I would suggest getting a new fitter. I cant think of any advantages of the Shimano pedal and for fit issues there is no better pedal than a Speedplay.

Did he give any reason WHY he didn't like Speedplay?
Opinions without rationale are utterly worthless to me. Every time we accept one our world gets a little worse!
Just my opinion...... ;p

That's just weird. Is he also selling shimano pedals? lol

I think you should always have some play between pedals and cleats. One of the reasons is pedalling when you're not seated. You move a lot more when standing, compared to riding in seated position. So if your cleats are "locked", you might accidentally unclip them when pedalling in standing position.

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Don't stop when you're tired. Stop when you're done.

- D. Goggins

I am but a mere consumer of fun bike stuff, but my impression is that Speedplay is the shizzle unless you want power meter pedals. I thought Speedplay are the most aero, most adjustable, and easiest to clip in and out, and I really don't know why anyone would buy anything else unless they had an overriding brand affinity.

 


If you like your speedplay pedals you should just keep them. I'm not sure why your fitter said that unless he was trying to sell you something. It would be like him saying I don't like that saddle you're perfectly comfortable on and you should switch.

There's really not been any studies that show one pedal is better than the other. I use speedplay and the only issue I have is I do develop a little side to side "rock" in the pedal/cleat interface. I sometimes use Shimano for track because I feel a bit more locked in, but 99% of my riding is on Speedplay.

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Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

Two negatives about speedplays: cost and maintenance. Upfront they're slightly expensive compared to other systems and the replacement cleats are super expensive compared to others. The cleats must be dry lubed fairly often or they start to feel "sticky" and need to regrease the spindles once or twice a year. That being said, all of my bikes have speedplays on them.

The only thing I can come up with is money. I rotate 3 race bikes and 1 TT/TRI bike (most of them not expensive) and I'd love to switch to Speedplay. But buying 4 sets of Speedplay pedals is quite expensive. Also, I think Look pedals are not that bad (at least, the ones with a carbonplate that closes the bottom of the pedal)

If your feet are going numb you better have someone double or triple check your cleat position. Shimano does has some float but this sounds like it may be way off.

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Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram

Find a new fitter. Pedals are a consumer preference and have nothing to do with bike fit.

As for your last question, the Zero pedals can be adjusted to emulate the movement of any SPD-L type pedal with the simple adjustment of 2 screws on each shoe.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

I use both (used Shimano for years, bought the aero zero speedplays for track/tt) and for the most part, agree with everyone else.

The only thing I dislike about Speedplay is that little bit of float that you can't eliminate even with the bolts screwed all the way in. The caveat to that is that I've always used Red (0 float) Shimano cleats. (And I understand that issue applies to like .01% of the population)

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My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com

This.

Zero's with the new walkable cleats are a real advantage for me.

He said he didn’t like that speedplay pedals allow the shoe to rock side to side when clipped into the pedal. He believes there is an optimal position to be in that should be comfortable for you.

On SPD pedals on the mt bike, my feet move a lot, given the shifting around a lot due to the terrain changes. I just began to assume maybe the shifting around is actually- a good thing.

I run Speedplay on all my bikes except for my mountain bike. Two pair of X2s I have been using since the mid 90s. I did have to rebuild one of those after I wrecked and wore out the plastic lollipop sliding down the road. I run the Pave model on the bike I use for touring, which is a bit harder to get in and out of, but are great pedals. I plan to use the SYZR system on my gravel bike.

If any fitter tried to switch me to Shimano pedals for road or triathlon, I would probably question the fit as well.

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"Remember: a bicycle is an elegant and efficient tool designed for seeking out and defeating people who aren't as good as you."

--BikeSnobNYC

Well, in that case I'd be questioning the fitter more than the pedals.
Most riders, including pros use some amount of float. Unless you have a damn good reason to eliminate it I'd never consider doing so. Put it this way, even if there is a specific position that's optimum (which I don't believe - the best angle is likely to vary, if even if only slightly throughout the stroke) you'd damn well better know exactly what that angle is before you lock yourself in it for the entire ride. Thus, even if this were true, you'd need a lot of work to be certain the position was good and if you're feeling worse than you did before, the position is NOT good.

I would agree that you should get a second opinion. Having float in the pedals is important to avoid knee injuries and generally is a good thing unless you are trying to squeeze out every .1 watt. Check which color cleat you have, if they are black it means you have 0 degrees of float (moving your foot side to side). I use red like Morelock above which has the maximum float, I think up to 10%, and is something you have to get comfortable with but will be the best for injury prevention. Grey will give you ~5 degrees of float. Also the float has nothing to do with speedplay vs Shimano which completely invalidates his opinion in the first place.

Pedals have a good bit to do with the bike fit. Shimano now offers a +4mm longer pedal spindle whereas Speedplay has several options. I will second you need a new fitter. Lateral knee alignment is crucial in a bike fit.

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Robert Driskell
Certified Master Body Geometry fit Technician
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Zipp Service Course Specialist
Bikes Plus Pensacola Florida

Which Shimano. There is Shimano and Shimano and they are very different.

I had spd because I run on my bikeshoes in transition. Until I noticed that on long rides they develope a nasty pressure point.

So I changed to spd-sl which felt perfect to me and with which I can also run.

Now, only for aero reasons, I changed to zero aero cleats with normal speedplay pedals. They feel the same as the spd-sl, only the entrance is a bit difficult. I can also run on them and I'm happy.

Since my right foot I naturally walk with it pointed outward, he also wanted Shimano for the longer spindle. Again, the rocking of the shoe (tipping) side to side, not the float... is also what he didn’t like about Speedplay.

You can get Speedplay with a bigger range of spindle lengths than Shimano AFAIK. I had a set with spindles 6mm longer than normal when I originally started using them. From memory, I think their standard spindle length is 53mm and they also sell 50, 56, 59, and something longer, maybe 65mm? This was one of the less important reasons I moved to Speedplay. The main one was the low friction float. I've since decided I don't need the longer spindle, but they ARE available. Undue Side to side rocking, as far as I've noticed, only crops up when cleats have become very worn.

I can see what he is on about. I found the standard old school Speedplay cleats with the aliminium plate have less rock than the walkable cleats and it is one of the few things I dislike about Speedplay pedals. I only notice the instability every now and again. I like the pedals and choose to use them but I understand why some people wouldn't like them. I have a dislike for carbon cranks over aluminium but I am sure many people wouldn't feel the flex I dislike in them. Each to there own and if you don't notice it riding then stick with the Speedplays as they have so many advantages over other pedals IMO.

Great, now I am looking for speedplay zero's to try...

There is no tipping w/speedplay. Your fitter is simply wrong. As I think should be obvious in this thread.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

There is no tipping w/speedplay. Your fitter is simply wrong. As I think should be obvious in this thread.


Dan - Indeed!

However, when they are badly worn, there can be rocking and extra movement with Speedplay or with and badly worn down or abused cleat/pedal system - which is not uncommon. Many cyclists/triathletes cleats/pedals are in horrible shape! I honestly don't know how they can ride their bikes like that? $5000 - $10,000 bike and $25 cleats completely worn out!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

no doubt. i just don't find this to be a speedplay issue, but a worn pedal issue. i've got several pair of shoes, and several sets of zeros, lots of miles, no rocking.

look, the problem is this. speedplay takes certain functionality that typically belongs on most pedals and places them in the cleat. therefore the pedal looks kind of like a cleat, and the cleat looks like a pedal. people look at the pedal and think, whoa, not a lot of pedal there. but if you look at the actual engagement parts, the surface area of engagement, it's similar to other pedals or bigger.

nobody ever says this sort of stuff about egg beaters. also great pedals. or shimano MTB. speedplay zeros have a massive engagement footprint relative to those pedals. you hate to see ignorance like this at IBDs.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I once had a brand new set of Zeros exhibit the rocking. New cleats with new pedals.

I have to disagree somewhat here. I dislike the movement in speedplay as small as it may be compared to the more solid platform of Time I cam from. As for other pedals I can't make a comparison as I haven't tried them but all my bikes have Speedplay pedals now. As I stated early there is a more solid feel with the aluminium plate cleats than the walkables that I prefer but I the walkable cleats trump the old style well to walk in and for aero and I no longer have a set as I replaced them after they wore out.

here's some info on speedplay platform size. as to rocking. absolutely possible to have rocking. very hard to have rocking if you're using a compatible shoe (the great majority of shoes) and if you mount them right. here's a cheat page.

mind, i love shimano. and i ride egg beaters for MTB. and i'm with you. as we used to say in my day, if this pedal's a rockin', don't come a knockin'. but this is my install. and pardon, i just unpacked from a race over the weekend and everything's filthy. but if you install the pedals right, with the right hardware, on all but the very few incompatible shoes, ain't no rockin. when i see trouble it's because the cleats were mounted "around" the curvature of the shoe (without the necessary hardware).





many or most people don't understand the features of this pedal. if they did, they'd look at this pedal more closely. speedplay is a partner of ours. but they only became a partner about 2 months ago, after quite a few years of my championining this pedal with no agreement between that company and mine. i can only suspect they reached a point where they got tired of spending their money in places that didn't understand the value of the pedal; the specific features that i find of specific value that are not offered in any other pedal.

for those who don't know what the features are, i'm happy to explain. and i have had pedals that rock. that do not exhibit a union between pedal and cleat that is free of play. but not speedplay. this shoe i'm using, the shimano s-phyre, is certainly among the most popular shoes in triathlon. if you place speedplays on this shoe and there's play in the system, i promise you it's not the shoe's fault, and it's not the pedal's fault. same with most other shoes.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I found this on the subject.

http://www.speedplay.com/...dcompare.roadresults

As an additional consideration I've seen it written elsewhere that minimising the stack height between the centre of the pedal spindle and sole of the foot helps with power transfer

The pictures show (at least to my point of view) a set-up for non-speedplay shoes with the adapter (I have this too). There ist however a nasty clearance between the cleat and the shoe. Speedplay solved this problem:
https://www.bike24.de/...mid%5B24%5D=1;page=4
(sorry about the german shop where I always order)
That fills up the gap smoothly.

i wouldn't say it's a nasty clearance problem. however, i do know that speedplay considers the gap between the pedal and the foot to be a feature, so, it doesn't surprise me that it created a solution that addresses that. this mount in my images is probably 2yr old.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Dan,
I like the way Speedplay pedals feel, but I have been unable to set them up to where they don't make squeaking noises.
It does sound like it could be cleat to shoe interface as you describe. It sounds to me like it is the rubber cover squeaking against the pedal spindle.
Is this possible?
Would getting the cleat flatter on the shoe help with this?
I am using Bont shoes with the recommended adaptor pieces- 5-F & 5-R Snap-Shims. May require "Extra Shim" under cleat-mounting screw of each V.2 Base Plate.

Do you have the walkable? I had that with my first pair. Make sure the walkable cover is all the on. Also, I put just a dab of White Lighting right where the edge of the cover is over the spindle. Never had the problem since.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

They are walkable- Newer style with yellow rubber cover.
I have tried lube like that- Didn't help and was messy.

I used Zeros for a couple of years and liked them for all the reasons others have stated. No longer. They wear out relatively quickly resulting in slop between the pedal and cleat. This is manifested by a side-to side rocking motion of the shoe over the pedal.


The problem with the Speedplays is that the pedal body wears down rather quickly due to the abrasive action of the dirt which gets trapped between the pedal and cleat. Also, the plastic plate inside the cleat, which is the primary weight and friction-bearing surface that the pedal rides and turns on, is subject to the same wear as the pedal, only it is at a significantly greater rate as it's composed of a softer material than the pedal body and really shows the wear. It develops rather deep indentations that are the mirror-image of the pedal itself, as the pedal is constantly rotating against this surface. If there is the smallest amount of grit between the pedal and the cleat, the wear action and subsequent slop is accelerated significantly.


One cannot tell by looking that the pedal body is wearing until it's too late. A dial caliper is required to measure the thickness of the pedal. The outside portion of the pedal is the location of the greatest wear (this is the 3 o'clock position, looking down from the saddle, for the right side, 9 o'clock for the left). When new, the pedal body thickness is .675". Seven months after initial installation, the pedal bodies had worn down to .635", a full .040"! This is about the thickness of the wire that a large paper clip is made of. (It's a lot of wear). The cleat plate had indentations that were .070" deep! When I clipped in, there was all kinds of slop, as the total gap was around .110". I have found that the pedal starts to feel sloppy when the outside of the pedal body has lost around .010". Bear in mind that the cleat will have at least the same amount of wear and usually more (say .015" or so). One feels the wear as a tendency for the foot to roll to the outside. It really doesn't take much wear to feel this sloppiness, and it snowballs once it has started. The gap between the pedal and cleat gets bigger and the slop gets worse. Keeping this pedal/cleat system spotless at all times is critical if you want any longevity.


I switched to Shimano Ultegra pedals with the blue cleat and have never looked back. The stability is rock solid, the float is perfect, AND there is simply no cleat better for walking around.


Just my .02c. Your mileage may vary.

I've gone through 3-4 dura-ace pedals, each one of them lasting less than year. Every single time, one of the pedals develops massive play and I literally can feel my foot/shoe/cleat moving within the pedal during every pedal stroke. One time it got so bad, I struggled to get into and out of the pedal. I always run relatively new cleats and the tension on the pedals is set to pretty low.

Maybe I am doing something wrong but I have been contemplating the switch to speedplay.

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That's very atypical. DA pedals are regarded by most as being bulletproof and have a great rep for durability and longevity.

Really. Wow didn’t know this

I have over 20,000 miles on my speedplay Pedals.

May actually be closer to 25,000 miles

Probably 10,000 outside the rest on a trainer


They are 11 years old

I’ve never walked with them on as I just take my feet out of the shoe and leave them on the bike

Maybe this is why they’ve lasted so long?

They don’t squeak and I don’t think they rock

Have never done any maintenance or used any lube on them . Didn’t know I needed to

How many watts do you think I’m wasting?

Maybe I should just buy a new pair and maintain them properly?

My experience the same, lots and lots of miles on several sets of speedplay pedals. Never lube them and they just run fine forever. Much lower stack and better feel versus Look/Shimano.

Same. I have one pair of Speedplay X-2s I have been riding since the mid to late 90s. Damn close to 25 years. I only inject new grease every couple of years. My old GF ended up with my pair I bought early 2000s. I have two other newer pairs I bought for additional bikes. They last. My feet turn a bit sideways when I pedal, pointing slightly leftward. They find their natural position with the float.

I switched to Speedplay Paves on my Titanium bike I travel with. For long tours getting off my bike I like to know a little mud will not stop me from clipping in. The engagement is very solid but a little harder to pop in and out. On the walkable cleats, I did lose one of the rubber part in Ireland. I usually pack spare cleats for long tours, so was good, but I could have ridden with it just fine.

There used to be a mechanic/fitter at the shop I worked at that always recommended Shimano pedals. That was because that was all he rode. A few of those people I ended up switching to Speedplay when they came back in. I see no advantage using Shimano over Speedplay for a triathlete.

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"Remember: a bicycle is an elegant and efficient tool designed for seeking out and defeating people who aren't as good as you."

--BikeSnobNYC

Lol 25 years incredible

I have to tell the truth mine are closer to 15 years but thought people would call BS

I feel better now after reading your post

😀

Coincidentally, my DA pedals have started to get play in them again. Enough is enough. Speedplay zero aero are on order.

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What about this guy's assertion that Speedplay is only good if you're light weight? I'm a huge guy with huge feet and am curious about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdvrCFWIx8I

I have 5,000 miles on my Speedplays X5s and haven't done any maintenance on them.

Of the three of us in my normal ride group, two have switched to Speedplays and our knee pain has gone away. The third was already using Speedplays. Maybe all in my head or should be fixed elsewhere, but I can ride longer and pain free now.

On the weight issue, I'm 190-200#, but don't put out much power, so I can't comment on that aspect.

i just published our analysis piece on shoe/pedal choices made by the top 15 men and women in kona, versus the general population of kona racers. it's on our front page. the male and female kona winners, along with 5 of the first 7 men, 3 of the first 4 women, were on speedplay, and was the choice of more of these top 15 athletes than any other brand.

because i work with both the brands and the athletes, i can say with pretty good assurance that this was not a sponsor money choice these athletes were making.

with respect and deference to the individual issues one user or another might've had with speedplay, this article reports on the choice made at the highest levels of long distance triathlon. what i can say with confidence is that certain recurring mythology about speedplay (e.g., base of support not large enough) is just hogwash. this certainly appears the pedal of choice (closely followed by dura ace) among those with earnings on the line, when sponsor money is not the issue.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I tried Shimano's yellow 1.6 degree lateral float cleats and noticed my right knee hurt so tried the Speedplay and haven't had any knee problems since. I have them on Bont Zeros and noticed the adapter shims were not a good fit to the sole. I filed the shims a little and still not perfect so I put masking tape on the shoe, a glob of 5 minute metal epoxy, bolted the cleat on, wiped off the excess, and let the epoxy become part of the shims and adapter. After removing the tape and reassembling the shims I see no light between the shims and sole. No maintenance, noises, or problems, but only 2000km on them. I will try Shimano again someday with the maximum float cleats just to give it another chance and reduce stack height of the cleat since I have to use the 3 hole adapters on Bonts. I have Shimano style MTB cleats on my folding bike and don't have any knee problems but they have a lot of float. I saw a Youtube once asking Tour de France pro's and think a few used cleats with some float.

interesting you have a bont zero & speedplay issue. that's the set up used by frodeno and lieferman. i would not have thought that would yield any mounting issues. i've used bont & speedplay together plenty and haven't had trouble, both tri and road shoes, but i don't have the zero+ so i can't speak to that shoe.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

shoe size and cleat placement sometimes means the purple shims aren't 'thick' enough to keep the baseplate in plane. even not on bont shoes sometimes I do a kludge and use the keyhole shaped shim (you know, the one you throw away lol) as an extra wedgie underneath the 6F wedge.

there is very little curvature to bonts so yes this sounds a little weird. but with a tiny shoe (under size...40?) the squared off area for the cleat is smaller too. the back of the baseplate hangs over the arch area.

will also say that lateral knee pain may not just be a float issue, more of a tibial torsion issue, possibly coming from the ankle.

also, shimano spd mtb cleats do not have float at all. do not confuse a loose spring tension with float.

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Anne Barnes
ABBikefit, Ltd
FIST/SICI/FIST DOWN DEEP
X/Y Coordinator
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Speaking of Speedplay support I haven’t seen anything in bike industry news about the new owners closing their San Diego facility, laying off all existing employees, reducing pedal model offerings and moving production oversees. The Speedplays we’re used to may not be the Speedplays of the future. Could be they’re better or they could be worse either way I don’t like seeing big business do this to small business:(

What does huge guy mean? I ride at 195-205 and have had no issues with these pedals and love them. Can’t imagine going back to another pedal despite some good experiences with other pedals. These are just that much better.

I wore speed plays for about 6 years then went to Shimano; since I was having to replace the cleat about every year in the speedily to to play / wear. Got the Shimano with max float and still developed knee pain that took a few months to go away even after switching back.

Speed play are going to give you a broad fit range and are faster, but will require a little more maintenance. I wont cheat on them again. They are on all of my 4 bikes now.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Long time speedplay fan, but I admit I am getting frustrated with the rocking that develops on mine (zeros).

I have a pair that are less than 6 months old, and I've put the cleats on both my older Shimano TR-60 shoes, and a new pair of Bonts. As far as I can tell, the adapter plate is flush with the shoe, with those purple spacers under it to match the curve of the shoe. Metal cleat looks flat. When I clip into the pedal, I can take my foot out, hold the shoe in my hand and rock it side to side, a lot.
I do use my cleats pretty opened up rotation wise, and use that a lot due to hip imbalances, and can't help but wonder if I am putting more wear on the pedal body than most because of the rotation I use.

I've tried Shimano a few times, but the float is just no where near as free......but I may try again...

Regarding my size 41 Bont Zeros; I thought others might be freaked out by seeing a gap so threw in the epoxy idea. I have no problems with Speedplay; they are great.

I see about the Shimano MTB now; I guess the looser spring tension and possibly upright posture saves my knees. Before I get a new bike I will get a pro bike fit.

I have Bont Helix and Zero + shoes but they are both 4 hole versions which you can specify if you order directly from Bont. I typically use the Helix on zero pedals and the Zero+ on zero aero pedals. I don’t use any shims and have no issues on either sets of pedals.