I wanna go downhill...

How did you find their test website? This product is not listed on the main website.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

No idea. But I didn't notice that. Glad I grabbed the pics!

I was just googling to remind myself of the max grade my Kickr can do. Looking to make changes to Zwift setting to be closer to 100% of grade instead of the current default of 50%

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TEAM HONEY BADGER

Wow good find! Looks interesting

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the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning

Max Incline: 20%
Max Decline: -10%
Compatible Trainers: New Wahoo KICKR (model released August 2017) and New KICKR SNAP (model released July 2017)
Metrics: Current Grade
Dimensions: 25.75" H x 5.1" W x 7" L
Supported Hubs: QR, 12x100, 15x100, 15x110
Wireless Software Updates: Yes
3rd Party App Compatible: Yes, when paired to a KICKR or KICKR SNAP

So the Kickr is being updated to work with bikes like the P5-X and Andean. Does this mean I can't buy it to work with the current Kickr V2 that I have?

Is there an upgrade option to add the new hub support to the V2 without buying another new Kickr?

Lots of questions about this.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Looks like a leak for eurobike, curious what else changed in the KICKR besides the thru-axles...

We see Zwift in the picture, curious if the TrainerRoad guys have been involved...

Lots of Wahoo branding in their (TR) newest marketing efforts.

Edit: looks like the test site is down....

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2014 P3 DI2 - RT6, CXR80, Power2Max S, 820, Fenix 3 HR. (gone)

I still have the test site up on one of my tabs if you want to see more pictures...





Some very interesting features. What stands out to me is re-riding your favorite routes (if you have the elemnt or elemnt bolt) with all the ascents and descents. This seems super cool, but too pricey for me.

Is this a real product? It's a little early for April Fool's Day.

So my old 1st generation Kickr won't work with this?

That's the way I read it. No Gen1 Kickr. As an owner, I'm disappointed.

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TEAM HONEY BADGER

Confirmed with LBS, not a prank, real product coming to a store near you.

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Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes

Wonder if they'll have a bundle to save a little cash. Every time I get a flat on my computrainer I contemplate throwing it off a cliff. This would get me to spend the extra money on a Kickr. Total cost of about $2000 for this and the new Kickr is tough though.

Edit: Guess it's $1800 total. Still a lot.

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--Chris

I was originally wishing it would allow you to -steer- too. That was in Zwift you could change directions and go around people instead of through them.

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TEAM HONEY BADGER

Just the kickr is worth every nickle.

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Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes

That's actually pretty cool. I don't see a real training benefit other than increased immersion but it definitely has a "neat" factor to it.

I guess nobody told them that you can't simulate climbing by elevating the front wheel.

But cycling through someone is most bad-ass thing you can do! :)

Why not?

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--Chris

They either don't have any technical advisers familiar with physics or they kept it to themselves for some reason, perhaps because they thought it'd be funny.

Still don't know why raising the front wheel wouldn't simulate going up hill.

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--Chris

Think about the physics or just do a lot of searching/Googling.

Seems to me that raising the front wheel would simulate going up hill pretty well. Wahoo clearly agrees with me.

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--Chris

Wow, that's awesome. I honestly thought about doing something like this myself and looked at using a small motorcycle lift for the front wheel paired with a pc-controller motor to actuate it. But a combination of thinking it wouldn't respond quick enough, zwift not having an public api, and laziness, kept me from doing much other than dreaming.

As a kickr gen 1 owner, I don't know why this couldn't work with us, could simulate another trainer and receive ant+ commands from the computer or even use WiFi and talk to the zwift servers directly.

I've thought about the physics, and I don't know what searches I'm supposed to do.

What's wrong with simulating climbing by raising the front wheel (while simultaneously adjusting pedaling torque)?

Keep in mind that this is just a simulation. Every simulator has a degree of fidelity. A trainer is already very different in a lot of ways from actually riding on a road.

But I only see changing the pitch angle of the bike during "climbs" as slightly increasing the fidelity of the overall simulation.

Don't forget it's also going to simultaneously add resistance to the trainer. Your bike angles upwards and your pedaling becomes harder.

What I'm having a hard time with in the picture is, if the rotational axis is the rear axle, then the picture's angled straight line on the climb device is going to force the fork further and further away from the trainer as it slides up... This would be bad for the bike, or move the trainer. Maybe not all of the details are apparent in the picture.

Looks like the entire sumbitch rocks to account for that rotational axis and the different fork rakes, etc.

All major brands are trying to accurately simulating ascents/descents. Wahoo also going for the feel here
Looks like they going for a cheaper version of the Tacx magnum trainer, also safer than the big treadmill
Also do not see any benefit for this little elevator but we have yet to see reviews and test.
Nice find this will cause some noise in the industry

As I understand it, the big downside to the Magnum is that it *needs* incline to produce any sort of meaningful resistance.

hope somebody can crack it...so it works with a neo, which already had road feel.

Hope zwift or other trainer software would just see it an another device and run it separately from a kickr somehow.

I remember the InsideRide treadmill had a tether to simulate air resistance. Most riders opted not to use it. Why not just increase the angle of inclination slightly to compensate for the lack of air resistance? I think it was because they wanted it to actually be inclined at 5% when simulating a 5% grade and not, say, 6.5% while reporting it as 5%.

BIOMECHANICS AND ENERGETICS OF UPHILL CYCLING: A REVIEW

This paper supports the idea that uphill positioning is different and this device could therefore help simulate that

 
I hope Wahoo are reading this thread and plan on supporting people like me, who have supported them by purchasing 12 of these just before August and they neglected to mention they were planning updates which we wouldn't have the choice to use.

Merchant Bankers comes to mind......

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http://www.sweat7.com
Facebook Page: Sweat7
Twitter: @sweat7coaching

Which study supports that conclusion?

The one you just linked

It's not a study but a review of ~40 studies. Which one(s) supports your conclusion?

So they are going to release a new Kickr Model, when the current version was released 11 months ago? Not making a backwards compatible accessory is a pretty lame thing to do.....although I doubt I would buy this climbing thing anyway.

My impression is that it will be compatible with Kickr 2 but not Kickr 1. I could be wrong.

Stop being obtuse. Just state plainly state your issue with the Cimb. Have some basic respect for those you're trying to argue with.

Wow! thanks for posting

Was looking to order a trainer this weekend. Guess I'd better hold out through the week.

I found another pic I forgot to post. Good view of the rounded bottom that would allow rotation. And it appears to be matched up with a Kickr2.

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TEAM HONEY BADGER

I got as far as buying an actuator, and decoding the ant packets, but never got further.
When zwift talks to the kickr, it sends over ant data packets containing current slope gradient to simulate (as an aside for negative slopes zwift currently sends half the true value, i.e. if zwift says it's 10% down hill, it sends 5% down to the kickr - as it can't simulate down hill very well).
Presumably it's relaying this information to the Climb unit. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a spare channel to do this on the orginal kickr, so there might be a firmware upgrade in the future.
And like you say there shouldn't be anything stopping a software simulating another trainer to then relay the data. Just needs an extra ant dongle.

If you've done any serious climbing on the bike, you've realized that what is hard is not having the front wheel higher. What's hard is having to use your back muscles etc. to stabilize your bike and fight gravity. You really don't have to do this with the new device.
You can try riding for 1h at 280w with your front wheel level, and then 1h with your wheel on top of a thick book and will not see any difference.

More will come out Wednesday when the media embargo lifts, but to answer why this isn't retrofittable, consider the basic physics of your existing Wahoo Kickr; the front lifts, but the back is locked into the trainer. Considering there is no pivot point, imagine what that will do to your frame's dropouts: just tear them up. The two new trainers have dropout plug-ins that can rotate, meaning the frame can move freely without damage to your frame.

I've just been on it, tied to Zwift, and it's pretty rad. More soon...

 
The fighting gravity simulation is done by the resistance unit. Never noticed issues stabilizing the bike.

Doesn't mean they don't exist. I'm sure there's something valid there. Though that's true with non-roller trainers generally.

The Climb does seem like it'd help simulate the change in use of contact points. I think if you did an hour at 280W with three thick books and told me no difference you'd be lying. At a minimum it'd be way less comfortable I'd think. I think you'd have to work to stabilize your body. One book much less so. O

Well, the thing is that I've tried several times already and lifting your front wheel just does not simulate what you experience in the mountains.
I can raise my front wheel by 20cm and even after an hour at somewhat high wattage, you don't experience what you experience on steep mountains, or even long steady climbs at 7-8% for that matter.

The older kickrs don't allow for the bike to independantly move up or down. The new one does .

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/...cline-simulator.html

Looks like it's been officially announced. Also, it's only compatible with the new new Kickr (and new Snap), I guess Kickr 2.5?https://www.dcrainmaker.com/...kr-2017-edition.html
[/url]

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--Chris

As you saw the new Kickr and climb were announced today.
I also found a video.

An interesting tidbit, It looks like the climb can do up to +10 and -10.

I wouldn't but surprised if slowtwitch has more information on this soon.

And BOOM. DC Rainmaker has a review! Check it out.

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TEAM HONEY BADGER

The old kickrs are compatible with bikes like Andean and P5-x, you would just need to buy the thru axle adapter from Wahoo.

I'm calling Wahoo in about 10 minutes to ask them about this. I'll let you know what they say.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

I just called Wahoo. If you have Kickr version 2, it is not compatible with Kickr climb. You have to buy the 2017 Kickr. There are no plans to have upgrades available for Kickr 2 owners to allow them to use Kickr Climb.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

if so, doing a wheelie means you can climb 200% grades, uh huh

I'm not in the market for a new bike trainer but this looks cool and seems like it would make zwift even more fun. and I wonder if cycleops will do something similar and work with their virtual training software riding on actual courses.

Does the 2017 Kickr have any differences than the most recent version, other than the ability to work with the Climb?

Yes, it has more through axle support. The Kickr v2 only does 12x100.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Sorry....but what does 12x100 mean?

12x100 mm through axle

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Beat me to it. Just got emailed back from wahoo about compatability or lack thereof.

I have a V1 kickr and would totally buy this if there were a conversion kit, I would also consider upgrading to V2 if it was compatable/conversion kit. But I am not buying a brand new unit to than drop another $600 on the climb, exchange rates to Canada just make it absolutely insane.

I would hope wahoo is looking into this as I really don't think there is a huge market for $1800 bike trainers, but there are lots of dentists out there, so who knows

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Ask me how much I love my Kiwami LD Aero Trisuit

Apparently they tried to make it work with Kickr V2 but couldn't make it happen.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

The review on DC Rainmaker's site explains why backwards compatibility is not possible. It sounds like they tried, but couldn't make it work.

I would give them a pass on it. But I don't own their trainer.

That's incorrect. 12x100 is a FRONT through-axle standard. The older KICKRs supported only 12x142 through-axles, but it was through the use of an adapter-kit that turned the through-axle into a quick-release with some machined spacers.

It's not clear to me whether this updated version follows that same model - a modified QR with machined spacers - or if you can use the actual through axles through the frame to anchor the bike. From the pics I have seen - including in Ray's quick-take - it APPEARS as if it may be actual native through-axle support (meaning you use the through-axle directly with spacers). Ray seems to show spacers that have a 12mm hole. That'd be a big upgrade for folks with through-axles over the current system.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Oops! Thanks for correcting that

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

The animated GIF made me think of this scene (starts at 1:20):

Never tried playing with my trainer angle, but can definitely confirm that after going to the Alps recently that steady power output going up Alpe d'huez, Telegraphe and Galibier did things to my lower back muscles that I've never experienced putting out similar or higher power for the same duration on flat fast rides. Didn't really understand why at the time since when climbing I can adjust my position a lot more than a fast flat ride when I tend to stay in the drops the whole time with very little movement. I thought it might have had something to do with heat or altitude but your gravity and stabilisation explanation makes more sense.

Back on this new gadget, it does seem a bit of a gimmick to me, but then I only ride my trainer to hit specific power numbers and not to simulate outdoor riding (which I do plenty of - outdoors). So I use trainerroad and entertain myself with a movie, and never got into Zwift. If you want to make your indoor riding more realistic and live Zwift, then I guess this could be a good buy. I'd be very surprised if there was measurable training benefit, other than that if it makes you enjoy training more you'll end up doing more of it which is always good!

Haven't looked at the DC review yet, if they tried to make it work than fair enough.

I am no engineer, so I have no understanding of how it all works. I also don't know all the differences between V1, V2 and V3 but somehow they put a man on the moon, so I kind of find it hard believe there is no way to have a conversion kit, I also don't have a through axle bike so I dont need that adaptation. So is there a way to make a non through axle conversion? I am sure there is a market for that?

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Ask me how much I love my Kiwami LD Aero Trisuit

The new version has a bushing that allows the bike to pivot. The older versions simply compresses the dropout to the kickr. There is a disc brake through axel issue too, but the main one is that your dropouts would get shredded over time.

I am sure someone will find a way to make it work. Just curious if the climb knows it's a version 3 vs 2 and won't automatically work.

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Specialized Shiv
Scott Addict
Niner Jet 9
Niner RLT

To be clear, I think there's two levels of 'make it work':

A) Yes, it goes up and down, and then 4 months later your dropouts snap due to stress. Hopefully indoors, but potentially outdoors in a really bad spot.
B) Yes, it goes up and down, and doesn't do damage to the bike (short term or long term)

I suspect someone will find a way to make 'A' work in many cases. It's 'B' that's likely going to be more variable.

Of course, it's mostly academic since at present the KICKR itself is what sends control commands to CLIMB.

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My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com

Ray,
Do you know if it will sync with the kickr 2 and can be controlled by it?

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Specialized Shiv
Scott Addict
Niner Jet 9
Niner RLT

Fair enough, they tried, it doesn't work, it is what it is. I'll take option C from rainmakers list which is no wear on the dropouts and no issues with the bike moving forward!

Just thinking out loud, I would wonder if there is a way to ship older versions back to wahoo and have them rebuild the hub to allow it to be compatible. I'm guessing based on weight of the unit, the shipping cost would be quite high, but just wondering!

Also wondering if wahoo has considered a trade in program where they buy your unit, which they turn around and sell as a referb, and sell you a new version and climb as a package. Not sure how the financials of that would work, but would be interested.

I mean, it probably sounds like I am dying to get one of these, which really isn't the case. I am interested, but as is, the dollars and cents just don't add up. I still enjoy being married so spending $1800 USD isn't going to happen

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Ask me how much I love my Kiwami LD Aero Trisuit

Nope, unfortunately not.

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My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com

Well that sucks...

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Specialized Shiv
Scott Addict
Niner Jet 9
Niner RLT

The issue is rotation and the strain it would put on the rear drop outs. The new Kickr QR system was completely redesigned to allow vertical movement. I'm sure eventually someone here will figure out a workout around but retrofitting the Kickr was not possible...it was looked at. And then you add the fact it pairs directly to the Kickr which sends the signal to the Climb...

Agree, the non drive side pivots freely. The drive side needs either a thinner nut to hold the hub on and a bearing of some sort to allow pivot or replace the nut with an adaptor similar to non drive side and held together by the skewer. Not worth solving for if it won't connect to the kickr though.

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Specialized Shiv
Scott Addict
Niner Jet 9
Niner RLT

I saw a video review of this yesterday and the issue is both the dropouts and derailleur clearance vis a vis the handle (the handle has been moved a bit on the Kickr 17 to address this) but both might be able to be overcome. You can probably take care of the handle clearance issue by placing motion limits in the software that kick in on the older Kickr (assuming the software can "know" what model it is installed on) and it sounded like the dropout issue could pretty easily be cured with a retrofit but it would cost money.

The bottom line is that once you start moving the bike around, you have to account for what is moving and what might hit something or you'll start wrecking stuff. In fact, the 10 degree limit on the decent is due entirely to the fact that if you go any more than that with the current combo, cranks will can start hitting the floor.

Are there any Kickr discounts out there? Looks like the DCRainmaker code does not work on this product on Clever.