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The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant
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My thoughts on the SwimSmart Initiative and how it has diminished the Ironman:

I was completing the online registration for Ironman Canada 2016 when I was presented with two checkboxes I’d never seen in previous years:

“I understand that I will get the full 2 hours and 20 minutes to complete the 2.4 mile swim regardless of what time I enter the water…”

“I understand that if I finish before the midnight cut-off but have a finishing time or more than 17 hours, I will be considered a DNF…”

Huh?

Upon further investigation, I learned that as of 2016, Ironman Canada, in Whistler, BC, was going to have a “self-seeding rolling swim start.” Athletes will line up on shore then enter the water in a continuous stream, passing over a timing mat to signal their individual start time.

WTF?

This change was part of Ironman’s “SwimSmart initiative,” with the goal of “improving athlete satisfaction and reducing anxiety during the swim portion of the race.” As part of this initiative, floats are also available so swimmers can stop and take a breather if needed.

Seriously?

Before I continue this rant, I should mention my previous Ironman experience. Prior to IMC 2016, I’ve finished three Ironman triathlons, all with mass, in-water swim starts. Ironman Canada 2010 was my first and was relatively stress-free. After the cannon went off, the large crowd was witness to the spectacle of close to 3000 pairs of arms suddenly thrashing in the water. I started at the back of the pack, floated in the shallows for thirty seconds and waiting for the crowd to thin out a bit. I knew I was losing time, but that was my choice.

The swim start at Ironman Cozumel in 2012 was, by comparison, a fiasco. The race organizers miscalculated the start time for the pros, and there wasn’t enough time for all us age-groupers to get from the beach onto the pier then into the water to the start line before the cannon went off. Most of us were still on the pier at 0700, and we jumped off like lemmings, trying not to land on each other, then swimming over/under each other to get clear, just to reach the start line. The ocean currents were so strong that day that some of the buoys marking the course got dragged. At the turn onto the final five-hundred-metre leg, the current was so strong we bunched up just trying to make headway, forcing us to dig deep and pull harder. The DNF rate was higher than average that year, and those of us lucky enough to make the swim cut-off had significantly longer swim times.

In 2013 at Ironman Canada, I was feeling strong that morning and decided to start the swim just behind the top age groupers, and positioning myself in the lake accordingly. What a slugfest that was. Two minutes in, I got clocked in the head so hard by a fellow competitor’s arm or leg that I couldn’t hear out of my right ear for several hours into the bike ride.

Back to Whistler 2016…

The time allotted for the swim warm-up was short, and because it was an on-shore rolling swim start, we had to get out of the lake before the pros started. There we all stood, lined up on the grass for about ten minutes, cooling off, our wetsuits quickly draining. When the cannon went off, the spectators and participants were not witness to the spectacle of several thousand pairs of arms suddenly thrashing in the water, just an orderly procession of wetsuit-clad people calmly walking into the lake. It was… boring.

I know that in triathlons, the swim is the event that raises the anxiety level in most participants and even prevents some would-be participants from entering. I get that. My anecdotes are probably typical examples of why Ironman feels justified in introducing the SwimSmart initiative. But I think the SwimStart is a terrible idea and is more about money than anything else — the less stressful the swim start is advertised to be, the more people will want to pay their money and enter.

Here’s another problem with the SwimStart initiative: not only is the spectacle of a mass swim start gone, but nearly every participant will also have a different start time. The thrill of the midnight countdown is diminished — can that guy struggling to cross the finish line one minute before midnight call himself an Ironman, or is he a DNF because he entered the water at 0658? Those two top age-groupers sprinting to the finish line and fighting for a Kona slot might not even have the same start time, so their battle may already have been decided. With the SwimSmart initiative in place, a participant having a really long day can now cross the finish line just before midnight, get her finisher’s medal and shirt/hat and still be a DNF once the timing results are recorded.

The mystique and challenge of the Ironman race is, in my opinion, being diminished — watered down — by these and other changes. In Cozumel 2012, the swim times were much higher and the DNF rate slightly higher than average. In 2013, due to high winds, they changed the swim course the day before the race from the previously-used 3.8-kilometre box pattern to a 3.1-kilometre swim with the current. Seriously? What’s next?

And here’s another thing that grinds my gears: the line between a full Ironman and a 70.3 has been blurred. Some 70.3 finishers feel justified in celebrating their accomplishment with an M-dot tattoo. That’s not really surprising since, in some 70.3 events, finishers are greeted with “Jane Smith – YOU ARE AN IRONMAN!” Um, no, you’re not. You’re a Half Ironman. And a full Ironman is way more than twice as hard as a 70.3. You don’t get to call yourself a Marathoner if you’ve only run a half marathon, do you? The Facebook page “You know you’re an Ironman when…” has over 16,000 followers; many of its regular posters have only done 70.3 events. Maybe there should be a separate page called “You know you’re a half Ironman when…”?

I’m just an average age-grouper (around 14 hours), and I don’t do Ironman because it is easy. I do it because it is hard. A real challenge. A test. I enter each race knowing there’s a chance I won’t even finish, not only due to insufficient physical and mental conditioning on my part, but to circumstances beyond my control such as weather, injury or a mechanical problem.

I’m glad I was able to get three Ironman races done before the SwimStart initiative was brought in and the race watered down. I doubt I’ll ever do another Ironman unless it has a mass in-water swim start.

I wonder if, years from now, I’ll be one of those old guys with a faded M-dot tat on my calf, grousing, “Yah, but I did Ironman back in the olden days, when there were mass swim starts, 20% DNFs, it was uphill both ways...”

End of rant.

"It's Ironman - it's supposed to be hard!"

Author of "Letters to a Driving Nation: Exploring the Conflict between Drivers and Cyclists." http://www.brucebutler.ca
Last edited by: Cycling nation: Apr 25, 18 18:05
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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I've done mass starts in crowded venues (CdA) and more wide open ones (IMWA / IMNZ), and I've done the new rolling starts. Mostly the only difference is expending some more energy in a crowded mass start. I don't see how the change negatively affects you in any way. If anything, I'm in favor of rolling starts at Whistler because the entry to the water has a lot of sharp rocks and is a good opportunity to get hurt if you're smashed into it.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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Slowtwitchers are batting 1.000 recently.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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Cycling nation wrote:

I wonder if, years from now, I’ll be one of those old guys with a faded M-dot tat on my calf, grousing, “Yah, but I did Ironman back in the olden days, when there were mass swim starts, 20% DNFs, it was uphill both ways...”

You seem to already be there. I preferred the old mass starts but I can see the advantages of the new starts. In the end, it's not something I'm going to lose any sleep over. Life goes on and i'll keep racing.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [spudone] [ In reply to ]
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I concur. I have done 3 with mass starts and 2 with rolling starts and 1 with AG starts (non IM brand). Personally,I much prefer the rolling start. I have participated in IM as a back of the MOP and now closer to a back of the FOP age grouper so I've seen the races from many angles. What I've found is that I don't race against people but rather against the clock so it's still a challenge for me whether or not it's a mass start or a rolling start. I like swimming in cleaner water not fearing for my life. Even now as a 1 hours swimmer which would put me ahead of the scrum, this is my preference.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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There’s at least 20 threads on this in the last 2-3 years.

All your points have been beaten to death already on here.

blog
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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Your my hero!
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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Have you maybe, and I know from your rant this is a long shot, a 400 yard tee shot into a stiff headwind long shot, but has it ever crossed your mind it's not about you?

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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There was no point to this nor any suggestions on how to make the sport better. Good to know you no longer are racing Ironmans.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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So have you put some hard IMs on your schedule, say Wales or Lanzarote, or maybe an Xtreme tri, so you can really test yourself ... and really look down on the easy IMs?
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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I've had a few, maybe 3 or 4 convo's with Jimmy, who I hope comes on and chimes in if I missed any points. And I think if you search the archives you'll find Jimmy and I arguing and he can attest we've had some phone convo's about this as well.

Some reasons as I understand them for going to the rolling start are:

Swim safety - it's easier for lifeguards to get to someone when there is a 10 person thick line of swimmers vs a 40 to 50 person thick herd.
Drafting - it helps reduce pack size in the early miles of the bike & makes any enforcement a bit easier


No for some races like IMAZ it's a bullshit measure, you've got a huge area to start. If you keep that 200m swim to the start you'll whittle out some of the extremely poor swimmers. IIRC we saw 3-4 get pulled out before the first bridge and that happens every year. On the bike if you're in that mediocre swimmer group you're in a huge peloton heading out on the Beeline. No way to really police it. Give and take. No simple solution

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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You can always just do your own self supported full distance triathlon whenever you choose so you’re not inconvenienced by all the other people
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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Because when I think about Ironman being an individual event, my first thought is “let’s start with a group kickboxing match...”.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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I'll answer your rant with one of my own. Why do so many people expect companies to just make products that satisfy them, even though that isn't what the market is moving towards? The entire reason they exist is to make money. Yes, most decisions they make are with the goal of increasing profits. Yes, bike companies are going to try to market their stuff as fastest so people will buy it. Yes, Ironman is going to try and maximize entries, so they make more money, etc. Is this really that hard to understand? Either these companies make money or they disappear, what don't people get about that?

Also, if I were an insurance company, I wouldn't insure a race that had a mass start except maybe Kona. So much safer to do a rolling start.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Bruce - Kevin from Mission here. I see that you also did IMC in 2010 in Pentic. as well as IM Whister in 2016. I agree that the swims were fairly different experiences.

As you mentioned, in 2010 you paid your dues as a slower newbie and hung out in the back until it was safe to proceed... a wise decision. Then you tried swimming with the big boys in 2013 and got your head knocked around, which was, I guess a learning experience. Then you did 2016 and had a "orderly" experience. As "EPIC" as those mass starts were back in the day, I'm not so sure they were better.

Although waiting around on shore for a long time after a good warm up does suck, I guess if we wanna experience the big start / old school style we need to up our game, win the lottery, learn how to swim w/out wetsuits (if that is possible) and qualify for Hawaii =-)

BTW: Whonnock Lake is open for business! Just pass that on to buttman!!

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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2/10
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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True, it looks more "epic" on picture with 2000 people rushing into the water, but that is about the only upside. The warmup is equal to everyone, time wise.

What we gain is: Alot more swim safety not being kicked all over the place, and since swimming is the portion where most people die, it makes good sense to me. The field gets alot more spread out on the bike, due to the rolling starts. As you self seed you will be swimming the equal speeded swimmers and wont have to fight your way around too many people.

Finally, we love triathlon, we want it to gain more followers. What scares people? THe swim, and a hectic swim start, so it makes good sense to ease the entry for all of those people that make it possible to even have a race in the first place!
You still complete a full distance.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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Quite an enjoyable little thread this.

The OP provides a self absorbed rant on a thoroughly covered topic for ST - Boring!
But all of the responses are relevant, considered and spot on. Restores my faith in STers.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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Are you able to say in a sentence what the issue is?
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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I can see both sides, so it would seem logical to have both options.

How about keeping mass starts for the regional championships plus the odd 'known difficult' race like Lanza/Wales/Nice. That way plenty of entry points for newbies, but the Championship races are a step up in difficulty but also have the 'true race' aspect and epic mass start spectacle befitting their status as well.

Safety could be addressed by having a requirement to have completed an IM with say sub 1:45 swim(?) in order to enter.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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Thom wrote:
Cycling nation wrote:
I wonder if, years from now, I’ll be one of those old guys with a faded M-dot tat on my calf, grousing, “Yah, but I did Ironman back in the olden days, when there were mass swim starts, 20% DNFs, it was uphill both ways...”
You seem to already be there.
Hahaha, brilliant!
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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I totally agree! I'll also add that I hate it when people who complete a 140.6 distance race that isn't mdot branded call themselves an Ironman!

I mean, it totally waters down the value of our tattoos.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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Just a note.

IRONMAN is a brand. Not a distance.

For the record, I’ve done 10 Ironmans and about 43 half Ironmans. I hate the name Ironman 70.3.

Rhymenocerus wrote:
I think everyone should consult ST before they do anything.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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I got bored, didn't finish it.

All I know is that I've completed 2 IM70.3 events, so that means I can get an m-dot tattoo now.

I think I'm gonna do it like the old WWII pilots, a tattoo for each one. Can't decide if I should have them go in a row around my biceps, on my pecs, or somewhere else ;-)

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
I got bored, didn't finish it.

All I know is that I've completed 2 IM70.3 events, so that means I can get an m-dot tattoo now.

I think I'm gonna do it like the old WWII pilots, a tattoo for each one. Can't decide if I should have them go in a row around my biceps, on my pecs, or somewhere else ;-)

We gonna go for our military tats after the Navy sprint??
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
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Hell yeah!

It's a Navy race, so we need anchor tats.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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I remember watching this a few times before my first and only IM (IMC, 2013) and it made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up every time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kal0eU2cf8I

I did the deepwater start in 2013 at IMC with everyone pretty well strung out. You must have worked hard to get hit as hard as you did. Wasn't as bad as some other events I've done with AG pens starting in single batches. I remember the rolling start at Whistler in 2016 (doing the half) and it really wasn't the end of the world.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
I got bored, didn't finish it.

All I know is that I've completed 2 IM70.3 events, so that means I can get an m-dot tattoo now.

I think I'm gonna do it like the old WWII pilots, a tattoo for each one. Can't decide if I should have them go in a row around my biceps, on my pecs, or somewhere else ;-)

I was out riding and saw a guy like that! He had done 2 or 3 fulls and it looked like about 4 halfs (he had half m-dots for those). He even had different styles for different races but I did not get a good enough look to figure out which ones.

No joke.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
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Dang! That was my advantage haha the pure lack of anxiety and borderline excitement of mass swim starts. Being a surfer and losing my board and swimming hundreds of yards through current and 10+ foot hurricane waves really makes you NOT fear people.

Everyone I talk to gets so nervous about the swim so that is where I got to save energy and take a bit of an advantage so as to not get quite as destroyed on the run haha

This is like when they banned rubbing in NASCAR :-(
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [LuchaLibre] [ In reply to ]
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how dare they improve something, in my day we drowned and liked it.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [PJC] [ In reply to ]
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PJC wrote:
Just a note.

IRONMAN is a brand. Not a distance.

For the record, I’ve done 10 Ironmans and about 43 half Ironmans. I hate the name Ironman 70.3.
Was supposed to be in pink?

"Ironman" is a brand not a distance. I can agreed with that.

Then you claim to have done 43 half Ironmans. There's no such thing as a half Ironman. What's half a brand?
If you mean the Ironman middle distance product, that's called an Ironman 70.3. The fact that you hate the name of the product is irrelevant.
Presumably you've done 53 Ironman events 10 of which were long distance triathlons and 43 middle distance? Ironman after all is a brand. Not a distance.

If you're going to start a post by defining a word, don't write the rest of the post using a different definition!
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I was completing the online registration for Ironman Canada 2016

You've been holding this in for almost 2 years and that's the best you could come up with?
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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Huh?? For perspective, I have 27 IM finishes so far - 190 total triathlons (vast majority have waves). Quite honestly, I see the new IM swim starts (not really new - there were waves at my 1st Roth in '89) as mostly a non-factor. The greatest positive is breaking up, a little, some of the bike packs. I don't really get the big deal and I'm trying to figure out what your rant really is.

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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Yep...
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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-1

1/10:)
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
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I guess next the OP is going to blast time trial events for doing 30 sec or 1 min rolling starts so that he doesn't get to draft.

Lol. Wow.

What is wrong with the concept of a rolling start? That's how time trial works. Just because you don't start at the exact same time doesn't mean it isn't the same race.

FWIW, since there isn't drafting in an IM, an IM is essentially a multisport long distance time trial. To limit time on course, you do big starts. Imagine sending off that many people 30sec between people. You'd never finish.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you. He lost my attention after about one sentence. I presumed to know the rest from the headline but wouldn’t bother to read it all.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe you should stick to cycling, as your user name implies. That, or professional complainer. You're skills are certainly up to snuff in that department.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
Have you maybe, and I know from your rant this is a long shot, a 400 yard tee shot into a stiff headwind long shot, but has it ever crossed your mind it's not about you?

This ^^^^^^

Colorado Triathlon Company, CO2UT 2021, Crooked Gravel 2022, Steamboat Gravel 2022
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [boilerup] [ In reply to ]
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boilerup wrote:
desert dude wrote:
Have you maybe, and I know from your rant this is a long shot, a 400 yard tee shot into a stiff headwind long shot, but has it ever crossed your mind it's not about you?


Wait, you cant hit a 400 yard tee shot into a headwind?

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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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All I know is that I've completed 2 IM70.3 events, so that means I can get an m-dot tattoo now.
---

Make it a puzzle. Get half a tattoo on one forearm and the other half on the other forearm. Design them in a way that you can put your arms together- Boom Ironman






Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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could agree with a bit there, yep, was ones of those who cheered the time IMOZ announced at the day before race brief that the water was too hot for wetsuits and it would be harder for the guppies but think there has been two races now where blokes didn't get out of the water...sort of changes the way you look at staggered swims....whatever gets us all out of the water for me now.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Tri-Banter] [ In reply to ]
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Tri-Banter wrote:
All I know is that I've completed 2 IM70.3 events, so that means I can get an m-dot tattoo now.
---

Make it a puzzle. Get half a tattoo on one forearm and the other half on the other forearm. Design them in a way that you can put your arms together- Boom Ironman

Brilliant!

Could do that with other body parts too. I'm lookin' at you, ladies ;-)

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [AussieIron] [ In reply to ]
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Hey if a couple dudes have to die so OP can feel like a real man, small price to pay
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
So have you put some hard IMs on your schedule, say Wales or Lanzarote, or maybe an Xtreme tri, so you can really test yourself ... and really look down on the easy IMs?

Wales is a rolling start, so it's obviously not a hard race.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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Don't know why youre so surprised, its the way the world is going. Theres a feeling of entitlement, people think that just because they want something they should be able to achieve it. Trying to make it as easy as possible along the way and race directors giving in.

You finished an IM after the cutoff in over 17 hours? Doesn't matter, your triathlon friends will tell you that it still counts and you should still get an mdot tattoo because you covered the distance.
Course is too hard? RDs will change it and make it easier.
Scared of open water swimming? No worries, race will be wetsuit legal, a non mass start, downhill swim, and at the slightest amount of chop will cancel the swim altogether.
The ultra race is too difficult and not many people can finish it? The cutoffs will be expanded so more people can participate and finish because I guess that its elitist that only people who train and kill themselves during the race should finish.

I would say that this is an issue with kids nowadays but see all sorts of adults in triathlon with the same mentality. Its like everybody who was picked last in sports as a child, grew up and started doing triathlons feeling they deserve to "finish" regardless of how its done.

If triathlon is to keep growing then RDs will have to start figuring out how to make races more inclusive to attract even more people. Which means that this will only get worse. Just accept it.

2x Deca-Ironman World Cup (10 Ironmans in 10 days), 2x Quintuple Ironman World Cup (5 Ironmans in 5 days), Ultraman, Ultra Marathoner, and I once did an Ironman.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [TRO Saracen] [ In reply to ]
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TRO Saracen wrote:

I can see both sides, so it would seem logical to have both options.

How about keeping mass starts for the regional championships plus the odd 'known difficult' race like Lanza/Wales/Nice. That way plenty of entry points for newbies, but the Championship races are a step up in difficulty but also have the 'true race' aspect and epic mass start spectacle befitting their status as well.

Safety could be addressed by having a requirement to have completed an IM with say sub 1:45 swim(?) in order to enter.

What do you think about having KQ spots be gun time with a mass start, and the rest of the field (those that are not trying to KQ) do a rolling start with chip time? You would keep the exciting finishes/chasing down a competitor, but not have to worry about the BOP swimmers getting beat up and dying.

Oui, mais pas de femme toute de suite (yes, but I am not ready for a woman straight away) -Stephen Roche's reply when asked whether he was okay after collapsing at the finish in the La Plagne stage of the 1987 Tour
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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I have done 6 IMs and have experienced both mass and rolling starts. I'm a MOP triathlete but a FOP swimmer (approx 1 hour).

For me personally, I'm glad they changed it. Even as a FOP swimmer, I HATED the mass start. I did one at IM Texas in 2013 and got clobbered the entire first 1/2 mile by all the men surrounding me (I'm female). At a race with a wave start, I can usually pull away from the group within the first minute or two. But with the mass start, the draft was so strong that it was very difficult for me to try and pull away from it. I was totally trapped- getting punched in the face by cruddy swimmers and completely unable to find my rhythm and hold my breathing pattern. I also feel that it physically gave an advantage to weaker swimmers because they were able to ride that draft at least 1/4 of the way through the course.

Changing to a rolling start allows everyone to swim their own race while making it safer for everyone. I understand your argument re: losing the "IM experience". But for me, that experience really sucked. I can't imagine how much worse it must have been for somebody not as comfortable in the water.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [T-wrecks] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe you should stick to cycling, as your user name implies. That, or professional complainer. You're skills are certainly up to snuff in that department.


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T-WREX, how could ya?

Proofread that last sentence or I'll give you LOT'S of grief.

& don't blame auto-correct!

You are welcome.

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Hydrosloth] [ In reply to ]
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Starting a sentence with an ampersand?

tsk tsk...

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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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I very much enjoyed your post and miss the mass start at IMFL. No one can deny that there was something special about that mass start. See for yourself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwYwUPVPLnM
People like to knock IMFL, but what domestic Ironman can match that swim?
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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WelshinPhilly wrote:
HuffNPuff wrote:
So have you put some hard IMs on your schedule, say Wales or Lanzarote, or maybe an Xtreme tri, so you can really test yourself ... and really look down on the easy IMs?


Wales is a rolling start, so it's obviously not a hard race.

Wales and Lanzarote are both on my bucket list. There is so much more to a hard race than the manner of the swim start ... that's about as trivial as you can get.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
WelshinPhilly wrote:
HuffNPuff wrote:
So have you put some hard IMs on your schedule, say Wales or Lanzarote, or maybe an Xtreme tri, so you can really test yourself ... and really look down on the easy IMs?


Wales is a rolling start, so it's obviously not a hard race.

Wales and Lanzarote are both on my bucket list. There is so much more to a hard race than the manner of the swim start ... that's about as trivial as you can get.

Not sure if I should have put that in pink.. did Wales in 2016 and loved it, despite the lumpiness of the course:)
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [IMStillTrying] [ In reply to ]
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Mass starts actually produce faster swim times for the average AGer in confined narrow swim venues lakes/harbors. There is a continuous draft stretching for miles - lots of extra pull for an average swimmer like yours truly.

While I do find it sad that harder courses like St George, Los Cabos, Lake Tahoe could not get enough entries to sustain themselves as full course, I get it that WTC is a commercial enterprise... and they are striving to deliver the best rounded mass market product they can... all good.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [imsparticus] [ In reply to ]
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imsparticus wrote:
I very much enjoyed your post and miss the mass start at IMFL. No one can deny that there was something special about that mass start. See for yourself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwYwUPVPLnM
People like to knock IMFL, but what domestic Ironman can match that swim?

I was in that race! Awesome conditions all day long! Can you pick me out of the group before the start? I was wearing a black wetsuit and green swim cap.

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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I knew exactly what you meant. I've watched every year's edition on youtube (Ironman Europe TV). Plus, I've been all over the UK, but not to Wales.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [imsparticus] [ In reply to ]
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imsparticus wrote:
I very much enjoyed your post and miss the mass start at IMFL. No one can deny that there was something special about that mass start. See for yourself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwYwUPVPLnM
People like to knock IMFL, but what domestic Ironman can match that swim?

Looks similar to when I did IMFL in 2008. I also did IMFL in 2014. For the latter, I would say that just about any domestic Ironman could top Florida's 2014 non-swim.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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LOL ranting that 70.3 finishers are celebrating my getting an M-dot tattoo I think sums up your rant. Who wants an M-dot tattoo anyway and who cares if they do??? What if they have done two 70.3s??? Are they inferior to your elite M-dot club???
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
LOL ranting that 70.3 finishers are celebrating my getting an M-dot tattoo I think sums up your rant. Who wants an M-dot tattoo anyway and who cares if they do??? What if they have done two 70.3s??? Are they inferior to your elite M-dot club???


I don’t have a tattoo and don’t want one. 3X Ironman and in many ways, I don’t even care to talk about it much.

I think it helps that my penis is above average statistically and it’s fabulous. I don’t need the extra emphasis on other things.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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We have got a situation in Western Australia with 5 triathlon swim cancellations in one year, 3 because of sharks, 2 because of bad weather. The bad weather, was a ridiculous call, it was slightly choppy, there was a surf-lifesaving comp just round the corner with 9 year olds swimming... the shark sightings is a bit more contentious I guess. My thoughts are they should:

- ascertain size and type of shark
- ascertain directions it's travelling, very few hang around and are just passing through
- chase it out to sea
- tranqulise it
- change the swim course
- wait it out

But on the 3 occasions the swim was simply cancelled, the sharks weren't particularity large or that close. I felt the RDs panicked. Contrast that to the Rottnest channel swim, a 20km OWS from land to Rottnest island. A 4m Great White swam under a competitor, the RD pulled out only the people in the close vicinity and allowed everyone else to finish.

It's that kind of shit that pisses me off, playing to the lowest common denominator, especially with the weather cancellations. If you're going to struggle because of a little bit of chop then you shouldn't really be there. I have no problem with crappy swimmers wanting to do triathlon, but I do when it results in swim cancellations. I do 10 triathlons this season, 5 of which ended up being duathlons.... I hate duathlons.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Hopefully, that year will be the exception. But I would freak if a great white swam under me!
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
Hopefully, that year will be the exception. But I would freak if a great white swam under me!

Yeah that guy actually finished the race, I'd be out that fucking water so fast! I'm OK with sharks, but not 4m Great Whites! I'll see if I can track down the photo of it's dorsal fin, it's huge.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Last edited by: zedzded: Apr 26, 18 19:36
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Every time you are in the ocean you are sharing it with sharks. Ironman Cairns swim is in an area frequented by large sharks and crocodiles. Of course, you won't see them because the water is brown, and the swim won't be cancelled due to their presence. Out of sight out of mind.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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IM is essentially an ITT from start to finish. Why begin with a kicking and punching match? Which BTW still happens even with a rolling start. Why make it worse?
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Cycling nation] [ In reply to ]
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The swim start is, after the finish, my favorite and most exiting part. But, I am a strong swimmer, sub 1hr in IM and used to do sub 1 min in 100 m freestyle. If the changes in the swim start makes it safer and more attractive to others, so be it. After all, triathlons, no matter the distance, is just a hobby for those who are not pros.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [chuy] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, the world's going to hell. Apparently. It must be awful for you.

Another self absorbed fellow who shares that weird obsession with IM tattoos it seems.....

If you think the "right" to get a tattoo is a significant reason to do IM then I think your perspective is rather warped to begin with. I do IM for me. Relatively few people I know would even be aware of that and fewer care.
I don't care what arbitrary time cut-off has been chosen to determine the last person to be awarded an imaginary title by the organisers. I'm not terribly fast myself but I'm nowhere near missing any of the cutoffs. However, I have plenty respect for anyone who guts out a 15, 16, 17 or 18 hour IM.

Let me point out a huge logical inconsistency in your way of thinking if I may:

IM is composed of completely arbitrary distances. They were chosen by RDs. IM and triathlon itself is a very young sport and there's no fundamental reason that the distances, times or anything else should be set in stone. There is no objective right and wrong. Why then do you have a problem with these races being refined over time to make them safer and more approachable so long as the opportunity is still afforded to you to thoroughly challenge yourself on a long distance triathlon?

You ridicule the changing of courses to make them easier, or someone thinking they're an ironman if they took more than 17hrs. Do you really not understand that this is all just made up? There is no objective absolute truth in the 2.4/112/26.2 distances in under 17hrs from a mass start. If you didn't get that and decided to brand yourself with a company logo because you thought it meant something fundamental and held a protected status, it's no-one else's fault.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Well first of all I don't have an MDOT Tattoo and would never get one, so wrong assumption there. And the thoughts you have expressed are precisely what I was referring to in my post. Maybe some things need to be earned and not given, or bastardized to the point that anyone can "achieve" them. Based on what you said lets just give people participation medals when they show up. Anyways, its a moot point because as triathlon participation starts to decline and races start to lose money then RDs will need to find ways to increase participation numbers in any way possible. We have only begun to see how much IM will be "watered down" as the OP wrote.

2x Deca-Ironman World Cup (10 Ironmans in 10 days), 2x Quintuple Ironman World Cup (5 Ironmans in 5 days), Ultraman, Ultra Marathoner, and I once did an Ironman.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [chuy] [ In reply to ]
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chuy wrote:
Well first of all I don't have an MDOT Tattoo and would never get one, so wrong assumption there. And the thoughts you have expressed are precisely what I was referring to in my post. Maybe some things need to be earned and not given, or bastardized to the point that anyone can "achieve" them. Based on what you said lets just give people participation medals when they show up. Anyways, its a moot point because as triathlon participation starts to decline and races start to lose money then RDs will need to find ways to increase participation numbers in any way possible. We have only begun to see how much IM will be "watered down" as the OP wrote.

Curious: why would you never get an MDOT Tattoo, but present a sig line like yours? It's just a matter of scale, isn't it?
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [davetallo] [ In reply to ]
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davetallo wrote:
chuy wrote:
Well first of all I don't have an MDOT Tattoo and would never get one, so wrong assumption there. And the thoughts you have expressed are precisely what I was referring to in my post. Maybe some things need to be earned and not given, or bastardized to the point that anyone can "achieve" them. Based on what you said lets just give people participation medals when they show up. Anyways, its a moot point because as triathlon participation starts to decline and races start to lose money then RDs will need to find ways to increase participation numbers in any way possible. We have only begun to see how much IM will be "watered down" as the OP wrote.


Curious: why would you never get an MDOT Tattoo, but present a sig line like yours? It's just a matter of scale, isn't it?

Because IM is so watered down now. duh....

Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [chuy] [ In reply to ]
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Nope, you're still not making sense.
What's being given? What should be earned?

Why do you feel so threatened by what other people do?

How does it effect you that someone else takes 17hrs+ and is proud of themselves?
It seems quite clear to me that your entire point is driven by your ego and you don't even see how irrelevant it is to those who race because they enjoy it and get satisfaction from their own efforts, not as a deluded ego boost derived from dominating others.

Why would anyone want a participation medal for turning up? And how did you see that as a logical conclusion to anything I said? A fair part of my point is that for most it's not about the medal at all. I personally couldn't care less if there's medals provided. Actually that's not true, I'd prefer if there weren't - unnecessary cost and waste.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Ai_1 wrote:
IM is composed of completely arbitrary distances. They were chosen by RDs. IM and triathlon itself is a very young sport and there's no fundamental reason that the distances, times or anything else should be set in stone. There is no objective right and wrong. Why then do you have a problem with these races being refined over time to make them safer and more approachable so long as the opportunity is still afforded to you to thoroughly challenge yourself on a long distance triathlon?

Who knew?! And all this time, I naively believed that the distances were neither set by a RD nor were they arbitrary. I mistakenly understood the challenge to have been established by the original competitors themselves based on existing events; namely the Oahu Roughwater swim, the around Oahu bike race, and the Honolulu Marathon. But one thing I do know is that after 40 years those distances ARE set in stone. It's not an accident that even independent race producers seeking to put on a "full distance" triathlon use the Ironman distances. It's not an accident that even the Xtreme triathlons like Norseman, Celtman, Swissman, etc., use that same distance. And it's also a fact that Ironman owns the distance as a world championship. ITU sued twice over the issue and lost twice. Those distances are not just set in stone, they are carved deep into granite.

Other than that, I get the crux of your argument.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [chuy] [ In reply to ]
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chuy wrote:
Based on what you said lets just give people participation medals when they show up.

I don't agree with all the things folks are saying about being tough on participants, but you do have to keep it to a level that a normally fit person can't do it without solid training.

From a cyclist point of view, the cutoff time for the bike is pretty ridiculously generous.

I live in Raleigh, and if you can't bike that route over 15mph avg........jeesh. That would still leave you 3 1/2 hours to do the run.

Pretty sure the time cutoff to Marion for AOMM is tougher than an IM bike leg time cutoff to achieve. I'd have to check, but it isn't peanuts.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:




OH F*CK THAT!

I did a swim in my hometown in a deep dead end channel where I know there are HUGE alligators and the water is like coffee...I think I PRed that swim. They paddle boarded people around making sure there were no gators, but lets be real haha
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
There is so much more to a hard race than the manner of the swim start ... that's about as trivial as you can get.

I can't believe the guy is complaining about rolling swim starts watering things down when I'd say the over-reliance on wetsuits does much worse.

The current upper temperatures that allow wetsuits are entirely too warm for them to be needed for any reason other than 'free speed'. Not to mention that whenever the temperature is on the fence, multiple readings are taken so that a lower, wetsuit legal temperature can be obtained.

As a strong swimmer, I'd say that's probably my biggest gripe with the swim leg of triathlons (since it's already the shortest w/o wetsuit).
However, as a triathlete, I couldn't care less if someone gets a free minute or two for using a wetsuit. Doesn't affect me one way or the other...unless they take my Kona slot
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:


Yeah F**K that.

Nope. Nope. Nope. Nooooope.


Yeah, I know they are there. I know I've had them around me when I've been free diving, but there's just common sense. Open Water swimming when there's one that big right in front of you is just psycho
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [LuchaLibre] [ In reply to ]
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quote LuchaLibre]
zedzded wrote:



OH F*CK THAT!

I did a swim in my hometown in a deep dead end channel where I know there are HUGE alligators and the water is like coffee...I think I PRed that swim. They paddle boarded people around making sure there were no gators, but lets be real haha[/quote]
Amen, amen!!
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:
IM is composed of completely arbitrary distances. They were chosen by RDs. IM and triathlon itself is a very young sport and there's no fundamental reason that the distances, times or anything else should be set in stone. There is no objective right and wrong. Why then do you have a problem with these races being refined over time to make them safer and more approachable so long as the opportunity is still afforded to you to thoroughly challenge yourself on a long distance triathlon?

Who knew?! And all this time, I naively believed that the distances were neither set by a RD nor were they arbitrary. I mistakenly understood the challenge to have been established by the original competitors themselves based on existing events; namely the Oahu Roughwater swim, the around Oahu bike race, and the Honolulu Marathon. But one thing I do know is that after 40 years those distances ARE set in stone. It's not an accident that even independent race producers seeking to put on a "full distance" triathlon use the Ironman distances. It's not an accident that even the Xtreme triathlons like Norseman, Celtman, Swissman, etc., use that same distance. And it's also a fact that Ironman owns the distance as a world championship. ITU sued twice over the issue and lost twice. Those distances are not just set in stone, they are carved deep into granite.

Other than that, I get the crux of your argument.
I'm fully aware of all of that and was when I wrote the quoted post. I would consider the original competitors to have been the RDs of their event. Yes, they based the distances on existing events in each discipline that happened to be available for reference at that locale. I'd consider that arbitrary.

They have a history but it's not that long. Given that course distances aren't certified and records are therefore dubious, I think there's lots of scope for tweaking. I don't think that's a bad thing.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
davetallo wrote:
chuy wrote:
Well first of all I don't have an MDOT Tattoo and would never get one, so wrong assumption there. And the thoughts you have expressed are precisely what I was referring to in my post. Maybe some things need to be earned and not given, or bastardized to the point that anyone can "achieve" them. Based on what you said lets just give people participation medals when they show up. Anyways, its a moot point because as triathlon participation starts to decline and races start to lose money then RDs will need to find ways to increase participation numbers in any way possible. We have only begun to see how much IM will be "watered down" as the OP wrote.


Curious: why would you never get an MDOT Tattoo, but present a sig line like yours? It's just a matter of scale, isn't it?


Because IM is so watered down now. duh....


Few things
-I did my first IM at AZ in 2008, I think I've been hearing that IM is watered down since then when they moved from April to Nov to get better weather and less wind. And I'm sure it was bemoaned back then. There's this weird "back in my day" thing that people like to get all hopped up about, like things were so much harder then (and thus, they are better or harder triathletes, to which I say whatevs)

-Interestingly the OP has dropped his rant in a few different places, including the FB IM Canada page. He has not piped back in to defend it or address any issues raised in any forum I've seen. Seems a bit of a troll to me

-Speaking of Canada, they released the new bike course this year which has the most elevation of any in the Americas, by far. So much for watering down courses.

-With the caveat that I totally respect any IM finisher no matter the time, and am not belittling those that finish at any time, but reading a 14 hour finisher saying it diminishes his head to head experience, and that he'll never do another IM unless it's mass start, is all a little silly, no? I mean he's fighting "head to head" for 127th place vs. 128th place. That means that much to him?
Last edited by: ChrisM: Apr 27, 18 10:55
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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The marathon distance wasn't settled until the 1908 Olympics ... the very first time that 26.2 miles was contested. It was supposed to be an even 26 miles but was extended 385 yards to finish in front of the Royal Box. How arbitrary is that? But it's irrelevant, because just 13 years later it was settled as the accepted, official distance. Due to differences in terrain, transition lengths, and so on, IMs are unlikely to ever be certified (e.g., IM Texas bike at 110 miles), but that doesn't change the fact that target distances are settled, and 40 years later they aren't moving. And you don't have world records under those constraints, you have worlds "bests". You may beg to differ but the rest of the triathlon world understands that an IM is 2.4 - 112 - 26.2. You can set up your own 2 mile - 100 mile - 23 mi course for an even 125 miles (or similar) since you think it is acceptable to tweak the distances, but I would bet big money that it would be a commercial flop.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
The marathon distance wasn't settled until the 1908 Olympics ... the very first time that 26.2 miles was contested. It was supposed to be an even 26 miles but was extended 385 yards to finish in front of the Royal Box. How arbitrary is that? But it's irrelevant, because just 13 years later it was settled as the accepted, official distance. Due to differences in terrain, transition lengths, and so on, IMs are unlikely to ever be certified (e.g., IM Texas bike at 110 miles), but that doesn't change the fact that target distances are settled, and 40 years later they aren't moving. And you don't have world records under those constraints, you have worlds "bests". You may beg to differ but the rest of the triathlon world understands that an IM is 2.4 - 112 - 26.2. You can set up your own 2 mile - 100 mile - 23 mi course for an even 125 miles (or similar) since you think it is acceptable to tweak the distances, but I would bet big money that it would be a commercial flop.
I thought the point of all this was the OPs assertion that RDs were tweaking races already in order to make them commercial successes!
There's still plenty "non-standard" races about, in Europe anyway. I'm less familiar with the US scene. They're not better or worse. They're just different. The Alpe D'Huez triathlon isn't a commercial flop is it?
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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Everything is relative. Yes, a full IM is much tougher than a 70.3. But a 70.3 is no cake walk even to most experienced triathletes. It's still considered long course. I think one of the guys who ran the barkley said IM Kona was like a "fun run" to him. So if you think IM is being watered down, go run barkley, badwater or western states and call us in the morning :)

"The first virtue in a soldier is endurance of fatigue; courage is only the second virtue."
- Napoleon Bonaparte
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Don_W] [ In reply to ]
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Don_W wrote:
Everything is relative. Yes, a full IM is much tougher than a 70.3. But a 70.3 is no cake walk even to most experienced triathletes. It's still considered long course. I think one of the guys who ran the barkley said IM Kona was like a "fun run" to him. So if you think IM is being watered down, go run barkley, badwater or western states and call us in the morning :)


Not sure if you're just responding to the last post, as I think the OP is full of shit in the "watered down" comment (well, he's FOS in the entire post IMO).
Last edited by: ChrisM: Apr 27, 18 11:18
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Ai_1 wrote:
HuffNPuff wrote:
The marathon distance wasn't settled until the 1908 Olympics ... the very first time that 26.2 miles was contested. It was supposed to be an even 26 miles but was extended 385 yards to finish in front of the Royal Box. How arbitrary is that? But it's irrelevant, because just 13 years later it was settled as the accepted, official distance. Due to differences in terrain, transition lengths, and so on, IMs are unlikely to ever be certified (e.g., IM Texas bike at 110 miles), but that doesn't change the fact that target distances are settled, and 40 years later they aren't moving. And you don't have world records under those constraints, you have worlds "bests". You may beg to differ but the rest of the triathlon world understands that an IM is 2.4 - 112 - 26.2. You can set up your own 2 mile - 100 mile - 23 mi course for an even 125 miles (or similar) since you think it is acceptable to tweak the distances, but I would bet big money that it would be a commercial flop.

I thought the point of all this was the OPs assertion that RDs were tweaking races already in order to make them commercial successes!
There's still plenty "non-standard" races about, in Europe anyway. I'm less familiar with the US scene. They're not better or worse. They're just different. The Alpe D'Huez triathlon isn't a commercial flop is it?

The star attraction at Alpe DHuez is the bike climb. Apart from the bike challenge it isn't even remotely comparable to a long distance race since it is only 2.2 km - 115 km - 22 km ... more akin to a 70.3 than an Ironman. I think your analogy is apples and oranges. Suppose you tried to establish a race with those same distances, but with a flat to rolling, run of the mill bike course. Do you think it would sell? Meanwhile, everywhere I look in Europe I see Ironman and Challenge using 140.6 and 70.3 as their standard courses...and a shit ton of independents doing the same thing ... notwithstanding that Europe has some iconic races at varying distances and is more open to non-standard events. I lived in England for a couple of years and it was refreshing to run a bunch of road races at odd distances. With few exceptions those have pretty much died out in the US.
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
quote LuchaLibre]
zedzded wrote:




OH F*CK THAT!

I did a swim in my hometown in a deep dead end channel where I know there are HUGE alligators and the water is like coffee...I think I PRed that swim. They paddle boarded people around making sure there were no gators, but lets be real haha


Amen, amen!![/quote]

If/when you get to Wales, you'll probably encounter the local.... jellyfish. I grew up an hour east of Tenby and surfed/lifesaved in the sea there and was used to jellyfish of a size that you could easily scoop up and chuck at your mates, with occasional bigger ones washed up on the beach after storms. On a shakeout swim a couple of nights before the race I felt something bump my leg out near the first turn buoy and assumed it was just a fish.. and then felt another bump a few yards later. Someone at the beach showers was asking if anyone else had seen the jellyfish out there...






Harmless enough but seeing them coming up at you from deeper water on race morning does give you a little extra boost :)
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Re: The Watering Down of Ironman - A Rant [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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Those are yuuuuuge!! But if they don't sting and with lots of people plowing the way in front of me one could hope that they would clear a path. :)
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