boulder, the name stuck. Like most things with me, it started with a good laugh and fun and just took off from there! I like the nickname Big Unit because yes it refers to my size but also, even more, my personality and way of life. I do things BIG: I train hard, I race a lot, I’m not afraid to fail, and I go all in regardless of what I’m doing. I also think it’s good to have a nickname on the professional side that make size and strength a positive (especially with all that has gone on about race weight, being lean as can be, Mary Cain, etc.). I’ll leave it at that—for now—and you’re more than welcome to call me Sam too.

As to going after KOM’s. I think it’s an awesome thing to do. That’s why it did. The world needs friendly competition and has been starved of that with COVID-19. Are there bigger concerns? Absolutely. I also have done everything I can to train in isolation and to protect my immune system before and after this effort. With races on the schedule, it is/was highly unlikely I would go after such a hard KOM as it really can take a bit to recover. The timing worked out well with training as I had been preparing for Oceanside and St. George. My fitness was therefore pretty good. As soon as these races got canceled, the training got toned down to base training. I did essentially one high-intensity workout for this effort (5x5’ at ~440, 5’ at ~490, and 30’ at 391) and was ready. In general, my physiology responds well to aerobic training and I hold onto fitness well so it’s no surprise that I was ready for this. I won’t be surprised if my bike keeps getting better with just base training right now as the volume is up due to a lack of swimming.

Way to bring up the first bike fit story. Man, that bike was a humble starting point. I bought it for 400 bucks used on Craigslist and still managed a 4:42 bike split in my first IM.

Thanks, everyone! I really enjoyed reading this. Hopefully, my humor wasn’t too much. I also really appreciate people being interested in the backstory of things and getting to know me as a person, not just an athlete. Thanks to my sponsors Argon18, Enve, Wattie Ink, SelectBlinds, IceFriction, First Endurance, AltRed, Suunto, Shimano,

Rudy, and ISM.

Cheers,
Sam (or I should I say THE BIG UNIT!!!)

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Sam Long
AKA The BigUnit
IG: @samgolong

That was solid. Now...don't tell us mortals about your workouts...I couldn't imagine holding 300 watts for 5 minutes let alone 440!

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Didn't you pick the outlier, though? Seems most of the top 160-165 lb pros (Kienle, Hoffman, O'Donnell, Sanders) are around 5'10" - 5'11". Tall Unit might be more accurate. lol

I intentionally went with the tall boys. Now lets have some silver bullets for this float down the river!

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Nice one, are there any other koms or vitual races youre considering?

What a beauty. Someone get this guy an active Youtube channel.

You (almost) made it into Phil's latest video! Around the 8 minute mark he says he is aware that Lionel took his KOM and that "someone else" took it from him...guess you aren't quite on a by-name basis for him (yet!)

You sir are a scholar and a gentleman!!! It's awesome that you 1) had your attention grab by the truck talk followed by nickname chat 2) that you took the time to tell a funny story about the nickname (you seem to have left out if the coach calling you Big Unit in front of a pool full of women only caused laughter or if you ended up with phone numbers/dates?!)

Keep living the dream BIG!

the phil/lionel storyline was fun because they are both youtubers so there was a weekly back and forth starting

Phil/Lionel have the potential to be the Coe/Ovett mile battle of our time, unless Long is the Cram?

You can't be serious. Who cares about "optics"? We are free to come and go as we please and ride or run as hard and fast as we like. If you are worried about this nonsense you spout stay inside and play on your trainer.

This thread has been fun to read and follow. With no races going on, we might as well follow epic strava kom competitions.

Sam, you just earned a new follower on IG. I'm almost the exact same build as you at 6"5/175. Not the same ftp though.

Kompetitions!

the most important thing you wrote.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Sam - you seem to have abandoned the other nickname we gave you at masters class a couple of years ago - Baby Moose!

I don't blame you for not adopting that one... but at the time it was pretty fitting!

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

A real challenge would be the Tucson[ish] Triple Crown (<--- I made that up but it sounds legit):

Mt. Lemmon - you've got that one
Kitt Peak - you've got a pretty fast time on that one
Mt. Graham - have you done that one?

Mt. Graham is probably the hardest. The pitch varies and it's at least 1.25hrs but it goes a little higher and the course is more windy (than Lemmon).

Just a few examples of what high end world tour power looks like (Gaimon could not secure a contract so not a good data point). The cancellara and froome data points are always the most eye opening to myself personally. Cancellara did 440 AP 460NP for 1:12 in Rio and he was quite lean, if i recall correctly 170lbs. Then Froome's stage 19 at the Giro, doing over 400w for an hour at 145lbs is beyond comprehension considering the fatigue already in his legs.

http://www.stickybottle.com/...tt-is-truly-awesome/

https://cyclingtips.com/...r-watts-amstel-gold/

https://cyclingtips.com/...e-pro-road-cyclists/

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/...e-weight-race-385048

Not any more 😋😂

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David T-D
http://www.tilburydavis.com

😎 👏🏻

So where is the new video!! I've watched the Findlay one 3 times already, need some fresh KOM meat...

Looks like Lionel tried and missed today, if you check the KOM. You see he is only 5 s back, but when you try to enter it he has it deleted?

Good catch, would be cool to find out would happened!

A swing and a miss by 5 seconds has to hurt.

https://www.strava.com/...#2687293455008506173

I thought the "real" one is Mt. Lemmon Official:


AthleteTime1Lionel Sanders1:12:4416.6mi/h2Sam (BigUnit) Long1:13:0016.5mi/h

Yeah looks like he took most of the full Mt Lemmon segments except the one called Mt Lemmon.

Also, holy hell. Does everyone that rides Lemmon think then need to create a new segment? Strava should clean that up.

Yeah that’s what phil G went for and that’s the only Lionel went for. Lionel has only been going for the MT Lemmon official here.
https://strava.app.link/OVXkQDYEQ5

Although the real kind of the mountain is the one who rides from the bottom to the top.. the top is like 5 miles past where Sam long stopped.
Who knows it’s all for fun.

https://www.strava.com/segments/12339842

Maybe next time Lionel should of blown the stop sign and he would of been up to speed starting on a 1 mile flat before the climb. Gotta love a cyclist who does that.

So heather and paula need to go back to do the real climb

Uh, looking at Lionel's Strava from this morning, he went through that stop sign at 21 mph. Sam's attempt on April 8th, he slowed down to 11.9 mph before rolling through the sign. Just sayin.

The day Sam took that strange 5min segment KOM a few weeks back I saw him at the bottom roll through that stop sign. We are all guilty of rolling stop signs.

Sam (BigUnit) Long
Good effort! But not quite enough.

Lionel Sanders
Sam (BigUnit) Long You really gunna do me like that? https://www.strava.com/.../2687293455008506149 All that time from the other segment is from the run up to the base of the mountain!

Lionel Sanders
Sam (BigUnit) Long This is the segment without the run up to the base of the mountain: https://www.strava.com/segments/14959515. It's all good bro. Just for fun.

Sam (BigUnit) Long
Lionel Sanders I know, very impressive ride! We'll call us the dual kings!

Lionel Sanders
Amy Ellett it's not a hidden segment. It is the first one that comes up on my dashboard. It has been attempted by 10117 people versus 9297 people for the other segment. I'm not going to get into it over a Strava segment. The reality is it is not even the top of mount lemmon as I climbed another 1000ft after it!

Exactly. They both rolled through it on the days they took their KOMs. Lionel nearly double the speed of Sam, even.

I personally have a $250 traffic ticket for rolling through a stop sign on my bike in the middle of nowhere, no Strava segment involved whatsoever. And then an hour spent arguing with a cop and then judge and defensive driving anyways afterwards. I'm not saying we don't do it. What I'm saying is acting like we don't is laughable.

When somebody says, "Maybe he shoulda blown through the stop sign..." like Sam did and he didn't? Yeah, he did. And at nearly twice the speed of the competition.

I strongly dislike segments that include stop signs or lights. I am not sure why that is "allowed" on Strava, to be honest. If anything, it puts more validity on the non Sam Long KOM segment.

jkhayc wrote:

I strongly dislike segments that include stop signs or lights. I am not sure why that is "allowed" on Strava, to be honest. If anything, it puts more validity on the non Sam Long KOM segment.

True. Sam started the segment at a pretty pedestrian 11.9 mph while Lionel was doing 22. Somebody could do the 11th grade word problem math there and figure out what time disadvantage that gives Sam. How long does it take to get up to 22 mph from 12 at their weight and 300 watts or so.

What would be TRULY badass is for one of them to take the KOM from a dead stop. Street cred intensifiezzzz

Any video footage from today KOM? Glad Lionel came back.. Now Poor Sam has a lot of time to think about it lol. Good job guys

Someone flagged Sams ride?
https://www.strava.com/activities/3272925884

Zen...someone comments in Lionel’s strava on his recent ride about flagging what I believe was Sam Longs effort.

"400 watts - Must be a cheater"

Could have spent ten seconds on google if you didn't know who Sam Long was...

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Yeah, the stop sign segment thing is annoying.

As far as riding around town, it all depends on your 'locale'. If it's a rural area with douche cops or sherrifs with nothing to do, good luck. It's enough ride time between stops, I usually slow to a track stand. I'd rather not have a 60mph speeder round a corner and plow me.

In the city, the cops themselves roll the stop signs and just wave as you roll your bike by. They know that if you hit "zero" at every sign you'd never get anywhere in town on a bike. If I'm in a "smaller" town, I usually track stand it then go to avoid the renegade small town cop. You're only there for a minute or two anyway.

Segments though, I don't really go after any with a downhill or flat land stop sign or light involved. Not worth it. You're hurting and thinking you got it and instead of rolling it at 5 to 10mph you head down blast it and die while thinking it's clear.

If it's THAT important to you, have a spotter ride with you and camp at the intersection to flag for you for traffic and cops/riders. Then they can wave you off to stop.

Not many comments about wind conditions on the attempts which would have a huge impact on times, anyone local have info on this?

4/20 for Lionel at 8:07am wind looked to be super mild (good or bad?) compared to 4/8 attempt by Sam and 4/17 attempt by Stites which had very strong S winds.

Yeah, I agree. I once was focused on getting a KOM and it required me to sail through an intersection at high speed. I had the right of way and no stop sign, but it was still very dangerous to just expect other cars to see you and stop. I thought about asking somebody to sit at that intersection and wave me through if it was safe, but the whole thing sounded so stupid and self-centered, I couldn't bring myself to ask anybody to do that.

So is Sam’s KOM (now 2nd place) bullshit? Fake ride?

Sam has the KOM on one segment, Lionel has the KOM on others. This is not unusual to have on long segments, especially mountain ones.

For my own sake, a few years ago I created a segment up Lemmon that I thought of as most of the mountain. It is from mile 0 to the first "peak." Lionel has this one. The only difference between this one and "Mt Lemmon" is the one I created didn't have any of that flat road at the bottom between the Snyder stop sign and "mile 0."

https://www.strava.com/...01656?filter=overall

For those that don't know, Mt Lemmon climbs for roughly 20.5 miles before descending (a real descent, you can easily hit 40+ mph) about 1.5-2mimi back below 8000ft, then it climbs again for another 1-1.5mi getting back up around 8000ft before descending into Summerhaven (a small town composed mainly of mountain cabins and a few stores, including the cookie cabin). As you are making this descent into Summerhaven, you have the opportunity to turn right and go up towards "Sky Valley," which is the skiing area of Mt Lemmon (it's actually the southernmost ski resort, period). There is a large restaurant located at "Ski Valley" and a Forest Service gate, which is usually down in the winter because there is too much snow to go further. If, however, the gate is up you can proceed upwards further towards "Sky Center," where you will eventually not be able to ride any further as you will have come to a chain link fence that contains the observatory area (a bunch of telescopes and a research type center). You will be just above 9000ft and at the top of the mountain.

No, some idiot on Strava just thought it was

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Thanks for clarifying.
Seems Phil Gaimons segment is the most ‘coveted’ segment so I’m good with that as the benchmark.
Full Lemmon all the way to ski lifts was like a side note lol

Yeah, I just unfollowed Sam on Strava. I like the way Sanders and Gaimon banter on Strava, but Sam just seemed kinda whiney. I'm definitely not a fan.

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https://www.strava.com/athletes/23685202

By the looks of the comments on Strava, Lionel is the one that is whining about the whole thing. Sam says good effort and Lionel sends 4 responses defending himself to the death.

Probably because The Big Unit hopped on insta right away proclaiming Lionel had "swung and missed" on "the" KOM. (Lionel was going after a longer, much harder segment that was 20+ minutes longer, and STILL only missed Sam's by 5 seconds).

And then had his girlfriend slide into Lionel's Strava comments and continue the charade.

he said more than just good effort:


Sam (BigUnit) Long
Good effort! But not quite enough.

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lol - definitely seems kind of dick. But, Lionel did miss it by 5 seconds.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

seems legit

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Agree. "The big unit" comes across as a clown in this Strava segment KOM dust up. Sam - its not hard to figure out. Identify the segment in question and give it a go. Until then, show up tomorrow for the Zwift Pro Tri Series London loop race and see what you can do.

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tinman

Lionel has always targeted the one called Mt. Lemmon Official which he got back. https://www.strava.com/...d=701123813683811957

He also took back a bunch of others.....not sure why Sam is insisting Lionel missed by 5 seconds....that's not the segment he was targeting. Sam is focused on the segment with a similar name that has a short run up to the base.

That seemed a little immature. Her Strava is set to private so nobody can see her rides but wants to jump on Strava and give Lionel shit.

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http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

Hey all,

I guess I'm back on here. Although, frankly, rather reluctantly this time. I suppose I’m here to clarify my point of view and what I see as facts. I see a lot of “emotional” arguments being made and would prefer if we stuck to logic.

Before I dive in, I want to say that I respect Lionel Sanders to the highest degree. He has been one of my idols in this sport--like many of you. In fact, I started this whole challenge with the mindset “how close can I get to Lionel’s time”. I have been beaten by him many times. I don’t think he or I would want this mess that many are making it into. Keep that in mind. It is two competitive athletes going after it in a time where there is no racing. Ultimately, we are both doing it for fun. Many of us have a lot of frustrations in this difficult time and no outlet.

I want to make a few points about mine and Lionel’s effort and the segments

To argue that the “Mt. Lemmon Official” segment is the only one Lionel is going after is ludicrous. If you look at the segment titled “Snyder 4-way to mile 0” you can see that Lionel averaged 397 watts for that segment. I must go a step further because some will most likely say that it was Lionel preparing for the main segment and that he wasn’t trying there. Well, Lionel averaged 388 watts for Mt. Lemmon. In other words, he did this segment at the start (from Snyder!) at a higher effort than he averaged for the whole climb Gotta love a cyclist who (To quote Talbot) would start going hard a mile early? A power meter does not lie. In general, everyone goes after both and in all instances but this one when someone has gotten one, they have gotten both.Below I'll present a few more facts on the validity of the Mt. Lemmon Segment as opposed to The Mt. Lemmon Official Segment
A) Further evidence of this is that Lionel has “Mt. Lemmon” as a starred segment on his Strava
B) Further validity to the “Mt. Lemmon” segment being the more official one is that only 109 people have the one starred that is titled “Mt. Lemmon official” while 1,100 people have the one titled “Mt. Lemmon” starred. This is the one that starts at Snyder…I’ll also put this out there: anyone can make a segment in Strava and title it whatever they want. Just because one ends in the word “official” does not make it so. The “Mt. Lemmon” segment is also the older segment.
C) To quote Lionel in his last video he said: "No one knows which one is official and which one isn't". if Lionel admits that himself surely, he would go after both and not just one.
D) The road is not flat starting at Snyder. Do not mistake flatter for flat.
E) Of course more people have completed the Mt. Lemmon Official segment. This is common sense: any segment that falls within a larger segment will have more people who have completed it.

I also want to address that I didn’t create any of these segments. I simply went after the one where (most) everyone else has started and ended. I may or may not agree that having it start right after a stop sign is right but it’s the way it is. I would also enjoy it if the climb that people compare themselves by went truly to the top but as almost no one competes at that segment I didn’t bother (Nor did Phil!). To further exemplify this point people could also run an extra 8k after an IM to make a 50K which is more legit, yet no one does that? Heck, I would love it if it was a rule that you had to ride at least 100 miles before starting the climb to make it a real tough man's race. Now, that would make it fun.

I’ll end by saying this. I foresaw this mess happening when I knew I had the fitness to go after the KOM (I also paced the Mt. Lemmon segment in such a way to bank time early to get the “Mt. Lemmon" segment). I reached out to Lionel to do a pursuit style race (with no drafting and staying 6 feet apart at all times for safety related to Corona) and this would decide who the King of Mt. Lemmon was--conditions and all the other variables aside. He accepted at first and then later declined (reasons stated were Corona and likely smartly so). I feel the goal posts are getting changed on me when what I did was play the game.

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Sam Long
AKA The BigUnit
IG: @samgolong

Sam,

This is just a bunch of bored people being bored.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I nominate Phil’s Retirement Episode as the real segment.

Discuss

Sam you're just on the wrong side of a bunch of Lionel fanboys, most of which didn't know who he was until he hired a videographer to be his hype man a few years ago. You have the KOM, keep ripping it up and being authentic.

Sam - sadly you're learning why so many pros/coaches/etc no longer post here, including Lionel.

Fuck....while all you bicker I'm flying over in a P100 to take this shit myself.





Sam is stronger than Lionel. There are some other stronger triathletes. There are about 2 dozen climbers in the domestic US who could take that from them. What is the nut sucking going on with certain triathletes (or Lionel I suppose more specifically) FFS.

Sam is stronger. Not rocket science. Throw in bike skills and Sam ends up at the end of the course and LS ends up crashing out.

You obviously don't like Lionel, who was known long before Talbot came into the scene, and that's fine. Mt. Lemmon has a bunch of segments that could be considered "key." Sam has one of them.

You think there are 24 faster domestic pros that could take that?

Most of the domestic pros have ridden Lemmon before, it's hallowed training ground for camps.

Yes.

I'm not sure I agree. But we will never know.

I think there are definitely a few, but when you say "domestic pros" you change the quality of competition quite significantly.

Now, if you go over to Gates Pass (west side) or A-Mountain then the answer changes significantly. Lemmon is an effort that is basically designed to favor triathletes over roadies.