aerogeeks is just as bad. nothing they review is bad. NOTHING. i called them out on instagram and got a bunch of bullcrap saying they only choose to review products they know they can promote to the public. riiiiiiiight.

---

80/20 Endurance Ambassador

I second the hypocrisy of 'reviews' from people who are trying to get free gear or make money. Shoe reviewers/influencers are the worst. They'll give mild comments but hide it behind positives. I can't even begin to tell you how many shoes I've tried and hated... then go back to the review and can't believe how much they missed or just left out on purpose.


**And on the flip side, open reviews of products online (i.e. on Yelp, Amazon, etc.) can't be trusted either since its typically the people who have a problem with a product that have enough passion to actually write a review.

In a different industry, in a past hobby life, I wrote for an "online magazine" for this hobby. I received an item for review, and thoroughly tested it. The item SUCKED. I wrote my review, and submitted it to the publisher. Instead of publishing the review right away, the publisher actually scheduled a weekend trip to my home to confirm my review. This guy flew across the country to verify my opinion of this item. He confirmed this particular thing was truly terrible. He edited my review to soften it a bit, but the message was clear: this really wasn't a good item (it was an attempt to use a particular type of thing in an application that was inappropriate... somewhat akin to trying to shoehorn disc brakes onto a frame not designed for them).

He then published this review, with an editor's note at the top stating that not only was this my opinion, he confirmed this by taking a weekend flight across the country to confirm what I was writing.

End result?

We got sued by the manufacturer.

After a long fight that almost ended up in court, the publisher quietly pulled the review and made it go away. The suit was a typical rant from an unhinged individual questioning my methods, my credentials, everything. Nothing about the scientific points I presented explaining why this particular device could never work in this application. I ended up getting emails from a number of people that managed to read my review who supported my position (as they tested the item themselves and agreed with me). In any case, my point with this story is that I would consider any "published review" of something like a bike to mean "yea it's good" and if you DON'T see a professionally published review of something you are considering, to take that to mean it was reviewed, but not favorably, and therefore quietly buried.

I don't know about bikes, but pinkbike savaged the Enve M735E wheel. Though to be fair it almost seemed like Enve was trying to literally kill the reviewer. Maybe that's what it takes. ")

Bike radar occasionally gives out 1- or 2-star (out of 5) ratings. Scores below 3.0 are rare, especially for bikes. But they happen.

---

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

Does Kiley count???

Honestly, no....and that kinda sucks, but I think you can probably also read between the lines a bit of things that might be characterized as weaknesses or cons and be able to infer that those aspects are probably far worse than as written.

James Huang, currently of CyclingTips.com, is not known for pulling his punches. (He has the nickname of Angry Asian.) If he rates something as being good I'm prepared to believe him.

Hambini

Agreed. He did one of the few reviews of the felt fr1 road bike a few years back. He basically said great bike, poor rear brake. He was quite disappointed by the rear chainstay brake performance, and felt even sent him an ee brake to replace it. He spent a lot of time on the issue. Maybe too much, and i think he really disliked chainstay brakes.

I eventually bought the same bike frame, but with ee brakes (and sram etap)... and it was fantastic. The braking in the rear was great. But i also use jagwire elite sealed cables, and my rims are laterally stiff.

Either way, i kind of take all reviews with a grain of salt. Setup is a big part of any system.

Does it fit?
Will it meet my needs?
Can i afford it?
Is the bike built with quality?
Does is look hot?

Generally the rest sorts itself out. Bikes are not that complex.

  

The was a bicycle magazine (back when paper existed), Road Bike Review or something like that. Not the current website Road Bike review. They really disliked Kestrel bikes and dumped all over them.


Tom Demerly of Bikesport Michigan had some critical reviews. He slammed the Litespeed Blade.


.

---

Once, I was fast. But I got over it.

Ray (DC Rainmaker) seems pretty straight-up with his reviews. Off the top of my head, his review of the Shimano R9100P power meter was pretty "meh".

This was a good one of the R-Sys wheels. Again, trying to kill the reviewer makes it hard to find anything good to say.

I did a running shoe review for a magazine once and they edited out everything negative that I said (which on one set of shoes was quite a lot).

Not from a publication. This is why I come to slowtwitch.

---

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

what kind of bike would you like to buy? i'm happy (well, not happy, but willing) to tell you what's wrong with the bikes that you might buy, including the "wrongs" committed by our partners. to their possible chagrin ;-/

they aren't anything that i haven't written and won't write in the reviews themselves. further, if you go over to dcrainmaker you'll find all kinds of negatives written.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I think part of it comes down to a sliding scale of expectations, mixed with that generally, things aren't outright crap.

For example, I see this *routinely* when watching camera lens reviews. People will buy a top end $1800 or $2400 lens, do some simple 'tests' like how quickly and accurately it focuses, if it's sharp, etc. And then surprise, it does well, so they tout it. But of course a $2400 lens should be sharp and focus correctly, this isn't some amazing success. That's not exactly impressive.

Back on topic, I see the same thing with cycling gear. People will test some $250 bibs or $3000 groupset and then wax poetic about how good it is, and of course it is, it's the high end of the market. I'd love to see reviewers talk from that perspective: "Yes, it's very very good overall, but here's what's little and annoying us on a day to day basis."

It's subtle, but just some thoughts. It's not hard to buy something that's ultra upper end and then talk about how good it is.

---

JustinDoesTriathlon

Owner, FuelRodz Endurance.

I have been around bikes for 35 plus years. Truth is, from BMX - Mountain bike- Road bike- Tri bike, I have only had a few bad parts. This was out of probably the 40 bikes I have probably owned over the years. Most of the stuff is good if you know how to ride. Essentially, realize you have knees and elbows and don’t run into shit like a Mac truck.

I have never had entry, entry, low end stuff in fairness. 105 level and up is truthfully good enough for anyone.

very good point. he and both mr llama seem to be very honest in their reviews.

---

80/20 Endurance Ambassador

so, like, same as choosing a wife I guess?

Except you might want to add: "Will I still want to ride it in ten years" to the list.


All kidding aside... I'll agree with the others above that DCrainmaker is one of the best and most honest reviewers I've come across. I have no doubt that Garmin has a love/hate relationship with Ray as he has always been brutally honest (both good and bad) about their products.

Exactly, you are much more likely to hear the bad stuff, especially the stuff that would tend to show up after a few months of use, on a forum like this. Sometimes if I am looking for comments about an item on slowtwitch, I'll get more accurate results by using a google search.
So for example "HED Disc Slowtwitch" in google..

Zing, good one.

They key to a good review is to balance pros and cons. That is why structured, balanced reviews are good imho. I want to know pros and cons, and then use those to evaluate my own priorities.

This is somewhat what I'm getting at. My issue is this- I have x dollars to spend on a bike. There are four or five that I am considering in that price range. Yes, I know that they are all good- but which ones had flaws, how do they compare to each other. All of these reviewers have access to all the bikes, and may or may not have preferences amongst them. Can you rank them? Say that they are similar? Or give any insight to how they stack up?

---

http://www.savagesentiments.blogspot.com/
http://www.tricoachmartin.com/
https://www.facebook.com/teameverymanjack

Besides product "flaws" (wich honestly should be beyond product reviews), how do you know if you would automatically prefer the "best" bike on paper (reviews) ?

Yeah, reviews aren't very helpful generally. There is no golden rule.

I remember one helpful article wrote by Hunter Allen on his Cyfac Gothica bike. He described the bike as :
-not his stiffest, liveliest, not the most stable, etc. he ever had,
- Far from being the lightest either,
- But it was the bike that gave him the best times on hilly segments, with the lowest avg.power.
He also though it was generally very comfortable to ride, if I remember the main ideas.

You can also "adapt" any review, to your needs and whatever deal comes up. The brain is a wonderful thing.
Look at Rocketracing, he's happy with a crappy designed frameset, wich has very poor rear braking power, even with EEBrake, but he's happy with it. He found a good review, scored the frame, and obliterated the frame's major defect.

From Cyclingtips's review:

Louis :-)

Tom D! I wonder what he’s up to these days.

One problem is that one rider's "responsive" is another rider's "twitchy", while another's "stable" is another's "unresponsive". So unless your personal preferences line up exactly with the reviewer's, you may have an entirely different experience with the same bike.

Also, there is the expectations of the reviewer. Several years ago, Road Bike Action reviewed a bike that I helped design. Overall the review was pretty positive, except the reviewer kept bringing up the geometry, specifically how it fit. There were several comments about the "tall 165mm head tube, which is on average 10 to 15mm longer than similarly sized models from other brands" and how this made the bike less suitable for racing. This bike was designed to compete against the Specialized Roubaix and Cannondale Synapse, both of which at that time also had 165mm head tubes on their 54cm models. If you were looking for something like a Tarmac or SuperSix, they had a point, but not if you were looking for an alternative to a Synapse or Roubaix...

---

"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

Not sure about bikes, but Guitar World's review of 'Eat em & Smile', David Lee Roth's first album after leaving Van Halen was pretty unkind.

Along those lines, the worst review I ever saw was one for Paul McCartney's movie "Give My Regards To Broad Street", which consisted of one sentence: "You don't have to play this movie backwards to know that Paul is dead..."

---

"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

But do they review everything?

Cervelo S5 Etap disc.

Thank you!

I'll have to find that, because it sounds odd they'd pan it, given the love for Steve Vai & Billy Sheehan

Then again, they did put that pic of Jeff Beck & the pink Jackson on the cover

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Hunter Thompson gave a pretty poor review of Nixon when he wrote his eulogy:

Richard Nixon is gone now, and I am poorer for it. He was the real thing -- a political monster straight out of Grendel and a very dangerous enemy.

Nixon had the unique ability to make his enemies seem honorable...

My mother hates Nixon, my son hates Nixon, I hate Nixon, and this hatred has brought us together.

If the right people had been in charge of Nixon's funeral, his casket would have been launched into one of those open-sewage canals that empty into the ocean just south of Los Angeles.

By disgracing and degrading the Presidency of the United States, by fleeing the White House like a diseased cur, Richard Nixon broke the heart of the American Dream.

pads don't adjust as fully as do the pads of the P3X. specifically, there's a limit to the width adjustment. so, before you buy this bike, make sure the pads adjust wide enough for you. if they do, you're good, brilliant bike. if they don't, then you have 3 options:

1. learn to ride with the adjustment in the pads;
2. swap in the front end of the P3X (it'll go into the P5D;
3. get another bike. or, i guess:
4. don't get a bike. take up badminton.

that is the one potential negative of this bike. otherwise, i found it a pretty dreamy bike to ride; adjustable in every other parameter; fast, handles well, good geometry; pretty easy to work on and travel with. its only other problem is it costs a lot. it's not a bad value proposition, just, like an audi or a range rover it just isn't an inexpensive purchase.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

 
Thank you.

is that a review of the p5 or s5?

P5Disc. If I say pads in that context I mean armpads.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

On a similar note I recall a major UK music mag reviewing the The Smith's latest single "Stop me if you've heard this one before" with a one word review "STOP"! Classic I thought.

I'll go a step further, best everything from everyone. I always get a kick out of my original Normatec review in 2016, I was the only that called the obvious flaw in the design and function of the battery in each and every unit, not a flaw in just some. I read 25+ other reviews, watched a bunch, not a single mention of it - did they even review it or did Normatec write it and they just posted it. And when Normatec finally fixed the issue, I changed the review to reflect that. And in this case, I went a step further and talked with Normatec about it and complained about it to the top of company as soon as I could.

Fwiw, I have tried to do a decent job of being as authentic as I can if I use the word best, which I have, and I usually try to put some context around it, like best aero budget wheelset, best cheap cycling desk, best cheap sunglasses. And when I write that I believe it too and I am happy to rewrite or modify the review if I find something I do believe is better.


If you are buying a big brand bike, go with Trek or Cervelo, skip the rest. If you are going with a boutique, buy a Dimond or TriRig.

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

When I read reviews, I generally like to stick with the objective facts rather than the subjective feedback from the reviewer. If the review is simply subjective...I barely even bother with it.

For bikes, I understand that it's hard to get excited about a bike if all you do is list the objective facts as compared to say a Garmin bike computer. People like the terms stiff, compliant, integrated, aero, responsive, nimble, comfortable, sleek, blah, blah, blah.

I would much rather prefer a bike reviewer just do the following.

• Provide the complete bike weight, frame weight and weight of any proprietary parts that can't be swapped out
• Tell me what type of carbon is used, and what the layup process is. Not that I would know the difference, but it's a more factual description than stiff, compliant, etc.
• Full spec sheet for drivetrain, bearings, stem, saddle, bars, tape, cables, etc.
• Differences in crank arm, bar width, and stem lengths for eacy size bike
• Full geometry specs
• Actual measurement of space at the fork and stays for tire clearance. 38 mm clearance at the stays and 42 mm clearance at the fork is much more helpful than "most 28 mm tires and some 30 mm tires will fit with plenty of room."
• How are the cables routed
• QR or what type of axles used if it's a disc brake bike
• Any type of aero data done by an independent tester

Then have the reviewer ride the bike for a period of time, and just report back if it rode like a normal bike or not. That parts were not rattling, the seat post wasn't slipping, or the bottom bracket wasn't making some annoying noises. Give me that type of review on all the bikes coming out this year and going forward and I can make a pretty good judgement for myself on how to compare bikes based on the features I value.

I think DC Rainmaker (and people similar to him) get a lot of praise for their reviews because they stick to the objective facts, and then compare those facts with other brands that compete with the product they are reviewing. That way it's much easier to draw simple subjective conclusions on what is better, or has more value based on what key features matter to you. Granted, electronic devices are much easier to be objective with when listing out specs and performance. I can objectively tell you how long it took before a battery died, or how long it took a unit to gain GPS signal compared to another unit turned on at the same time. Or show the GPS map of what the unit recorded as compared to the actual road or trail that was ridden on.

But even with things like golf clubs...a lot of reviews by golf publications will be subjective or seem objective with no way to prove it. Terms like longer, more forgiving, better feel, higher launch, less spin, lower center of gravity, blah, blah, blah. When in reality, it's not that hard to take these clubs to that robotic hitting machine and hooking it up to a $20k launch monitor. Hit 50 balls dead center on the face, 50 on the toe, 50 on the heel, 50 low on the face, and 50 high on the face. Then display all the average stats in terms of ball speed, launch angle, spin, side spin, carry distance, total distance, and distance L/R from the target line. Now compare that to all the data on the other clubs released this year and in the past. Simple right...but not sexy when it turns out that there is less than a 1% difference in performance between all current clubs or clubs that came out last year. Those type of reviews don't get readers excited to read your review, nor do they sell clubs. The people that do these types of reviews are not motivated by club sales or sponsorship.

Shame, I was asking about the S5 and thought you were referring to the brake pads.

It's a problem for consumers. I think it gets magnified with direct to consumer transactions where the consumer might not deal with anybody except the company who creates the marketing message. I think educated consumers can hopefully sift through the information and find sources that are non-biased like you did here.

Any publication that has revenue from bike ads has a conflict to think about before they publish a negative review. I'm not an expert on the bike industry but I think they have probably some of the biggest ad budgets since they are the high end of product price. This does kind of stink for the consumer. And bloggers who accept product or even discounts in exchange for a review have a similar issue.

I think DCRainmaker is very public that he does not accept free product he either buys it himself or if folks send him items to review he returns them after the review. Right? He says that at the start of all his big reviews. I think he's an exception because he has a strong reputation for his detailed reviews. People rely on his information and he does a good job. If he was to put out an overly positive review his readers would call him out.

I don't review bikes on my blog but even a small blog like mine will get products sent in exchange for reviews. I say from my personal experience that the companies really only want you to say good things. I personally stopped accepting free product for review after I was asked to review a product that I just didn't like and the whole experience felt ... icky. The flip side to that is that if you only ever say good things then I feel like the reviews are pretty much worthless to the readers. If you say negative things the companies may not want to work with you anymore. The story above where a brand sued a publication is a little crazy but probably not that unusual. In a totally different industry I know that Consumer Reports which is all reviews has had issues with this. Which is again not great for a consumer looking for a non-biased review. We want to know if something doesn't work before we buy it.

I would extend this to include brand ambassadors - their role is to partly to say good things about the brand. The whole concept of brand ambassadors is based around the human nature that we are more likely to trust a referral from another person. There's nothing wrong with this but if you are looking for a non-biased opinion of something it's perhaps a good idea to try to find a neutral source...I think that can be hard to find sometimes especially if you are new to a market/community.

I even see this in forums and facebook groups. A person post a question like: hey what are your favorite tri shorts? They are looking for opinions. A big chunk of the responses might be from ambassadors. They aren't being dishonest - they are ambassadors for the product because they love it. From the company's point of view it's great grassroots marketing. For the prospective client looking for a neutral review ... it's not always helpful. For something like tri shorts it's really all opinion so not a huge deal. But a few years ago there was a clothing line who just was not delivering product and that's a time where an honest review like, hey I paid 6 months ago and still have no trisuit is helpful to the next buyer. In an extreme case if somebody tries to say something negative about a product they can get even flamed by a group of passionate ambassadors. That can be entertaining ... again not really helpful.

I've gone on too long ... but those are some of my thoughts.

sorry about that. bad reading on my part. i think cervelo has really dialed in its road bikes. the earlier carbon bikers were ultra stiff. but in recent years there's been a craftsmanship to the frames. to the ride quality. but...

i have a concern about integrated front ends. many of them are either simply one-piece - not adjustable at all - or they're aero with changeable stems but in fact those stems don't get changed because the internal routing is so complex that the shop and the user just say fudge it, and leave a bad fitting stem in there.

the handlebar on this bike can be raised, and there are lengths from 90mm to 130mm. what i find from a lot of dealers - of cervelo, cannondale, specialized - is that their aero road bars are made with stems built in various lengths and pitches, but that they don't carry those stems. which to me is mind boggling. facepalming. malpractice. this invites consumer direct as a sales channel.

bottom line, this is a great bike, but it's freak luck if the bike comes as spec'd sized correctly for you. consider what this bike is going to look like if you have pedestals that need to be added or removed, and consider what the process is for changing a stem length.

and finally, you need to have your positioned known to web x/y. the web of your hand, where it hits the brifter when in the hoods position. what i use as a "tool" for this is an elastic speedlace with a lace lock. i wrap this around both hoods, span it from one hood to the other, on the web contact point and the underside of the lever. then i measure from the plumb line to the BB straight out to the web x/y center (straight out the centerline of the bike). you need to know that distance, for you, that describes your bike position. then figure out what your S5 config needs to be to give you that.

if your shop doesn't know this, can't know this, isn't willing to know this, then you need to decide whether it's all worth the hassle. cervelo has done a fantastic job of making sure its tri bikes fit you - of putting that functionality on its website. i've been trying, so far not with much success, to get road bike makers to recognize that their bikes need to have a coherent sizing scheme. we have a tri bike help thread on this forum, for cervelo. perhaps we can get this very question answered, from cervelo, and we can incorporate this into our cervelo fit help thread.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

German magazine "Tour" has very in depth and honest reviews.

EDIT: They used to have an online english version, but I can't find it now.

DC Rainmaker's reviews are pretty straightforward and unbiased.

That said, by the time the stuff gets to market, most of the stuff that's tested IS pretty good, to the extent it does what it was designed and marketed to do. Other than some long term issues that are unlikely to show up in a review, most of the low hanging fruit has been pruned away, and generally speaking, most stuff being produced that's likely to be reviewed in a magazine does exactly what it's supposed to do, and more or less, does it very well.

Bear in mind that not everything was designed to be the fastest, the most technologically advanced, the lightest, or the most sophisticated...a lot of stuff is designed to come in at a price point, compete with another company's big seller, or appeal to the vast majority of purchasers, who are NOT passionate cyclists or triathletes. Trek's low end mountain bikes come to mind, most of the ones I've seen at friends' houses weren't purchased to do trail riding of any kind...they were purchased because "Trek makes really nice bikes" and "Mountain bikes are more comfortable to ride than road bikes, because of the shocks." They're ridden maybe 100 miles a year, on paved roads in the suburbs, then disposed of on Craigslist a few years later when room is needed in the garage.

I do think that many of the "glowing" reviews are the result of not wanting to piss off advertisers, but you also have to bear in mind, most reviewers are pretty passionate enthusiasts, and their mindset going into a review is probably favorably inclined toward the product, since they're probably excited on some level to be getting the first chance to play with it.

Although a bit old, very appropriate for the thread.

https://tomdemerly.com/...i-lied-for-39-years/

Worse are the reviews that seem copy-pasted right from the manuafacturer - typically for electronics. You know the ones: super short, posted on launch day, and almost word for word exactly the same as other reviewers without much originality or sense that the person has actually used this item.

I'll take a review posted months after launch over one posted on launch date any day. (Though obviously there are sites that post on launch day with reviewers getting advance loaners, DCR chief among them)

Bicycle Quarterly. The home of Jan Heine, wider tires, and all road bikes. He and his fellow testers write reviews that are critical and well thought out. Great for gravel and long distance riding. Not much meat for the time trial crowd, however.

Wow. Great story.

---

___________________________________________________

http://www.tricoachmartin.com

Not a publication, but I can guarantee that NO lockmaker wants their locks reviewed by youtube's lockpickinglawyer.

If your product shows up in his (many) videos, you are doomed!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut1_yBDo1rE