For training, sure. I use Strava mapping on my road bike all the time. I like the route functionality on Strava better than on my Garmin Edge.

For racing, nope. WTC will disqualify you for cell phone use such as having mounted to your bike.

From the IM rules and regs:

(iii) Athletes may not use communication devices of any type, including but not limited to two-way radios, cell phones, smart watches, smart helmets (i.e., helmets enabled with Bluetooth® technology), in any distractive manner during the Race. A “distractive manner” includes but is not limited to making and receiving phone calls, sending and receiving text messages, playing music, using social media, taking photographs, and mounting the device to a bike for purposes of using the device like a bike computer. Using a communication device in a distractive manner during the Race will result in disqualification; (iv) Headsets or headphones are prohibited during the bike segment of the Race;

Ahhhh and there is the problem :(

I hate the thought of having to shell out for substandard crap when I have a phone in my jersey pocket already that does everything the bike computer does but better!

Using Garmin is like using windows 2000 with a virus. I guess there best alternative is a Element...?

I find that I use my Garmin watch more than I use my Edge when I'm on the TT Bike. When I'm on any of my other bikes, I'm using the Strava app on my phone.

I have the Edge 520 and I find that it is laggy as hell.

I feel your pain.

How is it for viewing power? All I really want to see is power. I need glasses to read so a large display is needed, not sure how big something like the Fenix can display one or two metrics?

I see some of the newer bike computers can send and receive messages. Are they banned?

For the same reason Garmin created the Edge 500 after getting feedback from the old UCI Garmin cycling team who used the Edge 800 for a season.

Simple is better.

That’s a very good point! Along with pretty much every watch these days! Seems like the rules are lagging reality..

I used to use my phone instead of a computer for mountainbiking. No problems with it, I just got sick of having a large device mounted on my handlebars and decided I preferred the simplicity of my fitness watch.

On my road bike I use a computer. I find my watch too hard to read without breaking aero position and don't have much room to mount a phone.

I had this exact same thought about 2 or 3 seasons ago. My plan was to use the Garmin 910 for racing and my Android phone (and later iPhone) for training. But last year September I caved and bought an Elemnt Bolt.

Reasons:
- Battery life.
- I tested all apps I could get my hands on, and they all missed something I wanted. The Strava one is lacking, the Wahoo one is lacking, the Powertap one is lacking. Ride With GPS is lacking. The best one was ipbike, but that's Android only. Let me know if you want more detailed reviews :-)
- All apps were hard to use when riding, especially for somebody with old man eyes, and doubly especially with a heart rate at or over threshold.
- Battery life.
- The screen of both my Samsung S5 and iPhone don't like rain (or sweat dripping from your face)
- iPhone and ANT+ sensors is challenging, and I have yet to find a good BLE heart rate strap.
- Did I mention battery life?

The only pro I can see is mapping, but when I got lost in the wild, marshy wetlands between Amsterdam and Rotterdam last year, and fired up Google Maps, that whole battery life issue really became a problem. And while I can buy battery packs, the research I did into those showed me that for the price of a good one I can buy an Elemnt.

And call me old, or old fashioned, but I don't see the point of making a user interface colour if black and white does the job *and saves you battery life*. And you obviously have never seen an eighties app if you think the Elemnt isn't better :-D

In summary: it can work, if you solve the battery issue, and are willing to live without some features in the app you use. And if you don't sweat :-)

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Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.

I have a Fenix 3 and I customized the bike screens - you can view power quite easily.

I do think that the phone will replace the bike computer soon. Just not yet.

Things that will have to happen first.

• Phone will have to reduce back in size and form factor. Think back to the Iphone 5 size, or roughly the size of an Edge 1030.
• Screen contrast will have to improve in direct sunlight.
• Battery will have to be able to last a 6 hour ride with all sensors on, then still last you the rest of the day with normal phone use. Without a battery pack case. I certainly don't like the feel of a half pound phone in my pocket through the normal course of my day.
• Barometric altimeter will need to be built in.

But that's me thinking as a road racer who doesn't do triathlons anymore. I don't think you're going to see a lot of triathletes willing to leave their $800-1000 phones on their bikes in T1 or T2...even if it were allowed by the rules.

Until then, I rather spend $250 on a dedicated bike computer that does it's job better than a phone and doesn't interfere with my phones ability to be a phone the rest of the day.

Richard Blaine reminded me of the other main reason I stopped using my phone - sweat on the screen. My phone would get a bit of sweat on it and start changing pages, closing apps, etc. It would treat the moisture as a touch. Then it was almost impossible to switch back with a wet screen.

Have had a Garmin Edge 1000 for 2 years and no real problems with it, other than the fact that the navigation doesn't handle out and back courses or multiple loops very well. So not glitchy, and while it's not the sleekest bit of kit it's less clunky than a phone in a battery boosting case would be. Also cheaper than a high end phone so I'm not as worried about it being stolen or broken in a crash. Seems to be more robust and certainly more waterproof than a phone and the touchscreen works even in torrential rain. Works with ANT+ devices, not just Bluetooth. And it has the advantage that because it's not a phone I'm not going to have calls and messages popping up during a ride (I know I could turn off some connectivity while still leaving Strava running but that's just extra hassle I don't need).

Just arrived from IM70.3 Kraichgau where for the first time they said they would allow mobile phones on the bike to be used as bike computers.
While I am at it... they allowed helmets and race bibs on the bike as well, a big change from previous IM races I have been to.

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Paulo Matos

Garmin edge 500 has all features, 8 customizable fields on one page with loads of data options... Continuous display with no standby, without pushing a button. The buttons are on side so if you do want page 2 or 3 or 4....and you have it mounted between your hands you can operate in aero

Plus mounting between hands means that you don't have to look down as far which has aero benefit as wel as safety benefit as wel as convenience

It's all weather proof and won't expose you're phone to dust and sweaty fingers and there's no risk of your phone ejecting by accident

Mount's twist easier if you have a heavy phone with double battery mounted on it

It works in the rain and snow and doesn't overheat in sun and it doesn't matter if you're wearing gloves

Weird that you are put off by a basic monochrome display in a bike computer (Wahoo Bolt). All it needs to do is show the data, right? What are you wanting to do? Watch an episode of Peaky Blinders on Netflix while you ride?

WHS^

I've got a Bolt. I keep my phone in my back pocket and only get it out to take a pretty picture of my bike or to lie to my wife about being only 10 minutes from home.
The rest of the time the Bolt gives me more than enough information.

No, but its hardly cutting edge. All these devices are priced at a premium that doesn't correspond with whats is being delivered. And I think a black font on a white background would look far better and clearer.

That is your opinion, on all three points, and all opinions are valid. It depends on whether you prioritise form over function, and whether or not you place value on the underlying technology, the algorithms, the communication protocols, the database, and the intelligent UI design (which is exceptional in the Bolt).

For my own part, the important thing is screen clarity to make sure that I can easily read the data that matters to my performance in a variety of different light conditions and viewing angles. The Bolt is very easy to read even if you angle it flat (ie, in-line with the stem) under the glare of the sun... may not be so easy to achieve with a polychromatic display or with a perfect white background? I don't know for sure, but this is the best display I've seen if your priority is to be able to read the data in all conditions.

But for myself when I consider what is or isn't cutting edge and whether the premium I pay represents value, I try to think about the technology on offer and how well it supports the use to which I am putting it. All I really need is to be able to see how many watts I'm making, or occasionally where my next turn is.

Your own mileage may, of course, vary.

Of course none of this is true if it is a bike frame, in which case I just want it to look pretty and ideally be red.

Ive had a lot of glutchy issues with my 820. But over the last 6 months or so, the thing has been solid. I think a lot of my glitches were settings accidentally turned on or off. I knock on wood as I say this, but if it always worked like this, id be happy. I know some update will roll through and set it off into a tailspin of freezing up or something.

I had far too many issues with my Garmin Edge 520. Battery life issues. Failure to sync data. I wasn’t terribly disappointed when I lost it a couple weeks ago. I bought a lezyne super gps on sale. If that doesn’t workout, I’ll probably switch to the wahoo elemnt bolt

One of my problems is (ignoring economies of scale etc) that for example a Garmin 1030 costs $750 compared to an iphone 7 which you can buy for $850. Now comparing the "underlying technology, the algorithms, the communication protocols" etc between the two is like comparing a chalk board with a super computer.

But I do understand that its much harder for a company to produce 'small' batch products at a similar cost base. Its just annoying though, particularly when Garmin are such an unreliable and glitchy product.

I guess I should just admit defeat and buy a Element.

Ive never felt confident mounting my phone to my bar/stem. It always felt like it could fall off at any moment. I could have just had a sucky mount though.

Except:

• not getting trashed by a 2 hour rain ride
• handling being dropped or crashing without missing beat
• being readable in bright light
• hooking up to your ant+ devices
• having a fully customizable screens with lots of different data fields
• decent battery life with the screen always on
• being mounted securely to your bike without spending $$$ on a mount

Gee grasping at straws much? Both iPhone and androids are mostly water resistant now. Not sure how often you drop your bike computers and if it’s a selling point but I’m not sure how well a Garmin screen would stand up. Never had a problem reading my phone in daylight? Battery life is easily doubled to 8+ hours. Secure to bike easily for the same price as any other mount...

But they work like shit when wet, or worse, when wet and cold. I can work my Elemnt with gloves and Raynauds-numbed fingers. My iPhone will interpret sweat dripping on the screen as a tap. And when it's raining, it's game over, because there's no way you can convince the thing that your finger movements are more important than random rain.

But by all means keep writing us off as Luddites. Because you're convinced you're right, and that's fine, and as I said above, it may work for you. But please don't tell us we're grasping at straws when people that have actually tried it tell you about the things they didn't like.

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Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.

Just try it out for a couple of weeks and decide if you prefer it over a dedicated bike computer already. Be warned to make sure you have unlimited data plan though as running GPS constantly will use it faster than you realize (yes, even Strava app is running GPS for tracking).

Also, my phone is gigantic and not practical for using as a bike computer. Have a Motorola Z Play which is a 5.5" screen but battery life is one of the best out of all phones. Plus I have the Moto attachment for an extra battery pack (but it makes the phone feel as thick as an old school Nokia 6100 series phone with a extended battery. It is not waterproof (a bit water resistant to some sprinkles but you don't get caught in rain unless it is fully encased in a waterproof case/container). Most phones are not waterproof except the flagship ones that are close to $700-1000 price range anyways (both apple and android offerings).

That an trying to see the screen in direct sunlight with polarized sunglasses is like trying to see after turning on the lights when it is pitch dark in the room....not really much you can make out quickly.

Don't be a damn fool man! Who would want a small, simple, compact device which can simply be attached and removed from a convenient place on your bike without the need for a cable or an extra battery pack, that performs the function you require perfectly well? Who the hell needs that?!

Hell, my mobile phone is not anywhere near as powerful as my Core i7 water cooled gaming PC. It is like comparing a chalk board to a super computer! And what kind of bloody simpleton wants to look at a tiny 5.9 inch screen? I'm fixing up a bracket to mount my alienware on my bars with a 62 inch curved OLED. Ok, I might only get 19 seconds out of my 2kg torch battery but it looks so goooooood. Think how many data fields I will be able to display, and with what colour depth and resolution, while I plough my bike into the back of a tractor towing a combine harvester.

Or... a simple device that does what you need.



You don't really mean that, do you?

Another day on the internet...

"Here's my idea. Give me your feedback"
"Here's my feedback"
"No, not that feedback. Give me the feedback I want "

Look, it is a horses-for-courses thing. And the Garmin 1030 you reference is at the very top of the spectrum... a Wahoo Bolt is no where near that kind of money, so that argument is specious.

My iPhone is not waterproof (yes, I am due for an upgrade . . . .)

Don't get me wrong, I love my iPhone. It is pretty much glued to my hand when I am off the bike. But, it is a phone and electronic communication device. It is great at those things and, while I need those things often, I do not need them "on demand" on my handle bars when I am riding, and an iPhone is only so-so as a bike computer so the phone stays in my pocket in a zip lock.

My Garmin 510 is admittedly a much more narrowly tailored device, designed just to gather data from a couple sensors, record and display the data for me and also track my position with GPS. But, that is all I need on the bike and the Garmin is specifically designed to do those things in literally any weather conditions from the dead of winter to the hottest summer day through rain, snow, dirt, dust and sweat drips, its simple controls can be operated easily at 25 mph in pack of riders on a rough road with whatever gloves I may have on my hand and the electronics are inside a bomb proof physical package to boot (when was the last time you heard of someone physically breaking a Garmin?). The Garmin does what it is intended to do very very well, much better than my iPhone can do those things.

A special purpose tool is always better than a general, do all tool if your use case fits the special purpose.

How are any of those points grasping at straws?

Phones aren't designed to be "screen always on" devices - if you've ever tried to use a phone in the middle of summer on a hot day for extended times, you might run into an overheating error message as the device warms up.

In addition, few phones will get 8 hours of SoT (screen on time). Most get 3-5 of SoT, worse as the phone ages. This also doesn't account for the large increased power usage that rural / mountain riding has as it has to increase the power of the receiver as it searches for signal. Finally, you'd have to have a pretty fully charged device to go for a longer ride. I can grab my phone after work at 30% and not worry about it dying on my ride. If I used it as a GPS, no way could I do that.

That's also the nice part about a dedicated bike computer: it's pretty much always charged. I ride 2-3 days/week for 90-120 minutes. I can usually go 2-3 weeks without charging my Garmin Edge. Same thing with my Garmin Forerunner. I can run 60-70 miles/week and charge only weekly.

That being said, I do agree for the technology they're putting in these things that they are extremely overpriced. Numerous smart watches come on the market for the $100-150 range and have significantly more software features than Garmin does. Bike computers (like the "new" Edge 520) probably cost Garmin $15-20 to make at this point. Watches like the Forerunner 235 and 735XT are probably the same base watch running different software, one being $100-150 more than the other. But they're the "Apple" of the Fitness world. Others have tried (Suunto, Polar, TomTom, etc), but no one has come close to dethroning Garmin. Occasional hiccups aside, most of Garmin's products just work. No fooling with crazy menus or 7 data fields per page on a tiny screen.

Sounds like you have mostly made up your mind, largely because you do not value the benefits of an optimized user experience and dedicated device. (The 820 was a total turd, because touch screens are horrible interfaces on exercise devices.) Here are a few things to consider...

• Phone GPS is less accurate than a typical Garmin GPS. For example, on a 56 mile bike, a Garmin might typically read 55.8 - 56.2. However, an iPhone might read 54.9 - 56.1. Some people do not care, others do.
• Garmin/Wahoo is dedicated... just leave it on the bike and it is always there for you.
• No click/swipe nonsense to get to the activity, nor risk of losing focus during a ride and having to get there again.
• No touch screen hassles while sweating on a ride.
• Compatibility with Ant+
• Compact. To some, the size of a 520/820/Bolt is perfect, and the 1030 or iPhone would be ginormous
• No wonky attachments or special case on the phone to mount to the bike

If none of that stuff matters to your use cases, then go for the phone. But, if you value optimized tools, then you may miss that with phone only.

Not sure why you’ve had such a bad experience with bike computers. My edge 520 does everything exactly as I want it to. Never glitchy. Never buggy.

Also I’m not sure many athletes would have the cockpit space for a phone. I know I wouldn’t.

Yes another day on the internet indeed...If you read the thread I’ve accepted many of the points raised and have even said I’ll likely buy a Wahoo Element, but that doesn’t mean I’m still not going to point out points that I don’t think are necessary issues such as battery life which unless you are doing regular 6+ hour rides is not an issue lol, or mounting brackets...seriously...or waterproofing...maybe if your phone fell off Noah’s ark. A lot of the points raised do seem to be frivolous.

But someone has raised an absolute deal breaker that I hadnt thought of and that is overheating. I can see how that would definitely be a problem. And rain activating the screen...though maybe the answer is to just have a crappy touch screen like Garmin that doesn’t work either way even when you use your finger..

As per the post above yours there are hundred of posts on the inter web about the 820 being a POS..

You do raise a good point about cockpit space though. I had trouble reading the 820 due poor eyesight so something the size of the Element would be perfect, I’m not sure if it would fit though with my Xlabs bta setup...

Agreed. When I first picked up my Garmin 520 a few months ago, I was shocked by how laggy the interface is for such a simple device.

I would never want a bike computer so large! And not only would I not want it, it would not even come close to fitting between my aerobars where I want to have it.

I do not want a color screen. All I need to see are numbers. Why would I want a color screen?

I want something I can see in bright light.

I want something that is likely to survive a crash.

I want something that only costs $200 to replace, not $800, if it does break when I crash.

I do not want to drench my "water resistant" $800 phone in the rain.

I don't want the mount to have to be bigger and heavier than it already is to hold the thing firmly when I hit a pothole at 35 mph.

I want something as small as possible while displaying at least 4 metrics per screen in a readable fashion.

I need to turn it on when I leave transition, tracking satellites, and not run out of batteries before I finish an ironman bike leg. That could be 1.5 hours before swim start, 1 hour to swim, 5 hours to bike - so 7.5 hours.

I got one of these a few weeks ago and it is awesome:

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/596828


The garmin 500's, 800's and 1000's are too big and a waste of money imo.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

That actually looks quite good for the price. All I want to see is power speed and distance. I need a big screen because of poor eye sight though... :(

 
Battery is indeed an issue. Here I am at work, about to shove off for the day and my phone after a relatively light usage day is at 62%. So even according to your generous calculations of screen on time, I have 3 maybe 4 hours of battery life left. I'm not terribly interested in going for a 2.5 hour ride after work where I am afraid my phone is going to die. How am I going to call my wife to come get me out in the middle of nowhere when my phone is dead?

iPhones have never claimed to be waterproof, they claim to be "water resistant" but their warranty still does not cover water damage. I am not going to hang my $850 phone under my sweaty face to test Apple's ability to water proof a phone.

How do you plan to hook up your power meter? BT? If so, that is going to cut your battery estimates down.

Lol there are a million videos on YouTube of people testing the iPhone 8 swimming underwater, prolonged periods in fish tanks etc and your worries about some sweat drops?

As for battery life it’s quite simple-there are phone are covers that have a built in battery that gives at least 4 hours, more than enough for your ride.

Anyway it’s all a moot point as the overheating factor is a deal breaker..

Dude. Seriously?

Please re-read what you just wrote, then promptly go hit yourself in the face with an iron skillet.

Where is that Aussie HTFU guy when we need him?

I once had to call a friend to pick me up after I got hit by a car. I was ok aside from a few bumps and bruises but the frame was trashed. I wasn't interested in walking 45k back home in bike shoes while carrying a broken bike.

But yeah, you do you.

Sorta unfair. I'm all about Rule #5 but it is good to have a comms device on ya for the occasional mishap. I've had to pick up the wife before when her riding friend slid out on a corner and was a solid 20 miles from town. Ish happens.

That being said, I don't even have a bike computer. I just go by feel, bruh.