Sure hope so. It is sad to see them go. Of course you can still see where you end up on Zwift Power. But year, the leader board/position is motivational for those of us that want to push it.

Lot's of "reasons" being mentioned on today's ride, probably all guesses. But I also liked being able to pick off riders and advance as the race went on. I vote to bring them back!

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I'm closer to the feathered end of the spear than the point.

It’s pretty bad if they are removing features from paying members because they can’t figure out how to make the technology work.

Honestly I thought it was more fun without the placings. Started near the back and rode hard until I found a group that I could ride with at a similar power and stayed with them. Kept my HR at 5-10 beats below threshold (always high indoors) and averaged 250W 3.3 w/kg. I could see maybe 30-40 riders ahead of me and was in a group of about 20. Enjoyed it.

What was weird was when I went to Zwift power afterwards and it showed me about halfway back in the finishers. Previous stages I had been always in the top 1/4 for slightly less power. Not sure if I encountered a very strong group or what. Not that it really matters. I found it to be more fun than chasing positions and kept me more in the game.

Happy to answer what questions I can, but I will say that the sentiment here is not surprising given the general mentality (as much as it's possible to generalize) of the typical Slowtwitcher. However, in this particular case, the mentality of the typical Slowtwitcher - y'all are fairly competitive - was not at all universal. Ultimately, we made the decision to disable race results because the feedback we received indicated that - in total - people were confused by the presence of race results in an event which, in its description, explicitly states, "THIS IS NOT A RACE" having results.

To be clear, there were also some bugs related to the results, but it was more the general sense of frustration/confusion that we perceived that led us to disable race results for TdZ. We don't have any further changes planned for TdZ 2019, but this experience has certainly laid out some work for us in terms of how we set similar event series up in the future...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

This is what I was afraid of. The wussification of everything. God forbid the folks at the back know that they are slow. You do what you need to the satisfy your investors. Looks like I’ll be spending more time on TrainerRoad.

I just sent my 80 year old mother in Florida a message letting her know that Zwift is for her! A perfect platform for her to keep in shape and exercise when it’s too hot outside.

Bye Felecia

TDZ is what a rider makes it. Is a group ride not aloud to have a bragging rights mad dash to a city limits sign or a max effort to the top of a climb? It may not be a race for everyone - so they can relax and not worry about a list of finishers. For me stage 4 saw me put down power levels that I have not seen for years so ya it was a "race" from the gun with or without results. Since I was surrounded by others I'm guessing not everyone was taking it easy. Either way I plan to do the next 5 stages flat out. By the way thanks for a great event. This has been great motivation for a lot of people.

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Ed Alyanak

Or, maybe it’s the deassholelification of an event which in its description, explicitly states, "THIS IS NOT A RACE".

Bye.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Or you could join one of the dozens of ACTUAL races they have in zwift everyday?

So....maybe make it an option. Those that don't want to use it or see it, turn it off in the menu settings. For the rest, leave it on - everyone is satisfied.
I personally liked it as it gave me a sort of goal to keep myself in X position in the entire group. Not caring about a top finishing position in as far as so much as to keep in the same position for the entire ride....or if I loose150 positions on a long climb...looking to gain all that back on the flats/rollers. Now just kind of riding blind. I can live without it, but definitely preferred having positional readouts.

If you want to race it, race it. Plenty of people do. Then go on to ZwiftPower and see how you placed. I don’t really see what the problem is.

So where are you getting your "confusion/perception" from? If you watch the facebook Zwift groups, most people are very unhappy with this decision. As you can see here on slowtwitch, there is a lot of disappointed people. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but as a paying member of Zwift, I'd love to see all these people who wanted it removed. It makes a lot more sense to leave it up and those people who don't want to race don't. By removing the leader board the only people hurt are those that want to challenge themselves. Leaving it hurts no one.

You win the internet for the day!!!!

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Uhhm, that’s ridiculous. I’ve never seen a leader’s or polka dot jersey waiting for me after a group ride.

If you wanna race then grow a pair and enter real life races.

An Internet group ride is not a race, meaning there’s no results. In a real life hammer ride group there’s only temporary personal satisfaction in arriving first to something. Not a lit up billboard of stats.

It’s a bit narcissistic to demand everything in life have a clear cut victory salute for you.

Just imho. It’s a bit much.

All of you complaining, do you have a heads up display in a real race that gives you your position? Get over it.

I do think Zwift benefits from very clear distinctions between what's a race and what's a group ride. Both in real life and virtually, it's annoying to have people trying to tear groups to shreds on group rides by attacking (as opposed to people just naturally binning into groups of similar steady-state W/kg). Those who have an urge for competitive outlet (which is very often me) should self-select events transparently described as races.

I appreciate groups clearly saying whether it is group/team work or if it is hammer-fest. "What's the protocol today?" Even on a hammer-fests it's not sanctioned, so it's just a way to try out things and have fun.

The whole leaderboard thing for Zwift almost sounds like a sit-on-sprinter in a hammerfest ride. Most people in a hammer ride are trying out a variety of race moves to see what happens. They're not trying to make it to the parking lot first.

We have a local hammer ride that people get pissy when the weight part of the w/kg and people's duration curve wears thin on hills and the group splits. It's a hill, we'll wait for you. Chill out. No reason for me to soft pedal a hill because I weight 40 lbs less.

Also, we call a truce some nights if weather is bad or the group is thin on strong guys/gals and just do a group ride. If someone does stupid stuff like riding up the center of the double paceline or doing a flyer off the front, that's just so stupid and rude.

Yes, I agree - real-life group rides are best when there's a de-facto sheriff, and clear rules about when it's kosher to go, and when it's not. Some Zwift rides have that - ride leaders who communicate very well. Some with no leadership devolve into shitshows.

So I guess Zwift is a lot like real life.

I’m not about to cancel my zwift membership over it, but I missed the leaderboard. I generally don’t treat tdz events as a race, but I think the great thing about about these big events is that you can make them whatever you want and still have a nice group to ride with.

If I’m due for a rest day, I can just spin the legs in a slow group. If I’m due for a hard day, it can be like a race. Its not like a controlled group ride where anyone should care if you’re pushing the pace.

I like the leaderboard regardless of how I’m treating the ride. It’s one more thing that keeps me engaged in a virtual ride, even if I’m not concerned about my position.

I get the sentiment that zwift doesn’t want recreational riders to get discouraged, but I just think it does more harm than good to pull the leaderboard from these events.

Understand that there were technical issues and also that it is "not a race," but I'll offer my $.02...

I've completed all 4 stages so far, and have enjoyed the challenge of trying to keep up in relatively fast bunches in each of the stages. What was frustrating about Stage 4 was that the leaderboard that was previously present in other stages was all of a sudden not available. Had I ridden Stage 1 and had no leaderboard I would likely have chalked it up to the fact, as you mentioned, that the Tour de Zwift is not a race. But with thousands of people in an event, there is inevitably going to be some level of competition, even if on a more friendly level. The leaderboard was used in the first 3 stages, which made its presence throughout the event a reasonable expectation.

The reason I appreciated the leaderboard previously was that it is difficult (maybe impossible) to know where I was relative to the front. I'm not sure if it is due to the limitations of my computer (MacBook Pro or Alienware 15), my internet connection, or Zwift itself, but I can generally only see maybe 50-100 riders in front or behind me, both in-game and also on the companion app. So without a leaderboard that is telling me where I actually am, my in-game view looks like I'm not too far behind the front end of the field. On the first 3 stages I knew exactly where the field extended to up the road because the leaderboard told me. But on Stage 4 it was impossible to know how much further up the road the lead of the bunch extended, or if I was even in the front bunch when I hit the base of the final climb.

I realize that the Tour de Zwift is NOT a race. But it does seem very much like a fondo in the sense that, as others have mentioned, it is whatever each individual wants it to be (quite frankly aren't most Ironmans like this??). I've done the Etape du Tour in France a handful of times and the Tour de Zwift reminds me a lot of that. In the Etape there ARE results, and some people are VERY competitive, but the majority aren't. But no one questions that there is timing and results, because even if the only challenge one is facing is within themselves, the results help add a fun dimension to that.

My vote would certainly be to add back the in-game leaderboard as it made it a much more fun and challenging workout for me.

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Geoffrey Nenninger

I guess here's the thing I'm seeing, in general it seems like there are a lot of B, C, and D class racers that are doing the majority of the complaining about this because they just want to do the ride as a race and feel good about themselves because they see they're virtually beating a thousand people versus actually signing up for a race, virtual or otherwise, and getting their teeth kicked in.

What does your stats have anything to do with this thread. Such a backdoor brag! Well, kudos to you!

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Jimmy S.

Huh?

Using wussification is not creative and a lazy way to complain. It's pretty clear that you're determined enough to be overly competitive, I'm sure the lack of a leaderboard won't hold you back

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Chasing PB Podcast Latest interview with Eli Hemming on Targeting a US MTR spot in Tokyo

The only reason I thought it was nice to see the placement of riders was: If I wanted to ride with a friend, it would be impossible to find that person in an event where there are 1000+riders who all look the same. Whereas if there was a placement number, I could message said friend "I'm #578 and dropping".

This is like the garbage taking itself out.

I have to say, I was enjoying the Tour de Zwift. I have done each stage twice now. After removing the placement feature, the tour rides have just become blah. I actually started watching netflix during the stages and had Zwift running in the background not really caring anymore. The first couple stages were so fun with placements, being able to pick people off or even just being aware of what draft pack I was in, then determining when to launch out and try to get on the pack in front of me.

Removing the placement feature pretty much killed the tour for me. I don't care if it is not a race, its still nice to know where you are in the group. Zwift could have very easily made a checkbox above the placement display that lets users hide the placement so their feelings would not get hurt.

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"If it costs you 30 minutes at Maryland so what" -dwreal

I don't want to speculate on the class of the riders, but I do get a sense that the people complaining are those that must be too scared to enter an actual race on zwift? There are almost endless options available.

I like the leaderboard for the “non-race” events. I am nowhere near the front, but it helps me set little goals during the race; “I’m 350th, let’s see if I can make 299th.” Sometimes the best races/workouts happen in the battle for 299th place.

I Don't disagree... For a long time I exclusively rode zwift doing workouts in Erg Mode. Even as someone who has raced on the road, I wasn't sure about zwift races hearing all the stories about them (Weight doping, crazy power outputs, being dropped off the start line, etc.). I only tried Zwift races as a requirement for the Zwift Academy, but I am glad that I did, because I really enjoy the challenge of the races, and if you focus on racing within your category, and not the overall, most people can get some of the feel of racing in an accessible way.

That said, I skipped the TDZ, because I figured I'd end up missing some of the stage offerings in terms of my other training, so I was better off just picking races that worked with my training... I might still hop into a stage if the timing and distance synched up with what I was looking for... The only unfortunate part is that I am finding the fields in any of the other races a bit watered down because so many people are focusing on the TDZ, maybe with the scrapping of placements, more people will do other races again(my placements overall have improved up a lot since the TDZ started, I am racing smarter, but I suspect this has more to do with who's not there, than anything that I've done...)...

Yes, same here. I usually do the rides with a couple of friends and it was a lot easier to find each other when we could message each other our positions. I'm a bit disgruntled they've been removed!

Judging by your comments here, I am assuming you don't use Zwift. In these recent events you are looking at upwards of 2000 people. They are not just simple group rides. So with 2000 people you can chose to hammer or sit back and find a group doing your pace. I have done both, depending on how the course fits my style of riding and whether I am going easy or hard that day. The benefit of the leaderboard telling you your position, is you know where you stand. Often I will say, "o.k. there are 2000 people, I want to finish in the top 1/4. That doesn't mean I'm racing to win, only that I want to finish in the top 1/4 of the group. There is nothing wrong with that.

The leader board has been constant for the past 2 years. So to drop it in the middle of an event was not a good idea. If they wanted to drop it after the TDZ then I'd feel better about it. I think it benefits a lot of riders and doesn't hurt anyone. When you want to take it easy, you can take it easy and with 2000 riders you can find a group that is riding your pace.

Wouldn't the fact that they are B, C and D Class racers make it apparant that they do race and "get their teeth kicked in"?

If they are B, C or D class racers, registered to Zwift Power, maybe, but simply being in a category for something like the TDZ, not necessarily, because when you sign up, they ask you to opt into a category, based on your FTP, so that doesn't make them a racer, that means they are participating in B class, C class or D class, not necessarily racing...

It seems like the solution to me is not to scrap the standings, it would be to give people the ability to hide that from their view, and effectively opt out of "racing" and just ride, but leaving the positioning available for those who want to race.

He said it was creating confusion, not that people were getting their feelings hurt.

I only did stage 4 and I saw comments from people asking where the placements were and it confused me because that had me questioning if it was a race or a ride so I can see where the confusion would come from.

I don't really care if they have the placement or not, but I do get tired of people turning every ride into a race. There are plenty of races.

The easiest way to actually do this is that - on Zwift Companion - we will show you distinct pins on the map of anyone you follow. And we have even more distinct icon for people you "star" (which shows their profile icon). It's actually way easier (in terms of finding people).

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Same here, I was setting myself up some in-race challenges to see if I could move up some spots. I was bummed that they took it out, but not enough for me to whine about it. Now I just look at the guys in front of me, and see if I can close gaps, and jump from group to group.

Hahaha. So true.

But in seriousness, some people just see other riders as a race, even if it is not. It is who they are. So they want that satisfaction.

The pins for my zwift friends haven't been showing up on the map during the TdZ, though, even when we have been right next to each other. So we haven't been able to use those.

I don't have Zwift companion (yet). A freind of mine whom i ride with on Zwift does, and he could not locate me in TDZ with the pins either . We rode together in stage 3 only b/c there were placement #'s associated with riders.

Yes, that works well when you're close to them, but you do have to be reasonably close first, since the map view does not populate every rider for long distances forward and back. I used to use ZwiftGPS for this purpose as it only showed followed riders and allowed you see the entire map at once. However I think ZwiftGPS had to pull the plug following GDPR. Not sure if it's been revived since.