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November Swim Challenge
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Post your workouts.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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5 mi run 45:20
575 yd swim

4 x 100 on 1:30
150 on 2:00
25 kick c/d

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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4300m (25M pool)

400 swim - 400 kick - 400 pull - 400 drills

20 x 100 Pull + Paddles very relax focus on technique pace 1'22-1'25 leaving 1'45

8 x 25 Fast fins on 1'00 pace 13-14sec

4 x 25 Fast fins breathing once pace 13 sec - 25 easy leaving on 1'30

300 easy
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Back up in the high desert for about 10 days, what a difference a real pool with lane lines make!! Of course I was sucking air at the altitude, but that never goes away;

15x100s@1;40(1;23/23/22/22/22/21/21/21/21/20/20/20/19/19/18)
5x100 flutter kick@2;05(1;52/50/47/46/43)
500p@6;30(6;05)
100 dolphin/100 buoy(2;04/1;24)
2700SCY
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Re: November Swim Challenge [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Back up in the high desert for about 10 days, what a difference a real pool with lane lines make!! Of course I was sucking air at the altitude, but that never goes away;

15x100s@1;40(1;23/23/22/22/22/21/21/21/21/20/20/20/19/19/18)
5x100 flutter kick@2;05(1;52/50/47/46/43)
500p@6;30(6;05)
100 dolphin/100 buoy(2;04/1;24)
2700SCY

Someday I'm going to do THAT set! But, not today....

Warmup:
200ez
2x50
2x100 drills

Ms;
20x100 usrpt @1:43 failed at #9, 14, 19

Cd;
200ez.

Its been a while.... And it showed.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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6.5 mi easy (1:00:32), 575 yd swim as 550 swim + 25 kick

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Couple of good swim days to end the week. Lots of focus on backstroke form, and Thursday was a couple k of drills / swims working on rotation. We ended with a rolling set of IM 75s as fly-fly-fly, fly-fly-bk, fly-bk-bk, etc until all the freestyle was done.

Sprint Fridays, and at the end we did some band work. Off the blocks and 25 with the resistance growing. Then 10s rest before sprinting back. Never done that before - you really have to windmill those arms on the way back!! We ended with 6x50 (push) on 90s. Swam a 28 free at the end, which is only about 1.5s slower than my meet time from 2 weeks ago. Feeling pretty good about that!!
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Last dark swim, at least until near the end of the year. I put strobes on the buoy so we could find it on our return trip. Water was calm and clear and 64°, but I shed the wetsuit and was a little cool but comfy. 2400 some yards.

Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [HalfSpeed] [ In reply to ]
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5.1 mi run (.75 @ 8:41, 1.35 @ 8:34, 2 @ 8:27), 1125 yd swim

10 x 100 on 1:30
125 c/d odd lengths kick, even lengths swim

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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A great adventure swim out of Tablerock Beach. Swam south in clear, 66° water along several reefs and amongst a lot of lobster traps. No wetsuit. Felt fine until about 20 minutes afterwards, when the dreaded Drop hit me. But, it’s not bad... a bit of an adrenaline rush! 3100 yards.

Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [HalfSpeed] [ In reply to ]
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I love reading about your swims! It always sounds so cool!

Me? Just another pool swim.

100 WU
5X400 @ 7:45 (7:19,15,10,07,12)
2x100 CD

Trying to go longer on Saturdays. Planning to add another 400 each week. Hoping to build up to 10x400 by January.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [MTL] [ In reply to ]
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MTL wrote:
4300m (25M pool)

400 swim - 400 kick - 400 pull - 400 drills

20 x 100 Pull + Paddles very relax focus on technique pace 1'22-1'25 leaving 1'45

8 x 25 Fast fins on 1'00 pace 13-14sec

4 x 25 Fast fins breathing once pace 13 sec - 25 easy leaving on 1'30

300 easy

Not that anyone around here would be slave to a log, but I just checked my mileage after today's work and I am at 998 km for the year. Ideally I would be at 1000 km by Oct 31 to hit the 100 km per month pace, but hey, I came out from under a bus, and lost a lot of of time in rehab and have been piling things on in the last 6 weeks.

Today's workout was like this:

  • 500m warmup free style
  • 750m easy as 100IM+50free five times
  • 500m fins kick on back 25m, dolphin kick on side 25 times 10
  • 2x200m IM easy plus 200m free
  • 2x(400IM legs only + 100 free easy)
  • 1x400IM + 100 free
  • 2x(200IM+50fly hard + 150 free easy)
  • 1x200 fly + 300 free
  • 200m fins kick on back 25m, dolphin kick on side 25 times 4

I will pile on another solid long day of IM focus and then on Monday I go in for a nerve root block injection into my lumbar spine to see if that can put things over the hump to walk smoothly again and maybe start some jogging again without leg spasms. I will have no swimming Monday to Wed, so after that, I'll be around 7 days behind pace to hit 1200 km for the year. It looks like I will have 52 days of swimming left in the year to swim the final 200km or so, which means I will need to swim 4km pretty well every time to the pool and average 28 km week to hit the target for the year. Damn, that's going to be really tough!!!! I'll need to keep up the pressure for the remainder of the year and not slack off. The good news, is that this will be a great push before a lot of the swim meets really get going in Jan to May, so timing for a big push is pretty good.

Dev
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
I love reading about your swims! It always sounds so cool!
Thanks! I do have fun. Totally enjoy the ocean, especially since my local pool has been closed for months and will be another couple months. But, I certainly don’t miss it. I find the pool to be so much drudgery anyways and that’s why I don’t drive to another pool. Yeah, it’s not exactly optimal training. I’m beyond trying to be the best I can for the next race. It’s all got to be fun, or I’m not doing it.

Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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dev, my fingers are crossed that the nerve block works for you.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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four for four of November days!
5k race (23:08, very pleased, 3rd FOV), another 8 miles after to get my long run in - some on the course, some on the treadmill watching NYC. Then 625 yd swim as 4 x [50 breast + 100 free] and a 25 kick c/d.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Dr. Tigerchik wrote:
dev, my fingers are crossed that the nerve block works for you.

Thanks! Let's see. If it works it will help my breast stroke as well as my land legs and I should get more force out of my bad leg in free and back. Tomorrow morning is 6K swim and then over to the hospital for the nerve root block...fingers crossed that everything goes OK but mainly that it can put me over a hump....if not, will look into the disc laser spine surgery in Tampa in the spring and fork out $20K....hopefully my key stocks in the market can pick up a bit after the recent trough!
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Re: November Swim Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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4 mi walk
1225 yd swim
11.2 mi bike

100 + 150 + 100 + 200 + 100 on a 1:30 base w/u
3 x [50 kick + 100 fast] 1:13, 1:12, 1:13
75 c/d kick, free, kick

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Last edited by: Dr. Tigerchik: Nov 5, 18 10:57
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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No morning swim yesterday as I supported the GF for her half-marathon race. She won overall women and 14 OA, 1:32:12. This course was reasonably flat but had a lot of turns, including 5 180 deg turns. That afternoon we decided to hit the beach as the weather was a perfect summer day. The water, calm and clear, but about 64 deg. I opted for no wetsuit and took my GoPro out to the reefs. Had nothing spectacular to shoot, though. With just goofing around we did about 1400 yards.
The Pod doesn't swim Monday mornings, so I did a slow 4 mile run, instead. I might pool swim or bike ride at lunch today... depends on if the fog lifts and what I feel like doing.

Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [HalfSpeed] [ In reply to ]
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wow that's awesome! Congrats to the GF.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Good swim tonight. Kinda liking this alternating morning / evening swim schedule.

Warmup:

325 straight
25 ez

Ms:
30x50 usrpt @46 no failures

Cd:
100ez

Got faster as the set wore on. I was working on reaching today. Finished the last 5 reps as 44,44,44,44,43.

Eta: swimming almost every day is causing my eyes to burn for several hours afterwards. This is the first time in the 2 years I've been swimming I've had this problem.

Any remedies?
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Nov 5, 18 19:50
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Hmmm....two swims 12 hours apart. This was a little lower on the intensity scale. :-) Still kinda smoked from last night.

WU: 3x100 L-paddle/R-fin, R-paddle/L-fin, swim

MS:

3x200 (:30) moderate (1:46 pace)
12x25 (:10) kick w/fins alt fast/easy
3x200 (:30) moderate (1:46 pace)

CD: none.
Ran out of time. That's ok though....the stroke was starting to come-apart at the seems in the last 200, anyway.

I've started to notice that my left kick downbeat (with right arm entry) is weak and less coordinated than my right-kick. I breath left...I wonder if that's related?
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Nov 6, 18 6:32
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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6.8 mi run with 2 x 1.66 mi @ 8:48, 8:41 pace. A little tired after giving blood Sunday PM
725yd swim as 650 swim, 75 kick c/d

6/6 for Nov swim days!

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Challenge [MTL] [ In reply to ]
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After a few days off and back from a long weekend in NY watching the NYC Marathon (cheering) back in the Pool.

Pool 25m - 5200m

Warm-up
800m - (100m - 200m drill - fingertips - 200 drill - stop & go - 200 drill - catch-up - 100m swim)

Main set
5 x 200m on 3'00 Pull + Paddles 1-3-5 fast - pace 2'35-36
rest 1 min
5 x 150m on 2'15 Pull + Paddles 1-3-5 fast - pace 1'55-157
rest 1 min
5 x 100m on 1'30 Pull + Paddles 1-3-5 fast - pace 1'16-17
rest 1 min
5 x 50m on 1'00 Pull + Paddles all fast - pace 34-35
200m easy

Second Set
5 x 100m kick fins on 1'45 pace 1'25-28
rest 1 min
4 x 100m swim fins on 1'30 pace 1'12
rest 1 min
3 x 100 kick fins on 1'45 pace 1'25-28
rest 1 min
2 x 100m swim on 1'25 pace 1'13
rest 1 min
1 x 100m kick fins all-out pace 1'16

Cool-down
200m easy
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Fridays (last week) main set at HAAVAAD... where wicked smahht people swim:

3 x 100 on 3min
4 x 50 on 2
4 x 25 (recovery was walking back to the starting blocks.. so about 2 min)

Managed 56-56-57 on the 100s (from a push)
Managed 25-26-26-26 on the 50s (also from a push)
the 25s.. no idea really and i was cramping from the morning ride ha...

All scy

There was about 2500 warm up stuff prior

daved

http://www.theundergroundcoach.com
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Dr. Tigerchik wrote:

6/6 for Nov swim days!

Nice! I'm 4/6 so far.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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7/7


5.5 mi run, 50:59, w/ 2 mi @ 9:05 pace. Stiff legs today
725 yd swim (7 x 100 on 1:30 + 25 kick c/d)

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Yesterday’s ocean swim was a bit crazy. We had these nasty speedbump-like waves catching us from behind. They were like boom-boom-boom, short period waves that were just weird to swim with. It took more time to get to Seal Rock than usual and I figured why... we fought a southbound current. Turning back meant facing these nasty waves, but at least we’d have the current with us. It was a stroke rhythm breaker! Water still holding around 65°. I’m comfy without a wetsuit.
Today was super calm conditions and the water clarity was amazing. We could easily see a good 25 feet down (or across... whatever). Hey, there’s a lot of fish down there! It’s still 65ish, so I did some extra credit to pull off 2800 some yards.

Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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6.8 mi run w/ w x 4.5 km (9:05, 8:57)
150 yd swim, all I had time for

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Missed yesterday. Went to see my mom while she was stay g over at my sister's house.

Wu:
200ez
2x50 (:30) fast
2x100 (:30) moderate

Ms:
25x100 usrpt @1:41: never really failed... Just took a short break after 22.

Cd: 200ez

3100scy

Kicked my butt. Longest swim in a while.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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90min outdoor ride in boston!! glorious for november.
--
then late to the pool, missed most of WU only got in 400 or so
---
Prep set of some 25s and 50s done as mix of Kick/Swim, Drill/Swim
--
MyMainSet:
600 as 200smooth, 200 build, 200 "strong" -- 6:49 (i find it hard to pick up my pace sometimes, im better starting out faster)
3 x 100 on 1:20 hold fast pace -- held 104s
6 x 25 on :30 drill/swim x 25
600 as 150smooth, 150build 300"strong" -- 6:40 (same issue)
4 x 75 on 1:05 dec 1-4 -- 54. 52, 50, 48
6 x 25 drill
600 as 100smooth, 100bld, 400 "strong" -- 6:41 (no juice to finish this off)
6 x 50 on :50 all fast -- 29, 30s for the rest of them
300 easy warm down
---
A good main set I think, but I would have preferred to try to descend the 600s with that being the only focus. But I didnt write the workout. Suffered mightily on those last 50s... wanting to be under 30 on each one and just couldnt. ugh

not my best day, but a great day for sticking it out, not mailing it in and fighting despite slow times with massive output.

daved

http://www.theundergroundcoach.com
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Re: November Swim Challenge [daved] [ In reply to ]
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6.5 mi run easy 1:01:10
675 yd swim kick every 5th length

9/9

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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75 mins on bike trainer.

500 wu
100 kick
6 x 100 on 1:20
100 kick
3 x 200 on 2:30
100 kick
300 wd

2300 scy
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Easy day..

200ez
2x50 fast
2x100 alt l-fin/r-paddle, r-fin/l-paddle

2 x {
3x200 moderate
12x25 kick with fins at fast / easy
}

100ez

6/9
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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600 S, 400k
12x100S on 1:30 1:16 to 1:18
8x100P on 1:30 1:13 to 1:15 (paddles and bouy)
200 IM timed on 3:00
4x50 IM on 50 stroke faster than IM times
100IM timed on 1:45
4x25 IM stroke on 30 faster than IM times
100 warm down

3700 scy
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Still a bit tired today...

WU: 2x100

MS: 5x400 (:30)

CD: 100ez

No time for nonsense today. Wanted to do 6x400. The shoulders and back had a different idea. Best 400 was 8 seconds faster than last week at 7:01.

7/10, 15 Kscy
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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7.6 mi run w/ 2.5 km + 7km @ 9:13 pace
1275 yd swim

12 x 100 on 1:40
75 kick c/d

10/10, 7675 yds

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Our pod had the best swim of the year this morning. Not all went the full distance, but the goal was to swim out from Woods Cove to The Montage Resort, get out and walk over the spit, get back in and swim around Goff Island back to Woods. 4710 yards in 1:08. I paced as if I was going longer - a good effort, but comfortable. (About a 1:01IM Swim time.) What I’d expect to put out at the 11 mile Portland Bridge Swim (planning on going back 2019).
The water is the clearest I’ve seen and temperature about 67°. The reef views were spectacular. I’ve never been able to see the reef outside of Goff Island. It’s like rolling waves of rock with deep, sandy canyons between, and thousands of fish.
Tomorrow, I’m going to use my shorty wetsuit and fins to relax and spend quality time with my GoPro and the reefs.

Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
Still a bit tired today...

WU: 2x100

MS: 5x400 (:30)

CD: 100ez

No time for nonsense today. Wanted to do 6x400. The shoulders and back had a different idea. Best 400 was 8 seconds faster than last week at 7:01.

7/10, 15 Kscy

Solid man!!!
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Re: November Swim Challenge [HalfSpeed] [ In reply to ]
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HalfSpeed wrote:
Our pod had the best swim of the year this morning. Not all went the full distance, but the goal was to swim out from Woods Cove to The Montage Resort, get out and walk over the spit, get back in and swim around Goff Island back to Woods. 4710 yards in 1:08. I paced as if I was going longer - a good effort, but comfortable. (About a 1:01IM Swim time.) What I’d expect to put out at the 11 mile Portland Bridge Swim (planning on going back 2019).
The water is the clearest I’ve seen and temperature about 67°. The reef views were spectacular. I’ve never been able to see the reef outside of Goff Island. It’s like rolling waves of rock with deep, sandy canyons between, and thousands of fish.
Tomorrow, I’m going to use my shorty wetsuit and fins to relax and spend quality time with my GoPro and the reefs.

Every bit of that sounds friggin' cool as hell!

Please post the gopro video somewhere, so we can be jealous!!
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Re: November Swim Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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dev, how are you feeling post nerve-block shot?

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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27.9 mi bike, 1025 yd swim

10 x 100 on 1:30 held 1:20s
25 kick c/d

11/11

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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4500 total this am SCY of course here in new england
--
Main set was 3 parts but included 100s as the focus

Part 1: 3x{ 4 x 75 some drill some swim on 1:10 for drills and 1 for swims

Part 2: 12 x 100
as: 3 on 1:25
1 on 1:30
2 on 1:20
2 on 1:25
1 on 1:30
3 on 1:20
Part 3: two times through:
1 x 75 drill
1 x 100 on 1:30
1 x 75 drill
2 x 100 on 1:25
1 x 75 drill
3 x 100 on 1:20

Did all of the 100s breathing every 5th stroke and all were at or below 1:10 (1:07 fastest but ave ~1:09s)
** breath discussion with guy in lane next to me went something like this:
I say: "Hey did that breathing every 5th. Essentially 2 strokes off the wall, breath, 5 strokes, breath, 5 strokes, breath, 2 strokes turn. You should try it! really gives you time to exhale completely"
He says: " no way I could do that. I like to breath in too much"
I say: " You can only breath in what you exhale and this pattern gives you time for a very full exhale"
He says: "whaaa?"
I say: " well, if you like breathing in so much why dont you breath out more (volume) so your inhale is how you like it? If you dont clear the air out how do you get the inhales you love?"
Him: "hmmm ...that makes sense..."

#1 athletic activity in swimming for improvement: breathing

daved

http://www.theundergroundcoach.com
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Re: November Swim Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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50s day... Also upgrade day, since last week I did 30x50 at target pace. New target is 43s per 50.

WU: 325 straight.

MS: 24x50 usrpt at 43s (20s): failed at #10, #18.

CD: 100EZ

I knew I didn't have much left after #23, so I gave it everything I had left on #24. Finished at 41 flat. My lats and pecs on my right side are toast. I suppose I might have eeked out 1-2 more if I stayed with the pace. But, I felt like finishing strong.

Swimming frequently really reinforces so many movement patterns, doesn't it? You get so many more opportunities to notice little things: rhythms, movements, feeling of stretch, etc. I've really started to notice the coordination between my feet/legs and arms.

8/12, 17 kscy
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Nov 13, 18 9:24
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Easy day..

100ez
2x100 alt l-fin/r-paddle, r-fin/l-paddle

2 x {
3x200 moderate
12x25 kick with fins alt fast / easy
}
100ez

Still pretty smoked from last night. I forgot my watch, and we don't have a pace-clock at my pool. Just a digital wall. I'm not very good at wall-clock math while swimming, but I think I did all the 200s at about 3:30. Once I got going I felt better than I thought I was going too on my way home last night. :-) I also managed to take a second or two off my fast-25 kick sets.

9/13, 19k
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Nov 13, 18 9:23
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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yesterday 8.73 mi run, no swim
today 3.6 mi run, 525 yd swim (500 straight + 25 kick)

12/13

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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I'm still out of the pool, but I did start easing into dryland training so I can try and maintain at least a little bit of core and upper body fitness.

Using a circuit timer app on my phone.

warmup 15 mins on the T-mill @ varying speeds.
all exercises in circuit done as 40s on, 20s off.

1 - jumping jacks
2 - bodyweight squats
3 - pushups with alternating leg raise
4 - superman
5 - Spider-Man (I think that's what its called)
6 - burpees

rest 1 minute after each round

today I did 2 rounds. I'll work on increasing the number of rounds over the coming weeks.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: November Swim Challenge [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Why are you out of the pool? Did I miss something....dunno why...but, your comment has an air of "medically imposed" to it.
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Nov 13, 18 10:06
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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I’m on a roll with longer ocean swims. Almost 4000 this morning. The water is still holding 64-65ish.
Here’s a short clip from the other day, while it was super clear. This a place called Rockpile, in Laguna Beach. When the surf gets big, the bad boys come out here to surf. As you can see, you don’t want to fall off your board.
https://vimeo.com/300867633

Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Toddlers and pool schedule are conflicting way too much, plus I’m finding that I’m really run down in the evenings. I should be able to pick it up again in the new year, but I might be swimming with a different group in the new year.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: November Swim Challenge [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Monday was distance day

1500 for time in 20:24
400IM kick
400/300/200/100 pull on 1:30/100 base, keep under 1:15/100 pace

10x50 IM on 50
8x25 IM on 30

100 warm down
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Re: November Swim Challenge [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Ah. Ok. Well life has its way with us sometimes. Glad it's not injury induced.

Another usrpt 50s day. Goal was more than 12x 43s 50s before my first fail.

Wu: 325 straight, 25 easy back to start

Ms: 30x50 usrpt @ 42s failed at #20, #27... Did #30 at 40s flat.

Cd: 100ez.

Target pace for the 50s was 43s. I barely managed 10x at that pace on Tuesday. Today, my rhythm seemed to settle on 41/42s per 50. Around #12 I was ready for a fail... But, I kept tagging the wall on pace at 42s.

Monty told me in June I could call myself a swimmer when I can do 20x50 @40s. I'm getting closer.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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whats your set up Tom?
SCY? SCM? or LCM?
And how much rest are you taking when you aim to do your 50s on 40sec?

unsolicited advice:
when you start each 50.
Take 2 or 3 strokes without the breath movement (and breath obv) in there and set your rhythm then. Use that time for a more complete first EXHALE and see if that doesnt shave a solid second off each 50.
... just a free suggestion.
Good luck on your quest!

dave

http://www.theundergroundcoach.com
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Re: November Swim Challenge [daved] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks David. Pool is scy. It's a usrpt set so it's 20s rest.

Funny you mention taking a few stokes without a breath. I was having the same thought last night mid session. I was thinking coming into the wall. But, my counter thought was that my purpose is to build speed for OD races. So, gaming the 50s to reach a number didn't seem consistent with that goal.

Then again I may feel differently when I'm at 40.5. :)
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Ha.. thanks for the response and good luck on your quest. Focused efforts are great.
As for "gaming the system" (so to speak), I would encourage you to look at it from a performance perspective and dealing w velocity.
The two moments for our highest velocity potential is when we dive in and when we push off the walls. So in this context you're really learning how to manage and sustain already created velocity. It can (and will) translate into the ability to then swim faster. But putting out more effort in yards 40 through 50 to "speed up" is not the reality.
So use that speed on your push offs to set a faster rhythm and more importantly to take the time to more completely exhale so your first inhale is also more complete and your blood chemistry stays more balanced for longer (and when you're moving faster!)
There are always interesting "cultural" questions brought up in these forum chats (the swimmer watch wearing one for example)... but in this cultural discussion about using the environment, IE walls, turns I think is actually more beneficial and more critical for those doing open water! From the perspective of being aware of and using your environment. Its great training to practice that! If in open water, for example, the surf is up and the marker buoys are hard to see, but that house/tree/mountain off in the distance is an environmental advantage to site off... would you use that? or stick to only using the buoys?
I hope that makes sense.
This isn't meant at all to be negative on what you're doing. I just want to help. Happy to discuss further as well.
good luck!

daved

http://www.theundergroundcoach.com
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Re: November Swim Challenge [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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6.6 mi run 1:00:05, 450 yd swim (Straight, kick final 25)

14/15

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Last edited by: Dr. Tigerchik: Nov 15, 18 10:00
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Re: November Swim Challenge [daved] [ In reply to ]
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daved wrote:
Ha.. thanks for the response and good luck on your quest. Focused efforts are great.
As for "gaming the system" (so to speak), I would encourage you to look at it from a performance perspective and dealing w velocity.
The two moments for our highest velocity potential is when we dive in and when we push off the walls. So in this context you're really learning how to manage and sustain already created velocity. It can (and will) translate into the ability to then swim faster. But putting out more effort in yards 40 through 50 to "speed up" is not the reality.
So use that speed on your push offs to set a faster rhythm and more importantly to take the time to more completely exhale so your first inhale is also more complete and your blood chemistry stays more balanced for longer (and when you're moving faster!)
There are always interesting "cultural" questions brought up in these forum chats (the swimmer watch wearing one for example)... but in this cultural discussion about using the environment, IE walls, turns I think is actually more beneficial and more critical for those doing open water! From the perspective of being aware of and using your environment. Its great training to practice that! If in open water, for example, the surf is up and the marker buoys are hard to see, but that house/tree/mountain off in the distance is an environmental advantage to site off... would you use that? or stick to only using the buoys?
I hope that makes sense.
This isn't meant at all to be negative on what you're doing. I just want to help. Happy to discuss further as well.
good luck!

daved

No worries, I didn't take it negatively at all! I appreciate any input I can get from you crazy fast guys! I kinda wondered if you meant something more like that after I sent my response. I expected to get corrected.

I do get what you mean. I hadn't thought about it from the "stroke" point of view....but, as I've been swimming more (almost every day) I find that I pay more attention to the streamline coming off the walls. My shoulders are pretty tight (compromised is the description on my bike-fit report :-). So, I'm sure its not all that great of a streamline, but its the mental focus on feeling the water resistance, and adjusting position to minimize it.

I suppose its a similar concept to swimming full-stroke with fins? You get that 10% boost in pace from the fins, which magnifies all those little bits of drag from extra movement and subtle position changes.

Its also funny that you mention rhythm. I was a drummer for 20 years...so, I easily get stuck in a rhythm. Once I get a cadence set, I find it really hard to slow the cadence down, even intentionally. Last night was a perfect example of that. I got stuck in the rhythm of those 42s. Somewhere around #15, I was begging to come in off-pace so I could get a break. I may have even been a little lazy with my last stroke :-). But, every touch was still on-pace, which was really "disappointing".

Thank you, very much. Seriously.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Drill day...

WU:
200ez

MS (all 30s rest) :
3x50 (30s) fast

2x100 paddles
100 free (1:37)

2x100 fins
100 free (1:32)

2x100 l/r + r/l paddle/fin
100 free (1:34)

3x50 (30s) fast

CD:
2x100ez
------
1600scy

Pretty happy with the full-stroke free pace. Wasn't trying to go fast, concentrating on maintaining the feelings from the previous drill.

11/15, 22 Kscy
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Nov 15, 18 19:37
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Re: November Swim Challenge [daved] [ In reply to ]
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I tried it tonight. Needs work. Mostly I need to learn to manage the "not breathing"...i need to slow the exhale so I'm still exhaling after the breakout. I'm used to timing that with the first stroke.

But, I did manage to pull off a 39s 50y the one time I kinda managed to get it sorta right.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for trying it!! And then providing feedback. That’s cool.
My response would be this:
While I think you’re just using the words “not breathing” to describe the time period of pushing off and taking two or three strokes before your inhale... I just want to be clear that I was not saying you’re not breathing. In fact I’m encouraging you to breath and one piece of the activity of breathing is the exhale and almost 100% of aquatic breathing issues are exhale based. So... use that time, as you then went on to say... to exhale more slowly. Time that out. Practice that timing on land. You’re a drummer... count out that beat as you push off and practice that exhale on land. It will make it easier in the water.
Again. All of us will make sure we try to get the air in. But if we haven’t emptied .. that breath in is like the last few drops at the gas station when you try to top off your tank!!
Awesome fun. Thanks Tom!
Daved

http://www.theundergroundcoach.com
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Re: November Swim Challenge [daved] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I just want to be clear that I was not saying you’re not breathing. In fact I’m encouraging you to breath and one piece of the activity of breathing is the exhale and almost 100% of aquatic breathing issues are exhale based

Yep, understood. My issue is that I completed the exhale (ie, no more air to push out), just as I take my first stroke. So, taking a full stroke cycle with empty lungs creates that sense of desperation to GET SOME AIR IN THERE!!! I need to slow the exhale down so that I can still be exhaling during that first cycle.

Today I left the stroke cycle out of the equation and just focused on extending the streamline and slowing the exhale down. Typically, I exhale normally coming off the wall, and take a relatively short streamline. I normally breakout with the flags still in front, and finish my first cycle as I pass the flags. So, today I just exhaled more slowly, and held the streamline an extra "second or so" and took my first stroke as I crossed under the flags.

USRPT 100s day.

WU: 200ez
2x50 (:30) fast
2x100 singlearm 25L/25R/swim

MS: 23x100 usrpt @ 1:38 pace, failed at: #14, #20, #23

CD: 200ez
-------------
2800 scy

Started out the 100s around 1:36-37 pace. Kinda wondered around a bit finding the right pace early on. Eventually I settled in at 1:38 around #6, and held that pace for the remainder of the set. Last week, I did this same set at 1:41/2 pace, but I did all 30 with no failures. On 11/1 I did this set at 1:43 pace and failed at #10, pretty similar to this week just 5s slower. So, looks like I'm averaging about 2s/100y pace-improvement per week.

I think this is the first time I've ever swum 5x in a row. Planning on swimming 400s tomorrow. And, I may try and swim Sun-Wed to make up for T-giving vacation. If I manage that, it would make 10 days in a row.

12/16, 25kscy
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Weekly recap:

Monday was a 200 based day, around 3400 scy with a main set of:
4x200 with a rolling 50 fasy
8x 25 kick
3x 150 rolling 50 fast
6x25 kick
4x100 rolling 25 fast
4x25 kick

Lots of build, or speed up / slow down within each interval this day, and that repeated acceleration really fatigued the shoulders

Tuesday was again a little more than 3000, working on rhythm for butterfly. Per the advice of Monty and others on here I've really worked over the last couple weeks to reduce the 'glide' phase. For the first time I occasionally get in a flow where it's relatively effortless, but that only lasts for 4-5 strokes right now. Still, coming along

Wednesday I was off, Thursday was more fly work, with a little breaststroke thrown in the warmup sets. Main set was 3 times through:
8x25 (1/2 lap fast, then finish easy)
2x25 one-armed fly (R/L)
50 fly drill
50 fly fast
50 kick
50 breast fast

And that will be my last time in the pool for about a month, since I broke my collarbone on the bike ride home yesterday (accident was 100% my fault). Such a bummer, was starting to see some small technique improvements add up in the non-freestyle events. I feel very lucky considering the crash could have been much worse - thank goodness I live in Minneapolis where drivers usually treat cyclists like human beings and give lots of space.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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If the ultimate goal is to get better on open water, I bet that innate rhythm would really help! I find it difficult to keep a consistent stroke / pace outside. I wonder, do your metronome-like sets indoors translate to solid OW pacing?
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Re: November Swim Challenge [sea green] [ In reply to ]
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sea green wrote:
If the ultimate goal is to get better on open water, I bet that innate rhythm would really help! I find it difficult to keep a consistent stroke / pace outside. I wonder, do your metronome-like sets indoors translate to solid OW pacing?

No. But, I think that's because of poor race specific prep. There are two sides of the innate rhythm. My stroke rhythm is stuck in my head, and I *will* swim at that rhythm. If that is the *right* rhythm, then cool. But, if its too fast...not so much. Swimming fast 50s and fast 100s develops that fast rhythm. But, if you can't hold that fast rhythm for 1500m...starting out that fast is not a good thing.

That was my issue in the only OD race I did this year. I didn't do any RACE-PACE work going into that race, it was all fast 100s---training that's good for a fast 400-800...but, not quite OD race specific. So, my cadence was too fast...and it took about 800m to get that sorted into something sustainable for the back-half. I realized that after the race, and started doing lots of 400s in preparation for my A-race. But, unfortunately that got cancelled 4 days out. So, I don't know how much those 400s might have improved my pacing.

I've also learned that swim improvement for me is incompatible with significant run/bike volume. So, I really stagnated on the swim once the run/bike really reached their peak (mostly the run @35+ mpw).
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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5 mi run + 725 yd swim

7 x 100 on 1:30
25 kick

15/16

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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1200 free in 16:16
400IM kick
5x200IMon 3:15
300/200/100 pull on 1:30 base
8x50 on 50 hold 37’s
100 warmdown
3700 total
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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400s day.

Wu: 100ez

Ms
5x400 (:30) 7:07/6:58/54/56/55
3x100 (:30) 1:39/35/33

Cd:100ez

2500scy


Arms are pretty spent. 6 days in a row and 9 out of the last 10. Most swimming I've ever done.

Added an extra 400 this week, averaged 6:58 for the set. Last week I averaged 7:09 for 4x with a best time of 7:01. Also added 3x100 at the end. Honestly I thought I did 5x400 last week so I added the 3x100 to stretch it out a bit, but didn't have enough gas for another full 400.

So, still gaining about 2s/100 per week.

13/17, 27 Kscy.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Had a nice long 4100 yard ocean swim in 58 minutes. Water is 64°. The amazing clarity we had last week is gone. At some places, the silt was so thick, I couldn’t see the shallow reefs until I nearly ran head-on into them. I pushed it a little harder and expected to be a little faster. It must have been the little reroutes around those reefs.

Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [HalfSpeed] [ In reply to ]
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yesterday 14 mi bike
today 4.1 mi run, 775 yd swim, then got to babysit a 4 month old for an hour!

swim was straight, kick the last 25

16/18; 11,400 yds and have surpassed last month's measly volume !

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Last edited by: Dr. Tigerchik: Nov 18, 18 11:06
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Whew! Made it to the pool. Sunday it's only. Open from 1 to 5.

WU:
200ez

MS (all 30s rest) :
3x50 (30s) fast

2x100 paddles
100 free (1:37)

2x100 fins
100 free (1:32)

2x100 l/r + r/l paddle/fin
100 free (1:34)

1250scy

14/18, 28kscy
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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3700 yards today, in the ocean, of course. Water is much clearer at Shaw’s Cove, rather than Woods Cove. Still holding at 64°.

Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry not been on the fish thread much lately, but I have been swimming other than this week which was only 17km. Right now I have to swim 3800m every day rest of the year other than Dec 25 and Dec 26 when the pool is closed to meet my year target of 1200km. I can't afford to get sick or miss a day in the pool.

Yesterday I did my first swim meet since being run over by the bus in June.

100m fly was 3 seconds slower than last spring
200m fly was 7 seconds slower
200m IM was 2 seconds faster
100m IM was 2 seconds faster

The crazy thing is that I swam all four events in the span of 45 minutes and the 200IM was 2 heats after the 200 fly, so I think I have upside on the IM. I really need to focus on my physio to get more strength back in my bashed and squashed right arm. I really noticed the lack of strength when I was trying to go full throttle in the fly. I hope to take close to 8 seconds off the above 100's and 15 seconds off the 200's by May of next year. I THINK that more than half of this is arm strength/rehab. The rest is learning how to swim like you guys and girls do.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom,
Where are you connecting to the rhythm?
daved

http://www.theundergroundcoach.com
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Re: November Swim Challenge [daved] [ In reply to ]
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Lots of different parts have a rhythm, as well as the rhythm of the sequence of events. Which part I'm most connected to depends on what I'm focusing on.

But, if I had to pick one thing, I think it would be the kick. Well... Specifically The kick that is timed with the opposite hand entry, hip rotation, and strong part of the pull on the same side.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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If you had to pick "one thing" it would be...? (and I quote) (haha)

Specifically The kick that is timed with the opposite hand entry, hip rotation, and strong part of the pull on the same side.

That to me sounds like 4 places.
What I mean to say is be more specific with where you tap into the created rhythm.
Ideally I would recommend (as you might guess) the breath rhythm. 3ct exhale then inhale or similar...
Then next in line would be hip rotation rhythm
Followed by shoulder rotation
and finally something external like hands hitting the water or exiting the water and kick feedback.

Im making two points here quite poorly.
Let me try to clarify.
Be specific with your connection to feedback based on rhythm. Then look for that rhythm to be rounded and continuous (hence starting with axial skeleton)
and
Do this ONE feedback loop at a time. There may be a single location that is easier to become aware of... but i think you're trying to sequence the whole thing and it simply is too much.
(just trying to make it easier for you)

Hope that makes sense.

daved

http://www.theundergroundcoach.com
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Re: November Swim Challenge [daved] [ In reply to ]
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Hmm....I'm going to try to respond to you in reverse:

Quote:

... but i think you're trying to sequence the whole thing and it simply is too much.
(just trying to make it easier for you)

I'm not sure I understand your rationale for it "being too much"? I'm swimming faster than I ever have, and am improving at a pretty good clip (2-3s per 100y per week) for 1500-2000 yard sets ranging in repeat distance of 50-400 yards on short rest. All while at the same time, my SPL id decreasing. I'm able to reach farther, and finish more completely without fishtailing or getting fatigued. I really have ZERO complaints about how things are going right now. I'm not where I want to be, yet....but, I DO feel like I'm moving on the right road.

I'm also not sure I understand what you mean by "trying to sequence the whole thing". Other than the inherent sequence of the act itself, the only real sequencing that I consciously pay attention to is the timing of my kick with opposite hand entry. But, THAT is at the specific direction of my coach based on watching me on-deck....and giving me specific drills to drive that particular timing home. When I get that right, in particular my breathing (left) side, my pace is noticeably improved.

All that said...it is past time to schedule another lesson with Mr. Patten. My last one was about 3 weeks before my last races. I took some time off, but now I'm ahead of where I was at our last session. And, I may be reaching a point (now or very soon) where technique again needs refinement for the next level of speed.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Tom...
I feel we have reached the end of my "helpfulness" to you on this topic and I apologize if you feel I stepped on any coaches toes.
Never meant to.
I do appreciate the conversation and feedback and have looked forward to this discussion.

My rationale for it being "too much" is that i asked you *where you are connecting to your rhythm. You named 4 locations with the crux being HAND timing w FOOT timing. All I was/am suggesting is to try to simplify the location, to only ONE when you connect for rhythm. And more effectively NOT doing that at the ends of your skeleton (hands and feet) and start more with getting better (more consistent, rounded rhythm) from your hips, shoulders (boat), and breath individually, before going to your arms, legs, hands and feet or any combo therein.
I hope that makes better sense and answers both questions you asked.

Congrats on the improvement! I hope it continues and never thought you were complaining about progress but rather I found refreshment in your willingness to listen and try something from a stranger online. These forums are always tough and the conversations limited and obviously very impersonal. A coach, seeing you perform regularly is going to have a much better perspective and so there were def some **assumptions on my part. Ill own that 100%
That said (ha!)
Final assumption filled feedback and then I will happily try my best to just answer questions if you have any.
(I'm saying the following bc you have commented on tired arms, swimming more than you ever have, and also SPL. Additionally, as I have found over the years very few (men specifically) who do triathlon have a naturally beneficial relationship with the water due to more lean muscle mass and that mass being located below your center of buoyancy... so, generally, we are "sinkers")
So, with those generic assumptions said, be cautious about lowering your SPL. I believe, DPS (as swimmers call it) is one of the most, if not THE most damaging paradigms in our sport. It influences the coaches, the athletes, the drills, the equipment, the conversations etc etc etc.
Taking fewer strokes per length does not equal efficiency or increased effectiveness. More often than not it leads to unmanageable stress on the shoulder joint and eventually injury. Additionally, these fewer strokes are manipulated by hyperextension through your skeleton and over reaching and over kicking as well as extended underwater kicking off walls. All of these can produce more velocity but at a massive cost of energy output and thus are very short lived. Bc we are sinkers (assumption**) lengthening and becoming non-functional with our arms and shoulders creates more time between our "impulses" or connections to the water or the throw where we create/sustain velocity. When given more time in the water, bc we are sinkers, well, then we sink. Ill use me as an example: I can do 100s and go 1:10 pace per 100 taking 11 or 12 strokes in a 25 yard pool and take 3 breaths per length. My HR (as it was this am, was 145). I can also swim that same pace, same interval (as I was also doing this am) taking 16 strokes, breathing 5 times per length and my HR was 120. Im a typical sinker with a moderate kick behind me (moderate for a div 1 swimming program in college but miles ahead of other triathletes I swim with).
I spent years trying to lower my DPS only to find sweet salvation :) in the ease of sustained speed by limiting my "down time" between impulses bc of my natural tendency to sink. Having a better understanding of your relationship with the water can help to clear a path to reaching your elite potential. Just be careful with buying into fewer strokes per length meaning you're a more efficient swimmer.
Thanks again for reading and responding!
Good luck!
as always, happy to discuss.

daved

http://www.theundergroundcoach.com
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Had a nice 3000 yard ocean swim with the GF. She has the week off. I’m back on track now to reach my goal of 500 miles of swimming this year. I’ll probably get a little behind Wednesday, as we’re going up to Sacramento for Thanksgiving. I’m not sure how much swimming we’ll get in. But, I guess when I get back, just have to bump some swims into the 5k distance.

Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [HalfSpeed] [ In reply to ]
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I'm still enjoying my time out of the water, I'll be really motivated to get back in the new year. Dryland stuff is progressing well, did 20 minutes on the T-mill starting at a leisurely 5mph and ramping up to the last 2 minutes at 10 to 12 mph (.5 mph every 30 secs)

4 minutes of walking,then into 3x my bodyweight circuit.

3x
(40s jumping jacks
40s bodyweight squats
40s pushups
40s superman
40s spiderman
40s burpees)
20 s between each station, 1 min recovery between sets.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: November Swim Challenge [daved] [ In reply to ]
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No worries, Dave. No toes stepped on. I'm not that kind of snowflake---I'm the good kind. And I wasn't trying to shut the conversation down. I'm always willing to listen. And I'm often willing to try things, provided I understand the basis and reasoning behind them. :-)

I'm careful with trying to make technical changes to my stroke or the feelings that my on-deck coach has instilled in me. He's the one watching (and taking my money). So, I have to trust that he knows what's imperfect in my stroke and what's #1, and #2 to fix, today. That's why I don't post "evaluate my swim stroke videos". Given that its Bobby Patten, I feel safe in placing that trust in him. If I didn't why pay for it?

Some of your assumptions are probably me being sloppy with my language. My arms don't get tired, its my lats and pecs...specifically around my underarm. Sometimes its also my internal rotators, because I have very tight shoulders and I try too hard to make a clean early catch. I'm working at relaxing at letting the catch "just happen" more.

I do have a lean (for a 50y old), runner's build at 5' 11", 150 lbs, 11 %bf. I wouldn't describe myself as a sinker...and low hips/legs is never something that has been used to describe me---the opposite is generally a comment that's made. I don't know if that means I'm a sinker or not. I have a pretty light 2-4 beat kick---which is becoming more 2-beat and less 4-beat. I swim the same pace with a PB, or a band, or full-stroke. If that's helpful.

Things like your first suggestion of waiting a stroke cycle or so, to inhale and focus on setting the rhythm, and swimming with the speed, are easy. Paying attention to different portions of the stroke, and their rhythms, yep I agree with that too. I do that quite a lot--every second I'm in the water, really. I've spent a lifetime doing various technical, proprioceptive (and rhythmic) things (drumming, figure skating, mogul skiing, tae kwon do, etc). So, I learned long ago to have an observation loop running in my head at all times. But, you focus on a piece at a time, not everything at once. Remember you are asking a drummer (former) a question about rhythm. I started drumming when swimmers started swimming. Multi-way independence is fundamentally what drummers do.
So, picking "one thing" is a bit of a challenge, and a drastic oversimplification. However, my choice reflects the direction of my coach---who gets to see me swim, and select the one (or two) things he thinks are most crucial to work on. His last words to me were, "THAT could be your stroke. For the next two weeks, I just want you to concentrate of replicating THAT feeling. Don't worry about pace, or distance. Just focus on that FEELING every stroke."

But, if you ask me what my left arm is doing, or my hips are doing, or shoulders, or breathing rhythm...I can answer any of those, too. I rotate through all of those at some point every time I'm at the pool. Well...what I THINK I know what they are doing---since I can't really watch, I can't be sure.

With regards to SPL or DPS...I'm not a slave to SPL/DPS. I call it SPL because that's the real measurement I have from my watch. DPS implies knowledge I don't have----how much streamline each length. I *was* obsessed with it once upon a time...back when I was doing TI, years ago. But, its not something I look at or focus on IN THE POOL, anymore. I do look at the data after the fact. Mostly I'm looking for degradation through a hard set...or big changes in SPL when changing pace. Today I focus on stroke-rate and trying to ensure that something is always creating forward propulsion---and that I don't significantly shorten my stroke when I go from 1:45/100 to 1:18/100.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
I'm still enjoying my time out of the water, I'll be really motivated to get back in the new year. Dryland stuff is progressing well, did 20 minutes on the T-mill starting at a leisurely 5mph and ramping up to the last 2 minutes at 10 to 12 mph (.5 mph every 30 secs)

4 minutes of walking,then into 3x my bodyweight circuit.

3x
(40s jumping jacks
40s bodyweight squats
40s pushups
40s superman
40s spiderman

40s burpees)
20 s between each station, 1 min recovery between sets.


What? No "Robins", "Captain Americas", or "Aquamans"?
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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5.4 mi run, 400 yd swim
17/19

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Wasn't feeling it tonight. Just generally fatigued. Probably should have taken the day off yesterday.

WU: 325 straight / 25ez

MS: 20x50 (20s)

No cool down.

15 /19, 30kscy
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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after a couple of weeks of missed or just short swims, finally got back to swimming at the back of my squad today finally.

50m long course

400 mixed warm up (free, back)
2 x 150 on 2:45
4 x 100 on 1:45
6 x 50 on :50
4 x 50 on :45
2000 straight descending effort by 500's
100 easy active recovery
6 x 50 on 1:30 breath control
4 x 100 descend on 1:45
4 x 50 all out on 1:00
100 easy active recovery
4 x 50 all out on 1:30
100 easy cool down

Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Tom,

i didnt feel like you shut anything down here and I am always eager to help folks learn to swim.
With that said, I appreciate your advanced level of drumming ability, no doubt grown over years of practice.
And now as you practice a new thing, (swimming) I would encourage you to look at how you learned to drum years ago.
Now-- behind a drum set multi dimensional work at its finest. The fine motor skills and learned abilities Ill never possess.. tho the wife got a piano.. i think im meant to learn... ahem...
where was i..
oh learning. Yes. You did become stud multidimensional drummer by doing all the acts at once. You learned one. Then you learned another. You got both to the point you could combine them.
And thats where you are in swimming finding rhythm ... youre using your developed skill level on a land based activity that you have learned and grown over time and then falsely assume you can take that talent drumming immediately to a new athletic endeavor. While youre certainly more keen to pick it up quickly (I presume) .. you still have to learn the individual part. And that is the point I am trying to make by simplifying the location of your rhythm and really get dialed into it. Then add in more after you have learned them as well.
Does that make sense?
As far as Im concerend SPL and DPS are the same. They are but one measurement in terms of feedback swimming in a pool. And they are both TOO highly valued as the lower your stroke ct per length is (or the more distance you take per stroke) as measures that reflect improvement. And like I said.. it is damaging to our athletes and sport that we value that. Could you imagine if T&F held that belief to be true?? Usain could run 1 second faster if he could just get more distance on each stride and take 6 fewer strides over 100meters. And just become more of an absurd paradigm the longer the distances go... Soon we will be telling marathoners that they can be faster by doing lunges through NYC.... Anyways.. I digress.
As for your relationship with the water. There are tests to measure this, ive spoken of them before on this webpage. But it has to do with you NATURALLY IE without movement, only breath, to determine your relationship which can then guide you toward appropriate training protocols. I would bet youre more of a sinker than you think. But quietly FU for being 5'11" 150!! super jealous HAHAHA Im 5'10" 180....
(that was kind of a joke I am jealous but def not FU jealous)
----
Look good luck. Keep in mind i was not putting you down for what youre doing but rather trying to guide you towards more success by asking you to take a couple things out of the equation, that you can then decide to add back in, or not, based on performance.

And yes... you dont know what all these other parts of the body are doing bc you are not watching them. And its too much to take in. Hence my simplification for you. Swimming is not a DIRECTIVE sport. It is a feel sport bc we cannot see. So simplifying what we do helps us to be able to raise awareness of what we are doing.

again..Good Luck.
my email is on my website and if you want to send me a video or two of yourself.. please, Id be happy to take a look.
A clip of you getting into the water
a Clip of you swimming
A clip of your interactions w the wall
a clip of you floating face first, lungs full as if you were a dead man in the pool
And a clip of you exhaling and sinking to the bottom from that position would be most helpful.

Sorry I dont know your coach. But I will say, I absolutely could learn from him!

dave

http://www.theundergroundcoach.com
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Re: November Swim Challenge [daved] [ In reply to ]
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300S, 200k, 100p
4x100 on 1:30
5x100 on 1:30
5x100 on 1:25
5x100 on 1:20
5x100 on 1:15 (missed interval after1st)
4x100 cool down 1:30, 1:40, 1:50

Toughest workout since I came out of a 40 year “retirement” 18 months ago.

Sets longer than 1500 are tough now.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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In a pool for a change, since I’m up near Sacramento.
3x(200s @3:10/4x50@45/40/35/30)
10x50s@:45 + 10x50 IM order @1:00
4x200kwf
4x200p
500 s/k/p cool

4300 yardages

Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [HalfSpeed] [ In reply to ]
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They have an 800m free heat at provincials as 800IM....so i signed up and every day this week, I have been doing this:

800IM set as 16x(25m hard +25m easy)....so it goes like this 25 fly hard-25easy four times, immediately into 25 back hard, 25 back easy four times, immediately into 25 breast hard-25breast easy four times and then into 25 free hard followed by 25 free easy 4 times....what a blast.

I missed a bunch fo days or shorter days due to work pressure so now I have 36 days of swimming in the year and I need exactly 3.8K per day every day of swimming to get to 1200 km per year. It's right in the realm of possiblity, but I need a bunch of 30 km weeks on deck now. I think I will need to do some double days in case I miss some due to work.

Dev
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Birthday swim:

10 x 100m @ 1:35, warmup (1:25-1:20)
10 x 100m @ 1:30 (1:20-1:21)
10 x 100m @ 1:35, 25 back, 75 free
10 x 100m @ 1:30 (1:21-:24)
700 as mix of kick and swim
4 x 25 cool-down

4700 plus 100 to grow on
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Re: November Swim Challenge [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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140triguy wrote:
Birthday swim:

10 x 100m @ 1:35, warmup (1:25-1:20)
10 x 100m @ 1:30 (1:20-1:21)
10 x 100m @ 1:35, 25 back, 75 free
10 x 100m @ 1:30 (1:21-:24)
700 as mix of kick and swim
4 x 25 cool-down

4700 plus 100 to grow on

Hey that is awesome! I think you should be set to join me on the Dec 31st ST virtual 10,000m swim. I'm hoping to do it as 20x(400IM+100IM)

OK, am at 1071km down for the year with 129K to go. If I can crank out 29K in the next 6 days then I "only need" 100km in the final month of the year to hit 100 km per month.

My am on a streak of at least one 800IM per day too!
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Re: November Swim Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I don’t really like IM sets all that much. I mostly do long free sets, though I am presently doing some pace work to get ready for a pool 1500scm race next week. I think my goal tops out at 1000km for the year, and I’m about 71k away. Most of my long swims were during the summer. I did a bunch of 8-10km long course sessions on weekends. That built the base for the rest of this year, so I’ll getvtjere no problem. My motivation is waning a bit, and I’m getting ready to add a bit of running to my weeks until about March. Then, I’ll get serious again for maybe a USMS summer National Meet or long distance OWS.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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Last swim was 11/21 (last Wednesday). I took Tuesday off thinking that a rest day might help. But, I still wasn't swimming well...after swimming 12 out of 14 days, and 24,000 yards in that span my body was done.That's my entire average 2018 MONTHLY volume in the span of two weeks, and a stretch of 9 days in a row. I probably overdid it, but now I've had 4 days off.

Anyway, on Wed I started out thinking I'd do 20x50. But, as mentioned I wasn't swimming well. I just kind of messed around alternating between 100s and 50s for about 1000 yards.

Back to the pool tonight after work. Again, I'm not expecting much after 4 days of drinking and eating.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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Good to see you back around the fishes. Haven't seen much of you since your move.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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I’ve been swimming, I just haven’t been posting. I’m still on track to be over 1000km this year, but I’ve been swimming a little less lately.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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a belated happy bday!

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
5.1 mi run easy, 525 yd swim (500 swim 7:30 + 25 kick)

18/27; 12,325 yds

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I’ve very much enjoyed reading swimming posts, so I’d thought I’d share this video my wife took of me doing a 50 SCM in the 200 relay. This is my third-year swimming with the NAC masters in Nashville and my last swim with them as I have moved to MA. When I started with masters I was a BOP triathlete swimmer. I’ve really focused on developing as a well-rounded swimmer so I can fully participate in masters workouts – learning turns, starts, and the strokes. The main in-practice achievements for me this year are finally being able to swim fly, improving my breaststroke, and very occasionally breaking 30s (SCY) for a 50fr.

On fly, I only swim full stroke while I can keep my best form, once it starts to break down I typically switch to a mix of one-arm and stroke. Just being able to do a single length feels like a victory considering how long I’ve been working toward learning butterfly.

My focus on breaststroke has been to improve my timing as that is my primary limiter (no surprise). I tend to kick too early. For most of the year I was stuck at 48 SCY 50 – after 6 months of work with no progress I finally had a break through and now can hit 44 most of the time with a PB of 42 for the 50 and 1:30 for the 100.

At the meet I did my first SCM 100 IM in 1:24.64 with the splits at 40.33 and 44.31. I was supper excited to swim that fast as in practice I’ve never broken 1:30 SCY! I also swam SCM 25’s for the strokes: 17.07 Fly, 17.76 Bk, and 20.1 Br.

The last swim of the meet was the 200 relay. I was the slowest swimmer in the group and was a little concerned that I’d not do well that late in the day. Thankfully my swim was in line with the best I can do at 31.89. I wish I had a video of my swimming from three years ago to see how I’ve improved, but I don’t. I do, however, see many places I can improve! My dives are really poor, and you can tell I start too late. Relay dives still make a little uncomfortable with the incoming swimmer. It looks like my breathing takes me out of alignment and could be improved. I also don’t have anything going on for the underwater. As an adult learner in the 35 – 40 AG I’m not sure how realistic it is to develop a respectable underwater by master’s standards, but I can try! Lastly, I think I took one to many strokes going into the wall.

I am going to miss swimming with NAC!


Last edited by: MadisonGuy: Nov 28, 18 9:59
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Re: November Swim Challenge [MadisonGuy] [ In reply to ]
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thanks for sharing!

race dives - from a logic perspective, you travel SO much farther through the air that you'd have to dive really, really early to hit the oncoming swimmer. If I had time I'd do the physics and figure it out.

for me:
7.1 mi run 63:15
1525 yd swim

main set 10 x 100 on 1:30

19/28 and 13,850 yds

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
25m Pool

w-up
400 bk - 4x (25 dbl arm - 25 catch-up - 50 swim)
8 x 25 fs catch-up on '35

m-set (3000m)
3 x (
4 x 50 Fast bf fins 1 arm on '50
100 catch-up fins
4 x 50 fast bk ('10)
100 catch-up fins
4 x 50 fast bs ('10)
100 catch-up fins
4 x 50 fast fs on '50
100 catch-up fins
)
1st set 4 x 50
2nd set 3 x 50
3rd set 2 x 50

cool-down
400 choice

4000m
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Re: November Swim Challenge [PowerPlay] [ In reply to ]
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A lovely 3 mile ocean swim this morning. Water was about 64 degrees and had some playful texture that beat me up a little bit. 5300 yards in 1:18.
Rain likely tonight which will probably cancel ocean swimming tomorrow and possibly Friday. Bummer!

Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [MadisonGuy] [ In reply to ]
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Very impressive progression. There are lots of good Masters workout groups in MA, but let me know if you need to find one near where you’re located. I was in Nashville for a week in May and “dropped in” to some NAC masters workouts. Seemed like a really good program.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Finally back in the pool. 50s day.

325 straight 25ez
25x50 usrpt @ 43s, failed st: #11, #18, #25
100ez

About 1s slower than the last time I did this set rested. But, felt good... No excessive fatigue lingering.

17/28, 33 Kscy (biggest month ever)
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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20/28, about 15k yards

4.6 mi run, 1675 yd swim

500 swim
50 kick
5 x [100 fast + 50 kick] 1:18, 1:16, 1:16, 1:16, 1:17
375 c/d kick the last 25

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
finally checking in here too..

wanted to ask if you saw your coach or not and any adjustments made.
wishing you continued success.

Main Set Tuesday was: "test set tuesday"

10 x 100 on an interval
I did 1:10 SCY with one other guy.
Managed 104 or 105. Depending on how lazy i was coming into the final wall. ha

I guess the goal would be to try 10 x 100 on 1:05 but that feels like a big leap right now. Ha Esp w all these holiday parties coming up
dd

http://www.theundergroundcoach.com
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Re: November Swim Challenge [daved] [ In reply to ]
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daved wrote:
finally checking in here too..

wanted to ask if you saw your coach or not and any adjustments made.
wishing you continued success.

Not yet. We were out of town for T-giving. I was hoping to meet up this weekend, but my wife has an art show...so, probably the 8th. I'll post a summary when I do, like always.
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Re: November Swim Challenge [MTL] [ In reply to ]
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So another month just passed and a new PB for me.

24 times in the pool the most swim workouts I ever did in a month.
97,300m that's also another PB as my best was done past month 92,200m...

I know Dev would push me to got back to the pool again today for a second workout to round the number to 100,000m but today I barely drag my body for this morning swim about 4000m. I will be honest I feel a bit toasted for the past 2 months, but this is also due that I have re-start indoor cycling with structure workout looking forward for recovery week after this Sunday.

Really hoping to make a breakthrough in my swim with this specific block.

Goal is to swim low 26mins for 1.2mi with a wetsuit alone and if I'm lucky enough find a good pair of feet to draft anything in 25's mins. This year was around high 28-29 mins... Just for the record before people start jumping that's a huge gap, I already did swam 26-27 mins many times in a wetsuit but that's many years back, and once 25:xx mins...

Will I make it? Don't know, at least, I will try... and I'm putting down some sort of work. #grindring
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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21/30, 15950 yards for the month.

Today was a 3.7 mi easy run and a 425 yd swim (4 x 100 on 1:30 and a 25 kick)

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Challenge [MTL] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
So another month just passed and a new PB for me.

24 times in the pool the most swim workouts I ever did in a month.
97,300m that's also another PB as my best was done past month 92,200m...

That's great; good work.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hundreds day.

200wu
2x50 fast
2x100 single arm drills

22x100 usrpt @ 1:41 pace. Failed at #10, #17, #22

18/30, 35k scy
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Combination of being sick and vacation over holidays, and I was out of the pool for 3 weeks. Did a couple 2k get aquatinted with the water again swims, and attempted to do a real workout today. Just some yardages to get me back in the groove:

7x500- 1s@7;30(7;14)1 buoy@7;30(7;09)1 paddles only@7;00(6;42)1 pull@7;00(6;30)1IM kick@10;00(9;30)1 breast@9;00(8;15)1pull(6;44)
3500SCY
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Re: November Swim Challenge [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Dr. Tigerchik wrote:
Quote:
So another month just passed and a new PB for me.

24 times in the pool the most swim workouts I ever did in a month.
97,300m that's also another PB as my best was done past month 92,200m...


That's great; good work.

Thanks Dr Tigerchik!
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Challenge [MTL] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
MTL wrote:
Dr. Tigerchik wrote:
Quote:
So another month just passed and a new PB for me.

24 times in the pool the most swim workouts I ever did in a month.
97,300m that's also another PB as my best was done past month 92,200m...


That's great; good work.


Thanks Dr Tigerchik!


Hey Alex, as of this morning, I need 101 km in the remaining days in December to get to 1200 km for the year. Basically after being run over by the bus, doing rehab and now piling on some mileage I am back on track to average 100 km per month for the year.

Soooooo.....why don't you join me for 100km in December and we can do 1/10th of the month's mileage during the 10,000m IM (or whatever 10k session) some time between Xmas and New Years.

Congrats!
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Dec 1, 18 13:27
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