Yeah I noticed the same thing, no video yet. I personally think that's a good thing. I feel he was not ready and still emotional last year to give that interview. I think it makes more sense for him to let the emotions simmer down, and do a proper post race analysis and then see what his next steps are.

My take on this year's race, he was off on the day. His fitness at least bike wise was really good, I mean he smashed the bike course record in Tremblant and was still not at peak fitness. His watts increased considerably between Tremblant and Kona,, but he wasn't able to attack on the bike. To me it's an indication he was off on the day.

As well, based on his comments after Augusta 70.3, he said the run was a lot more labored than he would have liked, an indication his run fitness was not at it's peak.

Lastly, I'm still not sure he nailed his taper, I think doing the 70.3 was not the best idea. Not because it put fatigue in the system, but because he tapered into the race, did a mini ramp back up and then back down, not the taper I used to do anyhow, peaking 3 - 4 weeks out on intensity and volume and then steadily ramping down.

My humble 2 cents.

I am waiting for the video though as well, but I think it's good that he takes time to think about what he wants to say.

I really like LS and his viewpoint on himself. I’m super hard on myself too in certain aspects of life, including triathlon, but I think it makes me strive to be better.

I don’t have a coach and I tinkered with my bike and aero without a fitter and it resonates for me him talking about the journey.

I was impressed hearing his few words at Augusta and hope he comments on this race too as the guy is hilarious. Such a grim voice sometimes when talking about himself, but so upbeat on everyone else.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

His bike was off because he couldn't leave the group with Cam, Boris, Sebi, Høgen and Skippy behind?

I thought his bike was off too. I was following all the bike splits. If I remember correctly, he was behind Wurf and Sebi when they started the bike. He surged early on to be right behind Sebi. Eventually it was Wurf, Sebi, then Sanders. I thought they would catch the front group.

Then at least 3 or more cyclists put themselves between Sebi and Sanders. If he was on, I didn’t think he would lose any spots. I thought something was wrong with Sanders, and he would slowly keep dropping. But he managed to keep up on the bike and maybe gained a spot back.

I was hopeful he would have a good run despite having concerns about his bike leg. There was a moment very early in the run that he caught up to Sebi, but at the next time check his pace was falling off drastically. He eventually got passed by Wurf on the run, and I knew the question was now whether or not he would even finish.

Just my guess but last year's video came out so quick because there was a lot of expectations on him after finishing 2nd, and he was very public with his training BALLS TO THE WALL. So, with those expectations and the journey he took us on, i'd guess that's why he had one out quick.

Secondly, it could be that golf is that much fun that he did it not just Sunday and Monday (as he stated in his IG video), but Tuesday and Wednesday too... LOL

I don't think his bike was "off," I think many more guys were "on." Lionel hit T2 at exactly the same time as he did in 2017. To the second! Difference was there were 7 guys ahead of him this time, not just one. Wurf said in the post-race press conference,that he realized, after struggling to close the gap on the bike leg, "...it's not going to be like it's been here for me before. Everyone's just upped their [bike] game and taken that away from me." The same applies to Lionel. His biggest weapon, his bike leg, isn't as effective against the competition as it used to be.

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

My take on this year's race, he was off on the day.

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No way was it an off day, it was exactly about what he should have gotten when you break yourself in training. You don't get to have the race of your life when you have the type of injuries he sustained this year. So by that I mean when you can't properly prepare, you have to then change your expectations/desire if your being real about the situation. I thought it was a great day for him, for where he was this year.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Not disagreeing with you -- as I am glad that he was just back and had some bright spots -- but how did Lionel's prep/season differ drastically from TO's season?

I actually thought (and hoped) that Sanders would have a home run type of day -- great ability + solid training + not being overcooked would = a fabulous race.

Again, there were bright spots, but I'm sure not what he hoped for deep down inside. And not what I was pulling for. When he was stride-for-stride with Kienle and running well, I was really envisioning a 2nd place. Even after the fade started, I thought top-10 was very realistic and would be encouraging. Then the wheels came off. I'm not sure how to account for that.

Ray

what was TO's injury again? Was it the same, i knew he had said in the interview his run was very limited in the weeks leading up to the race. I dont remember it being to the level of LS's, but to likely LS's media savy credit, I dont hear much about TO in the first place.

TOD has been racing since June
LS raced late August?


Again if your telling me it looked like LS was there and then wasn't at the end of the race, I can logically understand why. He likely didn't have the fitness he needed. There are some injuries that are going to truly set you back and then there are some you can manage around etc.

Being injured but able to race since June...sounds to me like it was an easier injury to deal with than an injury that shuts down most of your season; which is what LS had. Maybe TO had the same injury but different time frame; which also is important.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Sebastian Kienle stated in the post race conference that he tried on a couple of occasions to contribute some work at the front of their group on the bike. Wurf however kept coming around and leading. I can appreciate that Wurf is probably the strongest rider of the group but I can’t help but think the group would have benefited from him sitting in for a couple of rotations.

One major difference is "One month." TO got injured in March and LS did in April. I'm not sure how long TO was out, but LS missed a huge window of training and got into the game a little too late. I was surprised to see he got the Kona slot and also won in Augusta. Considering injury, I think he did pretty well. After all, he came in right after Brownlee.

I haven't see any video of Sanders on the run, but Wurf said that when those two went past him, Lionel was already limping ("hitching?") pretty bad and that he was certain that Lionel would come back to him.



I thought it was a good performance for Lionel, given his early season injury and how late in the year he had to qualify. I really didn't expect him to be able to close the run at Kona this year; not surprised he faded. But the run is where it would seem he needs to focus. Going forward, I don't see a 2:50 marathon winning this race very often, if ever....especially if you're a 3rd pack swimmer.

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

TO was also aqua jogging A LOT and AlterG treadmill running this year. The same as Kienle in 2015, before Kienle went on to Win Kona that same year. Didn't see Lionel doing any aqua running or AlterG running in his social media. Perhaps the injury did not allow for it.

TO has a coach.

Not just a coach but Julie Dibbens who he has known for several years and worked with for the past 2-3 years?

TO had at least 2-3 injuries/set backs. I know in 2018 he broke his foot. In march of 2019 he wrecked his bike (not sure if any real bad injuries came from it) and then he rolled his foot over and re-broke his foot leading up to Kona. Don't remember if there was anything else.

We have a Lionel thread...

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Too many in fact.

Then don’t read them.

F-I-V-E D-A-Y-S P-O-S-T K-O-N-A AND N-O L-I-O-N-E-L V-I-D-E-O !-!-!-! I'm melting! Melting! Oh, what a world!

I hear ya, although I think it's a good thing. I'm just worried the guy is in a really depressed mood, he needs to take the race in context, given the injury and his comeback. I think he should do Zona to qualify for next year and get that out of the way

There's zero reason to do AZ, he won't qualify.

Am I a hater? Not at all...it's women only. haha

The unfortunate part for the men is Florida is the men's only race - which is 3 weeks earlier. So Cozumel might be on fire as far as the men's field goes.

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

Thanks for the clarification, sorry did not check. ;-)

Cozumel works much better timing wise, I think Sebi talked about doing that race, in his post race interview did he not? I think you are right, Cozumel will have lots of big names trying to nab their Kona slot.

Sanders is on the starting list of Los Cabos 70.3 November 3rd as well TO and Rinny!

How many slots for Cozumel?

What about Argentina?

If a lot of pros ai to qualify early and they only have so many spots, what happens then if they don't get the slot. Race again in the spring or summer?

At some point in time I feel that a bigger name will not be able to qualify though they try.

What would happen to Lionel if he failed to qualify for Kona next year?

I got the interview last night. I am half way done editing it. But I have to go get a coffee (Pumpkin spice nitro) and then get a haircut, after go to lulu lemon and then I will finish editing it and upload it. lol

sorry for the delay! I needed some me time! hahah

The big names with qualify because there's a reason they're big names. Lionel cut it close this year due to his injury.

If an on-the-bubble pro is looking to qualify it would make sense to go with Florida since it's so close to Kona.

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Strava

Ironman Cozumel likely to only have 1 pro spot... for the record Sebi already has his spot for Hawaii 2020 only needs to finish the race!
Ironman Argentina 3 spots since it's a championship race...

If he doesn't qualify well he will be watching the race sidelines like some did this year, that simple!

Pro race in Argentina was cancelled because finance laws don't allow them to pay out. Money and slots went to Cozumel (I think)

Thanks for the update that should make it more interesting if this is the case!

3 slots for men and 3 slots for women pros at Cozumel.

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------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com

Thanks for the update Talbot! Much appreciated.

Where did you see that?

pro start lists are here - https://www.ironman.com/...nts/start-lists.aspx

los cabos 70.3 - https://www.ironman.com/...3%20start%20list.pdf

Ah, Thanks!

Picking yourself up some new yoga pants?

Bueller? Bueller? .... Bueller? I guess there wasn't enough "turbo" in that PSL ;)

Sorry the chick that cut my hair was hot. We ended up going to dinner. ;) No the video is up loading now. Erin is going to watch it and then hit post. maybe 15 mins :)

Thank you!! Glad to hear from LS it's all good. It's important to have some down time with family.
I keep refreshing Lionel's channel now.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B3xAOuGlJfL/

video will be live here in about 20 mins

Video is private - such a tease...

You can't FIRST you're own video! The election is rigged!! ;)

Yeah I can.....

How do you think trump won the election. ;)

This is the biggiest...I mean people are talking, people are telling me, this is the biggest post race video ever made. It's huge. Nothing like it has ever been done.

Does the word "void" equate to "coach"?

Lol. I thought it was pretty telling that he can't even bring himself to say that (or at least elects not to use it).
Also, was the year he got 2nd in Kona not a hot year? (is there really such a thing in Kona?) He seems to discount that performance in his self-reflection. I wondered if that was more because of his then relationship with DTD and not wanting to acknowledge it 🤷‍♂️

Talbot getting his BWG on before finishing the editing

So no volunteer was handing out the water at the 100 mile aid station when pros came through? Wow.

I'm a big Lionel fanboy, but I don't quite get this one.

How the hell could he have missed hydration with so many races under the belt!

May be there was something else, like he pushed too hard for the level of liquids/nutrition that he was planning to consume.

massive rookie mistake. I can understand maybe getting behind on hydration/nutrition but he clearly realized that coming into the aid station at the end of the bike and didn't make it a priority to get back on track. I guess it could have just been the actual mental fog that was setting in at that point.

The opposite. LS said in this video this was his easiest bike. He said he avi'd 290W for the ride which was easier than prior efforts. So as a result, it sounds like he took in less fluids. It also sounds like he just didn't have a set nutrition plan because in the past it hasn't been an issue.

It's ridiculously clear the man needs to humble himself and get a fucking Coach!!! T.O. probably doesn't finish second without Julie Dibens and the team he's assembled around him. Lionel's team is Erin and and occasional correspondence with Jerry Rodriquez. So Lionel's real team is an echo chamber inside his head. And that's not good. If LS handed the reigns over to a coach full time and just worried about executing the work/nutrition/strength/recovery and following the guidance of a braintrust that his not his brain, he wouldn't have gotten injured and he could've been on the podium the last two years. Shame. Maybe it's a trust issue? Maybe a control issue?

Lionel's worst enemy is Lionel.

Yeah seems odd. I don't want to jump on the bandwagon, I think most of us love the guy and want him to do well, but he's a pro and making elementary mistakes like that. No excuse really. It's not his first rodeo. There's BOP AGers that have got this stuff dialled months before the race.

Yeah, listening to him talk about running past the T2 aid station without getting water because his hands were full seemed more about wanting to stay with the other guys in his group. 20/20 hindsight, it was probably better to give up 10sec. and grab a couple cups of water; but that's really hard to do in the heat of battle.

He seems really good at solving the individual problems he identifies (run form, swim, etc.), but triathlon has so many issues/dimensions that focus can lead to a bit of whack-a-mole if you are not careful.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

I’m having trouble understanding if this was a real mistake (not dialing the nutrition) or an excuse for two things: a. A body that has been injured and wasn’t ready for the big dance; and b. An overall training plan that is not going to cut it compared to the other pro’s

I think beating on the dead horse of whether he needs a coach is besides the point here. We all know he does. The questions are whether he has the talent of character as not to sandbag a relationship with a coach, and whether any coach would at this point spend time with him (I think some would take a flyer on Lionel but others with a very established business would probably see Lionel as a headache).

As someone said a 2:50 does not cut it for the win in Kona anymore, he’s made great gains on his swim and his bike has always been very strong, but I doubt that he can get to that sub 2:45ish that can win it considering the names that will be in the dance in the coming years (AB, Gomez, maybe Murray). It’s becoming really hard for me to see a path for Lionel to a win in Kona, coach or no coach.

I think he did ok considering he only had two real races this year. IMMT and Augusta 70.3. I’m impressed he didn’t quit, pushed through and finished it. I think he is going to have a good year in 2020. I just hope he will stay injury free. He’s such a cool dude.

He's never going to be relevant in Kona again unless he begs DTD for forgiveness or finds the same relationship with someone else. Lionel is 31, his personality is set and that personality is very very difficult to help. Davis did it and got him 2nd in Kona, that says a lot about that guy.

Up to T2 he did more than ok... did very well! I think also he will have a good 2020 too, but at this point nothing that I see in his performance combined with the trends that we’re seeing in Kona lead me to believe that he has a shot at it. What we saw on Saturday as Sutton has been saying for a very long time is the evolution of Kona to favor athletes with no weaknesses on the disciplines. Frodo and Anne are an example of it. Lionel has limiters in his swim and his run is great up to a half marathon compared to other pro’s, that’s why, objectively, I don’t see a path for him to the crown.

Agree he’s a super cool dude with good content and good for the sport.

i don't find that to be the case at all that's he's very difficult to help. he's a sponge for help. i've personally seen the input he takes, eagerly, when it comes to equipment and position (i don't have any basis for the help he may get regarding coaching, nutrition, and the like). he just chooses when and where he wants the help. if chooses to go for periods of time without a coach, then he's joined the same club of which i'm a member. maybe it's wise to be self-coached. maybe it's not. but it's just not correct to say he's difficult to help, and i know that both by personal observation, and i'm quite close to most of his sponsors and i haven't found this to be the case with the guidance provided by them. he also is either a self-taught swim savant or he absolutely got help in the swim, and followed it.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

here's the thing, doing well up to t2 is irrelevant, there are a LOT (think hundreds) of guys who can be in a position that impresses at t2 if they over swim and over ride...

Agree 100%. Since my thought that his first place will not happen.

Totally agree. He announced he will be racing 70.3 Los Cabos, 70.3 Indian Wells and then 70.3 Pucon in January 2020, so really exciting to see his performance in these next 3 races over the next 3 months. He mentioned he will take a break after that, but definitely looking forward to his next few races, from the video my feeling is he is quite keen to get back on the racecourse.

Maybe he should try a camelback ! Pink

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"There may be men that can beat me, but they are going to have to bleed to do it." Steve Prefontane

Yeah, kinda surprised he’s not doing Arizona full to go ahead and lock up Kona slot for next year. It’ll be interesting to see what full he tries to qualify at next year.

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Let food be thy medicine...

Arizona is a Women’s pro only race this year

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Team Zoot So Cal

 
I really like the guy, its transparency, his approach.

I guess he will really perform very well on these 70.3 because :
1) it is a big engine. May be not as big as Frodeno/Brownlee, but not far, similar to Wurf and other top players.
2) his training with a lot of time around FTP power (seems to me) is probably best suited to 70.3 than full IM (some intuition...)
3) much less chances to fuck up the nutrition/hydration on a 70.3

With good training, no injury, good taper, on a good day, good food/hydration, good pacing, I'm sure he can do a Kona podium again, or win with some luck.

Lol, pinkish.

I mean obviously a camelbak is a silly aero-wise way to solve the dehydration issue, but he did run a 2:54 that year.

If he runs 2:54 again this year, he takes 5th.

At a minimum, he should be a lot more deliberate with carrying hydration on his rig.

He’s got riding buddies now that he’s making second pack... so KJ/ energy expenditure wise, riding the train+ the draft effect of the group would make up for the aero cost of having an extra bottle or two onboard.

Everything he describes suggests he f’d his hydration strategy. so carry more to start and don’t miss the aid stations.

Hi Jack. I'm thinking he might pick IM Texas or IM St George as it comes back in 2020 as a full IM. The timing is good for both races and he has had good success in St. George(70.3), so I could see him coming back to race the full.

Agreed. From the recent interviews I saw, Lionel mentioned how he missed racing and wants to race more often(70.3), these 3 upcoming races if they go as Augusta 70.3 went for him recently will give a good boost to the confidence and the speed before taking a break after Pucon 70.3 in January 2020. Excited to see how they go! Cheers.

Gotcha. Then I guess Florida would have been the option.

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Let food be thy medicine...

How much is the coach vs no-coach decision dictated by economics for these pro triathletes? Lionel might have more sponsorships than most, and the ability to monetize the YouTube videos, etc., but would he be out of pocket to hire a coach? Or would a coach work pro bono with him due to the stardust that would sprinkle off him? Given the paltry revenue streams most of these guys have, where is the money for coaching coming from?

I doubt a coach would provide their services FOC.

For a pro, coaching is an investment/business expense. You spend X on a coach so you can earn X+N in additional prize money.

I'm not sure about North America, but where I am coaching expenses would be tax deductible for a pro.

His post race videos are always the same. Made up excuses. The fact is there were 21 better triathletes than him on Saturday, I wish he'd sometimes just own it rather than make up excuses.

I hope no one seriously believes that he was dehydrated to the point of vision impairment, that can't be true. Our thirst mechanism combined with the sheer volume of aid stations at Kona means you would have to actively try to get dehydrated for this to happen, I don't buy it at all. I raced on saturday as well and hydration is absolutely a critical part of performing well in Kona but on the bike there are aid stations 7 miles apart and each station has about 10 opportunities to grab a water bottle, then on the run they are a mile apart with as much cold water/ice/gatorade/cola as you can possibly handle.

This is in part a backdoor pat on the back to the volunteers and organisation at kona, they really go the extra 10 miles to ensure every athlete has what they need to perform in that climate. The logistics behind just the aid station element of the race must be huge.

I'm a huge fan of Lionel, but I think the same. He sounded like making excuses. It's ok because that's human nature and I would do the same. Maybe that's why I like this guy. I just hope he has better year in 2020 and I believe he will. He's doing like three 70.3 races soon and I bet he will win or podium for sure in all three.

I don't see Lionel as making excuses. I think that he goes through the processing of a race like many of us do, but he does it in front of a camera... "What was I capable of? Why didn't things pan out according to my expectations? What do I need to do differently between now and the next race, or in the next race."

We all do that, just not in front of all of Youtube world. HOWEVER, Lionel does have a tendency to take this self-examination and go to various extremes in one direction or the other in terms of training, diet, etc.

Ray

Ice Cold Take