It’s been title sponsored by some company for years (decades). Ford was the title sponsor for years. GoPro has done it for a few years.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

I know. Well, it is a new sponsor. Today more powerful than any other sponsor before (in financial terms). Reactions here in Germany are "how can you? Amazon is such a bad boy. Ironman is selling out their soul. Etc.". Maybe the reputation in the Us is different and the reaction is "who cares". Don't know. Just asking/posting...

So, is this good or bad? A lot of financial power goes in. And no doubt that triathlon is on the map of large companies. Some (or many) might say that this kills the spirit of Kona ... if there is any left.


If by the "spirit of Kona" people mean the spontaneous, accessible and cheap event that happened in the early years, that was killed decades ago. As evidenced by the popularity of the large IM races, people want commercialize and crowded races so in that sense, Kona is what people want and have.

To those who tend to say that Ironman (especially with support of Amazon) is killing our sport: Stop participating in Ironman events, support your local race. And stop ordering from Amazon...


Sponsors don't kill a sport, they go where the demand goes, following the crowds. It's the athletes who pay high fees and enter crowded races that attract sponsors so if there is blame, it's on the athletes.


I'm certainly not going to stop buying my books from Amazon because they sponsor a triathlon.

It does seem odd though, I mean in the UK at least Amazon has quite the reputation for flogging cheap knock offs of genuine cycling gear - Im taking 3T carbon bars that snap when going downhill, Giro helmets that aren't safe. Its been on TV , they've been sued and I for one would not buy a single thing from them while they are happy to scam people like this.

For me it is odd for Ironman to want to assosciate with a brand that has history of knowingly causing cyclists life changing injuries just so they can make a few extra £'s/$'s...I would imaging that Ironman could find other headline sponsors.

I’d have to think a non-endemic title sponsor with deep pockets is going to be a good thing overall.

Eta: apparently, it’s a nutrition marketplaxe they are launching. Reading the whole article is helpful before commenting.

Reading these posts was quite an eye opener for me as here in the states we seem to have quite a different view of Amazon. I don't think anyone really hates them and most people love the money they save and the efficiency of their Amazon membership. There is some grumbling about large corporate companies but for the most part Amazon is very well liked. I don't have an opinion either way on their sponsorship. Was just surprised at the difference of opinion across the Atlantic.

Agreed. In the UK they are destroying family businesses and paying no tax so all of the spend goes out of the country. I know people choose to spend with Amazon and then complain that the country cannot afford certain public services etc but you cannot have it both ways.

I for one despise them and it is a shame that Ironman has partnered with them...I kind of think they are two peas from the same pod. Corporations that dont give a monkeys about their customers so long as it makes them a couple more $'s

You say that you despise Amazon, as it would have "knowingly caused injuries/accidents to people" and "destroyed local businesses".

Let me guess, you or your family/friends have (had) such a local business? Cause to me, it seems that your arguments are made out of hatred rather than else.

I don't see the shame in Ironman and Amazon partnering. I, for one, prefer to wait to see what this brings, before ranting online.

Yep they have knowingly sold fake giro helmets that offered no protection and sold stuff like '3t' bars that sheared during descents... if a real shop did this they'd be boycotted. But hey, Amazon can do no wrong in some peoples eyes.

Personally Id prefer to pay the same amount (or a little more sometimes) and speak to an actual person and help my community. I am in the minority.

I have trouble believing this is the overwhelming reaction. Have you taken a look at a Bundesliga Jersey lately?? Your players are walking, running, advertisements! The concept of advertising is hardly new to sport. You think IM is going to pass us the chance to have one of the biggest commercial giants in the world be it’s title sponsor???? Not a chance. This was a huge score for IM (the private company).

I agree, of course they will do it - I just think it is a shame. Ford, Go Pro etc etc is fine but I hope (doubt) IM asked questions that they should have during their due diligence.

Again, my opinion but I am also fully aware that the greater population very rarely feel that online giants such as Amazon can do any wrong.

...every weekend. Not sure what you have watched. Please do not mix German Bundesliga with e.g. Austrian soccer league. Totally different. But anyway. I am not blaming IM for picking Amazon as a sponsor (or vice verse). I have an opinion on Amazon, yes. But don't judge on the IM-Amazon cooperation/sponsorship. IM is a brand that wants to make money (and produces good value for the money that triathletes pay, imho), Amazon wants to make money, so they go together. Understood. And if I not had little kids that make travel difficult I would be on Hawaii in a few weeks and would give a sh** about who the sponsor is ;-)

There are two sides to the medal. Most people just don't care. They are happy about the possibility to order online in a very convenient way, allowing them to safe money. However, some people care and are concerned about bad conditions for workers at Amazon (very low wages) and the fact that little shops downtown have to close because they simply lose customers to Amazon. I personally avoid shopping at Amazon, but that does not mean anything personally good or bad about the IM/Amazon relationship...

[/quote]

...every weekend. Not sure what you have watched. Please do not mix German Bundesliga with e.g. Austrian soccer league. Totally different)[/quote]

How did I mix them up??? I’m quite familiar myself...since my teenage years. Since you said you are from Germany, I assumed you would would understand the reference. My point which I think was very clear is the players’ jerseys are littered with ads so this concept should hardly new or surprising in the year 2018.

So I'm curious, does Amazon work differently where you are? in that they aren't simply a middleman that essentially sells either directly from the brands itself or from actual retailers?

A quick search for 3T handlebars on Amazon and 7 of the first 8 products that appear are sold from 3T itself. The top 'sponsored' item isn't 3T nor brands itself as 3T, it's sponsored and one would have to be daft to order it thinking it is 3T. Not necessarily being pro-amazon, I know the internet can work differently in other countries so please elaborate on the 3T thing...

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Does this mean free Kona Travel if you have Amazon Prime membership?

...every weekend. Not sure what you have watched. Please do not mix German Bundesliga with e.g. Austrian soccer league. Totally different)

How did I mix them up??? I’m quite familiar myself...since my teenage years. Since you said you are from Germany, I assumed you would would understand the reference. My point which I think was very clear is the players’ jerseys are littered with ads so this concept should hardly new or surprising in the year 2018.[/quote]


Ads are neither new nor surprising to me. And I am not against it. Nor am I against a sponsorship of Amazon of an IM event. Not sure why you believe anything would be surprising to me. However, I do not understand the reference when you say that a Bundesliga jersey would be littered with ads. I see one major sponsor on the chest and a little one on the sleeve. Btw: Most Bundesliga clubs are member owned, not by companies or private persons. Well, but all this completely diverts from the original question ;-)

Not sure if it will be good or bad, but the soul unfortunately was gone a long, long time ago. Because ironman/WTC and amazon have more than a bit in common in terms steamrolling over competitors ...

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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Once WTC agreed to float a Ford SUV in the bay at the start in Kona, nothing surprises me. I'm going to wait and see what Amazon does as title sponsor. The soul of IM lives out on the Queen K in the lava fields between the resorts.

I'd say that it lives when you are about to swim out to the start line, when you are out in the Energy Lab and when you take the final turn onto Ali'i Dr. ;-)

Triathletes are funny creatures. We whine and cry about the cost of gear, then make big box companies out to be bad. We whine and cry about how little money pros make, then complain about big box companies killing the sport. Wtf? Triathlon is such a microscopic sport that we should be BEGGING for a sponsor like amazon.

Could be worse

Could be Walmart

< too many pix to choose from >

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

I don't know if it's good or bad, but mainly, I don't give a rat's ass who the title sponsor is. As to supporting my local race, that would be the Great Floridian Triathlon which last year did not even have a 100 finishers. My age group (M60-64) at Ironman Florida will easily surpass the entire field at GFT. It's like telling someone to skip the majors and go back to Little League. Fat chance on that happening. And one other thing, Amazon is the only place I can order Chocolate PowerBars! The local grocery stores, LBS, running stores, etc., no longer stock them. I have no intention of dropping my Amazon Prime membership.

This post reminds me of one I saw on Facebook the other day about Ironman's acquisition of Rev 3 HIMs. All the WTC haters were saying they were going to support indies ... soon. Yeah, I've been hearing that story for over 10 years. The fact is, it's all talk, and indie registrations keep falling because for the most part, you get what you pay for and people know it.

I am all for this...bring in the large title sponsors...which might bring in more competitors..which might make entry fees not so damn ridiculous.

I feel like Jeff Bez should throw in $250,000 in prize money out of his own pocket (he would make this back in like 10 seconds). Money makes the world go around - this sport needs all the money it can get

Get this straight though. Amazon isn't destroying the family owned business. Just like Starbucks isn't destroying the family owned coffee shop. Amazon is going places because the consumer demands the stuff.

When it comes to "fake giro" helmets...I doubt it. They probably sold a look a like under a different brand name. When it comes to my chinese knockoff "sponeed" cycling shorts, uh, that shit is obvious. In fact all of the amazon brands are obvious...and the only reason they're being retailed is because the consumer wants that stuff.

So if you're going to blame anyone for the demise of the mom and pop store, you gotta blame your neighbors that buy on amazon instead of going down the street. That's the reality.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

It hopefully means Amazon, and their extensive streaming experience (like Twitch) can help bring better online broadcasts of IM events.

I think this is generally a Good Thing, as Amazon is one of the very largest corporations in the world, so Kona will have (the potential) for some serious $ behind it.

As for fake shit being sold by Amazon - it's not Amazon themselves per se that's doing that, it's the thousands of affiliated vendors who sell THRU Amazon that do that.
Just like on eBay, there are scammers and BS artists trying to get over on consumers.
YES - it would be great if Amazon did a better job policing that, but buying online is always caveat emptor.

We've been Prime members for ages, since we seemingly order from there multiple times a month, if not a week.
Getting the free video and music is a nice bonus.

I've heard Amazon treats their employees poorly, but - aren't there Federal laws about that?
Work hours and conditions, minimum pay levels, etc.

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float , hammer , and jog

What percentage of people (endurance athlete or not) drive a Ford, or would consider buying a Ford?
What about a GoPro?
Amazon?
Whole Foods?

I don't see how this isn't a huge win for both sides.

problem started happening when Amazon opened its Marketplace to Chinese sellers, and unscrupulous parties started selling fake product. Outside magazine did a good overview of retailers' struggle with Amazon,


https://www.outsideonline.com/.../amazons-war-on-gear


from one of the references in that article,
"Birkenstock stopped selling its shoes on Amazon earlier this year, citing a rise in counterfeit products and unauthorized sellers."
Presumably the same thing happened to 3t etc in the UK.


Apart from their vile labor practices, my other main problem with Amazon is as noted in that article,
"many analysts believe that Amazon’s retail operations continue to lose vast sums of money, with one estimating some $2 billion in shortfalls during the first quarter of 2018. Fueled partly by its lucrative cloud-computing services while it expands its share of the retail market, the company is a destroyer of businesses that need to make a profit to survive. "


Other background,
https://www.theatlantic.com/...zos-billions/566552/

For the curious out there, the Reply All podcast did a good deep dive into the subject - https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/124

Does this mean that the live coverage of the race will be in full glorious HD (or even 4K?) with a decent streaming rate. (i.e The complete opposite of the shocking 70.3 Mens race recently)

Or does it mean that only Amazon Prime members will be able to watch it live?

I think the European races have been insulated from the lowest/cheapest/most profit mongering common denominator that exists in the states. Nearly all events here are WTC owned, not many licensees. I believe the inverse is true in EU.

My experience at a couple of Euro events was that there was an authenticity to the product that the North American market lost when Graham sold to Tampa.

Knowing the internal workings of the offices here and the target profit margins that were demanded you begin to get irritated with a monopoly taking advantage of their status and not being a steward of the sport.

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

e.g. facebook comments on an article from tri-mag.de. I agree, the articles were quite neutral, just sharing the news. However, reactions were negative in some parts ... as they mostly are today in social media ;-(

Looking at amazon itself, you could e.g. find here an article talking about the conditions at work: https://www.theguardian.com/...e-working-conditions

So, if some of you are anti Amazon being title sponsor of Kona, then who should be? Every company has skeletons in their closets. So, perhaps instead of trashing companies that step up and help make Kona possible, maybe you can list those companies with deep pockets that has absolutely no negatives in its entire history for any stakeholder and is willing to sponsor a bunch of upper middle class type A weekend warriors doing a non-revenue sport that receives very low rating on TV? This should be a fun list.

This one is double edge...I put it in the same category of Bud Light sponsoring Kona. Alcohol destroys health however you cut it, so its a bit counter to sport even though we like to brainwash ourselves that poisoning our body with alcohol is fine (if somone told a kid who never heard of it, if he would put something in his mouth that made him dumb, fat and slow, probably would not take that substance)....back to Amazon, like Bud they have deep pockets, but in a different way they also are gradually dismantling the triathlon ecosystem by putting the LBS out of biz. The LBS used to be the cornerstone anchor of the local tri scene. Maybe that is replaced now by clubs + Amazon. Still the demise of the LBS in general is a bit painful.

Fat slow and dumb? Ha, after a few beers I'm the most clever, funny and best looking guy I know, capable of achieving incredible athletic feats like diving over (or into) stationary bushes ... ;)

Are you referring to the tritime magazine? Well, Bahrain is a completely different story. Enough said by Sebi when he quit taking money from Bahrein...

No, actual fake giro helmets...there were TV investigations (BBC ONE, FAKE BRITAIN) and all sorts in the UK about it - I didn't experience it myself because I buy my kit at shops but plenty did and it was widely publicised...but I note the "don't be nasty to amazon" tone so I shall just leave these facts where they are and move on.

Is Amazon a good sponsor for Ironman? Absolutely. The % of people that actually have any negative connotations with Amazon is relatively small. And if Kona ends up on Amazon Prime for a while that’s another audience reached.

If you’re buying niche cycling products through Amazon then....wow.

Amazon and all large corps have rules set out to them by HMRC and the govt. It is these two groups who are making local business struggle, not Amazon! Furthermore the property market in the UK is just horrendous so high street retail is all but dead for LBS.

If the tax man wanted to encourage local businesses they could, instead they choose to under regulate larger corporations because the revenue the tax man gets is still higher!

Awesome, another climbing fan! :) I watched it as well. Cheering for Megos. He lives nearby!
Do you use climbing as cross-training?

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Paulo Matos

+1

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Paulo Matos

Last Year Redbull TV had a decent quality live stream of the race at Kona, you could view it off their website (you had to register but it was free), or in my case, I just watched it through Apple TV's Redbull TV app. I'm hoping that's back this year, and I can't see why it wouldn't be. There was the odd advert, mainly for other RedBull TV programming...

thought this happened many many years ago...

I am all for this...bring in the large title sponsors...which might bring in more competitors..which might make entry fees not so damn ridiculous.



I don't think that is how things work.

I last raced an Ironman in 1992 and since then, the number of competitors and race fees have gone up exponentially. Has there ever been a triathlon where they lowered fees because of more competitors?

I haven't seen this part added to the thread yet, or I missed it, so apologies if already discussed.

Amazon Opens Pop-Up Nutrition Store With Ironman Sponsorship[/url]Amazon’s sponsorship will provide participants access to a “vast selection of nutrition products,” all located in the same location on Amazon’s online Ironman store. The majority of the products located within the store will include third party certified supplement products, which Ironman says will help athletes “reduce the risks that are often associated with supplement use.”[/url]Full Article: https://www.sporttechie.com/...ironman-sponsorship/
Link to Store: http://www.amazon.com/ironmanrace

[/url]

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

...GoPro has done it for a few years
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Weird that GoPro didn't re-pony up for title sponsorship for a race organization and sport that outright bans the use of it's technology during the race and sport it's sponsoring. Weird, I tell ya.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Good for WTC but I don't support places that knowingly sell knock-off/imitation goods. Not only that but I've rarely found Amazon to have the best prices on the stuff. If you take some time and shop around you can almost always get similar prices elsewhere but people don't want to spend the time doing that, I get it.


Amazon is basically an online Walmart, another company I'll never give another dollar to but clearly I'm in the minority.

Judging by the fact that Amazon makes a non-trivial amount of money on paid site placement under normal circumstances, and they seem to have called a part of their health section the "Ironman" section, part of me is wondering if the money flow didn't move at least somewhat in the other direction.

Dev,

I think your statement was pretty spot on, but this part I think is a little deceiving. Amazon is a marketplace that allows 3rd party sellers to sell on their marketplace. So, much of the putting the local shops out of business is being done by their competitor shops selling as a 3rd party through Amazon's marketplace. Even if Amazon is shipping it to you, it's being sent to Amazon Distribution Centers by a manufacturer selling through the marketplace or a 3rd party seller. It is possible for every shop out there to bolster their sales by selling on Amazon's marketplace.

Pricing competition on Amazon hurts business everywhere, and I will agree with that. It's changing the landscape of retail. That said there are a lot of brands undertaking major strategy changes in how they manage their business on Amazon to counteract this average unit retail erosion. This is all in an effort to stabilize and grow business with an Omnichannel approach that includes marketplace selling.

As far as selling counterfeit product? As more and more white-label brands establish themselves on Amazon's marketplace (just check out how easy Alibaba makes it to source product from Asia now), the opportunity for counterfeit product is definitely growing. I can say that Amazon will aggressively pursue sellers that are posing knockoffs for trademarked product though. It is in their best interest. Buyer/ Customer satisfaction is very high on their list of priorities.

Is Amazon the bad guy? I can't agree or disagree on this, but internet marketplace selling is a necessary evil now. As someone mentioned above, this is what society is asking for with our instant gratification needs.

Is Amazon putting the LBS out of business? Their marketplace, Ebay, Walmart.com, etc, could have a big part in it. But they also open new opportunities for these LBS's to expand their business to a national or international audience if they are selling goods. I think the bigger discussion about who is putting the LBS out of business should include the gray market.

Overall this is a good partnership for Amazon and a good partnership for Ironman in my opinion, no matter how bad both entities are. This seems like a business move for both sides.

This is my 2 cents on this. I do hope that streaming will go on Redbull's channel. They have it dialed. You can watch a livestream of WC mountain bike racing in the woods in remote places all over the world in HD. Hopefully they can figure it out for Kona!

Jake

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Get outside!

Amazon is one of those things that I see people having wildly differing views from "I hate them" to "I buy almost everything on Amazon". Me personally, I am still a value shopper and will visit Wal-mart for many things. Amazon won't necessarily be the cheapest, and there are certainly items were sellers take advantage of market demand/supply, but in general there is a lot of value. Take for instance, that in my last trip to Wal-mart I bought an absolute piece of junk water bottle scrubber, didn't know it was going to be that bad, but it was the only option and it was $2.99. I have one coming tomorrow from Amazon which I hope is vastly superior, a Oxo Good, and based on the description and reviews I feel vastly more confident with it. It was shipped 2-day (I am prime member) for $4.99. You just can't beat that can of value. No getting in the car, traffic, gas, wear-and-tear, crowds, long lines etc.

Now on the flip side, I was actually going to use the following product as a secondary example of the above because I was actually at Costco tonight looking for it but I couldn't find it. I have ordered this product from Amazon at a $1-2 upcharge because to go to Costco from my location is a 3-hour adventure. This product was only stored in Costco, so people actually go to Costco and buy it and then list it for sale on Amazon. Anyway, I just searched now and this $7.99 item, a miraculous little melatonin pill with some additives made by Schiff, is now selling for $150. You might think this is a mistake but I guarantee this is not and I can also guarantee that this 3rd-party seller is actually selling these at this prices too which indicates (1) just how addicted we can be to our brands/products or (2) just how clueless some people can be

But by and large, I find Amazon prices to be competitive and fair, albeit usually not the rock bottom sales prices you can find if your shop around.

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No they weren’t selling them. People we’re buying them from a third party seller from China.

https://www.bikebiz.com/features/fake-helmets

“Back in 2014 BBC's Fake Britain programme reported on a fake Giro cycle helmet. "It's part of a growing industry, where the fakers are trying to make money out of the success of cycling," said reporter Matt Allwright.

Charity cyclist Andrew McCreery of Northern Ireland had bought one of the fakes from Amazon.co.uk, not realising it was from a Chinese merchant.“

This is no different than if you went on eBay and saw something was being shipped from China and the product is significantly cheaper than what it should cost. Of course it’s fake. I understand that Amazon should try to stop counterfeits but it’s not that simple. You can set up a seller account in no time and for Amazon or eBay to block all these fake it’s like playing never ending game of wack-a-mole.

But to same Amazon was selling it just isn’t true. If you bought something from the classified section here and you didn’t receive it would you say that slowtwich was at fault?

That said it does sound like Amazon is now having some issues with 3rd party sellers fulfilling through prime and having their fakes slipped in with the authentic product. Given how many skus there are on prime this isn’t surprising. Luckily Amazon has the easiest return policy in the world so if you do realize something is fake when you receive it, you can return it. From the very limited articles I can find this is not what was happening in 2014, it was specifically buying from 3rd party sellers.

I rarely , if ever, have a phenomenal experience at the LBS. most of my friends would say the same

If my LBS sold online, I’d buy from them and potentially pay a bit more

I think, for the most part, that’s killing the LBS. Not Amazon

Sorry, sidetracked

I am a partner in 3 bike shops. Internet shopping hurts, but it helps in numerous ways as well. We have grown sales 12 years in a row.

I am a triathlete and I enjoy slowtwich, so take this the right way please: People on here greatly overestimate how valuable triathletes are to bike shops. It’s a very small part of thr bike market, and triathletes have always been mail order/deal hunters.

We are by far the biggest shop in our town and less than 1% of our sales come from Triathletes. We do a lot of service for them, but can’ t sell them anything. There is a real culture of deal hunting.

Positive side of websales for a shop like ours is people order the wrong stuff a lot and we are able to tactfully show our expertise and help people. In addition, web sales is a real barrier to entry for a small shop, and little ones have had to close. The big brands price protect, market well, and in most cases make superior stuff.

I can see both sides of it. I live on an island in Canada. Getting stuff shipped here absolutely sucks. I work in construction. Sometimes, I need a new tool, or piece of hardware, or something. I'll call my local supplier, and get answers back like "we can have that for you in 4 weeks when we place our next large order". 4 weeks? I need that tomorrow. I'll go on Amazon, get the product for less, shipped to my door in 2 days. I've even called suppliers back and said "I'd rather give you my business, you should consider ordering stuff from Amazon and I'd buy it for a modest mark up" yet, no takers... IMO I don't see how businesses that far behind the curve will survive, and I don't quite feel bad about it.

On the other hand, they are quickly moving in to Monopoly territory and will have us all by the short and curlies in a few years, and besos will be emporer of the universe, so there is that...

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Long Chile was a silly place.

I'm from the UK and I think the Amazon working conditions, low pay and and Lack of tax are much more of an issues with the public at large than some shady bike parts.

Our love of everything along has led to the demise of our high street shops.

Amazon rightly or wrongly catches most of the flak but the consumer has make this choice.

They make more than enough to pay fairly, give workers proper benefits and pay more tax.

It’s great that Ironman have a huge sponsor but in the UK at least these sort of working practices need curtailing.

https://www.businessinsider.com/...2018-4?r=UK&IR=T

https://www.businessinsider.com/...2018-4?r=UK&IR=T

Hopefully I get a free entry into a Kona lottery with my Prime membership.