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Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away...
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Not ideal, of course. Just making due with what I've got. Let's see where I can get with this.


Informal local fun TT thing next week depending on weather. I decided to take the time to setup the bike for this and give this TT thing an attempt for a little bit. See what my favorite race type is this year or something.


This took a lot longer than I thought. I thought I'd clip on, raise the seat and move it forward and be done for now. Nope. It proved difficult getting all the bar fasteners, arm pads, and all the stars in the universe aligned to get something just "workable" for a road bike clip-on setup.


The goal was getting the arms in, the shoulders in, and the head down. Not sure why the tip of the helmet sticks up some, but seems consistent with photos of the pros using that Advantage 2 helmet from like 8 years ago. It's still a very competitive helmet in the TT scene, and it's cheap.


I'm happy with the first effort. I'm sure ST will have a lot to say about it though!


Picture 1: you have to do this with a level bike. Put it in the trainer and pick the proper climbing stop. Otherwise your work is wasted once you put it on the pavement and it's wrong.





Picture 2: cables at the cockpit before picture. I had already cleaned this up from the LBS that assembled the bike. But, the cables were still hanging below the bars and in the wind in places.



Picture 3: best I could do for now. I pulled them behind the bar and the Wahoo Bolt the best I could. I tested the shifting and braking and turning the bike to make sure it would turn and work fine still.





Picture 4: Skewer, max aero. :laugh: FWIW, after that RR, I would NEVER run a skewer like that riding in a group. NEVER.



Picture 5: Front view. Not bad for a road bike and first attempt. Not great, but not horrible I guess.



Picture 6: Side view. Not best angle, but my helper was much appreciated so I didn't complain. Back not completely flat, but not necessary as long as your head itself doesn't poke up too much.





Picture 7: Side view 2. I took off the really thick arm rest pads. Those were easily 1/2" to 1" of stack height. I may just buy some black felt to cover the bumpy velco texture on the plastic. I only have to deal with it for 20ish min at a time. I'll put the pads on for much longer training rides. Can't really tell in the picture though.



Picture 8: interesting story on the seat. I assumed this bike did not have a flip flop seat post like a Cervelo aero bike. It doesn't. But the seat post clamp is reversible. There are two pivot mounts. So you can reverse or flip where the clamp faces. Facing rearward would be a road seat setup, facing forward you can get the seat much further forward. Still not a TT bike position, but it definitely helped a lot. I took before/after numbers and wrote them down for both road/TT setup.



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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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So cramped. I wish people would stop shoving their saddles forward.
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Grill wrote:
So cramped. I wish people would stop shoving their saddles forward.

I'm watching this thread with interest. I'm setting my Cervelo S1 up the same way right now.

Are there any aero rules of thumb to follow when setting up a road bike?
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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I agree.

That said, this looks better than a lot of folks on tt rigs fit.

op - try going back a little at a time. You should be able to tell if you've gone too far pretty quick.

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
Last edited by: Morelock: Mar 8, 18 6:34
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Grill wrote:
So cramped. I wish people would stop shoving their saddles forward.

I'm new to this, what's the suggestion and rationale?

I assume the suggestion is to move the saddle back (and if back, it has to go down too so you can reach the pedals). I moved it forward because where it was, I couldn't reach the cockpit whatsoever while still being able to raise the seat up.

It was a juggle of if the seat were lower and further back, my head and shoulders started going up proportionately pretty fast. That juggle is because it isn't a TT bike with a vertical seat post. I bet a TT bike seat post doesn't need the seat so far forward.
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Well the most common line you hear on steeper seat angles is about needing to save your hams/gluten for the run (this is BS). Others talk about opening the hip angle, which likely does apply to some people, but is hardly canon. Really the easiest way to get aero is long and low. Things like power production and comfort in position are going to be different for everyone, but as you can see by the (old) photo below I'm able to maintain a properly aero position, despite my lack of flexibility (lumbar is fused) by moving back (8.5cm behind the BB here) and moving my elbows forward (allows for a more natural shrug). We're talking a 20w difference between this and my UCI legal position.


Last edited by: Grill: Mar 8, 18 6:58
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Ok, I understand the comment above then.


Well, this is going to be at most a 10 mile time trial position. NOT an ironman or tri setup. I can fall over at the finish with nothing left instead of worrying about having to run afterwards. So, I'd say any suggestions should keep that in mind.
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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The above photo was from a 10 mile TT. A cramped position has nothing to do with distance. Efficiency and low CdA need not be mutually exclusive.
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Just a side note------ from the pictures provided with the head on shots, it appears to me that your front wheel is improperly dished to the right side of bike or left when looking head-on, tire is closer to right fork blade. Even looking at the hub shot it looks shifted. Remove wheel, flip and re-install and check if closer to right blade.

BTW, comfort is needed for long distance power output no matter what anybody else does. Looks good to me.
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Grill!

I'll see what I can do. If I get any results soon from a ride, I'll be sure to post up. I may, for before/after sake, get some kind of ride info from what I've got and then try the suggestions so I've got both. Not totally scientific or "Chung" based stuff, but I've got a power meter at my disposal.

I've come to not like riding on greenways once I became a serious rider/racer, but, there is a local 30mi long greenway here. I can make my way safely out of town past the runners and stuff at slower speed to the more "secluded" areas and do some at-speed testing in relative privacy and safety.

I'm just not convinced I should ever ride on a country road with that helmet covering my ears and learning that position.
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Hang the prints over the mantle.

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Was your lumbar fused by surgery?
Due to a herniated disc?
Other reason?

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

--
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Grill wrote:
Well the most common line you hear on steeper seat angles is about needing to save your hams/gluten for the run (this is BS). Others talk about opening the hip angle, which likely does apply to some people, but is hardly canon. Really the easiest way to get aero is long and low. Things like power production and comfort in position are going to be different for everyone, but as you can see by the (old) photo below I'm able to maintain a properly aero position, despite my lack of flexibility (lumbar is fused) by moving back (8.5cm behind the BB here) and moving my elbows forward (allows for a more natural shrug). We're talking a 20w difference between this and my UCI legal position.


My shoulders hurt just looking at that. No way could I spend 112 miles in the position. Maybe an Olympic but nothing more than that.
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [M~] [ In reply to ]
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I've done a couple of 12 hour TTs in that position. Comfy as. :D
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Check your front wheel.
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [OlderTryGuy] [ In reply to ]
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Could just be clamped wrong, but def wonky.

***
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [M----n] [ In reply to ]
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You all are correct on the front wheel. I had very quickly tossed it on from the closet to do that. It's fixed. I saw that in the pics also and was like "wtf".
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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First time out on that setup:
https://www.strava.com/activities/1444493402/

Flat, but curvy and windy. Wasn’t getting after it too hard. I had to lift my head every hundred yards for a turn to see where I’m going. I know I lost a lot doing that and slowing for turns.

Digging in looked like with jersey and road helmet this setup is at about 24mph and 235w.

Meaning with no pedestrians, turns, bridges or crap I can get close to my target 10mi speed in non race kit.

The skinsuit and helmet plus not looking up may be worth 1mph alone. When I could tuck the head and not look up too much the watts per mph was great. I can’t tell you in the data where that is, but it was noticeable.

By April I should be able to add 10 to 20 watts just on getting more used to the position. I’m happy on a test ride not done at 100% that I could avg what I did. 23.5mph on a curvy 7mi area with slowdowns for walkers a couple times.

Now that I have confidence I’ll go do my Clayton road loop.

Didn’t want the first try on that setup to be with cars.

When I had space to get up around 250 to 280w the speed was just nuts for a road bike clip-on bar setup without race kit.

It’s gonna be a great target first 10mi race to get 24min flat.

A good training loop and training kit goal would be 24.5 min.

I know that’s not Tri or TT bike speed for watts, but I was pleased so far. I felt comfortable too. Not stressing my upper body or lungs the way the pictures would lead you to believe.

When the win wasn’t blowing once the head was down I swore I saw 26mph at under a power I can do for a TT.
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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My back hurts just looking at your position.
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]
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Definitely not saying it's for everyone... but I think most people overestimate how uncomfortable a stretched out position like that is. The farther past 90° I can get my shoulder angle(supposedly the sweet spot) the more comfortable I am. (and in general the lower my head sits on it's own) Probably helps if you are sitting slightly more "on" the saddle as opposed to fully rotated off the front. But of course, it's personal.

It's odd when you compare fits from ST to fits from TTF. Very different (in general) methodology.

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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For 20ish minutes, it’s perfectly comfortable.

I think I may blow the entire $20 for the Wahoo TT bar mount for the Bolt. Right now it’s far enough back you move your head for a glance.

I’ll definitely be working on a negative split strategy. I’ve found I can push my 2x20s to a pretty good % doing that.

I’d like to podium. The wife is a runner and has all these medals. She asked why I didn’t. I said “in bike racing you’re just the next loser”.
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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That's weird, the only medals I have are the participation ones given out at every single running event...
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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Morelock wrote:
Definitely not saying it's for everyone... but I think most people overestimate how uncomfortable a stretched out position like that is. The farther past 90° I can get my shoulder angle(supposedly the sweet spot) the more comfortable I am. (and in general the lower my head sits on it's own) Probably helps if you are sitting slightly more "on" the saddle as opposed to fully rotated off the front. But of course, it's personal.

It's odd when you compare fits from ST to fits from TTF. Very different (in general) methodology.

I think a lot of FIST fitters focus too much on the 90° upper arm / torso angle part of the process and not enough on the "you get what you want" part of the process (when setting cockpit length). IF you teach the rider how to shrug and turtle and IF you really give them the cockpit distance that they want based on comfort, you are going to end up with A LOT of riders who are way beyond that 90° mark.

What's a TTF fit?
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
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FindinFreestyle wrote:
What's a TTF fit?

A fit where >.200m^2 puts you in the minority. ;)
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
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FindinFreestyle wrote:

What's a TTF fit?

ahh TTF = Timetriallingforum

Just commenting that the fit pictures over there vs. here are often pretty different. (for a multitude of reasons)

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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Did a local TT last night. I knew I'd be a lot slower than the other guys, but it's about your time and improving your times.

First roll officially on the entire setup, helmet, suit, position as posted: the Wahoo Bolt had it at 230NP and 220 avg based on a 280w 20min FTP. There's some left on the table for sure to find.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1455111104/overview


I simply could not stay in position the entire time in that wind. I had to soft pedal quite a few times and sit up to not go off the road. This brought down the speed and avg power output a bit.


I'm happy though. Pacing was very hard for me as a beginner since it had some rollers and heavy wind. I think I wussed the crest over of the hill twice though by giving the hill a tiny bit too much.


I didn't turnaround very elegantly, missed the clip in on the start. Wah wah wah. None of that would have gotten me remotely close to these guys.


I felt a disadvantage on a course like this was having to reach to shift gears. That sucked


I feel like on the pan flat speedway with less wind, I'll get close to my goal. I've got a month. I'd like to get that power figure up a bit, from familiarity in the position and workouts working the engine in that power range and amount of time.


I think my pacing in the flats/steady is decent.
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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I think you alluded to it a little by saying you were uncomfortable and had to sit up, but I'm curious: you've done a 20-min FTP test and hit 280W but your power for this TT was around 220W? Especially given that you're not swimming before or running afterward, I would think those numbers should be much closer together. You might sacrifice 10-20W to get into the aero position, but not 60W.

Coach at TriForce Triathlon Team: https://www.triforceteam.com
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Re: Here comes the road bike TT setup....blast away... [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Some "in depth" TT position testing for power and HR. LOL, in depth my axx. :laugh:

Just picked a target of 170w and did about 5 min each: drops and subsequent TT positions.

https://www.strava.com/.../1534010126/overview

Cliff notes: I made you a table.........
Position | Avg Pwr | HR0 | HR1 | HR2 | HR3 | HR4 | HR5 |
Hoods | 167w | 125 | 132 | 136 | 138| 139 | 141 |
TT1 | 167w | 124 | 140| 142| 143| 143 | 144 |
TT2 | 167w | 124 | 140| 140 | 143 | 145 | 144 |
TT3 | 167w | 124 | 133| 138 | 140| 141 | 142 |

Results:
I felt better getting the body more forward from the last even for "TT1". The HR seemed to more closely follow the hood position. But, wasn't feeling I found anything.

TT2, same but I just move from having my butt all the way on the saddle to "taint on fire" position. It's a 10mi TT once a month, I can deal with it. But, no change.

TT3.........ahhhh. I assumed a road saddle in the perfectly flat "velominati" position might be tilting my pelvis up into a worse position. Maybe...........assumption verified. TT3, IMO shows a much closer correlation to the HR in the hoods riding position.

I measured, and the saddle setback avoids that 5cm test. The ski tips also avoids the 75cm test, barely. Not a big deal as this series isn't strict on that stuff and has full on triathlon superbikes showing up (P5X).

Video: I skipped the hoods filming as we know what that looks like. First position is with body more forward but sitting on seat all the way back. 2nd position is moved forward on the seat AND got the seat angle down a touch. It was at that perfect level "velominati" position before. Nose down some afterwards.


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