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Why you need to "quit" ERG mode...
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My coach had been lambasting me for months about why I need to get out of ERG mode. I finally decided to listen to her a couple months ago, and it's making a world of difference in my ability ride outdoors. So I just wanted to share my experience with others.

I rode in ERG mode for the same reasons as most:
1) It kept me locked in at an exact power, especially helpful on harder intervals where my tendency was to back off near the end
2) It allowed me to just space out (listen to an audiobook/postcast/whatever) and all I had to do was turn the cranks

The arguments against ERG mode:
1) Even when riding at the same power at the same RPM, the muscles you engage and the timing of that muscle engagement are different depending on what gear you are in. If you live in Miami and are training for IM FL maybe that's not so much of a problem if you do ERG mode in the same gear you'd normally ride, but for those of us who live in places with hills and/or race on more varied terrain, this is a major problem. I used to ride ERG mode in the small cog in the middle of my cassette (for no specific reason, but this simulates "hill" gearing), but now that I'm out of ERG mode and spending more time in the big ring, I'm finding I'm much more able to turn a big gear on longer stretches of flat. Wahoo explains this here: https://blog.wahoofitness.com/...ar-selection-matter/
2) While it sometimes sucks, you really should be focusing on your riding form, pedal stroke, body position, etc rather than watching Netflix. I recently when back and compared the pedal dynamics from my dual sided Pioneer PM for workouts where I was very focused on the task vs spacing out watching Breaking Bad re-runs, and the difference was pretty eye opening. I'm a busy guy, and out of ERG mode it's clear I'm getting more bang for my buck time wise.
3) Now that I'm riding out of ERG mode (and paying more attention to my body during workouts), I'm developing a much better awareness of the correlation between perceived exertion and power. I find when I'm riding outside, when I glance down at my PM, my estimated power is pretty darn close to actual. This helped me in my most recent race, because I was able to hold my power target much more naturally (without glancing at my head unit every 30 seconds) and instead focused on terrain management, etc. I didn't realize how much I was relying on ERG mode to keep me in my power zone until I started training without it.

I know many have had success with ERG mode, but just though I'd share my experience. This is just N=1 of a middling cyclist who really struggled to make gains on the bike over the last year but since "quitting" ERG mode in May my improvements on the bike have been very satisfying. I'm sure there are other much more skilled athletes and coaches who have a deeper perspective here, and perhaps they can weigh in.

(ps edit) if you are a 30-34 year old male participating in Santa Rosa 70.3, Santa Cruz 70.3, or contemplating 2020 IM Mt. Tremblant, please disregard this post and continue to exclusively train in ERG mode).
Last edited by: wintershade: Jun 20, 19 13:45
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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I actually wrote a whole article about this that I need to go back and edit and finally post... Thanks for the reminder.

I don't disagree with anything that you wrote. Except that I don't actually see that as a reason to "quit" ERG mode. It's simply a reason to have a reason for using it or not using it.

I came from a somewhat different approach. When I first started using Zwift, I *never* used ERG mode. For all the reasons that you listed as reasons to "quit ERG." And in my case, I found that when I started using ERG mode, I actually made some of the exact same gains you did when you stopped using it.

Why?

Because the body responds to stimulus. In both cases, it was the change that made the difference. Take your #3, in particular. With ERG *on*, I was much better able to correlate RPE and power. Precisely because ERG keeps you from starting too hard and fading, it helped me to understand how much my RPE should increase over a long block. Or #2. With ERG *on*, I am better able to focus on posture and cadence, because I don't have to think about my power.

Ultimately, a smart trainer with ERG mode engaged is simply a tool to be used (or not) appropriately. If you only ever train with it on, yes, you need to turn it off. But discounting the enormous potential value of ERG mode is equally short sighted.

Using ERG mode absolutely has made me a better cyclist. But I think what has made the biggest difference has just been being thoughtful about how I train.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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We're all just experiments of one, but i tried erg mode once and hated it. I enjoy being involved in my rides, even when indoors at 4:45am. I might just be weird.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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My feeling is that ERG mode is the treadmill of cycling. A tool in the kit to use periodically but not the primary one, ignoring the aspect of the treadmill that is for those living with extreme winters up north.

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo
Last edited by: hadukla: Jun 20, 19 16:00
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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So would you say that a good compromise is use ERG during workouts 3-4 times a week and non-erg during Zwift races/group rides 2-3 times per week?
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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I like Jordan's perspective. I discovered ERG 5 years ago when I bought my Gen 1 Kickr. It transformed my training and intervals were never the same. I couldn't imagine doing workouts like Sufferfest Revolver w/out ERG. But I don't exclusively train in ERG. I mountain bike Fall/ Winter for bike handling and gear changing practice. I Zwift race constantly. I do long Zwift group rides. And I ride my TT bike outside every weekend on flat and hilly terrain. I'd absolutely hate not having ERG in my toolbox. Especially in mid-January for steady state work.

I understand the arguments for working on pedal stroke mechanics, etc. and "associative training" vs. "dissociative"/ check-your-brain-at-the-door Netflix training. But be careful because constant associative training leads to mental burnout. ERG definitely has it's place and I'll never give it up. And this also applies for Running and Swimming -- drills, and mentally being dialed into my form and closely focusing on the task at hand 100% of the time is crazy and it's not fun, for me at least.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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I don't have much of an issue focusing on form, cadence, etc in ERG mode when I'm on Trainer Road. This morning I alternated climbing cadence and fast turnover through a 95% FTP 10 min section and as always it really helped me focus on different parts of my stroke. And during the recovery intervals the Brooklyn 99 reruns were just as great as usual.

And on Zwift I couldn't imagine not using it. The variety is what keeps it interesting. Climbing feels like climbing. I credit getting a smart trainer with an ERG mode (and a coach whi knows how to utilize it) with getting me from an okay bike split to a top-ish AG bike split.

We're both right for ourselves, just putting the other side out there.

Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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My coach absolutely will not allow his atheletes to use erg mode. Ex TDF rider.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [ In reply to ]
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always hated ERG mode from Kickr v1 days... never used on again....
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [titemple652] [ In reply to ]
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I have only used ERG mode with TrainerRoad for the last 3 years I’ve had my kickr. 98% of my rides are on TR/Kickr. I placed 1st in my age group in the bike (35-39) in my last Ironman and regularly place top 5 in 70.3.

Instagram or twitter me softly @xatefrogg
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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No arguement with any of your points, but I think overall all the discussion about cycling technique and pedal stroke is over rated.

Bottom line is get watts up and get weight down. Whatever it takes to do that. I've met skinny guys from Holland with huge motors with zero hills anywhere nearby that fly up Alpe d'Huez. I don't think it takes much time (maybe 10 days max) going from an entire winter of erg mode to riding all kinds of terrain outdoors. Cycling is just not that technical a sport when it comes to pedaling (bike handling is another topic). Running and swimming are technical sports. You need to do those sports hard, with good technique with the full range of motion to do them well in racing. In cycling, the range of motion is identical and its just the muscle force and RPM which are changing as power varies....in the other two sports, the technique kind of changes at high speed (or at least it is very difficult to hold your easy form technique at high intensity)....in cycling, its all the same....we have gearing to help us and then its just mainly about Oxygen delivery.

To fully understand what I mean about what your legs doing being somewhat unimportant in cycling, you have read Tyler Hamilton's book about how "strong" his legs would feel after getting a blood bag on a Grand Tour rest day. It was just proof that the entire sport is about oxygen delivery, not what your legs do. So if you can use ERG mode to be able to deliver more oxygen to your body, while also reducing your overall body mass its a win win win.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [michaer27] [ In reply to ]
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michaer27 wrote:
So would you say that a good compromise is use ERG during workouts 3-4 times a week and non-erg during Zwift races/group rides 2-3 times per week?

Is this question in isolation of swim+bike or does it include other triathlon sports. Are you using ERG mode for recovery rides or for intensity rides.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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If you're fucked and breathing out your arse, you inevitably slow down, even if it's a fraction. ERG mode kind of stops that. I certainly wouldn't have pushed so hard in sessions without ERG mode. Whether that's good or bad, I don't know.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with all of these points. I see Erg mode as very similar to running on a treadmill. Both are best for extended, submaximal intervals where the goal is to work your muscular endurance and maintain an even pace. Both are poor in all the other respects.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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It is no coincidence that the sound you make when you vomit in your mouth is similar to the name of this torture apparatus.

Actually, I used to do a bit of erg once in a while for intervals but frankly if I need to be pushed to do the watts I'll just race on Zwift and have some fun nowadays. Too much of training (I'm looking at you, swimming) is repetitive and boring. Better to be engaged in what you are doing, for me at least.

I also used to fall back to erg now and again for longer indoor rides so that I could zone out and watch some shit on netflix, but now I much prefer to join a long group ride on Zwift with 3R or Vikings or something and volunteer for sweep duties. Man, sweeping really helps the hours to pass - I can do the 3R 100km ride on a Sunday morning and the 2hr 35m or whatever flies by in a jiffy. And I'm quite happy to add a bit of quality to my longer rides - I find noodling around in zone 2 a bit boring.

But hey we are all different.

For those who don't know what sweeping is in a Zwift group ride, it is when you voluntarily fall back to help people who have been dropped from the group. You assist them in your draft to bridge back up.

Cheers, Rich.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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These are among the reasons why I never started to use it but I can see it having a place in training
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [ In reply to ]
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Certainly not in opposition to what the OP wrote. Most of us are seeking what works for us. I started out with a KK fluid trainer and hated the thing so much that I did not want to train indoors. Next, I purchased E-motion rollers and my desire to train jumped up and I was on it everyday during the weekdays, but I kept reading posts from these upper Cat level cyclists about using ERG mode on a Computrainer and wondered what that would be like. The only thing about using the rollers was I had to watch Garmin or laptop display constantly because I would drift down from my training intensity target. Along came the Kickr so I got one. Since then I rarely get on the E-motion rollers. I like that the application to trainer control keeps me in the level that I am supposed to be in without having to focus on a laptop screen.

But I find that I don't have the same issue as the OP. On the weekend, weather permitting, I do a 4 to 6 hour endurance ride and Sunday a 40 mile / 2 hour ride. Since ERG mode has helped my performance I find that when I am on the road I am actually pacing better than I was when I was using a dumb trainer (2004-2014). So my N=1 has been the opposite experience since 2014. The two outdoor rides seem to be enough to balance it all out.

Going back to what I find was key to me is training on something and with something that inspires me to use it consistently.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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Great thread.

I think what is highlighted is that you cannot train exactly the same way all the time and expect to improve all the time. You have to constantly vary your training to improve. Some ERG, some 'not ERG', some outdoor easy, some outdoor hard/racing - its all valuable AND important.

I can hear the arguments about specificity already. Yes if you were training for an hour attempt you would spend a long time on the track and would look to increase your FTP as high as possible. But once the race had passed I bet the last thing you would do to go back to improving your road riding would be track work.

There is a coaching rule of thumb about changing things around every 6 - 8 weeks and I think that probably applies here. I bet if you spent 3 months training differently and then went back to 'ERG' mode you would find improvement again.

He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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It it wasn't for zwift and ERG mode I don't think I would know how to use my small ring. Seriously, in the midwest I don't climb. I hit some rollers but I have never had to actually switch to my small chain ring for anything outside. Until I started zwifting last year I road two years with never needing it. I think zwifting has made me more comfortable switching gears. I use ERG for tougher intervals that there is no way I would mentally get myself through and still hit targets. I also zwift race and just randomly do all my easier/recovery rides without structure. It's not an all or nothing thing. I am also a novice when it comes to cycling but have been able to transition a lot of my leg strength built from other sports to cycling. So, for me it's just building the endurance. I absolutely believe that ERG has helped. It helps me want to ride. Really isn't that the most important thing? If I'm able to push myself for a 90 min threshold workout in ERG mode vs a 60 min workout, won't that extra 30 min be of more benefit?

https://www.strava.com/athletes/23685202
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [Xatefrogg] [ In reply to ]
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I didn't know give out awards for the bike in triathlon ;)


Xatefrogg wrote:
I have only used ERG mode with TrainerRoad for the last 3 years I’ve had my kickr. 98% of my rides are on TR/Kickr. I placed 1st in my age group in the bike (35-39) in my last Ironman and regularly place top 5 in 70.3.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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There's a balance to it, just like anything. For a long time I only did my hard interval sessions using ERG mode either through PerfPro or TrainerRoad. Usually this was once a week, then i would do a second trainer ride with power targets but using resistance mode. This was usually more HIM power focused. Weekend rides are outside or using resistance mode riding some kind of course.

This year when I started using Zwift I think I have done 2 ERG mode rides total and everything just resistance mode while riding the profiles. Its been a welcome change and I've found myself pushing that extra little bit on the hard intervals that i wouldnt be doing in ERG mode intervals. Now that i dont do computrainer class rides anymore having the sprints and KOMs in Zwift has helped bring that competitive nature back into it that i was missing just doing ERG stuff on my own.

So what Rapp said, sometimes all you need is the change and the direction doesnt matter as much.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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I've used ERG mode for almost all of my indoor riding since I got my smart trainer for Christmas. I have found it to be a useful tool, especially for longer intervals as others have said. My FTP has continued to improve since Jan 1. However, your post definitely has me thinking about switching things up more often and trying some of those harder intervals without it. As others have said, it is about throwing new stimulus at your body and I definitely need to start changing things up now and then.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [Conky] [ In reply to ]
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No.

It’s not. It’s a reason to not be a dweller of your mom or spouse’s basement and or garage 99% of the time and to go outside and ride and do group or hammer rides.

Erg is fine in properly prescribed doses.

It’s not fine if you only ride that way 100% of the time.

I’d say it is fine to do it up to maybe 50% of your volume in erg. 3x8’s, pursuits, 2x20. But go chase some KOMs or do the weekly hammer ride to apply yourself.

Nothing wrong with avoiding erg altogether if and only if you have the discipline to get the intervals done.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [michaer27] [ In reply to ]
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michaer27 wrote:
So would you say that a good compromise is use ERG during workouts 3-4 times a week and non-erg during Zwift races/group rides 2-3 times per week?

I think that sounds like a mighty fine recipe for success...

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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for me ERG mode has made riding indoors tolerable again. I would not ride indoors if it were not for ERG mode.
FWIW. i have been racing bikes since 1989 (yes i am old), spent many years on the velodrome, many many years on my computrainer (not in erg mode) and am now on a Kicker

ERG mode on the Kicker is awesome IMO

My form, pedal stroke, perceived exertion, body position etc all take care of themselves from many years of experience and as i transition from indoor to outdoor every year in April
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [Conky] [ In reply to ]
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I do most of my indoor training using erg mode. But weekends I mostly ride outdoors. If I had a safer place to ride closer to home that I could ride after work during the week I would certainly do so. But there's no harm in turning off erg mode occasionally. although today is not that day. I just have an hour steady state ride so I'll set the watts and zone out with tv for an hour.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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ERG mode has been the secret weapon for a lot of athletes going back 30 years, from computrainer's earliest days. there's nothing wrong with ERG mode. there's everything great about ERG mode. but in my opinion it's not the mode, it's how you use it.

i don't just stick the thing in ERG mode and forget it. ERG mode on a smart trainer inside an interval workout is brilliant. also, you can't leave it there, let your cadence fall, and call it good because the power remains held.

if there is a problem, it's not with ERG mode. it's with the inability of a smart trainer to mimic, electronically, the flywheel effect. the flywheel allows you to experiment with torque profiles, optimizing yours. trainers can't or don't do that yet. you don't need a big flywheel. you need a big brain to write some good code. but that's the case whether you're in or out of ERG mode. it's the next thing stationary trainers need to solve.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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What the hell is this "ERG mode?" My KK fluid doesn't have any of that nonsense.

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Jordan -

Does it count as using ERG mode when you're just riding on Zwift? I use ERG mode for workouts but when I'm doing just open rides I will let my body control the power.

Or are you saying when you do open rides you ignore the "terrain"?
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [titemple652] [ In reply to ]
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titemple652 wrote:
My coach absolutely will not allow his atheletes to use erg mode. Ex TDF rider.

Let me guess: Also an ex-doper who tested positive twice* and is forbidden from riding even local races? He's a real example to follow... He might have some good ideas but this crusade of his is misguided.

*Actually one was an admission, not a test.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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This ^^^^^

ERG mode on a computrainer is GOLD! The problem I see is that people don't pay attention to all 3 legs of the stool ... cadence, power, HR ... if I want a strength workout I do this a low cadence, really big gear and whatever power I am working on. In general I work off of speed ... for example 20mph. This way I can drop cadence and have a guide. It actually takes a lot of focus to maintain all 3 but there is little cheating.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [Geek_fit] [ In reply to ]
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Geek_fit wrote:
Jordan -

Does it count as using ERG mode when you're just riding on Zwift? I use ERG mode for workouts but when I'm doing just open rides I will let my body control the power.

Or are you saying when you do open rides you ignore the "terrain"?

To clarify, ERG mode is *strictly* for workouts; it's when a block prescribes a specific power and the trainer adjusts resistance up/down (depending on your cadence) to keep power "steady."

When you're just riding around in Zwift and the trainer is responding to the terrain, that's "SIM" (simulation) mode.

For *workouts* (in Zwift), you have the choice of ERG mode or Incline mode (so called because the way you actually adjust trainer resistance is by sending the trainer a road gradient value - 1%, 1.5%, etc...).

If/when you're just riding around in Zwift and the resistance is adjusting to the "terrain" in Zwift, that is *not* ERG mode.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
If you're fucked and breathing out your arse, you inevitably slow down, even if it's a fraction. ERG mode kind of stops that. I certainly wouldn't have pushed so hard in sessions without ERG mode. Whether that's good or bad, I don't know.

Maybe you will, that doesn't mean I will. In fact the reason I don't use it is to be good at actively working to not ease up.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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You make a good point here Rappstar -- that the key is continually varying stimulus to force the body to continue to adapt. This makes a lot of sense as any time my training becomes too "routine" I stagnate. I also see you point how ERG mode can be a valuable tool in associative training (as you only have to focus on cadence/form rather than maintaining your power target). The problem as I see it, really creeks in with dissociative training, where you just tune out and pedal.

I think one important clarification with respect to my experience in ERG mode, is I started using it (almost exclusively) when I returned to cycling/triathlon after a nearly 10 year break due to injury/burnout. When started doing triathlon in my early 20s after being a single sport distance runner through college, I was broke and had no tools other than a HR monitor. So when I was "learning" how to ride a racing bike, I was naturally very dialed into how I felt.

When I had to "relearn" how to ride a racing back about 18 months ago and could afford all the fancy gadget, I went straight to ERG mode. With a young son, I also didn't have much time to ride outdoors. So most of my riding was indoors in ERG mode. I don't feel like I ever really developed the abilities to tune into my body in part due to ERG mode.

With the above said, I've seen a few old running buddies get into triathlon, and they just jump right into ERG mode all day every day. I think that's shortsighted. It's a bit like learning how to fly a plan only on autopilot without learning how to use all the various more "manual" instruments and gauges.

One thing I noted reading other's comments, is most of the people using ERG mode successfully were already well-trained triathletes/cyclists when they started with ERG. That makes sense to me. ERG for these athletes is another tool. But for newer athletes, I think there are a lot of dangers to ERG mode, especially if used in a dissociative fashion.

Moreover, I don't really understand the point of dissociation training at all. Life is too short to zone out. I want to be as fully present in what I'm doing, even if it's boring. Because even boredom, examined closely enough, can be interesting.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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In general, I'd bet that roadies and road racers have more of a balance of indoor/erg usage to outdoor/hammer riding than do triathletes. The variability of workouts required is just such that is the case. There's zero reason for a triathlete to ever do 30/30's, 1/1's, 15 sec sprints, or probably anything short of a pursuit interval. Pursuit distance and longer intervals are great in ERG.

I think that ERG works well for triathletes (or anyone) to break the mind of the RPE increase over time when you're still well within your "box" or "window" of target power.

Most true roadies are going to do a group or hammer ride weekly anyway. With anything from 100w sitting in to maybe a long break attempt, to a 500w surge over a roller, etc.... That satisfies the need to use what you've been building.

I find my outdoor environment too variable to be able to depend on it to tease out the physiological changes I want to see. I can't think of a single place I can do a 20min steady state effort and keep with +/- 10 or even 15w of effort that whole time. Stops signs, big downhills, etc.... At that power, even on a road bike......I'm traversing at least 7.5 miles plus hoping there isn't something to lower my power.

Also, in ERG you may be able to go a little deeper than worrying about getting nailed by a car because you're so far in the pain cave you didn't see it pull in front of you.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
michaer27 wrote:
So would you say that a good compromise is use ERG during workouts 3-4 times a week and non-erg during Zwift races/group rides 2-3 times per week?

I think that sounds like a mighty fine recipe for success...

but only if you absolutely bury yourself in Zwift, no matter what ;-)
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with all your points. But I don’t think you have to ride your trainer in ERG mode where it holds a steady power target for you. I’m still doing a fair bit of riding my trainer for time efficiency purposes, but I now ride it in slope mode, leave it set “level 1” and then shift through my gears as I would on the road.

What is really like to figure out how to do, is set the trainer to simulate the slopes of real terrain to make the torque curve / gearing even more realistic, but that’s an post season project.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
or Incline mode (so called because the way you actually adjust trainer resistance is by sending the trainer a road gradient value - 1%, 1.5%, etc...).

That's interesting... Is there any way to get Zwift to send a different gradient?

I ask as whilst I'd really like to do some free rides on Zwift there's a big difference in inertia. ie. riding at ~-3% on Zwift feels like riding at 0% in the real world, conversely riding zwift on a flat 0% feels like a 3% hill. That all goes away when I'm in ERG mode & the flywheel is spinning nicely.

nb. This isn't trainer difficulty, it's not the range of gears that's the issue.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [SteveM] [ In reply to ]
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I don’t use Zwift but I would if it could do what I think you’re describing.

My holy grail would be downloading a GPX file of a course and riding it on my trainer such that the incline/slope of the trainer matched the real world... and assuming I had the same cassette on both my bike and trainer, I’d be in the same gear on the trainer as I would be outside and could really dial-in my race plan and build highly race-specific workouts.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
michaer27 wrote:
So would you say that a good compromise is use ERG during workouts 3-4 times a week and non-erg during Zwift races/group rides 2-3 times per week?


Is this question in isolation of swim+bike or does it include other triathlon sports. Are you using ERG mode for recovery rides or for intensity rides.

This includes periods with swimming & running, but run volume is very low right now.

ERG for both.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
michaer27 wrote:
So would you say that a good compromise is use ERG during workouts 3-4 times a week and non-erg during Zwift races/group rides 2-3 times per week?


I think that sounds like a mighty fine recipe for success...

Thanks!
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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It’s almost like you’d get the same stimulus if you road in a group occasionally. Like outside. Like with cyclists. That requires change of pace to stay in the group. Etc.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [triguy86] [ In reply to ]
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triguy86 wrote:
It’s almost like you’d get the same stimulus if you road in a group occasionally. Like outside. Like with cyclists. That requires change of pace to stay in the group. Etc.

I agree it’s probably a good idea to get outside and ride but I just wonder how many different stimulus a person needs. Even in ERG mode, most plans have a variety of different workouts which provide different stimulus. I will say I’ve recently moved from a city with completely flat terrain to a place with much more variety of elevation. For training and hitting my workout Watts, the flat terrain was great. Where I’m at now with far more hills, it’s definitely a different workout. Whether that translates to improved results that is TBD
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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wintershade wrote:
I don’t use Zwift but I would if it could do what I think you’re describing.

My holy grail would be downloading a GPX file of a course and riding it on my trainer such that the incline/slope of the trainer matched the real world... and assuming I had the same cassette on both my bike and trainer, I’d be in the same gear on the trainer as I would be outside and could really dial-in my race plan and build highly race-specific workouts.

Have you created an account on best bike split? They have 4 or 5 free downloads before you've got to pay, and will create several different formats of your power plan for a specific race course. I was able to create a trainer road workout for my power plan, but that is just power matching. There is a zwift (beta) download option, but I have no idea how closely it matches the actual course.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
ERG mode has been the secret weapon for a lot of athletes going back 30 years, from computrainer's earliest days. there's nothing wrong with ERG mode. there's everything great about ERG mode. but in my opinion it's not the mode, it's how you use it.

i don't just stick the thing in ERG mode and forget it. ERG mode on a smart trainer inside an interval workout is brilliant. also, you can't leave it there, let your cadence fall, and call it good because the power remains held.

if there is a problem, it's not with ERG mode. it's with the inability of a smart trainer to mimic, electronically, the flywheel effect. the flywheel allows you to experiment with torque profiles, optimizing yours. trainers can't or don't do that yet. you don't need a big flywheel. you need a big brain to write some good code. but that's the case whether you're in or out of ERG mode. it's the next thing stationary trainers need to solve.

Fully agree! ERG mode is great! It is not about the mode, it is about the training program. I do 100% ERG :-)
Sam
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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What is ERG? and GOOD on you for the improvements - grats!
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I love erg mode. I've lived there for my indoor training since I discovered it. It more than anything else has made it possible for me to push through longer and more difficult sessions, and I've had vast improvements on the bike using it. That said, I still do get outside for long training rides in places where I'm challenged by wind, false flats, questionable road conditions, and I commute through the city on a hybrid a few days a week, which helps with bike handling issues.

I do think it could be one of those things that depends on the athlete. It works for me, and has driven me to FOP on bike. I believe I'm just wired in a way that giving up control to an outside element in training pushes me without screwing me up on race day.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [Jelana] [ In reply to ]
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I'm with you....ERG Mode lover here too.

I've put in almost 25k miles on zwift (95% at least in ERG in workout mode)
Wrong sized cranks on the trainer (172 trainer, race on 155s)
Never ever ride in aero (maybe 5 seconds a week out of 8-10 hours a week)
I forgo group rides outside for 2 hours on the trainer in ERG mode
Watch TV, mostly Youtube and cycling stuff while on the trainer
Don't focus at all on my pedal stroke
Haven't done an FTP test since October 2016 (but have a general idea of where I'm at FTP wise; 305-310
Went from MOP to FOP on the bike after finding Zwift in 2015

And....it works for me. Went 58 minutes in an Olympic on Sunday. Oh and I have zero issues powering up every hill and out of every turn.
Went 2:19 at Choo 70.3 last month.

I like to ride zwift in Erg mode and turn off the brain and watch whatever in the basement. It works for me better than riding outdoors. Too many variables for me outdoors unless you're racing or climbing.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [ In reply to ]
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I'm honestly a little bit in both camps. I love erg mode and ever since I got the cycleops hammer a couple of years back I've loved using it with TR, which is funny because I originally got the trainer to have a more immersive zwift racing experience. I have an 8 speed road bike and shifting and finding the right gear/cadence/power combo was a bit of a pain and erg mode made doing workouts with power targets so enjoyable for me.Just this past winter I've gone from a 275 ftp to about 310 (I don't test, just kept bumping up as workouts felt easier). However, there is something to be said about trying to hit power targets on the road where you have to focus on the gearing, different cadences, etc to hit power and I'm pretty bad at that, at least when it comes to anything higher than endurance. I did a 100mile ride this past weekend (solo) and averaged 189w, 207w NP, 0.67 IF, and maintaining over 70% was pretty challenging for me on the road, whereas it's always been less challenging in ERG mode. So yeah, I see the benefits of doing ERG mode but I personally feel I need to get myself out of it and work on replicating stuff outdoors when I have to engage my whole mind and body.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [347CX] [ In reply to ]
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Erg mode can be da bomb ! I love erg mode for building fitness through interval training, 1-20 minutes in duration. As much as I'd like to say that I can hit the trainer in the AM and just focus on the pain, I do much better with something else to watch, netflix, youtube, etc. That said, I don't like ERG for short intervals since I like the work needed to spin up the Kickr for 30 sec hits. The main shortcoming for ERG mode is that it does not build the sense of pacing needed to hold an average wattage for 60-300 minutes over varied terrain. Eventually we all need to ride our bikes outside.

Brian
“Eat and Drink, spin the legs and you’re going to effin push (today).” A Howe
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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Since I started using ERG mode, I've had a considerable decline year-on-year in my performance.

MY ride time increased, specificity increase, but it never really resulted in anything tangible.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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Bkool software can do that, I uploaded a couple of local routes that I used regularly so that I could do them through the winter. I was slightly quicker on the turbo but there wasn't much in it.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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As a general remark: I don't understand how people can claim to do ERG workouts and watch netflix at the same time. To me, that means that either the workout isn't hard enough or you're seeing moving pictures but aren't processing them. The only external stimulation that works for me during a proper ERG workout is blaring punk rock at volume levels unacceptable to the rest of my household (and this includes the cat).

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [Richard Blaine] [ In reply to ]
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Richard Blaine wrote:
As a general remark: I don't understand how people can claim to do ERG workouts and watch netflix at the same time. To me, that means that either the workout isn't hard enough or you're seeing moving pictures but aren't processing them. The only external stimulation that works for me during a proper ERG workout is blaring punk rock at volume levels unacceptable to the rest of my household (and this includes the cat).
Subtitled French cinema noir? No. But Michael Bay films were made for VO2 max efforts.
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [michaer27] [ In reply to ]
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I believe that the "ERG MODE" is an excellent tool for shorter intervals, like 8x3' @270w / 2' @200w. It allows you to keep the right wattage, but the time is so short that you are not able to distract yourself with something like Netflix. But for longer intervals, more then 10 or 15 minutes, I like to turn off the erg mode and try to focus on keeping the right power.

RIDE ON!
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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wintershade wrote:
I agree with all your points. But I don’t think you have to ride your trainer in ERG mode where it holds a steady power target for you. I’m still doing a fair bit of riding my trainer for time efficiency purposes, but I now ride it in slope mode, leave it set “level 1” and then shift through my gears as I would on the road.

What is really like to figure out how to do, is set the trainer to simulate the slopes of real terrain to make the torque curve / gearing even more realistic, but that’s an post season project.


I am preparing for an alps cycling trip, and as a part of that I have been playing around with the Kickr simulation mode for the first time ever (had one or another for 5 years). I have enjoyed that it gives you back the gearing consideration, so it is nice to get in the little gears, crank the slope up to 7-10% and just see how long i can go without tiring out. It is interesting to watch how your wattage fluctuates at different slope %s. I then have erg mode set at an easy recovery wattage, so when i am ready for a break i just swipe over to erg and relax for a few minutes, then start over.

I have also found that 10-12% on the kickr feels pretty similar to 10-12% out on some of the pitchy little hills in my area.
Last edited by: milkman1982: Jun 26, 19 11:50
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Re: Why you need to "quit" ERG mode... [TriathlonJoe] [ In reply to ]
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Same here. ERG has been a complete game changer for me. I dropped 3 minutes in my sprint tri (first race of the season early this month) due to it.

I agree with the similarity to it being on a treadmill -- but that's not a bad thing. I ran my half and full marathon PR's off of primarily treadmill workouts. It allows you to get in a groove and get use to pacing.

And for me, it applies outside too. I just did a 30 minute effort at 105% FTP on an extended climb (CO) and looking at my 5s, 1 minute and 20 minute power averages I was all +/- 10-15W as I was able to hone in on what the goal wattage felt like. Last year, I would be all over, +/- 40-50W.
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