I am, it's from Alex Gibney, he always does quality work.
I want to hear all her crazy denials. also - i'm hoping they interview some board members (but i'm sure i'll be disappointed).

why isn't she in jail yet? you'd think there would be enough evidence of fraud just from the Walgreens deal.

Finished the book about two months ago (bad blood). It’s amazing what they did and got away with for so long.

the podcast series "the dropout" was great as well

I'm already burnt out on Holmes mania.

Yeah, it’s kind of weird how much has come out lately. That being said, the book “Bad Blood” was very well done and a really good read.

---

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

She’s hot so no jail.

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I'm listening to BB now

It's amazing. These stories; BB, too big to fail, smartest guys in the room, when genius failed, den of thieves, the spider network

The behaviours exhibited by the individuals concerned is really fascinating

Agree - that was a well-done podcast!

---

Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball

I do think there's a flurry of stuff right now being prompted by the HBO release (for instance, the ABC 20/20 & Nightline segments).

Yep, the book was captivating. What blew me away is how so many smart people could be blinded by their want to have something to be true. You have A 20-something "Stanford"college drop-out, who managed to fool- Federal regulators for 10 years - investors ($900 million worth) - Sec. of States Henry Kissinger, George Shultz, Jim Mattis, media mogul Rupert Murdoch,-Safeway, Walgreens CEO's, famed Stanford chemistry professor ... that she, with her 'big blue eyes' was another Steve Jobs.

Quite amazing how the media just wanted this to happen so bad too. The slobbered all over Holmes and did interviews and special interest stories pushing the young blued girl who is going to "change the world". I kept thinking while reading this, no one ever questioned her numbers, for over 10 years, we're talking some very smart people, and in this age of technology, did not ask for the data that would support the extraordinary claim that over 200 blood tests could be done on a few drops of blood...

Ha, she wouldn't have lasted one minute in the Shark Tank-. Mr. Wonderful would have asked 'Let me see your numbers'. She had none, just a slick, articulate presentation, The Shark Tank would have laughed at Theranos 9 billion evaluation and said next.

There was a long list of employees that were bullied by Holmes, Bawani and David Boise (super lawyer) and his henchmen lawyers. Most all employees were too scared to come forward with how bogus the product was.

With the endless list of the gullible and weak people. There is also a small list of heroes who were endlessly bullied by Theranos but still came forward and helped John Carreyrou and Regulators to knock down the house of cards.

The book was a cross of "The Emperor has no clothes" "The Firm" and "David and the Goliath".

They seem to look the other way as long as you keep your mouth shut and lawyer up.

I had to google the name and still have no idea who she is or why a doc

She's nobody. But she's good looking so... Documentary!

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

why isn't she in jail yet? you'd think there would be enough evidence of fraud just from the Walgreens deal.


Reverse glass ceiling.

Watched about half of it last night then fell asleep (not because it wasn't good, but because it was late). Going to watch the rest tonight.

Amazing the array of big/rich names who got involved without apparently doing their due diligence.. like a 1%er version of the Fyre Festival debacle.

I had followed the debacle closely enough as it unfolded that I didn't learn all that much new from the documentary. There are certainly interesting parallels with Fyre regarding our capacity for self-delusion, although the scale of $$ and the potential for real harm were so much higher with Theranos.

One thing new for me was listening to one of Holmes's pitches about how horrible it is for patients to give blood, as a motivating factor for the finger-prick technology. Really? Sure, if you can bring costs way down, this sounds great. But, to sell this based on the suffering associated with a blood draw?

Well played, good sir! A very on-point summary.

---

Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball

Thanks, just listened to it these past couple days. Very intriguing.

For most people it's pretty easy, but my wife (a nurse) does have some horror stories of patients with just awful veins that are hard to find and easily collapse. Usually unhealthy or very obese people. Sometimes takes attempts at multiple sites, and just becomes a mess.

It was more than that, it was the speed the potential for scale and the anxiety. For example, if the Edison machine worked and could be scaled, there would be no need to wait an agonizing 3-5 days for an HIV test result. The idea has legitimate merits and is why Genalyte has been developing a similar product for the last decade+.

Brilliant!

 
https://www.insideedition.com/...fiance-and-dog-51876

and in a new twist - she's getting married.

I can only think that the guy must be like George Costanza

GEORGE: Jerry, I like being with her. Plus, I know where she is all the time. I have relatively no competition. And you know how you live in fear of the pop-in?
JERRY (shudders): The pop-in.
GEORGE: Yeah, no pop-in, no "in the neighborhood," no "I saw your light was on." And the best part is, if things go really well...
JERRY: Conjugal visit?
GEORGE (giddy): Don't jinx it!

The jury just came in. Four guilty counts, seven not guilty and one count dropped in November. Each guilty could carry up to 20 years max.

1. Conspiracy to commit wire fraud against Theranos investors: Guilty
2. Conspiracy to commit wire fraud against Theranos paying patients: Not guilty
3. Wire fraud against Theranos investors: wire transfer of $99,990 from Alan Jay Eisenman: No verdict
4. Wire fraud against Theranos investors: wire transfer of $5,349,900 from Black Diamond Ventures: No verdicct
5. Wire fraud against Theranos investors: wire transfer of $4,875,000 from Hall Phoenix Inwood Ltd.: No verdict
6. Wire fraud against Theranos investors:
wire transfer of $38,336,632 from PFM Healthcare Master Fund: Guilty
7. Wire fraud against Theranos investors: wire transfer of $99,999,984 from Lakeshore Capital Management LP: Guilty
8. Wire fraud against Theranos investors: wire transfer of $5,999,997 from Mosley Family Holdings LLC: Guilty
9. Prosecutors dropped this count in November, after making an error that put the count in peril.
10. Wire fraud against Theranos paying patients: wire transmission of patient E.T.’s blood-test results: Not guilty
11. Wire fraud against Theranos paying patients: wire transmission of patient M.E.’s blood-test results: Not guilty
12. Wire fraud against Theranos paying patients: wire transfer of $1,126,661 used to purchase advertisements for Theranos Wellness Centers: Not guilty

---

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

She is going to prison for a long time.

Maybe not as long as you think. Young child. No priors.

So basically guilty of fraud against investors but not patients. Trevor Milton must be shaking in his boots right now. They are coming for you next.

Maybe not, but it helps the civil cases in going after her.

I'll take 15 and 2/3 years

$140,000,000 fraud that she was the leader of. 10 years at least. Of course she will appeal, and likely have some success but I think the initial sentence will be 7 years give or take 2.

Is $140,000,000 the amount of loss? Because in a wire fraud case the amount of loss has a significant impact on the base guideline offense level.

Based on the results CLM posted I would WAG 10-15 depending substantially on the amount of loss/gain used for the guideline calculation.

I counted the aggravating factors and got up to 188 months give or take. She harmed more than 10 people was over 100MM etc.

Yeah. I didn’t look at any of the other specific aggravators because I don’t know all that much about the specifics of her case. But, yeah even with no priors her offense level is going to be really, really high.

Elizabeth Holmes?

---

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Total loss was around $600 Million. She was charged, and found guilt of, about $145 Million.

I initially thought 10-15 but think she may be helped by how close the case was. I think she is 100% guilty and should be in prison for a long time but she, and her attorneys, did a great job at minimizing her culpability.

I haven't followed it too closely - was she a typical silicon valley huckster buying time to try to figure out how to fulfill wild promises or did she know her gizmo would never work while she was bilking investors?

The latter.

She and her senior exec team knew full well that the machines did not work as advertised, yet still used them and conned investors (and patients)

Been following the case for a few months, watching Youtube videos about it, interviews with whistleblowers, body language experts. I found her fake deep voice bizarre. What a character.

But what was her end game? She knew the device didn't work. Was she just hoping lawyers would save her in the end? I imagine she was just trying to buy time with investors cash after reaching a point of no return.

I dont think she had an end game. I think after years of lying she was in so deep that she couldn't get out.

I can't figure out her end game either. It was a clear fraud that was never going to work.


One other thing on sentencing is the fact that she tried to ruin anyone who told the truth. Not a lot of that made it into the trial but the attempt to cover up the fraud could factor into her sentencing.


For the folks interested in this case John Carreyrou's book "Bad Blood" is excellent.

Reminds me of another famous liar once quite popular on this forum.

Hillary just whacked them

Nope, Hillary still quite popular to discuss. She just won't go away. I hear she might even be thinking of a 2024 run. The person I am thinking of was probably more popular on the tri forum to be accurate.

It's one thing to lie. It's another to build a fake lab where you pretend a blood test came from your own machine when it actually came from a machine you bought.

What do you mean by she will be helped by how close the case was? They minimized her culpability by “winning” on several of the counts, but she was still found guilty on a bunch of others. If the amount of loss is 145 million that is a 24 level enhancement to the base offense level of 7. So, if 145 million is used as the Loss for sentencing purposes she sits at a base 31 which calls for 108-135 months. However, as a Windy alluded to earlier there are a number of other factors that will likely raise that offense level further. I don’t think a variance is likely given the circumstances.

I think you are probably right. As far as the closeness her council did an excellent job of making the case very close, to the point that I expected a hung jury, or not guilty, on all counts. I hope the judge can see through that as she is obviously guilty.

I could see her rolling over on the COO in exchange for something like a year and supervised release for an extended period of time.

She will be sentenced on the total loss, not just the loss amount of the guilty counts. Her attorneys will fight the loss amount. The guidelines at the highest end go from $65M to $150M to $250M to $550M. My guess is she falls between $250M and $550M. Which is a 28 point enhancement. Her base offense level will be 7. I added another 15 or so of other 2B1.1 enhancers. That puts her at 50 points. The guidelines only go to 43, which is a mandatory life sentence. Even if her attorneys finesse it down some 42 points is 360-Life and 41 is 324-405. Judge has discretion over sentencing though.

---

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

I have some inside knowledge from friend who worked for Theranos. They actually did have some technology that possibly, maybe given enough time and money, could work for rapid testing of certain analytes from a capillary (fingerstick) sample. Nothing close to the 200+ analyte claims she was making, but possibly an infectious disease panel including HIV, Hep, Chlamydia, etc.

Theranos packaged up their technology, warts and all, and tried to unload it to a few big players like Samsung when the tires started to come off. None of the big players wanted to touch it, not because it did not have potential, but because of the baggage associated with it.

---

Trieatalot

It's a C minus world.

I think she honestly thought she they could make it work. She knew she was lying at the time, but believed they would pull off a miracle. Of course hoping for a miracle is not a great plan.

Their "technology" was basically diluting fingersticks and running the sample on a normal Siemens machine. Their Edison machine could run 12 tests but broke down all the time, was slow, and fragile. The only value Softbank has found is in patent trolling.

They actually had a demo run at Theranos where there were mockups of the Edison device up against a wall. A sample could be taken, inserted into the machine, it would drop into a compartment accessible from behind the wall, a tech would grab it, run down the hall and put it on the Siemens analyzer. They would then read the result, run back to the secret wall and enter in the result to an iPad linked to the display on the Edison. My friend said it was pretty slick.

---

Trieatalot

It's a C minus world.

Hulu will be releasing a new mini-series starring Amanda Seyfried playing Holmes:

The Dropout

Seyfried certainly has the doe-eyed look down pat.

---

Trieatalot

It's a C minus world.

Had she been found guilty of one count of fraud for only 10K because the other courts were not guilty, but the total loss was 600MM the guidelines would still go with the 600MM enhancement? That seems wholly unfair.

That’s how it works. Otherwise we have indictments with hundreds of counts which puts undue burden on the courts, prosecution, defense, and the jury.

Sentencing and loss calculations almost end up like a second trial. I had a case in which the defendant(s) were indicted on like 15-18 counts but we could have charged them with several hundred (relevant conduct). Indictment loss amount was less than $10M but total loss was closer to $100M. They got sentenced on like $75M.

We had to “prove” the relevant conduct. Not at a “beyond a reasonable doubt” trial level but to a level in which the court, sentencing, prosecution, and defense agree upon. That’s sometimes more difficult work than the trial side of things.

---

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

"Bad Blood" is an excellent reading. Excited to watch the documentary. First need to give a call on ion television phone number or contact them on this source cause we have some unexpected errors on our tv system. Hope they can fix it soon as it is no fun to spend winter days without tv.

BBC News - Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes jailed for fraud
https://www.bbc.co.uk/...d-us-canada-63685131

11 years.... cynic in me thinks her having kids ploy for sympathy didn't work

She will appeal.

And the article says she only starts serving her sentence in April of 2023 ... So she still has time to go to Hawaii or vacation a bit. Ah, such a tough life. I wonder what she did with all of the stolen money?

---

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

longer than i expected. Sunny probably isn't feeling optimistic right now.

---

And the question remains. where were you.

I think so too....

11 years, maybe out in what, half of that? And most likely not jailed during her appeal?

She'll be fine.

---

Long Chile was a silly place.

should have announced she was running for President when they were initially thinking of bringing charges.

https://www.cnn.com/...es-mexico/index.html - wonder if the prosecutor will be successful in getting the deferral of her sentence reversed.

The government knew a year ago.... they're just being petty now