I am. Wrote a bunch about it here: https://rappstar.com/2017/06/09/bib-268/

TL;DR - I have always wanted to do the race, even since Bjorn did it in '05. Wasn't really sure I wanted to get back on the KQ train again this year, and when IMTX went sideways, that made the decision for me. Overall, this sort of race resonates with me a lot. I've been lucky to do some other "unique" races in my career, but nothing is quite like Norseman...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

I can see that Harry Wiltshire is also racing

See you there!

BIB 117

Scott

Cool - great! Thanks for the write-up - enjoyable.
Go for course record! :-)

IIRC Bjoern had to do an extra 20k on the bike because the swim was moved in 2005, but still had a bike-time very competitive vs other years:-)

It'll be really exiting to se how you fare. I'm guessing you will be swimming and riding close to L.C. Vold - and perhaps last years winner - a long way, unless you can ride away from him /them on the first long climb. The other good cyclists will be far back in swim, and Harry will lead by good margin, but you'll catch him before 40k on the bike.

Hope you will enjoy your stay in Norway (I'm local:-) - hopefully you habe time to arrive some time before the race and spend some time to recon and enjoy the scenery:-)

PS! Wait for me at the top, I finally got lucky in the draw!

Do they have a separate Pro field at Norseman? Do you have locals "crewing" for your up the mountain or are you bringing sherpas (literally). Ill be reading the link above while on the trainer today!

- no pro field. Most years there are no pros. And this might be the first year ever where there's more than one on the start list.

- I'm bringing a crew

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

It is my understanding, that is a tough race to start due to demand (I could be wrong, it happens a lot). As a pro triathlete, can you just shoot an email to let them know you intend to race or is it normal processes for each an every competitor.

(I'm just curious, things like this don't bother me.. .I actually feel it should be easier for a pro)

Good on you for racing though. If I ever nail down nutrition on a full distance triathlon, I'd love to line up.

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Dan Mayberry
Amateur a lot of things, professional a few things.

Per their website, they take 15 elite men, allocated by a jury based on merits. Must have gone under 9:15 in a 140.6 in the past 3 years. I'm guessing he got in with that pool.

Thanks, it's still reasonably tough then. I would assume they get a good lot more than 15 people who have gone under 9:15...

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Dan Mayberry
Amateur a lot of things, professional a few things.

I have no idea what the "standard" procedure is for professionals. I've been a fan of this race almost since it's inception. And my first communication with the race director Dag Oliver was in 2011 after seeing Tim DeBoom race it. After my comeback from my accident and - in particular, as I talked about in that post, my experience at the 2011 Leadman Epic 250 in Vegas (6.5hrs on the bike in 100F+ temps, 12,000ft+ of climbing over 138mi/223km) - I knew Norseman was a race that I simply had to do. I've had numerous conversations with Dag since then, and he has indicated that I had a standing offer to race Norseman whenever I wanted to, not only because my success at tough races but also because of my larger triumph over adversity post-2010-crash.

So I think there was/is a mutual sense of respect here that means maybe I was given some special consideration in terms of entry. As I said, I can't speak to other pros experience. In my case, this is a race that I've always wanted to do, and that the race director has known I've always wanted to do, and I just had to ask. I'm grateful for that. And I realize that I have a responsibility to live up to as a result. And I intend to do so.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

I'll be doing the race as well. Looking forward to it.
What are you doing, in terms of kit, to be ready for weather conditions? What are you planning to wear or have on hand that you would not typically have in an IM race?
Thanks

Thanks!

I was hoping there would be a relationship like that. Best of luck!

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Dan Mayberry
Amateur a lot of things, professional a few things.

I'm planning to wear a basic tri suit because that's the easiest to layer on top of.

I will bring in my support car:
- lightweight shell jacket
- thermal jacket
- thermal short sleeve jersey
- leg warmers
- neoprene gloves
- zip booties

I plan (tentatively) to start the bike with:
- toe covers
- wool socks (will bring a few different lengths)
- long sleeve Kiwami top
- lightweight shell vest
- lightweight gloves
- aero helmet (this helps a ton, in my experience. warm head = warm body)
- knee warmers

This is a very tentative plan, and I'll modify the "what I wear" vs "what goes in the car" lists after some recon on the course the week of the race and based on weather forecasts.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Great! Keep the planning details coming!

What tires/tubes will you be using?

Bib #143

John

Given that the roads are supposed to be rough, Specialized Turbo Cotton 24 with latex tubes and orange seal endurance inside.

Plan to run 808 fr/rr or maybe the new 454 disc front and rear.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Best of luck and thanks for sharing your prep. You'll also have around 30 less pounds of insulation compared to Bjorn!

Different definitions of rough - of course - but long parts of the flatter-faster section is actually pretty newly paved with good surface (from top of first climb to Geilo). Last downhill section from top og last climb is pretty rough though.

define rough. rough like chip seal or rough like potholes and poor repair from poor maintnance and frost heave.

Hi Jordan,

This topic deserves its own thread, but chiming in here as I value your input. I look forward to meeting you in Norway!

Have you begun planning logistics for bike support? For example, how often will you rendezvous with your support team? Will you identify specific rendezvous points based on a planned interval or go with the flow?

Ideally, I'd like two hours of fuel on board and see my crew once an hour for a hand up. However, that is easier said than done. I'm interested in how others will handle this.

While Norseman's volatile weather speaks for itself, I was still a touch surprised to see you are going with the 808 rear instead of your standard disc. Was that a difficult decision for you?

Have you identified a "reflective vest" that meets our standards here on Slowtwitch? And what lights will you be running?

Scott
Bib 117

Curious about this as well. I've been thinking about it quite a bit actually and have not formulated much of a plan.

Best of luck to all who was accepted! Did it last year and it was a tremendous experience. Just hit me with questions. The climb that you meet after 25k running is like nothing you've experienced before..

Are you planning on using the Andean, Rappstar?

I will strongly recommend to drive through the bike leg.
The more knowledge you have, the less stress on race day.

It is especially important not only for you, but for you crew to know the road from Imingfjell to Austbydge (T2).

Race day will be long for the crew, so make sure they have enough food.

Remember the reflective vest you need and make sure they your lights on your bike stay on your bike.

Enjoy Norway :-)

Hello,

Can you comment on my question to Rapp above regarding bike support logistics? How would you plan and manage that aspect of the race if you were racing again?

To all; Interested in the voice of experience on this topic. Please chime in if you have any input.

Thanks,

Scott

I was planning on the Andean. Given the weather, the reliability of braking would seem to me to hugely advantageous. Plus I can easily stash a vest and even some other basic gear - like knee warmers - in the trunk of the bike, which also would seem to be a massive advantage.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

I may run a disc. I was lead to believe initially - though maybe this was just my perception of the conversation - that the roads are really bad, which can be super uncomfortable on a disc. If I run a disc, I'll run a 26mm tire on it, which will certainly help. Certainly I'd prefer to run a disc. But my initial impression was that 808s would be more comfortable - which means speed - over the long haul. At the lower speeds, the aerodynamic benefit of the disc will be muted. Halvard said there's very little "flat" - it's mostly climbing or descending - which will also mute the benefit of a disc.

As far as the vest, I didn't see a *requirement* for reflective vest in the 2017 rules: https://nxtri.app.box.com/v/racemanual-2017

My vest is just a standard slim fitting Garneau vest with reflective piping.

As far as lights, I'm waiting to see the exact requirements. The most aerodynamic and lightest weight light setup I have would be an Exposure Joystick with RedEye rear. I'd probably run that or an Exposure Flash/Flare setup. I'll wait to hear the exact requirements though.

For crew, my plan will be to meet at designated spots. I'll bring two bottles and will plan to meet about every 90min, which would mean that I should be able to be adaptable as two bottles SHOULD last me 2hrs. I'll swap bottles whether I've emptied them or not. The 30min buffer should mean that if we have to shift meeting spots, that's no problem.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Reflective vest requirements were laid out in a newsletter early April.

As for lights, Brent had to say the following:

All of this will allegedly be in the athlete's​ guide. In the meantime, the FB Norseman Athlete zone has been pretty useful (minus the egocentric training pictures from a few).

Glad to have you as a competitor there!

I did not get support during the first 40k up to Dyranut, 1200m. This was due to extremely congested traffic due to closed roads and all the support cars. The athletes also had to cross the main road from the "old" road due to closures and that meant all traffic just stopped. Also, no support is allowed the before Vøringsfossen about 21k in but until then you'll have all your nutrition on your bike so there really isn't a need for that.

My crew just basically stopped whenever they had the chance. If I needed something I stopped as well or I would just bike past them. When passing me on the road they also asked me (through the window) how I was feeling and if I needed anything. Just make sure they park OUTSIDE the white line on the roads! And remember, there aren't many obvious places to stop so your crew will just have to stop whenever they can. They were exhausted at the end of the day ;)
And: read the manual numerous times.

It is important to remember that Norseman is going on on public roads with traffic.

I will recommend to get proper lights and keep them on the whole way.
You need a real reflective vest since you will go through a 2k tunnel.

The roads are not smooth. But how rough depend on what you are used to.
It can also be road works going on so you have to go over parts with gravel.
This is why I recommend to drive through the course, take pictures and make a mental map.

If you know you can easily get cold, plan to stay warm because if you get cold you can be in trouble.
The weather can also change your taste of food.

The last 30k can be scary if you are not used to going downhill.
You will not be able to eat here, and it is stressful for your crew to get to T2.

T2 has also limited parking spots.

If anyone have any questions, feel free to PM me.

Raced in 14. Happy to say got to finish at the top. Here's my two cents for bike support:

If you can drive the course before, go for it. But I didn't and we had no issues. Everyone will be on their own first 40K up to Dyranut...so you don't have to worry about that. My crew basically just leapfrogged me through the ride. I think it would be pretty risky to have them drive an hour or so ahead (sorry, not sure if you were thinking this or someone else). You don't want to get caught on the road without something and not have relatively quick access to them. It really is no joke... stuff (weather) comes up in a hurry there. You might need clothing, the race might force you to put on a reflective vest.

We had near cataclysmic weather/rain/hail on last bit at Immingfjel and it was gnarly. I took a ton of gear with me and ended up using a ton. For me, a Gabba jersey with castelli armwarmers (same material, can't remember what they're called) were awesome. Have warm, water proof gloves too... you'll likely need them. At the same time, it can warm up drastically in the valleys (did our year). So there was a good amount of shedding and re-dressing.

So, my opinion, have your crew checking in on you very frequently. Anyway, nothing else for them to do. It's a looooong day for them too. I had three crew members (my wife and two brother in laws)... and they all agreed they were glad there were three of them.

I don't have to be yet another person to say it...but... it really is that awesome of a race. An experience like no other. Standing at the top really is that amazing.

Have an awesome time.

And feel free to PM with any questions.

+1 on Gabba and other various Nanoflex materials!

We had a shitstorm of rain during the whole bike leg last year, 4deg C at Dyranut and people were shivering their a**es of. I was actually quite warm during the first 21k since there are some brutal climbs on the old road, but as soon as you get on the main road and out in the open you are very exposed to the weather. I'd say it's better to put on too much in the beginning rather than getting dressed while biking. Ever tried to put on leg warmers when you are cold, wet and in a hurry? I have, not easy ;)

Varies alot. The first 10k flat section I'd say has "normal" Norweigian asphalt-road standard. Not as rough as the roughest chip-seal you could imagine, but definately not highway-smooth. Large parts of the section from the first climb to Geilo has new asfpahlt, and is quite ok. After geilo you go back to your "normal" semi-rough Norwegian asphalt, and from Imingfjell to T2 the surface is quite rough. The decent from Imingfjell - while not very technical - has some really bad parts (potholes, frost heave, etc) so look out on this section.

Not that anyone should take my advice, but FYI I'm planning on riding a disc with a 25mm, and an 80 mm up front. Of course there is a lot of elevation on the course, but there are still some pretty fast sections where I think you really benefit from a disc. The first 10k are flat, and (most importantly) the section from 35 to 90k - while rolling - is potentially very fast. The decents are also pretty straight, and you could benefit from a disc. I'd also say the possibilities of crosswinds favour a disc, as long as you can handle it in the wind (I'm heavy, so easier for me than someone of 60kg). (Contrary to what some people seem to believe - the advantage of disc's go up in high wind/crosswind, as opposed to calm conditions). I've probably disclosed as much already, but I'm in the " a disc is always faster"-camp :-)

Take my advice with a grain of salt as I dropped out 50 miles into the bike last year, shaking so bad I couldn't stay upright and was concerned for my safety.

From T1 to Dyranut, I was wearing a long-sleeve base layer and a tight aero jersey up top, and tri shorts. (The shorts were dry--I did a full change in T1.) I think I had light gloves on. I had "waterproof" booties over my shoes. I was fine. The weather was dry and not too much wind. I was totally comfortable during this section. But once you get to Dyranut and the Hardangervidda, it's a different world.

When I got to Dyranut, the rain and wind were howling and I felt sleet on my aero helmet. I put on a long-sleeve Castelli Gabba and waterproof lobster gloves with heat packs. I also put on leg warmers.

None of this worked. After 20 or 25 miles, I was soaked through despite the supposed waterproof clothes. I also was way behind on nutrition because I wouldn't/couldn't take off my gloves to feed myself. (I was using more solid food than sports drinks because I knew I wouldn't be sweating much.)

I actually had my Gore-Tex ski jacket shell in the car as a last-resort clothing item, but I was so cold and rattled that I couldn't go on. I also had neoprene scuba gloves that I didn't put on for some reason. I let my condition deteriorate so much that even though I had other clothing available, I was in too much of a funk to try to reset and dry off. The race officials say that you can't sit in the car, but I heard that some people went into buildings to dry off and change. Not sure if that's allowed or not. I'd bring waterproof rain pants. 39F/4C and wet is a tough combination to deal with. Unfortunately, my clothing choices were more focused on aero than complete waterproofness.

The race officials insist on a real reflective vest, not just bright yellow clothing. And the tunnels are a little freaky. The long one has cars with headlights illuminating it, but there are a couple others that were pitch black.

I scouted out these stop locations using Google Earth in advance. There's parking at each one. I liked the idea of knowing in advance exactly where the car would be. Again, though, I dropped out just before Geilo so don't know how well the second half locations would have worked. The times are based on getting on the bike at 6:30 a.m. after a 1:22 swim and an 8 minute T1. I used Best Bike Split to calculate the times at each stop--it's not just based on average speed. I'd err on the side of planning more stops than you think you'll need, more for clothing swaps than for nutrition refills. Once things started going downhill, so to speak, I added stops. I told my wife and niece to go five miles ahead and find a place to stop. It was driving rain and I didn't want to take off my gloves, so my niece jammed food into my mouth.

Start 0:00:00 6:30:00 a.m.
Voringfossen (10.5 mi/16.9 km) 1:05:00 7:35:00 a.m.
Maurset (14.4mi/23.2 km) (our condo) 1:27:00 7:57:00 a.m.
Dyranut (21.9mi/35.2 km) (orange turisthytta--lots of parking) 2:12:00 8:42:00 a.m.
Just after bridge/causeway (36mi/57.9 km) (park on left) 2:54:00 9:24:00 a.m.
Ustaoset (48.7mi/78.4 km (near Joker) 3:32:00 10:02:00 a.m.
Top of climb (59.4mi/95.6 km) (Just after town with lake on left) 4:14:00 10:44:00 a.m.
Top of climb (69 mi/111 km) 4:52:00 11:22:00 a.m.
Top of climb (77 mi/123.9 km) (Vasstulan Hoyfjellsseter) 5:29:00 11:59:00 a.m.
Top of climb (87 mi/140 km) (near lake) 6:21:00 12:51:00 p.m.
Top of Imingfjell (94 mi/151.3 km) 6:43:00 13:13:00 p.m.

Also, make sure everything is organized and not just thrown in the car. Here was my plan:

Morning
Nipple tape
Immodium

Breakfast (2:30 a.m.)
Coke
Banana
Pastries

Swim
Swimsuit
Wetsuit
Goggles
Neoprene socks?
Cap
Hood? Vest?
Extra goggles
Garmin 920XT
Gu/Water
Body Glide
Socks/Shoes/Bag

Wife in T1 During Swim
2 pairs hand warmers (unwrapped at 6 a.m. and inserted into lobster gloves)
Garmin 500 (started at 6:15 a.m.)

T1
Towel
Tri Shorts
Chamois Butter
HR Strap
LS Black Shirt
Sunscreen
Bike Jersey
Vest
Race Belt/GPS
Socks
Toe warmers
Bike Shoes (with toe covers)
Lobster gloves (with 2 hand warmers in each)
Sunglasses
Helmet

Water/Gatorade (on bike)
2 Clif Bloks (on bike)
2 Gels
2 Baby wipes
Headlight
Tail light
Cell phone in bag

T1 Just in Case
Bike rain jacket in pouch
Arm Warmers
Leg Warmers
Tights
Thin gloves (red)
Skull cap
Shoe covers
Neoprene gloves

1st Bike Stop
Yellow jacket
Water/Gatorade
2 Clif Blok
1 Gel

Every Bike Stop
1 water bottle
1 gatorade bottle
1 Clif Blok
1 Gel
2 Nutter Butter

Bike Just in Case Bag
Shoe covers
Skull cap
Ski gloves
Tights
Neoprene gloves
Regular Helmet
Everything from T1 Just in Case Bag
Glasses

Bike Tool Bag (in travel case)

T2
Hoka grey running shoes
Fresh socks
Short Sleeve UA Shirt
Handheld bottle
Coke
Garmin 310XT
Capri?

Each Run Stop
Full water bottle
Pretzels
Nutter Butter
Gel

Run Just in Case
Tights
LS Blue Shirt
Black running gloves
Black Windbreaker
Blueberry Clif Bar
Compression sleeves
IMLP jacket if cold or raining

Backpack
Yellow Altra trail shoes
Snotcycle hat
Black running gloves
Handwarmers
Black windbreaker
Fleece
Tights

Bladder full of water
8 cookies
2 Gus
1 Clif Blok
Banana
Blueberry Clif Bar
Chocolate Clif Bar

Headlight
Cell phone
Camera
Fresh socks

Buy in Norway
Banana
Coke
Water
Cooler

I find it extremely fascinating how differently people react to/handle warm or cold weather. Probably some of this comes down to how large/small you are, and how much heat you generate internally. Small guys generating less watts do good in heat/bad in cold, and big guys the other way around. Im sure there will be individual differences, but take IM Frankfuhrt last year with a non-wetsuit swim and pretty cold (not Norseman-cold!) weather after - alot of folks suffered in the cold and especially the smaller women really suffered.

I think everyone should make a real attempt to find out how they handle cold, because as you say getting to cold will simply end your day - period.

I'm luckily (in this respect) someone who handles cold fairly well, but I cant stand anything warmer than 15-16 C. Over 20 C and I shut down:) Imagine if I go to Kona - I'd melt just coming out of T1!:) Hopefully (for me) we'll have abit colder weather for Norseman.

I'm fine cold and dry, but once I'm wet, it's over. I did a duathlon in the rain in 59F/15C. The forecast was totally wrong, and I just had a tri jersey/shorts and light gloves. It was a hilly race. I was fine going uphill, but shaking so bad on the descents I thought I was going to crash. It's the only other race I've ever dropped out of.

Two weeks after dropping out of Norseman last year, I did Mont Tremblant to redeem myself. It was 68F/20C and raining all day. I was fine, but saw others at medical tents wrapped in mylar blankets and totally shaking.

I changed the thread title just because this has become a great thread that's about way more than my doing the race.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Here you have a video from Imingfjell. The last plateau and the first 180 degree turns down to Tessungdalen.
You can see that the road is not good here, especially around the turns. If it is raining, you better have good breaks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXSinIaDHpc

I used the Best Bike Split interface with Trainer Road to create a course simulation. I've found this to be a great way to recon a course and dial in the power targets. Rode the first 90k today at a .85IF and quickly figured out that is way to hot. Those first 45k are tough!

I should be able to share the custom workout with those Trainer Road subscribers who are part of Team Slowtwitch. Let me know if you are interested.

Scott

Here you have my GPS file from 2013.
That year it was headwind and rain resulting in slow bike times.
https://connect.garmin.com/...n/activity/357308913

The conditions can really add time to the bike leg. It will always be slow, but it can be slower.
Make sure that to take that into account on race day if you race with power.

You can find a lot of files on Strava.
This is just from the bike leg.
https://www.strava.com/...p;elev_gain_end=5000

Thanks!

I'm currently searching for a profile of the segment from 37.5k to the top. My crew would like to replicate the hike in training. Please chime in if you have input.

Scott

Here you have my GPS from the run leg
https://connect.garmin.com/...n/activity/357308965

I did ok from 37.5. Luckily after I totally turned into a zombie up Zombie Hill. From 32 - 37 I was hardly moving and according to my brother that walked with me, I was not that fun...

The trail is really rocky. I would recommend to search on Gaustatoppen both google and youtube.
It is only the fastest that run that part.

Thanks again!

Can you ID a good hike here in the PNW that would be a good Zombie Hill "simulation"?

Scott

If you have done some trail running you do not need to plan to much about the last 5k.
What is hard is that Zombie Hill add a lot of time to the run leg time.
Last year's winner just got under 4h, and he had a run time at IM France of 2.45.
What is most important is endurance and the willingness to keep eating all through the run leg.
Add some 3h easy runs and you will do fine.

If you add a lot of hills during your bike training you will benefit of that climbing Zombie Hill.

I have a friend who is quite a serious ultra runner (podium finisher at Hardrock). He's said in the past that he think it's more about net vertical in a given run than how long any one particular climb is.

I.e., if you're going out and gaining 1000m+ of vertical on your long run, I wouldn't worry too much about whether or not any single climb is all that long.

I have some pretty solid climbs near me in the Santa Monicas that I'm planning to use as recon for this race.

Guadalasca is a favorite MTB trail that I think will be excellent prep: https://www.strava.com/segments/688824

This is one of my favorite places to run.

My other favorite place is here, which is right out my front door: https://www.strava.com/activities/1035562262

In either locale, it will be very easy for me to put together a 2.5-3hr loop with 1000m+ of vertical. That's my plan for preparation. I'm not worried about doing any one long climb. But my long runs will be all about accumulating vert. Especially since downhill running is what really crushes your quads, I expect that a 1000m of up *and down* will put me in good stead.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Hey thread, any recommended hydration packs?

How big a reservoir do I need?

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Google led me to Salomon S-Lab Adv Skin 12 Vest (me) and Salomon Trail 20 Backpack (crew).

Interested to see th collective wisdom from the Tribe.

Scott

I am not sure how wise I am but I have the salomon s lab 12. I got it a few months ago because I enjoy mountain biking and am doing more trail running. I have used it on some long road runs as well. It is comfortable and easily adjustable. There is room for a one and a half litre reservoir with a hose as well as two five hundred ml soft bottles. You could stuff hard bottles in if you wanted. I

I thought I'd use it on the mountain if I make it.

There are straps all over it which bother me a bit. I hate things flopping and flapping as I run. By the time I need it at Norseman though I'm sure I won't care. I doubt I would get it specifically for thus race...but if you have other interests that would utilize it it is a nice piece of kit.

I would get the smallest, lightest pack possible - hydration pack or not - that can fit the required stuff they make you carry up the mountain (forget what they make you take, headlamp, etc). Have your crew carry a couple water/hydration bottles. It won't be a burden for them.

To me, hydration was not a worry at that point... then again, we were taking a more leisurely pace as a black shirt had long been assured at that point and I was just enjoying the hike with my wife and brother-in-law.

I've never done Norseman before, but I did that Swissman-race last year - to a large degree the same profile on the run (allthough swissman has a few more ups and downs before you reach the final ascent where you climb approx 1200m straight up to finish). Mind you I'm not one of the really fast guys - but IMO an uphill finish such as this to a marathon has less to do with running and more to do with just overall fitness and leg strength. If you took a pure cyclist and compared him to a runner/ultrarunner, I believe the cyclist would hold up far better in a steep ascent than flat or up and down running. For me - specific run-training before Norseman is primarily aimed at enabling me to go fast (or - as fast as possible, which probably will be quite slow :D) on the first 25km of the run.

This is not to say I wont do hills / climbs in my run training. Where I live I pretty much have to run straight up or straight down outside my door - example: https://www.strava.com/activities/977196146 or https://www.strava.com/activities/1016572761 (a local trail-race).

Anyway - totally agree on that you dont need to do long sustained run-climbing - just get fit (in your case stay fit) and get the leg strength (which I believe you also can get by cycling).

Wondering why you chose The Endurance formula from Orange seal? Regular formula offers better protection from punctures.

---

Jim

**Note above poster works for a retailer selling bikes and related gear*

I wasn't aware of that. Originally I chose it because there's not an easy way to test if it's dried out and I figured that it was a bit of insurance against that to have the longer lasting version. But no question I'd prefer the more effective version, even if it does dry out faster.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Nice, great minds think alike! Thanks for the feedback on the Salomon S-Lab Adv Skin 12 Vest.

Is there enough room in the vest for the essentials required at the checkpoint?

Or, would all that kit go in the support crew's backpack?

Scott

I will recommend to have the backpack packed with all the required stuff.
The headlamp can be useful in case the inside the mountain lift breaks down (it is old and has happen more than once. In 2013 we had to walk down).

Also make sure that your crew has warm cloths for you. It can be cold up there and a feather jacket is nice.
Bring food and money. You can buy Norwegian waffles in the cabin, they are great.

Makes sense, thanks.

Assume we will have all the required essentials and two backpacks; one for the athlete and one for support.

Can most of the (larger) items be carried in the support crew's pack?

Or, is the athlete required to carry their own gear?

In other words, I'd prefer to have a smaller pack with a few essentials and use my crew as the Sherpa. Is that allowed?

Scott

The athlete has to carry their essentials (minimum requirements).
So if you want more, let the crew carry those items.
I would recommend potato chips :-)
After a long day of sugar, potato chips rocks.

I did not change shoes for the last 5k.
But I did put on long pants, gloves, hat and a goretex jacket.
For me it was helpful to keep warm.


BTW
This is the view from the run course.
I took the picture last summer on my vacation to Norway.
I spent time at my brother's cabin not far from Imingfjell.

I honestly wouldn't overthink it too much. Just...be ready for anything. You really don't know what you're going to get on the mountain. Have a ton of gear ready in car... and you can have your crew prepared to bring additional stuff if needed. 2014 had variable weather throughout...but when I finished, a super fog lifted on mountain and it was relatively nice so we didn't need to carry much additionally. So it really all depends. I ended up just using a light long-sleeved running shirt and a vest (I changed into running shorts at T2 for the whole run). Honestly, at that point, nutrition and hydration didn't really matter all that much...was just laser-focused on making it up the last bit. :)

I'll do a trial pack this weekend and let you know.

Typical weather
https://nxtri.app.box.com/v/racemanual-2017

Weather, safety and support
Expected temperatures and weather conditions
Water: Expect cold waters; as low as 13C (55F) is not unusual
Air, bike leg (Hardangervidda plateau): 5–20C (41–68F)
Air, run leg (valley floor): 12–28C (54–83F)
Air, run leg Mt. Gaustatoppen: 2–12C (36–54F)

I love the cool weather. Im looking forward to it.
my luck though...it will be the hottest summer ever in Norway!

I will see you all in Eidfjord.

I am no officially a part of Jordan Rapp's support team.

Eidfjord here i come (and this time I will not turn into a zombie at Zombie Hill)

Me too with respect to how people handle the cold. I did last years race (I'm a guy, a little over 5' 8" and around 127lbs on race day) and remember going out in the ferry seeing the neoprene booties on about 90% of swimmers (not me) thinking "uh-oh, I think I may have made a mistake". And this was with 2 practice swims in the days leading up to the race. I was totally comfortable on the on the swim. I had a neoprene hoodie which was great (I used a DeSoto and it was perfect), but otherwise, like any other swim of around 4km... into a current... :)

On the bike, I won't lie, it was very cold, but part of that was being slightly under dressed but honestly, after my feet went numb, they didn't bother me for the rest of the ride either. My biggest gripe was being unable to keep my hands remotely dry. The best thing though, and Jordan has already noted this, is the aero helmet. It made my head about the only dry thing on my body but it was such a benefit to have my head in it's own little cocoon away from the elements. I would highly recommend this.

Anyway, I think you hit it bang on. Everyone needs to figure out, how you handle cold, dress appropriately and you'll be fine. I'm very slight and the cold doesn't seem to bug me too much, others I know are bothered a lot, so it's just a personal thing. Also, I think its one of those things that you can develop/improve a bit with exposure to colder situations, but of course 2 months out from the race more or less, that ship has probably sailed. :)

Best of luck to everyone going.

Thanks for chiming in! The voice of experience is valuable.

Could you use hindsight describe your ideal kit for the conditions you experienced?

Scott

If you want to know the temprature along the course use yr.no
Here you have Gaustatoppen https://www.yr.no/...atoppen_turisthytte/

I will recommend that the support crew has the app on their phone. Then they can follow the weather and plan.

I talked with my brother today. He has a cabin in Tessungdalen, just down from Imingfjell and take a right, not a left as you will do in the race.
The road is a lot better from the store in Tessungdalen to T2. This mean it will be a lot faster for the athlete, and even harder for the crew to get to T2 and be ready.
This road is not wide.

The downhill from Imingjell to Tessungdalen is not good, full of potholes. If you have a chance make sure you scout it out.

Jordan, it is great to see that you are racing this year. You should also know that your son's namesake will be wearing bib 271.
This is a great thread, very useful.

No problems getting a windbreaker, headlamp, some food and drink and even a tightly packed puffy jacket in the salomon 12 litre vest. a warm hat can go on your head or can be packed in there as well. i see no reason tho have a 1.5 litre bladder or more than 500ml of water so there is lots of room available.

Hey Dan (and thread),

Talk to me about these tunnels on the bike course. Are we talking pitch black with hazards?

On a related note, can you recommend a headlight? I have a Serfas Thunderbolt (60 lumens) on the tri-bike and a NiteRider 650 on the commuter. Ideally, I'd like to find something in between to meet the race spec of 100 lumens. Recommendations?

Alternatively, I'm considering a second Thunderbolt to bump up to 120 lumens. Adequate?

Scott

The tunnels do have lighting, but they are still quite dim.

The road surface on the whole is very good, but yes there are a few potholes on this climb (although I'd be surprised if you will be going fast enough to not be able to avoid them!)

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Race Calendar 2017:
5th August - Norseman

You do not need the lights for the tunnels. More to stay safe on the road.
You will be biking on public roads so make sure you are visible.

Having a good front light can help all the support cars to see you more easily when they are entering the road after a pit stop.

I have this. Very reliable. I have a rear strobe as well. On daylight flashing it lasts for 20 hours. When the battery is running low it goes to a simple flashing pattern.

https://www.trekbikes.com/...r-ion-800-r/p/14302/

One thing yet to be discussed here - what sort of gearing are you people going for? I guess Jordan wont be bringing a 1x, but I don't think I'll choose my gearing based on someone planning to do the ride closer to 300w than 200w avg.

I'm probably stuck with my 39/28 as easiest gear, which will maybe leave me a bit undergeared on the steepest sections. What are others going for?

I raced with a compact crank and with a 11-28 in back. I am glad I did. I could spin up the hills easily if needed and keep my HR down.
On race day I was 6.2 and 185 pounds.

Same as you. Compact with 11/28.

Hey Jordan....Hey Thread,

How is the plan for 8.5 coming together?

Scott

And by compact i guess you mean a 50/34 up front right? So that your easiest gear was 34/28?

I've been thinking of switching to a 52/36 up front, to get down to a 36/28-combo, but just can't seem to justify the $$ it'lll cost me :) Hoping I'll be fine with a 39/28 - easiest - I'm around 170 lbs, so a little lighter - hoping I can spinn up the hills ok @ around 3 - 3.5 w/kg!

Anyone else riding a normal crankset up front? (53/39?)

I ran compact and 11-28 as well. Spun out the 50/11 on some downhills but really needed the 34/28 on some of the steeper sections, especially part of the old road after 10-15k and up Imingfjell (which is not as bad as every says it is)

53-39 and 12-30 for me.

John

I am not a mountain goat so I needed easy gearing.
I got passed a lot uphill but did OK on the flats and downhill.
But we all are different and we all like different equipment.
The hills are not really steep, mostly long.
Imingfjell is hard since it is at the end of the race, not because it is steep. Also after you think you have reached the top of the hill, you have a false flat that can be exposed to head wind.

Hopefully it will be sunny and tail wind this year :-)

I am looking forward to be support and not racing (I am in horrible shape).

I hope everybody is getting ready for Norway and Norseman.

As a member of a support crew this year I will be able to remember Zombie Hill.

The week before the race I will spend time at the last 90k of the bike leg and at the run course.

If any of you do not have a chance to drive the course before the race, please do not hesitate to contact me.
You can either use the forum, or PM.

I will be at the social swim Friday and can talk to you and your support crew.

Things I will take a note of are:
road conditions
road work
potholes down from Imingfjell
parking on the runs course
stores along the bike and running leg.

Good luck everybody and see you in Eidfjord and on Gaustatoppen

Hi Halvard! Great to meet you last week.

Hey Thread - I'm lucky to have Halvard here in my hometown of Seattle. He was kind enough to sit down with me and my Crew Chief last week to review our plan for Norseman. As a Norwegian, Black T-Shirt owner and overall good guy, he is a great resource for us.

I look forward to seeing you all in Eidfjord!

Scott

Racing with a 1x, mostly because I have a 130BCD and can't really afford to switch to a 110BCD.

Doing 48 front and 11-40 rear. This should be right on par with 34/28. I'll be spinning a bit on the downhills but that's the price to pay!

Any advice on reflective jacket? My thermal kit has reflective stripes (actually the whole back is reflective) but since it's black I feel like the 'marshalls' in T1 won't let that fly...

Looking forward to meeting y'all in Eidfjord and I'll definitely hit you up Halvard when I'm driving up!

Anyone arriving in Oslo on Friday the 4th? My support crew is and I'd like to avoid renting two cars...

Cheers!

@Rappstar:

I rode Norseman last year with Enve 4.5's (chosen over my 808's for weight) and Turbo Cotton's with latex tubes and NoStan's in it. I did not flat ;) You could consider running the 26mm TC in the back for comfort and further reduce the flat-risk. There are a few sections where the tarmac isn't butter-smooth and it will pay dividends there.

If you've got the option for the disc-454's (I did not yet have the chance to ride them), I'd chose those. The aero of the 808 and the weight of the 404's with perfect all-weather braking (copy from marketing this). If can't think of a better race to use them then Norseman.

Bike-wise; I used my S-Works Venge over my P5, but if I'll ever go back (it will remain on my bucket-list even if I've already raced it, it is that much fun..) I'd use my tri-bike. The gearing I used was O-Symmetric 52-38 and 11-32 on SRAM eTap.

Have a LOT of fun, and yes, there is and end to Zombie Hill. It's just a long uphill run ;)

S.

I'm still trying to decide on front wheel: Carbon with less braking power or aluminum with confident braking. Thoughts?

If you can, bring both and when you have seen the course you pick the pair you are most comfortable with.
I will also recommend to download the Norwegian weather app yr.no and put it on your phone.
Then you can see the changes over the course.

Less than two weeks left :-)

I've been quickly going through this thread so this is just some general observations, not to anyone in particular:

1. Have enough food/fuel on your bike to last 1.5-2 hours for the first part of the bike. Cars can get really backed up and I didn't see my support crew until 1:45 after I started biking. I was going to go with 2 bottles but at the start added a 3rd bottle "just in case". I had just drained all 3 when my support car finally caught up. Traffic in the tunnels at the start can really jam up. After that point the crew found me every 30 - 40 minutes and it was perfect. For the run it was every 2 miles.
   
2. Weather can change rapidly. I like biking in the cold. Yet it got down to 34 degrees F and raining. I had to stop 2x to change for more/better/warmer gear. Go out and get the gear as a precaution to put in the car.
3. As weather can change rapidly, I found that a well-braking bike was more important than "absolutely-aero" bike/wheels. I lost more time on wet descents having to scrub speed well in advance of curves, which costs time on downhills. Go out and ride in the rain in some mountains somewhere. If you cannot brake on your expected rims RIGHT NOW, get a good pair in advance. The (whatever) 5-minutes aero advantage wheelset I did use probably costed me 10-15 minutes worth of dumb, slow descending.
4. Gearing: I'm a good biker. I still had a 52/36 and an 11-32 cassette. Darn good investment. On good rims (disc brakes or aluminum rim brakes). It's 12K of climbing so don't burn matches early.
5. Don't get too hung up on the gear for the last 10 miles of the run. Most of you will be walking anyway, get a nice backpack with the stuff in it and a hydration pack or bottle holder. That's good enough for the warm clothes you'll really want. If you are not in the top 10, and are trying to get in the top 160, you're probably walking after the mile 21 checkpoint anyway. Might as well be warm and comfy.
   

x100

Bring appropriate gear for cold rain, and don't be afraid to use it early. I dropped out last year that, in retrospect, was caused by stupid stubbornness. I was wearing a base layer, jersey, and "waterproof" Castelli Gabba jersey on the initial climb with shorts, leg warmers, shoe covers, lobster gloves, and hand heat packs. I also had a warm aero helmet. In the car, I had my ski jacket shell "just in case" and neoprene scuba gloves. As the rain started, I said "I'm still OK--no need to put on the un-aero waterproof jacket." But I also stopped eating because my hands were cold and it was too hard to take gloves on and off. By the time I realized that I needed to reset, stop, eat, and put on the warmest, most waterproof clothes I had, it was too late. I was so cold and soaked that I couldn't warm up and my day was done.

I'm not sure if it was cockiness wanting the black t-shirt instead of white or just an unwillingness to suffer, but I dropped out at mile 45 of the bike. Don't be me. Stay warm and dry and keep ahead of your nutrition. You may think you really want black and won't be satisfied with white, but I'd love to have a white finisher t-shirt right now.

Good luck.

Thanks KCB203 for the frankness and great advice.

Hey Jordan!

How is the recon going? What can you share with us about your initial impressions?

Scott

We had a little dip this afternoon, much to the bemusement of the Japanese tourists here. Simply stunning surroundings. Water temp not that bad, I'd guess around 13/14°c with some colder pockets.
In support mode for our mate, but definitely using it as recon 😉

Here is my race report from my way to 4'th place on Saturday (with a lot of pictures).
It's in norwegian but I hope google translate can de a decent translation for you :-)

https://www.oslosportslager.no/...en-tung-dag-397.aspx

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Instagram and Strava: @lpstormo

Congrats on your race and strong finish.

Question for anyone in the know - How many people are allowed to accompany you up the mountain? If they can't go up with you is there a way for them to meet at the top to celebrate?

I would probably have 3 people travel with me.

Thanks.

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Brian

You have 1 designated support crew member, but any number can run from 25k - think the winner this year had 5 or so runners with him for the last 10k, although they can't pace you. You also need to carry your own bag (containing phone, warm clothes, hat etc) from 37k.

They then have 2 options - walk down, or pay 250kr for the cable car. Athletes go down free

Thanks for the race report. Great pics! Congratulations on an incredible performance. I came home with a white shirt and a resolve that the black shirt represents the best of our sport.

I'm reflecting on my own race and processing the details that make Norseman so unique. Resliance to cold being at the top of the list. Based on your pictures, you raced in far less clothing than me. And I was cold!

I was in trouble early, when both legs totally seized up with cramps late in the swim. Frustrating as I was otherwise having a great swim comfortably in the FOP draft. Probably lost 10 minutes between three cramping sessions and dropping the pace. That set up a miserably slow T1 and the legs just never felt good again. Looking back, I feel like I lost the black course right there. I was cold and wrecked coming out of the water.

Can you comment on your kit selection? Were you cold? Do you train regularly in those conditions? Do you have any advice on acclimating to perform while cold?

Scott

Yes, the cold conditions is definitely on of the main factors why Norseman is so hard. I also got some cramps in my hamstrings when we got in to the cold water the last 1000m of the swim, but it did not slow me down. I also get som cramps in T1 every year.

I never wear anything around my knees when I'm racing. I feel like it slows me down and being cold on the skin does not botter me.
The neopren caps on the shoes helps a lot and I don't need more then that to keep the feet warm. And taking on bigger/warmer shoe covers in T1 takes to much time.
I have my tri-suit under the wet suit on the swim and just take on a reflective wind west. In Norseman we go directly into a big climb and it's pretty easy to get warm up there. I have long gloves in the pocket on the west that I put on during the start of the bike. I don't think it's a problem starting yhe bike leg with a wet tri-suit as it will get wet pretty fast anyway.
Because of the rain on Hardangervidda I put on a thin rain jacket here (if no rain I keep raising in a tri-suit or maby a wind west). As long as I keep working hard on the bike I don't get very cold as long as I have something wind proof on. Of course I was a bit cold sometimes over Hardangervidda, but as soon as we get to Geilo and start climbing I get warm again.

I never train in cold coonditions like this. That's no fun! :-) I think it's more about preparing mantaly that it will get cold and you will feel like crap sometimes, but it will pass and feel better ones getting in to the climbs.

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Instagram and Strava: @lpstormo

Thank you for your insights, particularly the point about the cold water in the last 1000m. That temperature change hit me like a brick and triggered my cramps. I feel better knowing you were also affected!

I just need the good fortune of another opportunity to adapt and overcome the cold!

Scott

I have the good fortune of living in Toronto and having Lake Ontario at my front door. In addition, I had a coach who wanted me immersed in cold water as a key part of the training sessions. Consequently, I was very prepared for the swim, having done about 10 open water swims in waters as cold as 8 degrees, averaged about 13 degrees, all giving my the psychological advantage that the fjord was not something to fear. The last km in the swim was certainly colder, which makes transition important for me as I do feel the cold. We had planned for transition to occur in 2 stages to get me as warm as possible quickly. Stage 1, take off the top of the wetsuit, put on a cycling jersey over my trisuit, add a windvest, rain jacket if it was raining (it was), reflective vest and then bubble down jacket (I would take this off prior to exit). I would then drink 300ml of warm nutrition (we had in the thermos), while my wife removed the bottom of the wetsuit, added knee warmers, (I wore compression sleeves on my legs giving me full leg coverage), put on socks, shoes (they had toe warmers already on) then added waterproof cycling booties. Finally, on my hands had neoprene gloves - keeping the hands warm.
Clearly this was not a record setting transition time (14 mins) but I was on the bike feeling comfortable and never in trouble. I did make a couple of further changes on the bike as the conditions changed.
All this means that I wasn't going to have a record setting bike effort, but my focus was getting to 32.5 eligible for the black tshirt. Mission accomplished.

I was there on Saturday. Fantastic race. Even though the swim is not my favourite part I think swimming in Eidfjord was almost the best thing of the day. I almost felt too warm under my neoprene cap. In T1 I put on too much stuff, so I was sweating like crazy the first 35k. Riding Hardangervidda was just epic. Unfortunately I couldn't enjoy the rest of the bike part, because my back tightend up again, so every pedalstroke uphill was really painful. The run course was great too. I think if you know that you will get a black shirt, the race is "easy". I'm happy that I did not race against the clock and soaked everything in. From Zombie Hill I went with my girlfriend, who was also my support, up to the top. Hopefully I can return soon to see how was fast I can go up.

Sorry for such a trivial question, but who makes the reflective vest you wore?

Scott

I use a Swix reflective west (originally made for roller skiing). It's tight, has a windproof front and a small pocket on the back).

This one:
https://www.oslosportslager.no/...ningsvest-34111.aspx

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Instagram and Strava: @lpstormo

I was cold for sure and cramped on occasion. I needed help to get out of the water. I could always work through it though fortunately. On the bike I was in tears at one point I was so cold and wet. I was able to put on a waterproof windproof run jacket though and was able to go comfortably again.
The run was fine.

I nearly lost it on the mountain. I was bonking and did not have any food that I could get down. I slogged my way up though....I got passed by about 50 people after the start of zombie hill. Fortunately I had done well to that point and was not in jeprody of loosing the black shirt.

What a great experience. I find it hard to get motivated again for 'normal'.

The top of the mountain was an interesting experience. No Norwegian guy yelling ' you are an ironman'...no fanfare at all. Just done. Take your chip and give you some soup ( which made me puke). I liked it like that.

Funny.....I had the urge to cry as well. Good to know the conditions affected others. Hopefully more chime in with race reports so we can all relive the day.

The day was just so ridiculously relentless from beginning to end. Yet I am strangely obsessed with the thought of going back. I've replayed the day over and over, noting tactics for improving my training and execution on race day. The black shirt may be my sole remaining objective in triathlon. At the same time, I am at peace knowing I had the privilege to experience Norseman. These are unusual emotions to process.

Congratulations on the black shirt! I see you came out of the water just behind me, left T1 12' in front of me and added another 30' through T2. What was your run split to 25k?

Scott
#117

Hey rhayden,

I've assembled a Race Report in an attempt to create some closure. You'll see I share your sentiment about motivation for anything normal.

Hoping others do the same so we can share our stories.

Heia Heia,

Scott