I think the mitigation of compression sleeves/socks has a lot to do with WTC’s rule change from a few years back that disallowed them for non-wetsuit swims.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Yes, everyone was in sleeves. I for one was glad to not be in them. And was glad to SBR in one suit rather than a skin!

I noticed that Clif was everywhere and must have given away a gillion nut butter filled bars. Really appreciated the coffee boat pics they provided, and the free post race breakfast at Lava Java they paid for.

Huge trend towards "tasteless" drink mixes. Sugar/sweet are out I guess.

Most apparel booths had more women's stuff than men it seemed...haha I'm guessing that was because the women were buying!

A LOT of people riding/running/swimming who weren't racing

And if Trek bikes had a vendor presence I musta missed it...

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Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

My observations:


1) Hoka had to spend a massive amount of money on marketing, from their signage and expo to the amount of shoes being worn by wait staff, volunteers to really just about anyone.
2) Seemed like the bike vendors kept it pretty low key from the expo and overall presence.
3) Who ever decided to leave open a lane of traffic on Kuakini during the bike portion of the race was a really poor decision.
4) Seemed like volunteers were hard to come by, out on the Queen K there was a ton of spectators and seemed like a lot of the aid stations were pretty sparse with volunteers.
5) Kona is still an interesting town, seem to be quite a few people there that don't really like the race being there.

observations:
-on said trisuits, racers were actually following "no unzipping below the sternum" rule during run.
-disappearance of M racing in speedos.
-disappearance of M doing run in croptop / man bra.
-promo swag = predominantly trucker hats. Traditional race hats less so.
-Bogo has stolen Headsweats lunch on above.
-more customization than not. Few in generic or stock suits - in their place were customized team or other branding. Everyone is unique.
-surprised with the frequency of marquee sponsors use of spokesmodels with little basic product / sector knowledge.
-There wasn't any standout marketing creativity.

I was and re: clothing, I am still surprised at how few people cover their arms. Maybe some people are used to it but still, I think most under estimate the power of the sun hitting your skin directly.

2: I said in another post but I'll repeat it here: the amount of athletes getting help from their spectators on the run was unacceptable. I was posted at mile 1 for maybe an hour after the pros passed, so all the leading AGers (was waiting for a local teammate to pass) and right before the mile 1 marker I started counting after 3 or 4 and lost count after around 15 athletes who had stuff handed to them by friends/family. I guess this fits right into the whole drafting argument and enforcement but at least the bike does have officials around the course and drafters do have to be scared of getting caught. Seems to me on the run, there is no fear and it doesn't appear there needs to be any fear as I never saw any officials on the run course. Not in Kona,not in any of the 9 IMs I've done. Not sure why they even have rules for the run course.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

i edited my original post:
I meant quasi disappearance of the top + shorts combo for the 1st 1/3rd of the field.

and interesting about outside assistance:
i rode to mile 22 of the run and did see quite a few riders along "their" athlete. i thought that was a big no-no...

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Kiwami North America
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I would ask you if you think there are true performance benefits from a one piece tri kit? If so, then I think it will last. If there are no performance benefits and it's mostly marketing hype - aka compression socks - then it will fade.

So why not wear long sleeves, gloves, tights? Are sleeves really cooler? Dunno seems counterintuitive to me that more body coverage keeps you cooler, especially the dark colors people covered their backs and upper arms with..

Sleeves certainly test faster on the bike in the tunnel, but I didn't see a whole lot of age groupers out in the wind on their own...

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Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

I think sleeves are here to stay. The performance benefit for 95% of people has been proven over and over. I've probably have found that 1 out of 30 people tested find sleeveless to be faster vs sleeves. Noe the difference between sleeved suits is all over the board. Suit A is faster than suit B for person 1 and the results are reversed for person 2. Rarely will 2 piece or sleeveless kit be faster than Suit A and/or B.

What I find amazing at the races I go to is the number of people not in sleeves but still using por fitting kit or 2 piece kits.

Even though there isn't a lot of aero advantage to sleeves at times in races like IMTX and Kona due to packs, if you're between groups then you're saving time. I think most people have 1 race kit per season and if they are lucky maybe 2 they can rotate through.

I'm pretty sure I've seen research showing some of the material like cool black is actually cooler vs sun on skin. I looked but couldn't find it in my files. Maybe someone will have this info somewhere and can post it

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

yeah that would be interesting to see on the cool black. the only "study" I've seen showed that it decreased the measured temperature of a standard black running shirt by several degrees, though it was still much higher than the measured temp of a standard white shirt.

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Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

It’s not a cotton t-shirt, it’s tech fabric. A lot of those pull water/sweat from your skin and create a cooling effect especially with a breeze. Also, the majority of the fabrics are Uv protectant. So instead of having the sun beat down on you and needing to put sun screen on, the material does that for you.

I’ll take De Soto Skin cooler fabric any day over just bare skin in the sun.

- Fuel belts gone.
- Sunglasses on way out? Majority have visor/shield on helmet and it seems more and more not wearing on run.
- Hats are back in, visors are out.
- In terms of style on kits, it seems like loud designs and colors are out.
- Coordination of some of the kits and even bike schemes is impressive. I had my shoes customized by boa to match my kit. It used to be the pros were the ones looking hot, now it is the AGs and most of the pro kits look like shit IMO.
- Also on kits, it seems like the excessive plastering of sponsors has been toned down. Guys look less like a NASCAR than in years past.
- BOAs now a thing on running shoes. The kienle new balance were the hottest shoe on the island. About time.....

Dunno seems counterintuitive to me that more body coverage keeps you cooler

If you go to any construction site in SE Asia, during the heat of the summer, the workers cover themselves from head to foot with long sleeves, hats and masks on their face. The last thing they want is skin exposed to the sun.

It may keep them cool but it’s also to prevent their skin from tanning. The darker your skin, you are seen as poor and a low income job that has to work outside. The more pale you are, the richer you are seen as.

My ex and her family are Vietnamese and explained that to me and I thought they were kidding until I saw Asians at University walking around with umbrellas in the sunlight.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

It may keep them cool but it’s also to prevent their skin from tanning. The darker your skin, you are seen as poor and a low income job that has to work outside. The more pale you are, the richer you are seen as.



I lived for a year in Thailand and another year in the Philippines and in both countries, dark skin is seen as being poor and to be avoided at all costs. The grocery stores are full of whitening cream.

The men however, do it to keep cool. I know a number of farmers and workers on construction and they say they burn up if their skin is exposed. I don't know how they do it because the heat is unbearable but they said it is far worse without covering up. They don't care too much about having white skin, they just don't want it to burn off.

I actually did see a referee on the run course around mile 4. I noticed it because I don't ever recall seeing one in the 7 other IM's I've done.

Done 13 fulls. Run refs are indeed rare, but I recall one at IM Switzerland 2016 and IM Norway 2018.

well noted for men gear : )
we did run out too quickly. it's hit or miss and this year, what we brought just flew too quickly.

sleeved / no sleeves:
i noticed a ton of sleeved gear made with ordinary fabric. that can work on the bike. but what about the run? i saw lots of sticky, sweat drenched gear: far from ideal for a 26.2 in kona weather. to the point of wondering if the aero gains arent lost during the marathon.

I get the argument that it can be "cooler" than traditional black because it is actually reflective (white) in the infrared. But it looks black, so it is obviously non-reflective in the visible which is where the peak of the sun's photon emittance is and thus the majority of it's energy. That means it can never be "cooler" than something that is reflective across both infrared and visible spectrums. Am I missing something here?

My first Kona was actually a 1 pc sleeved suit by a company called 3 Disciplines. It was a custom suit with white top, front zip. Long before they became a "thing" like they are today. That was back in '95. The other years have all been sleeveless 2-pc suits & I've now got massive sun freckles from being so severely burned in Kona--even with sunscreen 50 SPF..wished I still had that suit or another available. There were some years, where I do not seeing them even being marketed. Then all of a sudden...they appeared and now most use them. Should I decide to ever get back there, I'm definitely going to be using a sleeved suit just for the skin protection. Kids, cover up, you don't want skin cancer!

As for the help to AG athletes on the run course, hopefully, Jimmy Riccitello is reading & puts a run marshal there next year. Given the other DQ thread here right now, They should have a camera rolling there at the corner too, in case someone says, "I didn't do that..."

Thanks Andre for starting this.

With my work here in Kona this year, I was unable to spend very much time at all, working the Expo and doing the networking and connecting that I've done in the past.

Some observations:

1. The total amount of marketing/promotion this year by ALL brands be they in the offcial expo or elsewhere doing their own thing seemed to be up this a year, after taking a bit of a drop over the last couple of years. Was this the hype of the 40th anniversary, or is the sport triathlon in North America truly rebounding?

2. I spent more time then ever on the Queen-K - both driving a car and cycling myself this year (long story). I know it's hallowed ground and all, but other than the wide shoulder I don't find it a pleasant road to ride on. The traffic noise is constant and loud. It only starts to thin out a bit when you head up to Hawi!

3. People have finally discovered the ByPass Road to the south of Kailua - the southern extension of Alii drive if you will! I saw way more people out riding and running on it then in years past! The only challenge is that to ride out there, you are facing nearly a 2000 ft climb right out of the box, if you are going all the way to the top. It does open up some great ride options to places like Captain Cook and the Place of Refuge that in the past had only been accessible by the Hwy.

4. With the Queen K finished fully divided 4 lanes all the way to the airport from Town, the traffic along this section moved along much better than I recall it has for years. There is also a great by-pass of the Queen-K for cycling from Palani to Hina Lani with a fantastic super-wide fitness/ cycling trail that runs along the Ane Keohokalole Hwy just to the east of the Queen K and up the mountain slightly.

5. New bike launches here in Kona do not seem to get the hype and interest that they did years ago - why is that?

6. We were hear 3-weeks before the race, and I was surprised with the low numbers of Pros who were here training. Many seemed to show up the week-of. We regularly saw - Lionel Sanders, Sarah True, Liz Blatchford and Sebastian Keinle - but few if any others!

7. Finally I hope this comes out right. Kona and the town of Kailua have become iconic when it comes to this race, but my feeling the last couple of years, has been that the race has really grown beyond the town and the place. It all feels like it's been shoe-horned and jammed in and for 5 - 7 days it's all bursting at the seams! For IM to move the World Championships from here, would no doubt upset, A LOT of people, but this is pure personal speculation, I would not be surprised if they start a rotational process of some kind in the next few years moving the IM World Championships around the world to other IM Venues - some of which are much more suited to handle an event like this of the size and scale that it is. Perhaps IM could continue to have an IRONMAN Hawaii race just like any other IM race around the world - open to 1500 - 2000 triathletes, but no pros and no "World Championships" title - My bet is that it would sell out every year, and at a premium price!

8. Lionel Sanders - whenever he sorts out a few things will win this race! :-)

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

What I find amazing is that people still blindly trust generalizations on aerodynamic results from things like apparel and helmets.

There is absolutely no certainty in apparel aeroness, and anyone who bets on that without testing themselves is putting a lot of stock in faith, especially when the swim, T1, and run comfort are all considered.

With all my respect, I dont see the point for the AGs to spend so much money in equipment. It's been told that a standard road bike over 4000usd does not change too much compared with a 4000usd one ...in terms of a TT bike...i am not updated. Same with the skinsuit, trainers, helmet, bike shoes....see the old days, allen, scott,etc...the main thing is to train and no need to spend a huge amount of money...i'd rather spend that gap of money in a coach and physio...
just my POV

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Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P

Finally I hope this comes out right. Kona and the town of Kailua have become iconic when it comes to this race, but my feeling the last couple of years, has been that the race has really grown beyond the town and the place. It all feels like it's been shoe-horned and jammed in and for 5 - 7 days it's all bursting at the seams! For IM to move the World Championships from here, would no doubt upset, A LOT of people, but this is pure personal speculation, I would not be surprised if they start a rotational process of some kind in the next few years moving the IM World Championships around the world to other IM Venues - some of which are much more suited to handle an event like this of the size and scale that it is. Perhaps IM could continue to have an IRONMAN Hawaii race just like any other IM race around the world - open to 1500 - 2000 triathletes, but no pros and no "World Championships" title - My bet is that it would sell out every year, and at a premium price!


I think the town does an excellent job of absorbing all the athletes, vendors, spectators, etc. Yet retains a small town feel. Most any other venue would IMO be a lot more hectic. Travel to Kona is obviously a challenge for most, but once there, it's actually fairly relaxing. Good restaurants without long waits. Daily swims. Weather predictable (other than wind). Challenging scenic course. Would be a very difficult place to beat.

I'm gonna bet that if it was just IM Hawaii open to all that the mystique and atmosphere would take a big hit. Look at what happened to St. Croix after the Kona slots left. The racers left.

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Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

thanks Steve for your input and the week long reporting.

1. indeed, interesting to see who was there (as vendors) and who didnt come. there were some noticeable absences or limited presence. the carousel is always interesting to observe.

7. i tend to agree with Terra Man: i think Kona does a great job accommodating the IM burst. wherever i went, even at the crowded aquatic center, i found local people very welcoming. i did hear some mild complains about "iron people" riding their bikes carelessly. but overall, i am still amazed at how courteously i was treated.
i think the kona magic is here to stay. especially in the eyes of foreigners.

ironman village: WTC tried to improve it with a new flow/set up. i'm not sure if that was successful. if anyone has an opinion, please lmk.

Hi Terra-Man, With the Cliff bar photos, do you remember the company name to get them.. I missed getting to the Cliff Bar but remember my number on the blue band they gave us.. Wondering if I can get the photo some how??

Cheers
Steven

Here's a link:

https://www.flickr.com/...164602536@N06/albums

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Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

Thanks, Fantastic!!!!

America and Europe used to be like this as well. My grandparents talked about it occasionally. It was only after outdoor sports and laying around pools became a thing (Maybe in the 1960s?) that being tan represented wealth. If you had a "healthy tan" that meant you had disposable income and time to waste laying around in the sun on purpose. But look at old paintings of European royalty and they are pastey white as heck. The paler you were, the richer you were. Same goes with being plump. Nowadays, being lean takes money and education. A long time ago, poor people were lean and only the rich could afford enough food to actually get chunky. Now, cheap food is so calorie dense and non-nutritious, things have flipped.

Funny how these cultural norms on wealth bias change over time.

First time there. I was really surprised at the amount of homelessness to be honest.

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“The answer is hard work. What are you doing on Christmas Eve? Are you riding your bike? January 1st – are you riding your bike?”- Lance Armstrong

My thoughts

- The level of athlete at front of AG racing is phenomenal
- The utter carnage of pro blow ups
- How quickly the finish gets put up and pulled down is amazing
- lava java huggos have it dialed in
- other restaurants i visited were great. Welcoming and kind. I never heard a server complain. All i hear in Penticton is complain! Past when Ironman was here and present day 20/20 hindsight wishing it was back.
- The aging and becoming tired triathlon media. For example, i saw Bob everywhere as i stayed at Royal Kona & he basically lived at Huggos. He throws a great party btw. TGINR was LIT! But in 2 years Triathlon Taron and Talbot Cox has 4X you tube subcribers and 10x views for their content than Bob. Not saying i like that content but speaks to shifting wants in media channels.
- I watch the pro presser and Greg Welch was terrible. Spoon feeding answers to questions. Saying TMI to Rinny re: breast feeding, and then saying “how can you not love Sara True with that smile...”.....terrible IMO. It was really a terrible presser. Point being WTC is a $500MM business. Get some training to these people.
- Bike check “show” has improved since my last visit in 2011 but i see opportunities to really create stars that WTC is missing. I will leave it at that as my ideas maybe used in other races
- marketing tents outside expo were everywhere. Ceramic Speed was most pro in this regard right by Huggos and where Specialized launch their horrible new Shiv
- where was Trek? I was looking forward to hanging at a Trek booth. Nowhere.
- Lindsey Corbin and Corbin Brands are on point. Top professionals. Great ambassadors. Same for Cliff Bars where they were stationed. Really impressed
- yes Hoka looked to have blown their whole year budget in Kona. BUT.... everyone was wearing their shoes. I tried a pair. They suck
- vinokourov has terrible run form but did like a 3:20 or something. He was all smile at 20k...but please, just go away
- road riding in Kona is incredible. I was in awe of the roads, the climbs, the views. And with road cycling comes its partner COFFEE....and man, HEAVEN. Though surprise lava java lattes & caps kind of sucked. Better java around the corner and on the shop on Palani.

Last the run course change. Yeah bad. They extended the time running in the energy lab and reduced the time running on Alii by miles. Speaking of making stars of their athletes why would they do this? No fans in energy lab. Fans everywhere on Allii. And in turn where they stop fans on the queen K was at 17k.....so NO ONE would see the Lange pass of Wurf for example. Its like they dont want fans anywhere near where the action goes down.

I loved my visit being a non racer And its agreed in the home that my trip to Kona is an annual trip.

And Fleck. All roads lead to Kona. WTC is ALL IN on its bet to Kona. No one gives a shit about a world championship (ask ITU) they care about Kona. So have a WC elsewhere and no one will go. Ask Challenge. Its all Roth. No one cares about their championship race in wherever the hell it is. So. Its all about Kona.

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@rhyspencer

This year was our first time to Kona. My wife raced and I shipped her race bike and my road bike down. Things I noticed...

- Everyone runs down Ali'i Rd which is great fun even for us not racing. We get to find some like paced runners and meet new people. But can we all decide its best to run against traffic? Having to dodge moving cars, parked cars, cyclists and other runners on that narrow road isn't fun for anyone using the road. Make it simple, run/walk against traffic!
- Its hot in Kona but the use of air conditioning by shops with their doors open and by IM in the large outdoor store is just crazy. Close the damn doors or get fans!
- The expo was fun. Liked the smaller vendors/apparel companies. Did anyone else arm wrestle the Quarq power meter?
- IM does a great job making the race setup/tear down as quick as possible to inconvenience locals as little as possible.
- Flats happen A LOT. Both shops said about 50% of riders flat either in training or racing and I believe them. My wife flatted three times in 4 training rides. Luckily she's tubeless and 2 sealed themselves while 1 from a huge goat head thorn required a Dynaplug and a CO2 to keep riding.
- When new tires fit her rear race wheel to tight and changed its shape causing the tire to rub on the frame (I tried 2 new tires with same result), Bike Works was incredibly helpful and got my rear wheel taped for a tubeless setup in less than 30 minutes. I know its a 1 minute job but there was an endless stream of customers with service needs in their door and they stayed on top of everyone getting fast service completed.
- I was not impressed by the food in Kona but the service was great. I'd read that servers hate this week but I couldn't tell that if it is true.
- We went to the ST party, my wife did not want to be in the sun and I figured just a few days before the race the party wouldn't be in the sun. Boy was I wrong. I loved being right on the water but she stayed in the shade until the sun went down.
- Clif! Kept me fueled all race day and I didn't buy a single nut or fruit filled bar!
- Ceramic Speed had an awesome setup! Got a great laugh that their floor was black and absolutely covered in white chain powder. Their staff were great and I really wanted one of their shirts but they were only going with installs of product. So it was an easy decision for me to let them install the chain on my wife's bike I had brought with me. I got a free shirt and didn't have to install a chain, WIN-WIN!
- We stayed down by Kona Country Club with many athletes to be away from the IMWC madness. Huge mistake, we spent a lot of time in the car in traffic to go places M-F. Stay closer to the race if you can.
- Triathletes are not bike handlers. Watching people nearly crash leaving T1 on the carpet was funny and scary. Why have carpet there?

What exactly is "ironman village"??? I've never heard of it until this year.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

What I noticed and surprised me is some athletes wearing neoprene shorts (floaty pants) under their skinsuits for accrued buoyancy: I wonder how referees can police this.

It would be truly interesting to come out of T2 and go straight up Palani and out to the energy lab first...and the last 8 miles or whatever it is now on Ali'i be the last 8 miles of the race. Then when it's money time - there's people with a front row seat for it!

Would be interesting seeing seeing as the Energy Lab seemed to make no difference this year and they aren't scared to change up the course...

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

Interesting, I had never thought of this but the swim skins are the perfect cover for the neoprene shorts. Agree it would be pretty hard to police this with 2500 racers. So now, if you want to, in essence you never have to swim w/o at least a partial wetsuit. Personally, I've never bothered with a swim skin or the floaty shorts, just the old Speedo. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

This came up last year in the post Kona thread. The consensus was that it would need to be monitored in T2 but may not offer a big advantage.

Before getting on the bike the athletes will need to take off the floaty pants and this requires getting the skin suit off and back on. How long this takes depends on the athlete but it’s not negligible. The thought last year was most athletes quickly dump the pants to avoid being caught with the evidence. This adds further time as you have to make a side trip away from prying eyes.

Overall if you are a poor enough swimmer that you gain time going down this route you are not likely to be challenging for any podium at Kona. It’s still cheating and a bit of peer pressure could help sort things out but I’m not convinced it’s a priority to address.

What a bunch of blatant cheating bastards!
I'm sure these same people would never draft. They should be pulled from the race and not allowed to finish. Last year someone commented on all the "floaty" pants found in the Porto John's after the swim. Crazy.......

That blows my mind, "Discarded Floaty Pants in the Porta-John" is my new band name.

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"They know f_ck-all over at Slowtwitch"
- Lionel Sanders

I think a T1 volunteer found a bunch in the porto potty last year. Maybe its time for some officals to set up at the swim entrance.

not sure if you're joking : )

it's a place down ali'i drive where vendors like us pay a fortune to set up a booth. we think it's a good way to engage with athletes and show what we have in store.

i do hope you're kidding : )

Before getting on the bike the athletes will need to take off the floaty pants and this requires getting the skin suit off and back on//

I think they are wearing them under swim skins, so no need to take off your skin suit. They would roll them off with the swim skin, thus having no extra time added to transition. It would be quite a little enterprise though to be at the porto potties collecting them, what are they, nearly a 100 bucks??


And yes, they should pick out a couple of folks and DQ them on the spot, if it is becoming a thing. I have tested them, and for good swimmers they are like a buoy, for those slower swimmers perhaps 3 to 5 seconds a 100( the folks that get 15 to 20+ a 100 out of a wetsuit)

- A lot of Cervelo P5xs
- No presence by Trek and Timex
- More vendors (last year was 2015) seems like expo is still filled and even more so + more vendors at odd locations.

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Ah, so athletes village = expo. Guess I've just heard the term expo more than AV. Also, it is a little confusing since in the Oly the athletes actually live in the AV, but I guess no such luck in Kona. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I just want to point out the Breakfast with Bob is broadcast live on TriathleteMag's website and it only goes up on youtube late and then his youtube channel goes dead for like four months. Then he does Facebook Live events here and there but he doesn't use social media that well if he's actually trying to build the platform. Whereas Talbot definitely understands Social Media to the nth degree.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Very good point. I would love to see that viewing live data. Bobs a classic but the interviews are repeat button. Especially with repeat guests year after year.

Again, TGINR was a great FKN party! That alone Bob gets my high fives!

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@rhyspencer

Gman: is that true...you can’t wear compression socks in a non wetsuit swim race (I’m talking about on the run)?

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Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.

He means you can’t put compression socks on before the swim in non-wetsuit events. So many won’t take the time to put them on in transition. They are legal for the run (bike too).