Looks like you gotta pay to see it.

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Strava

Emma has a great idea here that I had not thought of: "Snowsill said would-be drivers should be required to ride bikes on the road before being given their vehicle licenses to learn to respect cyclists.
“If you want a drivers license, you should have to ride on the road,” Snowsill said."

Would-be drivers should be required to ride on a busy 4-lane road during rush hour; this would give them some concept of what cyclists deal with. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

anecdotal and similar story...

riding down a 2 lane 30 mph road doing around 20 or so. NO ONE else on the road except myself and the big redneck truck that decided to ride up right behind me and lay on their horn. i simply stopped right on the edge of the road and stared at him. he finally got tired of laying on his horn and proceeded forward nearly running me over as i was taking pics of his vehicle with my cellphone.

its amazing what some people in this world will do.

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80/20 Endurance Ambassador

Did you send those photos to the cops?

Hopefully, sometime soon, it will be even more convenient to film drivers and hold them accountable with the police.

15 years from now, tractor trailers will be replaced by driverless technology and all these fat hogs will have to find another way to express their road rage.

It just seems so crazy to me that some drivers actually can't stand cyclists. It seems to be the case in alot of non-euro countries. Here in Belgium (and most other EU countries) people ride a bike since childhood and know the dangers, they rarely actively abuse cyclists. Ofcourse there's the regular moron that has no clue what he's doing in traffic and proves to be a real danger, but I can't imagine someone willingly trying to run me over.

Video. Get video cameras for your bike.

To post a similar story, I live in Western Pennsylvania where the coal trucks, tractor trailers and pipeline welders occupy the same roads as cyclists. Its an accident waiting to happen around here. I have had mountain dew, cocacola, bags of fritos all thrown from windows towards me.

I am not going to stop cyling because I love it. But, soon comes the day where cameras can be worn, and will be admissible to police authorities for such acts. Until then, just keep on riding.

Yes, they can be helpful after the fact but a camera won't stop you from getting dead or seriously injured.

First ride back in New Zealand in nearly a year before Christmas. The road is usually largely free of trucks but a changed weight restriction (didn't know about this at the time) 'forced' large stock and logging trucks around the quiet valley roads. First truck scared the hell out of me as he came past on the narrow, twisty road. Then, heading at speed down a lovely little straight downhill, I see a twin unit stock truck coming up the hill towards me, just as I became aware of another truck coming up from behind. A large blast of the horn from the truck behind and he hurtled past me almost clipping my handle bars. I still do not know how I managed to stay upright .

Absolutely no need for that behaviour. Straight road, broad daylight, plenty of visibility. Plenty of time to slow down a little.

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Trust me I’m a doctor!
Well, I have a PhD :-)

Fellow Aussie here and yep it's that bad now. There is an irrational scathingly hatred of cyclists. From the 'pay rego' warriors to the 'fags in lycra' bogans, it's everywhere. A lot of accidents happen nowadays in perth. The media makes it worse too

Agreed. I've always thought a nice solution for chronically terrible or violent drivers would be to make them drive scooters, or at least a tiny smart car.

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https://connect.garmin.com/modern/profile/domingjm

I'm sure you've all heard of this, but he finally goes on trial early this year (projected). To recap: allegedly hits cyclist, gets home and removes identifiable bumper stickers, son turns him in to police, he lies to FBI about the details, claiming that he thought someone threw their bike at him from the side of the road. Total shit head.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/williamson/2017/12/27/year-review-natchez-trace-parkway-bike-incident-go-trial-2018/945240001/

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https://connect.garmin.com/modern/profile/domingjm

Yep, having lived the first 38-39 years of my life in Europe (Switzerland, but also riding for training camps in France, Italy and Spain), and now the last 6 years in Australia (Canberra, where it's actually much better than elsewhere in the country), I can vouch for the difference in mindsets/respect/whatever you want to call it.

30+ years riding in Europe, not a single incident. After a week in Australia, I had people open their windows to shout 'get off the road', abuse me in other forms for no other reason that I'm riding a bike (Lycra or not), try to run me off the road (and nearly kill me in the process), etc...

Truly appalling what's happening here without anything being done about it (some politicians are actually making things worse, see NSW's new laws with increase of amount of fines for cyclists (now equivalent to cars), etc... I must say that the new laws and associated awareness campaigns around the 1.5m rule have made a difference (a lot less cars passing very closely now, but still magnitudes more than in Europe).

There are plenty of nut job loony bullies out there who love to act tough when they are in the safety of their car unfortunately.

That being said many cyclists do bring aggression on themselves (not saying this in anyway related to this story or previous comments)-I'm constantly amazed at the level of arrogance they have riding 3-4 abreast taking up a whole lane and thinking nothing of the traffic crawling behind them. Its actions like these that leaves people seething and hating cyclists...heck I've even experienced it when on the bike-4 guys riding 4 abreast on a bike path at around 20km/hr and not a care in the world about everyone that was stuck behind them. I gave them a mouthful when I could finally pass. I have also nearly been taken out +5 times by idiots riding flat out around blind corners on the wrong side of the bike trail.

Just pure arrogance and entitlement.On the flip side I feel I'm a very courteous rider and always show drivers and other riders respect. As a result in 10+ years of road riding I am yet to have a single problem (lucky I know) and regularly have drivers wave me through, wait for me etc. But as I realise Im probably pushing my luck I have recently bought a kickr to do 99% of my riding.

Education is required on both sides..

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Agreed. I am constantly trying to educate members of my family about how cyclists have every right to use roads and the rego argument is a poor one. Rego essentially offsets wear and tear on the roads, a cyclist doesn't typically do any damage.

I grew up relatively close to where this probably happened and have ridden motorcycles and bikes all around south East Queensland. The road rage in this region is the worst I've seen anywhere - I have worked all around Australia and driven in Europe and South America.

Unfortunately some cyclists don't help in the manner in which they ride, e.g. When I was still living and working in Brisbane I regularly had to drive slowly passed a group of 15+ cyclists riding 2-3 abreast on a busy road in the north of the city(effectivley one lane each way as on the weekends people could park all day in the outside lane). It was frustrating and I got abused when I pointed out if they didn't hold traffic up they might find people more tolerant of them. Hostility exists on both sides; however, a cyclist is no match for a car or truck.

The problem is that here in Australia even cyclists keep mentioning this "unfortunately some cyclists don't behave" narrative that keeps comforting cycling agonists that their behaviours are justified. There are just as many drivers, walkers, insert any other population sub-group, who don't always behave or respect the rules, but nobody uses this argument to threaten the other members of that community?

Regarding your example above, how could 15+ cyclists riding in a group NOT hold traffic up in this situation? The problem is that a busy road allows for parking on the side, really. Even if the cyclists ride two abreast (the recommended behaviour for them in this instance, and the law says you can ride two abreast) the cars would not be able to pass if traffic is constantly going the other way. If the cyclists ride single file, then their own lives are at much greater risk, allowing cars to squeeze by with minimal distance. It's not on the cyclists. It's on the road management authority.

I hope he gets the max but note the skewed penalties. Hitting the cyclist is the least consequential of his offenses. Obstructing justice is what he is most at risk for although I'll be happy if ends up behind bars for any of the charges

slowbmw, I have a Samsung 360 camera on my helmet during training. It is a bit heavy, but has a great looping video feature. I take extra batteries and swam them out and can generally cover a 5 hour ride.

And, here is the bad and good news. I have talked extensively with police officers about the video evidence and they have said unless you are hit and there is damage to you or your bike, the video evidence is not enough to write a citation. While I don't get this at all, this is what they have said, which doesn't make any sense given that the same video evidence is usable if you are hit by a car.

But the good news is that I have been advised by lawyers that you can take someone to small claims court for "intentional infliction of emotional distress" It may not work depending on the evidence and the judge but it certainly will scare some of the bullies behind the wheel doing this. I am right now taking my first driver to small claims court, I meet with the driver in mediation next Friday. They did an illegal uturn across the double yellow line and then into the bike lane and yelled at me "get off the road". I am sure the self-entitled driver is furious that I am suing, but we need to begin demanding civility towards cyclists and the best way to do this is to stand up to the bully drivers that do the crap that they have done to you and all other cyclists who put in the miles each year.

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2018 Races: IM Santa Rosa, Vineman Monte Rio, Lake Tahoe 70.3

If its not safe to ride two abreast or single file then don't ride there. Just because you can doesn't mean should.

Hello lassekk and All,

A couple of thoughts ....

.... http://www.safetyandhealthmagazine.com/...ning-the-foundation)

While it appears the 300 - 29 - 1 rule has been modified .... and by some declared unreliable or being used to mask real problems ..... I like it as a rule of thumb.

When after a few near misses or minor injuries you wonder ..... how many have I got left before the big one .... and maybe I better do something so it doesn't happen again.

And now we know .... cats actually have 29 lives .... and maybe we do too.







'Dirty Harry'


“I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?”

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

By the same token, what are cars doing on that road. If it's busy, don't drive there..

That was the point (I poorly) was trying to get across.

Sorry but this doesn't make sense. Many roads were designed specifically for car use only before bike use became common, as such they are inherently dangerous for bike users . You can get into the whole 'who has the right' to use the road and play chicken all you like but 1 tone of metal will always beat 7kg of carbon fibre...

Id prefer to ride without the stress, angst....or danger.

This entitlement is a big part of the problem, I agree. And it's wrong too. Nobody owns the road, learn to share. And I'm pretty sure bikes were on roads before cars were invented.

.
It's really difficult to rationalize that disparity.

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https://connect.garmin.com/modern/profile/domingjm

That's great. My overwhelming sense of justice would see me doing the same thing. Good luck.

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https://connect.garmin.com/modern/profile/domingjm

Reminds me of the time I was called a "faggot" while out riding: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...omeuppance_P2847751/

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Thanks for posting this.
I really like Emmas suggestion.
Recently, a group of 10 I was riding with, were pulled over shockingly by a cop in a local town.
Needless to say we were flabbergasted that WE were the reason he flew by us sirens blaring at 60MPH down a small side road. After stopping us, he said he could issue each of us 10 dollar tickets. And deciding to use the F word at us a few times, I was sent over the edge.
I decided to write to the chiefs email, listed on the website and describe the situation in detail. A call from THAT police officer came about 90min later. He could not articulate WHY we "could" get a 10 dollar ticket each but was adamant that we deserved it, and he was blown away that I said he used the F word. (which is prob why his boss told him to call).
To emmas point...his tone totally changed when i offered to decorate him in super high end equipment and to come for a ride with me. I said I would even provide him some education prior to going out, for free. I stopped short of saying I would happily reimburse his time for this too (and i would).. but I digress. So he could see what it was like riding on the roads with the cars. The ones who brush by, or honk or yell or throw something. And one of these things happen EVERY time we go out.
I am going to forward this string too. Bc even though it should be law to ride a bike on the road before you get a license, maybe sending this string to local police chiefs will have a small impact. (crazy right? I know..)
Safe riding everyone.
daved

If cyclists feel the need to ride on a road where they hold up traffic in order to ride safe, they should do what every other slow moving vehicle does in that situation. They should pull over every few minutes or whenever it is safe to do so to allow the traffic to pass. If the cyclists can't be bothered to do what farm tractors and other slow moving vehicles are required to do, they shouldn't be on such roads.

When I ride on a road where I feel the need to "take the lane" to be safe, I pull off frequently. For me this is usually in construction zones or on twisty descents since I normally choose to ride on safer roads. Share the road doesn't mean that cyclists get to own the road.

I left Gold Coast, QLD and Oz back in 2001 and these events were key to my decision to leave the country. In the last year there, I was hit 3 times, including once by cops in a roundabout. They saw me on the ground and left. I went to the police station and they threatened me.
The 3 times I got hit add up to the numerous close calls. Every. Single. Ride.

Australia... shithole country

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I wish everyone would buy front and rear cameras. This shit happens way too often and if everyone had cameras it would really shine a light on this behavior. Plus negative interactions with cops would get recorded too.

We get this in the UK a bit too... "pay your f**king road tax". Makes me laugh because road tax was abolished in the 1930s and replaced with an excise duty, which is now based on the emissions of the car. Hybrids and very low emissions cars pay zero tax. A driver who was shouting abuse at me from his Prius didn't get the irony, even when i tried to explain it.

I really don't enjoy group rides as i think you're inviting the abuse, i ride alone, and i try to be aware of cars that cant get past etc. and if they have been behind for a while i will pull over and let them past, and I always thank the courteous drivers.

UPDATE**
Local police chief that this thread was sent to responded.
He thanked me and asked to have coffee. Will take him up on it.
Always good to have civil discussions on this.

As for the argument about not riding on this road or that road and avoiding bc it is busy etc... just does not make any sense to me. What ever happened to sharing? In this case, sharing space.

Busy road, crowded road etc doesn't matter. If you are walking on a sidewalk and need to slow down or move to get around someone..do you yell at them to take a less crowded sidewalk? Or threaten them? or creep up behind them and then yell loudly in their ear simulating a horn? or do you just .... wait for it... share that space!?!?!? by adjusting your speed and direction....

daved

let's just call this what it is: Frodo survived attempted murder.

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

does anyone use and have suggestions for any front/rear cameras?

Literally at the top of my road last summer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbjWpPENrIw

Exactly the same problem in the UK with fat louts in vehicles giving it large to make up for their tiny manhood. I just don't get some people. Out on my ride today we got buzzed by someone who had taken issue with us riding two abreast on a section of road - held him up for all of 5 seconds or so.

I think it doesn't really dawn on these people how stupid they are until they are staring down the business end of a 20 year prison sentence for murder, well, if the courts do their job of course...

Better yet organize a large group of Lorre's / 18 Wheeler's to bully regular cars and push them around into uncomfortable situations. Then ask them to get into that same environment on a bicycle to really hammer home the point here. Safety, Respect and Humane attitudes for all.

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

Fly 12 / Fly 6 combo. They just came out with new versions of both.

o.k, but do you need to ride two abreast? It seems to me that many riders ride in a fashion that rightly or wrongly attract the ire of car drivers...and continue to keep riding that way. I have NEVER had anyone abuse me, toot their horn at me or anything. Quite the contrary I often get drivers showing me courtesy and waving me through and waiting for me etc.

I know I'm going to get flamed but....it seems there are riders who have a level of arrogance that they own the rode and that everyone else can just dam well wait for them, and then play the victim card when they don't get flowers and a box of chocolates in return.

I ride 300+ks a week and also drive regularly and as a driver I get frustrated when coming behind a group of riders taking up half a road for no good reason. Roads are there to be shared-taking up half a road (which is effectively the whole road) is not sharing. As a rider I can only begin to imagine how non bike sympathetic drivers must feel. And then bike community scratches their heads about levels of aggression.

It's what the highway code suggests we do. We don't do it all the time, but at the same time we are generally riding on quiet roads in the countryside early on a Saturday / Sunday morning. I agree that certain cyclists can be utter tools, but even if someone is riding along giving you the finger, spitting on your car etc etc is that an excuse for murder?

Aside from a Go-Pro, is there something ultra lightweight, maybe combined with a seatpost light that has long HD reverse camera recording ability that will hold a charge for a 5-6 hr ride? Seems like a good market and safety feature + preventative measure for cyclists to have. Many times an offending driver does their stuff before you can get a license or view of what they're doing behind you.

At least you'd have some ammo for court cases aside from a finger pointing match if you survived.

Cycliq fly 6

Meanwhile, back in the U.S.......

“The driver accused of killing a popular Bend cyclist last month allegedly circled back after the crash and berated other cyclists who were riding with the victim, a prosecutor said during a hearing Tuesday in Deschutes County Circuit Court.

Members of the Bend cycling community crowded the courtroom, helmets in hand, for the latest hearing in a manslaughter case against Shantel Witt, 41, who is accused of crossing the centerline in her GMC pickup and striking 38-year-old Marika Stone on a two-lane stretch of Dodds Road east of Bend. Stone, a local dentist and mother of two, died at the scene. Witt is accused of driving while impaired.

Deputy district attorney Kari Hathorn said after allegedly striking Stone, Witt drove off briefly before turning back. And back at the scene, she yelled at Stone’s two surviving companions, allegedly saying, ‘You f-ing cyclists, always crossing the centerline,’” Hathorn said.

Witt held her husband’s hand as she passed through the crowded courtroom to the defendant’s table.

She stands charged with manslaughter, driving under the influence of intoxicants, reckless driving and reckless endangerment. The results of a pending blood test could yield additional evidence.

Judge A. Michael Adler denied a motion by the prosecution to increase Witt’s bond amount from $270,000 to $500,000. But he imposed all other requested conditions, including house arrest for Witt for the duration of the trial, GPS monitoring, a prohibition against driving and a requirement to wear an ankle monitor with an alcohol sensor.

She’s scheduled to be arraigned on indictment Feb. 6 after the case goes to a grand jury.

Stone’s father, Gregory Middag, briefly addressed the court Tuesday to argue for strict trial conditions for Witt.

“We ask the judge to keep the safety of the community in mind,” he said.

Witt was to begin her house arrest immediately following the hearing.

According to Deschutes County Sheriff’s Office’s narrative of her arrest, Witt was driving east on Dodds Road at 3:21 p.m. on Dec. 30 near the intersection with Obernolte Road. She had failed to negotiate a slight right curve, continuing straight and striking Stone, who was the third cyclist in a line of three heading west.

A search warrant affidavit describes how Witt failed three field sobriety tests and admitted to taking painkillers and muscle relaxers. In her vehicle, officers found empty beer cans, prescription drugs and a 9mm pistol.

Hathorn cited Witt’s alleged actions in the moments immediately following the collision in arguing for a higher bail amount.

“She is a danger to the community because of her lack of remorse,” Hathorn said.

Additionally, Hathorn said the district attorney’s office received a call from someone who knows Witt reporting a concern for her mental state.

Stone practiced at Bend’s Mill Point Dental Center. She is survived by two children, 5 and 7, her parents and an identical twin sister. A native Alaskan, she was valedictorian of her Ketchikan High School class. She later graduated with honors from Portland’s Willamette University, as well as the University of Minnesota School of Dentistry, according to an online bio.

Outside the hearing, friends of Marika Stone hugged and talked quietly.

Ryan Levering was sitting in Stone’s dentist chair when they first met.

“I sat down and immediately, when she walked in, I thought, I want to be friends with her,” she said. “She was just unbelievably tough, physically and mentally, and unbelievably intelligent.”

Friend and fellow cyclist Kristi Cutter of Bend said, “Losing her doesn’t just affect this community; it’s far-reaching.”

Many cyclists at the hearing are members of the Sunnyside Sports Race Team, of which Stone was a member.

Peter Werner, an official with Oregon Bicycle Racing Association, said Stone was one of a dozen or so elite female cyclists in Central Oregon.

Witt and her husband own a house in Bend. They’ve lived here for 34 years. She doesn’t currently work, her attorney, Bryan M. Donahue, told the judge.

She was arrested in 2014 for driving under the influence of intoxicants. She successfully completed diversion treatment to have the case dismissed.”