Then you won't be racing most WTC races.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I've done my fair share of WTC races and in the past decade plus and only seen a draft pack, as shown in Texas, once.

I wasn't there last year but this year seemed really reasonable to me. I was towards the front in the 4:4x:xx area. There were relatively legal pacing lines with 12m spacing and I saw no packs of riders blatantly drafting. As per usual there's always a 'clinger' that will suck a wheel around the 3-8m distance but those are "1 offs" in every race. From my vantage point the race was clean. And importantly the distance was a legit 112 miles unlike the 108-109 distance last year. Glenn Bohannon's group did a great job.

Good to hear!

I raced this year. I personally didn't see any huge packs like 2018, but there were definitely some smaller packs. I got swallowed up by a group of about 15 fairly early on the Hardy Toll road, and I hung back to let them blow by me. When I passed the first penalty tent, the entire group was in there. Every penalty tent I passed had people in it, and I saw marshals out on the course quite a bit. I think the fact that they were so visible and they were nailing people may have deterred more people.

This is great to hear. After last year's fiasco I never wanted to come back. But if they were able to legitimately police the course and actually keep the packs from forming, then maybe I'll take another crack at it.

My time from last year, staying out of the packs, would have gotten me a KQ this year. But last year I was 40th in AG.

Looks like overall the times are much more in line with "reality" (vs everyone who pack-rode themselves to a time they couldn't otherwise hope to attain)

In that video, were those "speed limited" zones or something?

Last year was a shorter course and I'm guessing much better wind conditions. Not downplaying your abilities, just saying there were other factors in play.

Of course, you can't compare the two exactly due to all sorts of factors. But the difference in AG placement for that time between this year and last year (40th vs 8th) is pretty staggering.

Which WTC races have you done that you HAVEN'T seen a draft pack?

Also, where are you in said races meaning fop mop bop?

I'm genuinely curious. I haven't been in a single wtc race that hasn't had huge draft packs. It's a big part of why I try to support smaller independent races. I love the show WTC puts on so it's be neat to do a race without drafting

I raced IMTX in 2018 and again this year. From what I saw, the drafting problem was sufficiently addressed. I personally saw 8 blue card penalties given by marshals, and each time I passed the penalty tents they were full of people. As others said, I saw some drafting, but not huge packs.

I saw marshals all over the course, and I thought the Hardy Toll Road was well marked by cones to separate the lane for vehicles, northbound and southbound.

Overall, I was impressed with the outcome vs 2018, and I'll definitely be back. Hopefully a bit less wind next year :-)

In fairness most of my WTC race experience is in the northeast quadrant where the terrain is hillier, which obviously tends to work against draft packs. Of the 3X I've done Lake Placid 140.6 -- once I saw a draft pack on the out & back next to the river. It was actually quite funny cause there was a guy in the middle of the pack wearing a Yellow jersey and I yelled at them, "This isn't the Tour de France!" It did make a strong impression on me cause I'd never seen a draft pack like that before; and quite honestly, I've thankfully never seen one since.

Of the three flat WTC events I've done, 1X IMLOU, 3X @ Eagleman 70.3, 1 X AC 70.3 I've honestly never seen a draft pack! Yes, I've seen the occasional two to three-man wheel suckers flyby; but never a draft pack. 2X at Tremblant 140.6 I honestly saw zero drafting at all. I've also raced Ironman 1 X Poconos, 2X Rhode Island, 1X Syracuse and saw zero drafting -- and sadly all these races are no defunct. I've raced Quassy 70.3 4X (now Ironman Connecticut) and there was never a sniff of drafting, and I suspect that won't change under WTC due to the hilly nature for the course.

I'm an average MOP cyclist. My Bike times for a full IM range from 6:00 to 6:20 / 70.3 times range from 2:40 to 3:10.

All this positive feedback puts IMTX back on my list of potential future WTC races. Thanks for sharing your experience.

I spent a few hours spectating on the Hardy in both 2018 and 2019.

People need to remember that the crapshow last year was a direct result of the Prince of Bahrain's entourage -- the cops pulled all motos from the course. It wasn't like Ironman just decided not to have any marshals show up that day. That said, it was both frustrating and terrifying to watch, knowing how dangerous those situations can be anyway, but especially on concrete. One woman fractured her skull. We'd all obviously like to see a clean, fair race, especially for those chasing KQs.

I was curious to see how IMTX would handle it this year and was happy that they came out in full force. I've never seen so many marshals in any triathlon, whether racing or spectating (we're talking dozens of races). I stood in the same spot for about 3 hours this time. The front of the race looked perfectly clean! I didn't even see a one-off drafter up front (not to say that didn't happen; just not where I could see).

I did see a few small "packs" -- all mid-packers, maybe 6-7 athletes total per group. Honestly, as is the case when I usually see slower "draft packs," they seemed to be formed by one person on the left not actually passing but incidentally blocking the people behind from passing. And then those people being frustrated as they wait to pass, but not maintaining the proper distance in the meantime... You know how it goes. I think a lot of it comes from ignorance and inexperience, although again to IMTX's credit, they seemed to really hammer home the drafting rules during the athlete briefings. Anyway, these are exactly the kinds of groups that become problematic/dangerous for the fast kids who are on loop 2. Luckily I saw motos talking to two of these groups so I imagine they had those fairly under control as well.

TLDR: I've raced IMTX twice on the old courses and last year had me questioning whether I'd feel safe/fair enough doing it with the Hardy now. This year gave the green light.

Last year had ideal wind and better conditions overall, plus a shorter bike course.

To give you an idea of the effect of the different conditions from 2018 to 2019 (plus the correct bike mileage), look at Reid Foster's results. He raced a perfectly clean race both years (not only did it "look" clean from the side of the Hardy, but he had the fastest AG bike split both times and stats say there was no one to draft off of). Last year's bike = 4:20, this year's bike = 4:35. Overall time ~20 minutes slower in 2019 vs. 2018. He's on the pointy end and really rough math says conditions were about 4% slower. Obviously N=1, but adding 4% to 2018 times should give a basic idea of where it'd compare in 2019. (*Clearly talking about clean races here.)

Anecdotally, the "pointy end" seemed less stacked from the sidelines than in previous years. I think a lot of the fast kids were watching to see if it'd be a safe and fair race before putting all their KQ eggs in the Texas basket again. So that could play into the finish placement disparities you are seeing as well.

what's your definition of huge? I saw the videos from last year's IM TX and I've never seen draft packs that large. I've typically seen them in the under 10 person range. Mostly 5ish people.

I was right at 6 hours on Saturday and only saw a few small 4-6 person packs. They weren't wheel to wheel either like the video from 2018. They were spaced out at least 3-4 meters and I think some of them just got caught going slightly faster speed to the person in front of them but couldn't pass because even faster riders were passing the whole group. Every penalty tent I saw had at least 2 people in them and I saw a marshal about every 10 miles. The techs also looked like marshals so I'm sure some of them deterred riders drafting since I saw a lot of them going up and down hardy toll road.

I rode a shade under 5 hours in the female pro field (after an utterly abysmal swim that erased any head start we got), and my husband rode 4:46-we both agreed with this. I had to do some sitting up and soft pedalling at times to drop back as pace lines passed me, but they were legal lines, not groups. I did see a couple of rogue wheelsuckers, but there were only a handful here and there who were pretty blatant. On the southbound trip out, I saw someone latched on get carded shortly after him and his unwitting ride went past me, and there was an official with the group ahead of me for quite some time, which was reassuring. There was a fairly sizable crowd at the first penalty tent, which was good to see, and helped break things up further.

Second lap was a little sketchy at times trying to navigate, especially at aide stations, although I actually felt like people were being better than usual at keeping right-most issues were just with anticipating when someone was going to move over to make a pass in front of me. I was also a little concerned with the pro vs amateur slipstreaming rules-having to move left before entering a draft zone meant that I was spending most of that lap towards the left of the lane, making it harder to get around me, so apologies if I caused anyone problems there. But, overall, after having heard stories of last year, I was expecting the worst, and found things pretty clean. Sure, I had times where I had to put in hard surges to pass a few people at once, and other times where I had to just be patient and slow down to drop back after being passed, but I felt like it was entirely possible to ride legally, and others were respecting that. Kudos to the race organizers for recognizing the problem, and taking steps to adequately address it.

I rode a shade under 5 hours in the female pro field (after an utterly abysmal swim that erased any head start we got), and my husband rode 4:46-//

SO who has to wash the dishes until the next husband and wife dual?? I had some lifeguard friends who were married that would only race in a local 2 mile swim every year, loser did the dishes for the entire year!!! I'll assume since you are pro and your husband an AG'er, that you might be pretty close?? And good to hear that people were able to race clean, if they wanted to of course...

Ha!!! It's always a rivalry, with a fair amount of trash talking, in this household. Sadly, he got me by 8min this time around, although at least that meant I still got to pass him back at mile 20 of the run. He's now trying to dodge my urging for a rematch in Tremblant. I think he has done more dishes than me since we got home, though...better not let him see this. Complicating factor here is that I did write his training plan. ;)

They also made it abundantly clear to stay off the shoulders in the briefings, turns out that was their plan for mitigating the drafting was to reserve those lanes for the officials. I got boxed in by a 10-15 rider peloton that went 3-wide so I sat up to drop back a little ways. Minutes later a moto came by and I saw them all in the tent at the turn at the bottom of the course.

What the marshals did in first part of race was awesome! I was hanging back from a group of maybe 12-15 guys. A marshal rolled up next to me and I pointed at the group (which at that point was a mix or legal and very not legal riding), he gave me a thumbs up.... speed ahead and started handing out cards!!! he stuck with the group till first penalty tent when 7-8 people in that group pulled in. Once he handed out the cards everyone spaced out legally as the official just kept going up and down the group. Mile 60-80 I did see smaller groups forming, but it was also a super congested race at that point. I had been super worried about the race being like last year since I mostly just hope for a good bike and to hang on for the run.

I agree with the officials being super visible out on the course just kept drafting down.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

There were definitely some folks working together, especially on lap 1. By lap two things had spaced out considerably and I saw 5-6 people in the penalty at the turnaround. The marshals were definitely out there, I personally saw them probably 8-10 times. While Texas is relatively flat, the overpasses did a fairly good job of breaking people up if they weren't intentionally drafting.

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Team Zoot 2023

Good point as its relative... so for my definition of huge? To me, over 30 is huge. Even at/near the front of WTC races I've done or volunteered at I've routinely seen packs as big or bigger.

But, in fairness, all the races I've been in or volunteered at were eithier relatively flat or the hills were in the latter portion of the bike.

I think hills early or throughout do a lot to break up packs.

I think the only WTC I've done with huge draft packs was HIM NC Beach 2 Battleship in in 2016 as it was flat and that year super windy so people just lined up and hunkered down from the wind. It became really frustrating on the bike and I burned out my legs having to pass packs of 20.

But I've done Rev3 WIlliamsburg, HIM Chattanooga, HIM Augusta, IM Chattanooga and I never saw huge packs. I saw smaller packs but those courses had just enough hills to get things broken up.

3 out of 14 from my FOMOP view. IMCDA 2010. IM South Africa 2017 and IM Norway 2018. None were flat, and the latter only had 525 finishers.

I think you might have been in front of me. You pointed to guys on front which were pretty close to each other. I was the dude with the green long tail wasp helmet, aerocalfs etc.

The marshals did great job, i was really happy to see their work. Especially on the first lap. Wasnt going to race here as was concerned about the packs, but got transferred from florida18 to this race.. no
choice..luckily the race was clean

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Yep! Nice bike position btw..... yea minus miles 60-80 into the headwind with that one group of guys that we could not seem to break away from it felt like very clean race, given the amount of fast racers..... I could not take those 5 guys anymore by the second turn around and pushed pretty hard right there to get away.

.... Do you think so many fast guys in the AG because of the FL deferrals? I was surprised to 18 guys in m40-44 that had previously raced Kona.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Thanks, have been honing the position quite a bit (IE. Custom pads to get enough reach for the p5 with the ventus bar)

FL..Good question. Might be. Definitely there are guys who would have tried to Kona 19 qualification from Florida 18 and now just had to change to Texas.. I was obviously one those.

Congrats for Kona place! This was my first KQ.. (with very close not to even race as has bad flu for couple weeks just prior race.. which then dropped my performance on the race day, luckily not too much..)

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You as well..... I let me spot roll down. Hopefully someone will appreciate it that was in 10 or 11th.

This is why I dont ride a p5 hard to get bars just right, seems like you got it dialed though. You have some good pics online with "Creative Cycle" as well.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Serious question: I competed In liuzhou 70.3 this year and I cannot see how u can possibly maintain 12m separation.

Nobody I saw drafted in a pack but there were long lines of people going roughly the same speed that were not 12m apart (but also not drafting or getting an advantage).

You either had to pass like 20 people in a Row without stopping or let 20 people pass you

What do u do in that case? In no instance was anybody on anyone’s wheel.

They weren’t penalizing anyone.

Everyone was just grinding along minding their own business passing slower people and getting passed but lots of time there wasn’t 12m separation.

For me your exactly right. Personally I was either at the front of a group or at the very back, till mile 80. When you get in the middle all that happens is someone passes you and you have to drop you power to fall back (to stay legal) and that seems to keep happening till you are at the back. The good thing about Texas was you have the lines in the roads so you can tell pretty well if your 12m and if you fell back around 25-30m + back you would feel that pull fully drop off. I totally lost touch with the front group as I was peeing a few times and had to put in efforts to catch back up. Its in very few races that I find I have a group of riders riding with me, most of the time its a pretty much solo effort start to finish. Not sure if I like or dislike the "group" dynamics but its def a very large factor in your placing at the end of the day, could be a positive or a negative depending if your using up to much energy to stay in the "group."

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Thanks for the answer. I mean I’m just trying to get a PR. I’m not winning shit. It would totally ruin my race if I had to purposely slow down to let 20 dudes pass me who weren’t even going faster than me

It would likewise ruin my race to have to be burning matches to pass 20 people. The roads were plenty of room to avoid being behind anyone.

Just frustrating.

I know we are a little off topic now from IMTX. But look at this a couple of ways: If your riding at a legal 12m (6 bike lengths distance) you gain a little over 20w so your either A. saving energy for the run or B. riding you normal power but since you have a small pull and your riding your power but your going faster. Also I you are simply passing people but you ride right up to there back wheel before you pass you gain about 1 sec for each person you pass (now be careful or you end up with a broken collarbone, yes I have been there not to long ago). Every race dynamics will be different so you have to take what each race gives you and make tactical decisions on race day. If there is one thing that is much more apparent to me now is: if you dont push the swim you might miss the opportunity to get on the train.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

I think having to pass large groups riding legally wouldn't be horrible if everyone was sensible and stayed legal. Pass maybe 4 and that 4th has to drop back. Take a break there, then pass 4 more. So on and so forth. The problem comes when no one drops back once you cross the front wheel. And then they take offense to it and immediately try to pass you again making your effort wasted.

I rode IMTX last year and that was my complaint. I was able to find room outside of the large packs. I got passed by a huge one, but found space to myself most of the time. My complaint was all the people who had no regard for passing etiquette. When you pass, they race you to stay in front. When you are making a pass, a small pack comes on the right hand shoulder passing everyone. That person you finally dropped who you constantly pass on the downhill of every overpass, but overtakes you on the climb......suddenly reappears on the tail of that huge draft pack only to drop off right in front of you. Those things bothered me more than the draft packs last year. Mostly because draft packs didnt affect my personal race much