following
I sold my Cross bike a year or so ago, and now the wife has renewed her interest in trail riding. (smartly she kept her bike)
so now I'm toying with picking up a cheaper gravel rig.(because you know... excuse for new bike!)

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Entry level aluminum CX bikes with 2x and 32t capacity in the rear. Jack (& Jill) of all trades (EDIT: If buying used)

I have a Motobecane Fantom Cross Outlaw. Tiagra components, spent $800 on it 3 years ago. It works great and currently on 35mm tires, I could probably go 40 but no bigger, but where I am, there is no need to go bigger. My only regret (and really big regret) was for an additional $500 I could of had the titanium version.

For the most part a CX bike would work just fine, if you don't want to drop a ton of money I'd look for a used bike or bikesdirect bike. If possible get disc brakes. I did some comparisons after my Motobecane (because of course I'm looking for reasons to upgrade), for the most part the geometry of a XC bike vs a true gravel bike is not a lot. There are differences but for the most part, nothing much. Another option is just to get a hardtail 29er mtn bike and put some 1.9 or 2.0 inch tires on it.

To add comfort I double taped the handlebars.

I bought a VR30 for my wife from this ebay seller (made an offer below asking price and they accepted). I'd prob go for something like this if I was you (105 hyd disc brake).

https://www.ebay.com/...047675.c100005.m1851

In simplest terms, you are looking for a cyclocross bike.
Any bike will do.

Hydro disc > mech discs > cantis (although some love cantis)

tire size larger than 32c

MTB pedals and shoes

So.. whatever fits your budget

Look around for a new-ish used 'cross bike on craigslist, ebay, classifieds that hits your price point. Gravel bikes are the rage and I've seen more cross bikes being let go for those jumping ship. Personally, I sold the road bike and picked up a used Giant TCX and have it set with a wheelset that has 42mm WTB Resolutes and have a set of road wheels on the way for an easy swap.

Gravel bikes run the gamut from mountain bike-like bikepacking bikes to road-bike like racy setups. You can pick what style of bike best fits the riding you want to do. There are hundreds of options. For regular rail trail / crushed gravel riding, pretty much anything will do. In general, I'd go with discs and room for at least 45s. Everything else is debatable.

Contrary to the posters above, I would not recommend a traditional CX racing bike for most people who want to do gravel events or ride lots of fire roads / farm roads. Traditional CX bikes are designed for 1 hour all-out racing efforts on slick courses, not for the longer, slower riding most people riding gravel are doing. Racing CX bikes typically have aggressive handling (more aggressive than even road racing bikes to handle tight CX turns), very short wheelbases, high bottom brackets and very short head tubes that result in large saddle-to-bar drops. All of this results in a very agile and responsive bike that can also be both twitchy and uncomfortable. Also, CX-specific gearing is often too tightly grouped for hilly gravel riding and CX tires are not very good for riding gravel as the tread is often too heavy.

Of course, many manufacturers are now offering longer / slacker bikes that can fit wide tires and calling them "CX bikes", so the traditional template isn't universally true. In general, ignore the labeling of the bike ("gravel racing", "adventure", "bikepacking", "cross", "road plus" etc) and focus on the geometry and features.

I agree with the comments re: CX bikes. There are a lot of gravel specific bikes out there these days, I don't think OP should look for a CX bike unless he's on a budget and buying older/used.

At the low end of the gravel spectrum look at the Fuji Jari and the Diamondback Haanjo. Both are well reviewed around here for good bang for your buck. I got the former when Performance was having big sales.

I'll agree with that. If he is going new get a gravel specific bike. If he is going used or budget used cx (or discount online). I've changed a few things to make my xc as much as a gravel bike as it can be but I can't change the frame.

I did notice on Trek's website, the Crockett and Boone are listed under both the CX page and the gravel page.

Then again, 2 years ago Trek also had the Emonda listed under gravel...

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"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

Not Warbird specifically....but the specificity of it all is getting a bit ridiculous. Find a bike that 1 )Fits you well, 2) Can accommodate the tire width you're looking for, and 3 )Is in your price range. Call it your bike and go ride while being comfortable and having fun riding with your wife.

My riding buddy has the Ti version and loves it. He was just saying this past weekend that although he has a slight itch to upgrade, he can't justify it given how well the Motobecane just works for him.

To the OP - I ride an older (2012?) Specialized Tricross https://www.specialized.com/...apex-compact/p/37229
Not the flashiest bike at races I've done, but it's solid, handles well and has clearance for at least 700cx42mm tires IME. There's a 2014 56cm on Ebay right now for $660 https://www.ebay.com/...xis-2-0/401760300127

Sigh...rub it in.

I can't recommend this bike enough:

https://www.rodeo-labs.com/td3/

It is a bike that is super versatile and can really rip on basically anything you have the tires for.

The photos show it with MTB 2.1 or 2.2 tires on it. But I ride with a group from Rodeo Labs every Tuesday and they run really well with anything.

Worth a look in any case.

jake

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Get outside!

I'll add to the chorus saying don't go CX... rules dictate they don't run wider than 33mm tires for those races, so you are likely losing some versatility there (though you can for sure squeeze a little wider tires on most CX bikes). I (a small female) just bought a Canyon Grail in March, and absolutely love it. Get a matching pair, his and hers. Boom. The value for money is good. Not 'cheap', but life is short. Buy the nice bike.

Looks good, but... $2,700 frame only. For a bike you plan on riding over rough ground. Ouch.

I'll be getting on one of them soon. Possibly sell both my CX and Road bike with that bike here in CO.

To address the comment about not going CX bike, I currently have a Canyon Inflite CF LX 9.0. I ride it everywhere. It currently has Panaracer GK SK Slicks on it in a 700x38 with plenty of clearance. I have run WTB Cross Boss's in a 34, Panaracer GK's in a 35, WTB Exposure in 30's and 32's. All tires have worked very well and this bike gets ridden everywhere. Fairly certain I could get more rugged tire in a 40 on here and still be ok. My point being, that most new CX bikes do have plenty of space bigger tires.




I still think the Trail Donkey is one of the best options out there.


Jake

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Get outside!

Last year I found a Haanjo Comp on sale, for under $900, brand new
hydro disc brakes, 1x with 40 chain ring and 11-42 SRAM Apex , HED Components, came with Kenda 42s

I've used it for casual rides, mtb trails, gravel 'races', CX races

Right now I have gravel slicks on (28s), and it's my primary road bike

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TEAM F3 Undurance

Definitely going to look at those!
Ty everyone.

they are panaracer gravel king 28s, and they are essentially my road tire right now. They'll likely be replaced with 32s or even bigger. looking at challenge strada Bianca next.

it's funny how the 28s look too skinny on bikes with so much tire clearance.

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TEAM F3 Undurance

For gravel, comfort should be a consideration. A 60+ mile gravel race on chunky stuff can be brutal on the typical "gravel bike" running ~40mm tires. If you wife isn't a gluten for punishment, I'd strongly suggest something that will take MTB tires of 2.0 or bigger. I personally race gravel on a full suspension XC bike rather than my cross bike because it's just more fun and I'm fairly competitive on it unless it's a really smooth fast course. Racing the mtb is a slog on smooth sections, but I can hang in a fast group in the draft (bike has full lockout) and them I'm inflicting the pain when we get to the rough stuff. Drop bars would be nice, but I don't think the bike holds me back otherwise. I think the future of gravel is larger tires and short travel suspension (at least in front) with drop bars.

You bring up a good point on the chunky gravel. Depending on the area, gravel is completely different. My area is mainly crushed limestone and fairly smooth, you can almost get by with 25s if you can avoid the freshly laid gravel. Now 2 hours west of me the gravel is more like river rock. Boy that is much different and you want thicker tires. 2 hours north of me is pretty much iron ore.

Relevant to my interests--thanks for starting this thread.

/r

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Steve

The world is your oyster these days. My "gravel" bike is a CX bike with 40c tires. If I were buying new, I would strongly consider 650B.

On a budget at the more MTB-end of the gravel spectrum, the Nukeproof Digger looks pretty cool: https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/...e-2019/rp-prod170305

On the more road end of the spectrum, there are tons and tons of options at all price points.

Definitely thinking something I can run 38/40 on

What is a good cyclocross option with rim brakes and bigger tires that could double as a road bike?

Non Disc brake version of a Crux is a good option in my opinion.

WHY??!!!!

cx bikes w rim brakes generally don’t take “bigger tires” than maybe 32-34 range.

Which going forward, are actually pretty small for gravel, etc.
Hell, many road bikes are now being optimized for 26-28 tires.

You’re looking to buy an anachronism, that will only fall further out of date every moment you own it.

My new 2018 road bike “only” takes 26’s and I wish I could fit larger tires on it already.

My cx/gravel steed takes 38’s, and ditto.

Both are disk brakes, and I never, ever for a single moment ever wish I had rim brakes on either bike.

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float , hammer , and jog

Partially because I'm going to have to do two of these at one time one for the wife one for me so there is a little bit of a budget.

Anyone have a Fuji jari??? How well does it double as a Rd bike.?

I have the gravel bike itch also. The ones on my list so far, starting from roughly the least expensive are

Diamondback Haanjo
Fuji Jari
Cannondale Topstone 105
Canyon Grail (aluminum)

The Topstone and Grail are around $1,750-$1,800 in the models I’m considering and seem to have pretty similar specs. If anyone sees noteworthy differences between these two, please share. REI carries the Topstone, meaning I would get 10% back as a dividend.

I wouldn't get anything that can't run a 45 tire

Love my trek Checkpoint with WTB Riddler 45s

If looking used, be careful, most cannot accommodate larger tires

I have 2 friends that have the carbon Trek Checkpoint. They use this bike for gravel and road rides.

https://www.trekbikes.com/...s/checkpoint/f/F224/

great pic

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I was hoping to not spend a ton of money but I think that went out the window as I see a legitimate reason to get one of the bikes that have disc brakes now for both me and my wife. Now I'm researching trying to find something that will fit her properly cuz I would like it to double is her road bike as well. Years ago when she got her first road bike the dealership just jammed her onto a bike that was way too big and does not fit her well at all. She's 5-2 and the current bike has a reach of 377 and a top tube of 53 and 1/2.

Anyone have any thoughts on the top stones geometry and doubling as a road bike.

I rode a Topstone 105 this weekend at a LBS, although I was only able to ride it on pavement, not gravel. Very nice bike and it would serve perfectly fine as a road bike, even with the standard 40 wide tires. I found the seat pretty uncomfortable, and it seemed a little heavy even for an aluminum bike. I'm guessing it's the rims and wider tires. Other than that, I could easily see it being a do-it-all kind of bike.

I'm leaning towards the Canyon Grail AL 7.0 vs the Topstone 105. The Grail comes with lighter wheels and, hopefully a more comfortable seat. Only downside I can see to the Grail is the pressfit bottom bracket, whereas the Topstone is threaded.

Sounds like the Checkpoint can't actually accommodate 45s? I found the discussion below.

http://ridinggravel.com/...-any-remedy-10056985

45's fit just fine on my '18 Trek Checkpoint

UPDATE: I found a used Topstone 105 for sale locally. It was an early 2018 model that has Ultegra shifters and brakes. Guy had only ridden it a few times, so it’s basically a new bike. Time to take it to the trails.

Nice! How much was it? Pics?

This is a good thread. Literally looking for the past week...and boom, this post appears. Have REI, Trek, and Chain reaction near by (near is 500 miles away, but that’s what it takes to get out of this town to one with a LBS).

My wife got a topstone 105 as an N-1 bike and she loves it. The geometry works great for road riding, and can easily clear the 40's that come on the bike. It could probably clear 45's, but would be a touch tight. One knock would be that the stock wheels are pretty heavy, but nice and wide for proper gravel tires. We'll be getting her a nice set of light wheels ~20 mm internal width for road rides and use the WTB wheels for gravel/ cross tires.

So I'm looking at the Raleigh Willard 4. It comes with a pretty decent setup for the price but what would I need to take into consideration for a second set of wheels for road tires. Is there anything specific I need to know?

Why not get the TopStone 105 for a little more? Hydraulic brakes and the newer 105 group set, minus the crankset. After having hydraulic discs on my mountain bikes, it would be hard to go with mechanical disc. Buy it from REI and get 10% back as a dividend.

I'll have to take another look at it. What's the deal with the seat post? Can that be locked out for road rides?

I recently picked up a Canyon Grail Al 7.0

Overall, it's a very nice bike for the money. Rival equipment, everything you need for tubless set up (outside of sealant), rides well both on and off road and handles very well.

I went with the 1x11 set up and found the 42 front with 10x42 rear cassette is more than enough gearing for most people. I don't spin out on the road until around 39 mph, but have gearing for 20% grinds. The jumps between gears are a little large on the road, but I don't notice it as much as I thought it would.

With two bottle holders, computer mount, egg beater pedals, a 100mm stem and set up tubless … my size small comes in at 20.05 pounds. Though, I will say, their sizes are larger than they sound. I would say the size small is between a 54cm and 56cm, I generally ride 54cm road bikes, but this bike is bigger than my 54cm TCR … which is good because I need the drop with the bars, but the extended reach.

The 38c Schwalbe tires are wide for a 38c tire … they are wider than my friends 40c WTB's by a fair amount … which may be due to slightly wider inner diameter rims (22mm I believe).

Great value for the money.

I picked mine up to get me off the road more as it's getting more and more dangerous to ride around where I live. I also enjoy the off road aspect of gravel/light trail riding, and may do some gravel races next season.

The extra bonus is it works well as a back up or winter bike, with full fender mounts, ability to run wide, lower pressure tires.

Has she tried using her road bike on the rail trail? It might just need some 25 or 28 tires and be just fine. People rode down dirt roads just fine before gravel bikes.

Yes we have and it's going to actually be a solution to another problem which is her current bike is way too big. So we're thinking a properly fitting disc brake bike that can serve two purposes.

Perfect. If it is hilly maybe consider two chain rings in the front otherwise you can probably get away just fine with something like a 38 or a 40 single ring and some big cog in the back. I ride a cyclocross bike for all kinds of things I think some of the objections people had to the handling or geometry might be somewhat overstated I wouldn't dismiss the idea of a cyclocross bike

Also I wanted to mention if you are a bargain shopper cantilever brake cyclocross bikes are very affordable now you can buy something very high-end for $1,000. I do cyclocross bikes for junior riders and I've been finding some great bargains lately I got my daughter on a gorgeous carbon pinarello for next to nothing.

Test rode a Giant Revolt Advanced 2 yesterday, loved it. Couldn't take it offroad, but nailed some potholes in the parking lot and it soaked them up nicely, even with the stock 40c tires at 50psi. It can fit 45's and 650b's. The 2019 2 comes with Giant's Conduct brake system, mech actuated hydro, but the 2020's are coming full 105 hydro. Not bad for just a bit over $2k.

So after ordering the Raleigh Willard 4 through two different places including Raleigh only to find out that all the inventory was gone and having my money refunded twice we eventually did track one down.
Bike came the other day and then after a hour struggle of trying to figure out why the disc in the front was actually coming in contact with the front fork we discovered there was a part of the front hub not sure whether to call it a cap or a bushing let's just call it a spacer LOL missing.
But all said and done wife and I had first gravel ride today unexpectedly hit about a mile and a half of a very large rocks but I definitely get why so many people enjoy this.

Anyone ride or look at the Orbea Terra? Currently considering this bike. Would be interested in anyone's experience or opinion...

I am curious if anyone knows of a 11speed cassette that's shimano compatible with a 36 tooth cassette? Trying to get ready for the crusher in the Tushar and want to go for a 1:1 ratio.

SRAM is the only company that makes an 11-36, its compatible with shimano

Yep, you can always tell where the new gravel is. I had a group ride Saturday, we were cruising along at 15-16mph average no issues. Then we hit a 1 mile stretch where they very recently laid new thick gravel, we dropped to a solid 8-10mph. Even the bigger tires were struggling because the rocks were just moving underneath you.

Cool thanks. Clearly I didn't know if it would be compatible. Don't know why it wouldn't but didn't want to spend the money. Now I just gotta survive 10K vert.

The guys behind Litespeed have a new brand focusing on carbon bikes called Ocoee. The Ocoee Boundary seems to be a good value for the money. 105 groupset for $2450 with a 48/32 up front and Panaracer Gravel King SK 700x43 tubeless by default. They say it fits up to 45mm with sufficient room for fenders. The Ultegra Di2 version for $3850 seems like a real bargain. Never heard of them before last week.

I've traded a handful of emails with the National Sales Manager for Quintana Roo, Litespeed and Ocoee regarding the Boundary (mechanical Ultegra). I've been very impressed with him as well as the bike. Fairly close to pulling the trigger.

https://ocoeebikes.com/...anza-you-gotta-do-it

SunRace as well...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

The Terra is a sweet ride. It was my first choice bike before I found a local deal I couldn't pass up.

I've been looking at most of these bikes listed on this thread as I'm about to pull the trigger and buy a gravel bike. I keep coming back to a choice between two aluminum models as I don't really feel that carbon is worth it for me as an entry level bike. The debate is between the Cannondale Topstone 105 and Canyon Grail Al 7.0. The Topstone seems like a great value at $1750 (with possibly 10% returned on an REI dividend - anyone know for sure if this bike qualifies for that dividend?). The Topstone has a threaded bottom bracket, 105 groupset (except cranks), hydraulic brakes, and presumably will be assembled and set up for me by REI with a good return policy. The only drawbacks I see are some complaints about the wheelset (WTB ST i23 TCS) being heavy, but at that price I can understand that.

On the other hand, the Canyon Grail AL 7.0 is similarly priced with full 105 groupset, a carbon seatpost, and (?) maybe a better wheelset (DT Swiss C 1850). The downside I hear about the Canyon is the pressfit bottom bracket. I'm not super familiar with how big of a disadvantage that is in practical riding so would love to hear any input from the experts on here about that issue. Also, the Canyon is currently not in stock in the color I like and I would have to do some assembly and pray that I don't need to return it. Any thoughts on these two bikes would be greatly appreciated as I'm going back in forth on them on a daily basis. I should just buy one and be done with it!

Those are the exact two bikes I was choosing between, for the same reasons you mentioned. I ended up with the Topstone only because someone local was selling a used one. I probably would have ended up buying the Canyon otherwise.

It's usually a maintenance annoyance but not a serious issue. There are cases where a poorly-built bore can become seriously problematic, but it's not the norm.

I generally prefer a 68mm BSA shell over any other, but that's mostly a matter of support and setup versatility. It's about the closest thing there is to a "standard", and it's effortlessly compatible with almost everything.

This is really what matters. Get the Topstone.

I am super happy with my Raleigh Willard 4 it's a hell of a lot of bike for what I paid for it.

Would any of you take your gravel bikes on non-technical single tracks. Out here in Philly, I (as a cumbersome roadie) have issues navigating my FS MTB on some of the trails. But we are moving to Madison, and from what I can tell, some of the trails they use for actual XC MTB races are tame in comparison. Would you guys think a dedicated gravel bike (with, say 27.5 wheels) would handle it?

For reference, this is footage from one of the courses. I don't expect to navigate through it as well as this person is doing, but if it's doable in a safe manner, then it'd really be a plus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw_lVhCV-eY

I’m not gonna sit thru 1:41 of GoPro vid, but the little bits I l did watch, makes that look completely non-technical.
Saw zero rocks, roots, downed trees, etc - looked smooth and flowy.

No reason you couldn’t ride a gravel bike on that.

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float , hammer , and jog

Hard to tell, but as some of the video isn't the best, you won't really know till you get out there. Overall could a gravel bike handle it, yes, would it be ideal no. If you go mtn biking in northern Wisconsin (CAMBRA trails) you will want a mtn bike.

thanks, and apologies for the long video

Delving into more of it, one could certainly handle on a gravel bike on the straighter sections. The twisty stuff, perhaps not as much


thanks

btw, do you do MTB in Wisconsin? if so, how would you characterize the competition? i'm suprised/impressed that each category has 120 competitors showing up, which is quite a bit more than what I see here in the more densely populated East Coast.

I don't I live one state over (Minnesota). I don't race just ride mtn bikes when I want to switch it up from gravel. I actually just have a fat bike with a 29er wheelset. You'll find that mtn biking is pretty big here in the upper midwest and come winter everyone will be xc sking or fat biking. So I'd take the assumption that competition is pretty tough but I honestly have no idea.

Also just for fun you should sign up for chequamegon 40, its a fun race, its actually more of a big party than a race. Not technical but fun.

Finally, once you get to Wisconsin, don't plan on shitting for a few weeks, you'll eat more cheese in the first week then you ever have in your life.