To me it would be just like bringing in a bike brand they don’t sell. Another option would be Velofix.

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Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/ - accepting athletes for 2023

Why do you think that you couldn't work on everything?

I've not had good luck; last year I needed the basebar on my speedmax swapped and I was being lazy so I emailed 2 shops about doing it for me and maybe updating my fit.

1 shop just would not respond to any of my emails, that shop has since gone out of business... The other shop quickly responded with a screenshot of the Canyon business model from Canyon's website and said they do not service Canyon.

1 shop just would not respond to any of my emails, that shop has since gone out of business... The other shop quickly responded with a screenshot of the Canyon business model from Canyon's website and said they do not service Canyon.

Wow! I thought we might be beyond this somewhat outdated thinking in bike retail, but just when you think that there has been progress made it comes back with a vengence!

I have spent almost my whole working life in B2B Sales - you NEVER turn down a lead, a tip, a reference, and expression of interest. For the life of me I have never understood, retailers who would actually turn down business that would come into their store and spend money with them!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

We do quite a lot of Canyon tri and road bikes since we also recommend them to bike fit clients, if the bikes fit. We also tell them the downsides like the long cranks and the labour they need to do or let it be done like in case with the too long length of the current extensions. Heck, we even have customers let the shipmto us after they order.

But lately we are also wondering if we should continue because Canyon displays an attitude that creates hassle we don’t want. As example, a while back we got a bike in with shipping so we contacted the client. When je told them they shipped the bike to us, a shop / fit studio, they actually said there was no warranty because we could have caused the damage. Finally after a lot of discussion they took the bike back

Another example, while working on a tri bike we heard a strange noise in the base bar, unfortunate when we are almost completely done with cutting the extensions and renew the cables. No noise was heard during the proces, but when we took the bike of the work stand to give it to the customer we heard the noise, a rattle like something was inside. Eventually disassembled the brakelevers, had to cut the cables, etc. We found a 10 cm long piece of outer cable inside the base bar. Canyon logo on it. Cusomer was still there eatching the process. Off course we charged him the extra labour and told him to explain what happened and ask Canyon for a compensation of the extra cost. They refused because the part we found was not theirs, he send the pic of the part where you couldn’t see the Canyon logo on it. Still after he send a pic where you could see the logo they still refused.....

And i can go on, got one in with di2 wires to short so when the customer turned the front wheel the cables were pulled out, not their fold.

So yes, i can see some shops just don’t want to deal with them. That said, we get a customer in tomorrow for a fit session. Bike first, fit second....hope he got the right size

Jeroen

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

 


Pretty much what Fleck said.

The only thing I can think of how Specialized of a part is need for a repair. If it something they need to order from Canyon Bikes they may want to charge you in advance and then hold onto the bike while awaiting the part. All repair parts may not yet be available here in the States so the wait time could be longer. Just my 2 cents.


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Once, I was fast. But I got over it.

I'm going through this now actually. I laid my Speedmax CF SLX down during Santa Rosa 70.3 two weeks ago. Bike got scratched up and needed new bar end shifters, wheels trued, and some other TLC (I also needed a plate and screws in my collarbone, but that's another story!).

I took it to a local shop in LA (Santa Monica) and they have been incredibly helpful. They took care of the repairs and were very fair with price. I could imagine that it might be a hassle if any of the Canyon proprietary parts needed repair, but in my case the damaged parts were Shimano / Zipp. I'm local to the store, so my sense is they wanted to begin a relationship with a local guy with expensive bikes that will likely need future work - seems like a no-brainier business move for any shop.

fwiw, i've also had very good experiences with Velofix. Very convenient if they are available in your area.

Good luck!

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Anders

I haven’t had issues getting my Speedmax SLX and Ultimate SLX serviced here in San Francisco. Sometimes the LBS guy will make a snarky joke about the bike when I’ve brought it in. I’ve also had good luck more recently with Velofix when I needed a bigger job (stem change on the SLX which required rerunning brake cables with was a real PITA).

That said, I don’t think I’d buy a Canyon again though. I sold my Ultimate recently (never much enjoyed that bike) and have been thinking about selling the Speedmax. I’ve found the spare parts too hard to come by with long waits, no ability for them to forecast arrival times, and just an attitude in general. What’s especially annoying is you can’t preorder parts they don’t have, so you have to keep calling and calling back week after week.

The bikes are nice and well specced for the money, but their US support just sucks too much. I’m over Canyon.

My Dad owned a bike shop for more than 30 years. He made the majority of his money servicing bikes, not selling them. He would never refuse to work on a brand that wasn't sold in his store, that's probably why the snobby stores mentioned in this thread went out of business. He did have a no huffy/murray without upfront payment policy because he repaired too many that the customer never came and picked up because the repair was worth more than the bike....but he wouldn't have refused to work on a Canyon if he were in business today.

This!!

The money is in service, parts, and accessories. My LBS works on my Ceepo all the time without complaint (they are a Trek store). This is even after I went in looking for a Trek roadie, but ended up with one off eBay. He services that too (although that thing has been bulletproof unlike the Ceepo).

This is the truth. Customer experience for a small repair or help with anything that is done well and done friendly will bring people back through the door. LBS' should be annoyed major brands sell nice bikes with garbage wheels. This is Canyon's biggest advantage. You can buy a well spec'd bike with some decent hoops. That said, I just purchased a Cannondale several months ago because the LBS was great to work with on another bike I did not purchase from the store. Customer experience is key.

there are some jobs i don't have the tools for, other times i don't want to risk messing something expensive up, and perhaps most common - those jobs i could probably do with help from youtube and a lot of time, but a typical bike shop mechanic will do in a fraction of the time for a modest cost.

thank you everyone for the replies. Definitely a mix, and enough to make me think seriously before buying one. The thing that prompted me to ask the question was a blog i read where a shop owner was basically saying that they will service any brand that follows the standard retail model, but not those sold direct to customers because the customers that support DTC should live with the consequences of the model they have chosen. Seemed a bit odd in this DTC age, but apparently there are several out there.

I’ve got a mechanic at a well-known bike store in Orlando, Orange Cycle. He is my go-to mechanic for anything I can’t do myself or don’t want to do myself. It’s a Specialized store but he’s worked on everything for me: my Cannondale F-Si, my Trek Fuel Ex, built up my Culprit gravel bike for me. I could go on and on.

I spoke to him a few months ago about a Canyon bike I was looking at and he told me he would gladly send someone down the street one way to buy a Trek or another way to buy a Cervélo before he ever told someone to buy a Canyon. He said that if you need to replace a proprietary part it’s a pain to get and takes forever. He recounted a customer who tried to warranty an integrated road base bar that had cracked near the hood (mechanic found it replacing bar tape) and Canyon tried to make it out to be the LBS’s fault. This seems to echo what others here have said.

LBS owner told me they don't make much more than 10% margin on selling a bike. They stay in business by servicing anything that comes through the door. Being snobbish about what they service would put them out of business.

We have had zero issues with our LBS. We are long time customers and they don’t sell tri bikes. So when we added the Tri Rig front end, we had Velofix do the assembly. Our LBS has done any other work since the parts are Shimano, which they deal with on a daily basis. I guess it really depends on your relationship with your LBS. We are pretty fortunate. They don’t care about the brand. They make their living on service.

My LBS is the bomb. Mechanic treats me and my bike with respect and care so he’s getting a lot of business from me and my friends. There’s always a shop like that so don’t limit your bike because of that. Speedmax is my dream bike and I will buy it in a heartbeat if I can afford it.

Honestly, in 2019, other that taking an appointment shop should not reply to random email.... The reply to business ratio is probably really bad.

Most bike shops, at least in the UK, still operate via an agreed distributor model and it can cause headaches when you need specific parts from the likes of Canyon. Basically a shop shouldn't be ordering in parts from outside their agreed supply network even if that part is readily available online. Canyon won't be involved in these distributor networks making it harder than it first appears for a shop to get a set of integrated Canyon bars etc.

As a practical example my Garmin Vectors 3 are currently in service getting a new battery door. Its been a real hassle because the battery door is easily available direct from Garmin online, but if I buy it, fit it it, and strip one of the little screws my warentee will be invalidated. My LBS, who I bought the pedal from, cando the work but only if they buy the part themselves through an official Garmin source. They are legally obliged to get Garmin parts through thier offical distributor and it turns out thier distributor doesn't sell the battery doors. So I have had to make a warentee claim and ship the pedals back to Garmin which has involved time and cost for the LBS all over a £25 part. When you apply the same situation to a Canyon specific part you can see why an LBS doesn't want the hassle.

On the flip side if all the maintaince is on standard parts then you should be fine. Headsets, pressfit BBs and other parts that many home mechanics don't want to tackle should be bread and butter for the LBS.

His attitude is naive and I consider it unethical although I'm suspect that's a controversial view. I presume he accepts that he will also have to live with the consequences of his choices and those consequences may well include failure of his business.
Most bike shops have 2 sources of revenue, both retail and service. They are selling cycling equipment including bikes, spares, accessories and consumables. They are also selling a service, that being maintenance/customisation. I believe they need to look at these as separate aspects of their business and if one doesn't make sense in isolation, they should be looking at eliminating it and specialising on the other. I realise a lot of shops use their ability to provide mechanic services as a selling point for their bikes. Fair enough. Then provide that service for bikes you sold. But if you're providing it beyond that, I don't think it's fair, reasonable, or wise, to try and pick and choose based on how a bike was purchased (unless it's stolen!)
It is reasonable to refuse to do work because you can't get parts or don't have tools required for a given bike, but that's a separate issue and nothing to do with how it was purchased. (it's much harder to get parts for my Felt tri bike than my Canyon Road bike, and mechanics have told me as much - but I'm in Europe).

My LBS cut-down the carbon steerer on my Canyon for me, no bother. It's revenue for them!

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29 years and counting

Bike shop based in Europe. Canyons you don't want to see coming in the door for repairs. Someone buys a Canyon you know they are going to be extremely price sensitive. Canyon has a lot of proprietary parts, so we have to go to Canyon website & buy at exact same price as anyone else. Then they are very slow to ship.

Yeah, you'd think that should be a no-brainer for bike shop owners, but sometimes the attitudes you encounter in some of those snobby bike shops can leave you scratching your head. I was recently shopping around for a cross bike/trekking bike style of bike for the wife. Nothing too fancy, because it won't see really heavy use. One option we were looking at was a Germany-based company by the name of Müsing which lets you configure your bike online, but delivery (and assembly) is exclusively through partner bike shops. They also have a limited number of pre-configured packages in each category of bikes, which offer a better price point compared to assembling the same components separately. When I went to the partner bike shop in my city to ask about the details of how such a purchase would work, the owner pretty straight up told me he wouldn't sell me one of those pre-configured packages, because he felt there wasn't enough profit in it for him to make it worth his time. He would only be available for complete custom builds.
Needless to say, that was the last time I set foot in his shop. I may be in the market for a higher-end 29er hard tail bike in the near future, but I sure as hell won't go looking in that shop.

Not directly related to the OP's question but anecdotal about Canyon:

I just took delivery of a top-of-the-line Canyon bike ($9,000 MSRP).
When putting it together from the box I noticed the brake shoes (rim brakes) were put on the wrong way such that the open side would point in the direction of the tire rotation. Imagine going down your first descent and losing your brake pads.

Ouch... When I got my Grail my front tire had a flat and the tire was mounted the wrong way (tire has rotation mark). I guess it was built on a Friday afternoon :)

Anyway... to the OP's quesition: it's worth investing a few bucks on your own tools and with a few minutes spent on youtube you can pretty much do any repair or install by yourself.
If my LBS refused to service my bike I'd tell them to go fuck themselves.

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What's your CdA?

you'd love one of the local bike shops here. Wont service/touch your bike unless you bought it from them. Needless to say they have burned a lot of bridges around town, but also have a loyal sheep following too.

Shop service manager here...

Happy to have the business come through the door. Not excited about the customer experience when we have to detail the additional costs and wait times related to missing and/or proprietary parts...for assembly, for fit, for repairs. That's not unique to Canyon, but it has been our (minimal) experience with Canyon so far. YMMV.

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Carl Matson

Not a canyon owner but a bikesdirect owner (I actually own three)

I have heard on forums sometimes people get crap or some shops refuse to work on BD bikes. I have a local mobile guy who does come around and will work on any bike, plus i don't have to wait for it to be fixed in the shop.

Chances are my next bike will be from the mobile guy, just because he sells some nice (and local) brands no one else sells.

any shop in our area will work on your Mongoose from Walmart or whatever pile of junk you drag through the door. The shop I work at will assemble mail order bikes for around $50, some other shops tend to charge a lot more for this service. It's generally 30 minutes of simple work, so why turn it away?

We had to deal with an OEM Praxxis bb the other day and it required watching some videos, reading the manual and talking on the phone, then opening an account and ordering the parts and a special tool. Jobs like that are clearly money losers...

Somebody please teach a little business to those LBS owners! How could anyone respond like that is beyond me. You service that bike, revenue comes in, you treat that customer well and do a good job and all of a sudden that customer continues to come to the store because they trust you, you then start selling them merchandise (gloves, tubes, jerseys maybe, pumps, CO2's you name it) = revenue; they then have a friend that wants a bike but somehow does not have the $ to pay for a Canyon, then maybe your happy customer refers them to your shop because they are good. Life time value of those customers is in the service and in having them coming back, not in selling a $4000 bike every what, 5 - 10 years? Of course that's nice but if you lost the sale already, might as well service.

And then they wonder why they go out of business? SMH!

LBS owner told me they don't make much more than 10% margin on selling a bike. They stay in business by servicing anything that comes through the door. Being snobbish about what they service would put them out of business.

^^^ Surprised they are still in business ... or they are giving bikes away.

However, we service anything that comes in because we are a customer service business. The downside to a Canyon or any other mail order bike, as noted above, is a combination of 3 things. 1. Proprietary parts - they HATE dealing with shops because it actually erodes their model. 2. Most ready to ride bikes are easy to assemble (Canyon, DB, Raleigh, etc) but we have one in 4 that comes in and either needs something replaced or a special tool to get it right ... most customers don't have that and/or can't do that. We end up charging them and it really pisses most of them off. 3. People who buy $5k bikes online (generalization here) tend to be incredibly cheap when they walk into a bike shop. This is what pisses most LBS off ... look, you bought a cool bike someplace else ... good for you. You brought it to me to work on ... good for me, a chance to build a relationship, make you happy and keep me in business. You then haggle on everything and tell me you can buy it online cheaper. Well, that's nice ... do you do that at the Lexus dealership? McDonalds? The plumber that fixes your toilet? Of course not.
These are the customers that we hate ... we still service the bikes, we smile, we treat them as best we can ... and we cringe EVERY DAMN TIME they walk in the door.

Yes, I would be negotiating with a Lexus dealer.

I own a few bike shops. We gladly assemble and work on canyons. Any shop Manager or Owner who would give a customer a hard time about it is nuts. It’s an extremely small portion of our business, but there is no way there would be any grudge. We work with hundreds of bikes a week, that would just be another one.

When people ask us about Canyon we do make an argument that you barely save any money long term versus a Trek or Specialized etc, but there is savings.

I do think when you pop down retail for a very expensive bike from a bike shop you should and can expect five star service around the clock for that bike. Move to the front of the que, fix while you wait, delivery in a pinch, loaner etc.

DBF, where are your shops located?

Mine a trek dealer gave me shit about wanting my steerer on my specialized cut. I said I’m out and won’t be coming back. I own two treks I bought from there. Was shocked.

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2019 T-Rex Tri Series

I've wondered about this. It would require a big change in the relationship I have with my LBS. As a practical matter, the price advantage of Canyon compared to a comparable BMC from his shop would amount to the price of a wheelset. I direct a lot of customers his way and he gives me a very healthy discount on purchases.

But . . . it has been 10 or 12 years since my LBS has charged me labor for anything. If I buy a component, installation is free. The few repairs I haven't done myself have been covered for free. I can only remember one labor charge and it was a small one for transferring components from one internally-routed frameset to another.

If I brought a Canyon in, I would expect to pay top dollar for the shop's labor. (And I wouldn't be offended if my discounts went away.)

For service, or on a vehicle purchase?

Igoslow, sounds like you own a bikeshop.

Can I ask you a question? I do generally try to buy local, with the exception of... Shimano groupsets... It's a difficult proposition, and the situation is unfair to US bikeshops, bu it's hard to pass up 50+% savings when you buy online (more than $1k difference).

What's a reasonable price for LBS to work on it? LBS I worked with wouldn't do it, not the full bike rebuild price of $250 for labor. Or is it more a matter of principle?

Decision is already made, so just curious. I ended up buying a full set of park tools and learned how to wrench things myself.

bloodyshogun

I do own a shop.

I personally do as much local business as I can ... for just about anything. But like any customer, if I go to a print shop and get crap service or they don't have what I need, if it is time sensitive, I will go online. Money is money though so I get why people shop online or Walmart or whatever. Labor, on the other hand, is just money out of my pocket ... salary, insurance, taxes, etc. So if you buy stuff from us consistently you will get moved to the front of the line or get some breaks here and there. If you buy all of your stuff elsewhere and bring it in, no real favors ... you pay our shop rate and get served in the queue ... we will move you up for an expedited fee. We never turn business away unless it is something like a rebuild on a Brain shock. I just call the nearest Specialized dealer and send the customer there ... or if the customer just wants us to do it, we do it, send it to the other dealer, pay them whatever they charge us and then make our money on the labor.

We also have a full labor charge if you worked on it yourself, screwed it up, lied to us about it and then when we get it realized it. Same for urinated on tri bikes ... our cleaning fee if it tests positive on a PH strip is a bonus $150 ... if it is clean when it comes in no worry ;)

On the purchase of a vehicle, I would be negotiating.

For service, I would do the work myself or have my brother do it for free.

It's possible they are full of shit and make a lot more than 10% margin. But they sell a lot of low to mid-range bikes which probably have less margin than dentist bikes.

Generally, there is a 38% difference between the wholesale price and retail price on a complete bike.

Sure. That is the margin on the sale before extraneous costs then. Maybe his point was 28 of that 38% was getting eaten by costs.
So, after paying for rent, staff, etc...
I duno.

Higher the price bike equals lower % margin. Hybrids can get to 40%, s-works 26%. Obviously more dollar profit on 10k bike.

No shop can make a living on a 10% margin.

Carl is that... you (as in Trek Carl)? Glad to see you here on the forum again :)

cheers

I spend more time lurking in the Lavender Room than here. very much appreciate your work over there BTW.

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Carl Matson

I am in retail in the UK
We service and do fits on Canyon bikes; as you say we view it as a chance to look after new customers
But they can be a royal pain in the arse to service; and if it needs parts it takes an age to arrive and thats annoying for customer and bad for us to tie up space etc
I can see why LBS don’t like Canyon though; the Canyon website is incredibly adversarial towards bike shops - they have a whole graphic showing that by removing the LBS from the equation they can pass savings onto the consumer
I get thats how DTC works but most DTC products are not that technical
It would be like Tesla rolling out cars and ‘hoping’’ they could free-ride off of someone else investing in charging stations...
Canyon are very dismissive over the value of LBS’’s, but assume they will be there as first responders to service their products; with no investment in training/service agreements etc

I think Canyon have an interesting future
Their bikes are very good; and dont need to compete on price anymore
Conversely bikes are getting so complicated that on the ground fit and servicing is ever more important
Shipping a caliper brake mechanical Ultegra bike with external cabling 5 yrs ago is very different than shipping a Di2 disc aero bike with fully internal cabling

Just like a lot of the DTC guys in other industries have realised they need some brick and mortar I think Canyon will end up doing something; either themselves or in partnership

Pretty sure they are partnering up with Velofix to offer the “white glove” service.

Mechanics, chefs and carnies are well known for being surly.

They're a brick & mortar business and if you want them to take you seriously bring the bike in and bring the funds to pay for it when they're done. Pssssssst. I'm surprised they even have an email.

I faced the issue of what to do when my brand new Canyon Ultimate arrived DOA. I didn't take it in to a bike shop because I didn't feel comfortable. If anything goes wrong with a repair it's a bad situation. Since the parts are propritary it's hard for a shop to know much about the brand and it's hard to get upset if a mistake is made.

All said and done, the Canyon is a nice bike and on the same level as Trek in terms of build quality and design. However and I mean HOWEVER, the customer service is horrendous. Unless you are head over heels in love with the bike I would highly recommend getting something else. You can always get support for you Cervelo, Trek or Cannondale. If not from one shop or another. Canyon, not so much.

Which parts are proprietary?

On my Speedmax (previous model):

The brakes, both front and rear, are proprietary and have a minor design flaw (metal fatigue) that required replacement parts to fix.

The bars and entire front end is proprietary, from the spacers to the pads to the foam, etc.

The seat post, of course.

The rear derailleur hanger.

I love it, but it arrived with a chip in the paint, which I didn’t bother contacting them about because it had taken a while to arrive and it is covered by the frame bottle in use.

I have never taken it to a shop for servicing, but I have friendly support and have been lucky.

My Specialized bikes on the other hand are all good. Shops are fine with them.

I kind of don’t blame the shops. I mean, we are basically killing our own high-street. I am as guilty as anyone else. Amazon is the worst of it, and always chasing a deal.

My spelling sucks! Frame, fork and handlebars on the Ultimate I bought. Battery change wasn't the easiest as I had to really dig in the website to find a drawing.

I've had a Canyon Aeroad for a couple of months, love the bike, and have had good luck with Canyon thus far. I do wrench my own bikes, so I haven't needed to take it into the LBS for service. The main shop I go to thinks it's a very nice bike and understands the economics of why people buy their bikes through Canyon (the bike I got was still a couple of grand cheaper than the Specialized equivalent I could have gotten through our team deal for a similar build). They also recognize that a bike is a bike when it comes to service, and they need to keep the doors open and lights on.

Canyon did put me on the wrong size (XS) despite their online calculator saying I should be a S (which also matched the geometry of my Cannondale). Sure enough, got the XS and it was too small. Sent it back and got a S. No problems with customer service, and they covered shipping both ways. I had no trouble getting extra parts (eg, seat post clamp, derailleur hander) either. I think we are a bit spoiled in SoCal with Canyon, since their showroom and warehouse are here.

For someone who really needs the service (eg, fit and maintenance), then I would point them towards a LBS. When you start getting into certain bikes (eg, aero, tri), you're going to find lots of proprietary parts. The one advantage to getting your bike through a LBS is that they can help you procure parts if needed. Again, Canyon isn't for everyone, but I'm glad they have a US presence now.

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"Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps"
Blog = http://extrememomentum.com|Photos = http://wheelgoodphotos.com

Sounds like if you're going to buy a Canyon, hold onto your old bike--you may need it in case you return the Canyon for some work on something chipped or wrong with the frame when it arrived. You need a back up bike.

I can say after riding Cannondale, Softride, Litespeed, Quintanna Roo and now Cervelo (for the last 10 years), I would not have ANY problems with going back to Cervelo for a new model I like it that much. With the dig on Canyon in this thread (unless it's fake media by foreign posts to erode consumer confidence in the German brand...) I must admit it makes me weary of the lag time for part delays, and my shop would likely have immediate resolution on anything with a Cervelo.

FWIW, I have never ridden a Canyon so can't comment on how it feels from a ride standpoint. It would have to be pretty amazing to not go Cervelo at this point. Although Treks are pretty nice as well.

I look at the Canyon Website and don't see any real savings compared to say ARGON which is supported by my LBS.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I am dealing with a warranty issue on a bike I just bought through a LBS, can't say its been easy or I feel that highly supported (and I consider them a pretty good shop). So I'm not sure how much warranty support is worth through a lot of shops these days even

Maybe all the star riders are leaving Movistar because nobody will work on their Canyons.

I think any business that doesn't have a set, published price list for services should expect to be challenged on price regularly and there's nothing wrong with that. I've had my car serviced by guys who do, and who do not publish prices. If they're not published, and they seem at all high, I WILL challenge them on their quote. It was their choice to do business this way, not mine. On the other hand, I will not try to haggle with a garage that says "we charge X for Y type of service". They choose to do business by setting out their stall and sticking to it and I respect that. It may be slightly trickier to pre-define prices for more unique jobs, but in those cases I think a (polite) discussion on price is fair. Unfortunately there are many businesses that DO try to screw unwary customers. People hate to feel like they've been screwed. I think negotiation is often about satisfying oneself that's not happening, rather than looking for a special deal or being unwilling to pay a fair price for the work or product.

I think you picked poor examples, since the worst offenders in my experience are the car industry and plumbers! They're the two industries I'm most likely to challenge on price.
A domestic plumber around here is liable to tell you your toilet repair will cost €100, and then once the job is done tell you how it was a particularly difficult issue which he couldn't have predicted and he'll have to charge you €600. Funnily, if you know a bit about plumbing and ask them to explain what the issue was and what they had to do to fix it they tend to get rather vague!

I've challenged plumbers and car dealers/maintenance many times. I've rarely challenged a price in the LBS.

People bargain, or try to, at car dealerships and with plumbers all the time.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

My current experience is this is kind of true but its not always the shops fault. My Garmin Vector 3's are currently going through the warranty process at my LBS and its proving to be a pain. While Garmin appears to have a great forward facing policy it turns out to be a complex mess in reality which is making things a pain (at least in Europe for the authorised distribution network). In this case all parties can agree the battery door is broken and needs to be replaced. Garmin's preferred solution is for me to avoid the shop and pay them £25 for the new part and then install it myself. They make this easy enough BUT if anything goes wrong during the install or if it turns out not to be a battery door issue I have invalidated my warrantee. Similarly my LBS is an authorised Garmin dealer but isn't authorised to make the warrantee repairs so if they do the work the warrantee is invalid. So we are having to go through a long process of shipping the pedals off, having them evaluated, potentially fixed and shipped back which Garmin will charge at least £25 while wasting a lot more time. The LBS aren't thrilled with this whole procedure especially because the underlaying issue is an inherent design flaw in the pedals which Garmin fully acknowledges but there is no easy way around it. Customers want Garmin products and Garmin wants to transfer after purchase responsibility to the consumer putting shops and consumers in a rough spot. Its no surprise to me you see statements on here and elsewhere that people have dropped Garmin due to the way they handled the Vector 3 issue.

I have Canyon Speedmax CF SLX.
My bike mechanic says it's really made well and smart. He likes german attitude to construction of their bikes.

Brake system is easy to deal with, no problems with assemble/disassamble it (he made a full dissasemble of the bike to repair a scratch on the frame).
For example, Felt's tri bike brake system is such a pain in the ass.

I crashed my Canyon Aeroad in 2018. My friend took the bike to a local LBS/tri shop after dropping me off at the hospital. There was over $2,000 damage to it. Most of it was stuff easily replaced... like the RD, both brifters, seat... but the derailleur hanger was broken and that’s a proprietary part. The shop had zero relationship with Canyon but they were able to get the part from Canyon in just a couple of days. The guy at the LBS was actually impressed with Canyon because all he had heard up to that point was how difficult Canyon could be with getting parts.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

I mean anything ordering online is a risk - if I order a new pair of shoes I order 2 and return the wrong size one. Not as easy with bikes, but that's the one reason why D2C is so different for bikes. So yeah I'd hold onto the old bike until the new one is there, which isn't optimal for tight cash flow.

That said, I love my Canyon bikes - have an Inflite, Ultimate & Speedmax. And for sizing, their fit calculator got me spot on, although I did get fit before my Speedmax to confirm that one. I do have the convenience that I live in NL, so customer service wise I get everything in 3 days or less (even the bike!).

If I were ordering in the US, I would definitely just order a spare derailleur hanger with the bike, it's cheap enough for your peace of mind. Most my friends regardless of brand have a spare sitting in their parts box, I only recently followed trend after a friend's hanger broke twice in two months on his Stevens

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Chasing PB Podcast Latest interview with Eli Hemming on Targeting a US MTR spot in Tokyo

I'm a big fan of Canyon. I love my speedmax and I've been thinking about one of their road bikes. My LBS knew I was buying it, fitted me for it ahead of time and helped me adjust it afterwards. They do any major work it needs (including a rush job to replace a rear D that I broke when I dropped it out of my repair stand one morning). They know I spend many of my bike related $ there, and will continue to do so. Would they prefer I buy one of their bikes, sure, but not enough to prevent us from being on a very friendly first-name basis.

As for Canyon, I was recently in Lake Taupo NZ with a bent rear D hanger a few days out from IMNZ. I posted here about the problem, and got a direct reply from the Canyon rep who hangs around these forums. He bent over backwards to try and get me the part in time. He also reached out to the Canyon AUS team and to see if they could help. I had been reaching out to them as well. They went out of their way to get me the part I needed (and a spare) in time for the race. (Critical readers will note that had I owned a Cervelo or something similar, I would have had an easier time sourcing the part, but I don't think that's unique to Canyon, while a bit more pointed with them, I think it's sort of a "superbike" problem.)

I can't say enough good things about Canyon as a designer of bikes, but also as a customer service enterprise.